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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Boko Haram Actions in Nigeria Detailed; Examining the Recruitment of Children for Terror Attacks

Aired January 15, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: As Boko Haram's leader praises the terror attack in France there is a jaw-dropping view of its most destructive attack yet. The Boko Haram attack happened nearly two weeks ago in the Northern Nigeria town of Baga or Baga and the surrounding villages. But we are only now just starting to get a picture of the devastation.

This is a satellite picture from Amnesty International. It was released today, but it was taken on January 2nd. And in it you can see the homes and the businesses and just to make this clearer the photos have actually been processed. So as you look at this, these are the before pictures. And the red areas indicate normal and healthy vegetation. But if you look at the after picture it is quite alarming, look at the difference. That was taken January 7th and you can see the village of Doron Baga was nearly wiped off the map completely.

Keep in mind some people did get away in this attack. Others took refuge in their homes. But they were burned to death inside those homes. Local officials are reporting death tolls that ranged from the hundreds to as many as 2,000. And now look at the images side by side. Amnesty International says this resulted in more than 3,700 structures being damaged or destroyed.

Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson joins me now live from Northern Nigeria and CNN is the only network live in this area. And our Terrorism Expert Brian Jenkins is back with us as well.

So Nic perhaps you could just update us on what exactly is happening and why it's so difficult to get an accurate count of exactly how many people died in this.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure, we got 20,000 to 30,000 people were forced to flee in that area. And because they've left there is somebody (inaudible) there who can independently verify OK who died, who was killed are they all have been count because people have scattered over a wide area. But also the fact that the main army military outpost there was overrun, there's many of the soldiers killed.

Many of the others fled. So there's no sort of government authority there are to again make that kind of assessment. And it's remote and it's sort of in the one of the heartless too places in the country. I mean, not just a long way away but the roads begin to break down out there as well. So that's (inaudible) to get that information.

But we've been talking to soldiers here who are in the fight against Boko Haram, normally you would expect an army come back again and retake that land, but the soldiers we are talking to, morale is low. They say that the weapons they're giving to fight them (inaudible) bodies turned to weapons (ph) and they don't have enough bullets. Boko Haram came into town that day with big anti-aircraft guns, a range of three quarters of a mile.

So the soldiers beaten back. They even, they tell us, forced to buy their own uniforms.

BANFIELD: So, if I can, I want to just play this interview that was given by the archbishop in the area and he was reacting to what he saw in Paris and what he's seeing at home. Let's have a listen.

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IGNATIUS KAIGAMA, ARCHBISHOP OF JOS, NIGERIA: I liked it when I saw the huge numbers gathered in Paris and then they lit a stage from different nations on coming together for a common cause. Why can't we share the same sympathy, solidarity, concern?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That is -- It's the kind of thing that so many people ask when they hear about this kind of a potential death toll almost as high as 2,000.

Nic what about the galvanizing of that country, especially the government? And can it do anything more to try to stench the flow of the terror that Boko Haram was unleashing?

ROBERTSON: Sure. Well, these soldiers we're talking to tell us give them the right weapons and they can do the (inaudible). We saw today was President Goodluck Jonathan going to (inaudible) the towns where many of the people fled that area where his army remembered to stay today.

He spent time with the troops and he promised them that they would get what they need, I think for a lot of people here at the moment feel that that is the kind of a hallow promise and they really like to see him make good on that.

But that's (inaudible) the difference between success and failure here. It is the army being able to step up and do the job that they should be doing. But without the backing of the government which they really feel they don't have at the moment, they can't actually (inaudible).

BANFIELD: Unbelievable. And I apologize for our connections to you Nic, it's been hard to make out everything you said, but I think we get the gist of it.

And Brian Jenkins if you can fill in some of the gaps and that is this, what we're hearing from Boko Haram, it eclipses some of the worst terror attacks that we've heard all around the world in terms of shear volume and numbers and the kidnapping of hundreds of girls at a time, the murder of hundreds of people at a time over and over again.

Exactly, what is the effect of Boko Haram and its terrorist activity on other terrorist groups and is there much of a connection or a potential for emerging of these murderous forces?

BRIAN JENKINS, TERRORISM EXPERT: Well, Boko Haram like a number of the conflicts in the region is primarily a -- has deep local roots as this reflects a divide in Nigeria between a Christian south and a Muslim North.

It also reflects the problems that although Nigeria has Africa's largest population and biggest economy. It also has the poorest population. So the money that's coming into the country is not making it down to the people and that fuels this local conflicts.

The concern that we have is that while these conflicts begin as local conflicts, they allow groups like Al-Qaeda to get a foothold and to begin to radicalize these groups even more. Boko Haram has itself declared an Islamic caliphate. Boko Haram wants to not only take over Northern Nigeria, but its ambitions transcend the Nigerian borders to encompass some of the territory of the neighboring African countries in recreating what was once a much greater Muslim empire in that part of Africa.

And of course the greatest concern is that ultimately that part of Nigeria like Syria, like Iraq, like Afghanistan will become a launching pad for terrorist operations against the West.

BANFIELD: It's never good news, but it's good to be certainly in the know. Brian Jenkins, thank you for your insight. And Nic Robertson, great reporting in Northern Nigeria, thank you as well.

The weak, the young, the vulnerable, how ISIS and other terror groups are raising a new generation of murderers, executioners, and terrorists.

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BANFIELD: ISIS is known for its terrific tactics but the group may have just outdone itself this time. In the militant group's latest piece of propaganda they actually brag about having a child carry out a double execution of two prisoners.

CNN's Michael Holmes reports on these heinous, new declaration and a word of warning, some of the images that you're about to see may certainly be distributing.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A horrific new tactic from ISIS raising a new generation of terrorists. A video released this week from the terror group purports to show a young boy executing two hostages accused of being Russian spies. In the video a young boy, about ten years old with long hair dressed in a black sweater and military fatigues, stands before the hostages armed with a handgun. While a bearded ISIS fighter stands next to the boy reciting religious verses.

CNN cannot verify the authenticity of the video, but the boy pulls the trigger and appears to shoot both men once in the head, then fires several more times as the hostages slump to the ground.

Like previous ISIS execution videos showing the beheading of western hostages, this one is carefully edited and choreographed with slick production. So it is unclear if the boy did in fact kill the hostages, but the message from ISIS is clear they are turning children into killers.

DANIEL BYMAN, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Unfortunately they are -- there is a use of children for atrocities in many conflicts. We've seen this in Africa and we've seen it before in Syria. The difference here is they're bragging about it. They are trying to exalt in this and it's disturbing.

HOLMES: This video appears to be the first time ISIS has portrayed a child carrying out an execution, but the terror group has exploited children in previous videos. They call them the "cubs of the caliphate" they're often shown training to fight, learning in ISIS-run schools and training with automatic weapons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

HOLMES: This particular boy has appeared in earlier ISIS videos. He says his name is Abdullah that he's from Kazakhstan and that he wants to grow up to kill infidels. This isn't the first time ISIS has used shocking images of children online.

A young Australian boy holds a severed head in a photo posted last August by the child's father, an extremist who took his children to Syria to join the fight with ISIS.

Just this week, a Chicago teen pleaded not guilty to charges he planned to join ISIS fighters in Syria. His mother issuing an emotional plea to the terror group.

ZARINE KHAN, MOTHER OF ISIS RECRUIT: We have a message for ISIS, Mr. Baghdadi and his fellow social media recruiters. Leave our children alone.

HOLMES: Children used as pawns in a propaganda war in a global jihad. Exploited, their innocence lost, what happens to these children as they grow up? What kind of adults will these terrorists send into the world?

Michael Holmes, CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Joining me now to talk about how ISIS finds and trains this child terrorist is former jihadist Mubin Shaikh who also has turned counter terror operative as well.

So, Mubin let's just start with the mining of these children. Are they in fact the children of the soldiers themselves or are they captured, or they, you know, are they orphans of those they've killed? How do they find these children to start with?

MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Well, I mean, they'll use their own children and they'll use children that have been captured. I've seen screen grabs of Kurdish children who were captured especially from the Yazidis were taken as slaves and captives. Some of their children were brought into this.

But again, you know, this is -- the use of child -- children in war is not the first time we've seen that and especially with ISIS has used children before. They've appeared in other videos. I've seen at least one video where a child is basically finishing off the beheading of an individual. They're used as informants, as spies. Because the main thing is this, if you do go and invade them, which of your forces are going to open fire on a child, who may well be downrange firing back at you.

BANFIELD: And what's the answer to that in terms of strategizing against an army that is going to employ children and it's not the first time we've seen it. We've seen it in many African countries that have stolen children and raised small armies with the children at the other side of the barrel of a gun. What's the strategy?

SHAIKH: Well, that's going to be a policy issue that's governments are going to have to deal with but, I mean, the simple fact as if you are in the war zone and somebody is firing at you, you fire back. And you may probably learn later on that this was a child which -- which is going to take a considerable toll (ph) on a person's psyche and on their soul.

So, this is something that's going to have to be dealt with, if not in the policy world, then definitely on the battle field.

BANFIELD: It certainly does point to a new level of unbearable assault and morality. Mubin, thank you. Nice to see you as always. Back right after this break.

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BANFIELD: Our Breaking News, amidst all of the investigation in Europe about the terror attacks in France, there is news now breaking in Belgium that a terror operation has actually yielded several deaths among terrorists. The details are very thin at this time but it happened in a placed called Verviers in Belgium, and we go now to our national security correspondent Jim Sciutto who is live with one some more details from Paris. Jim what are you learning about this operation?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ashleigh. This is a place in Verviers, it's in Eastern Belgium, about 250 miles from here in Paris. We're learning from our CNN affiliate on the ground there, VTM News, that Belgian police are confirming an anti-terrorism operation took place.

During this anti-terrorism operation, three suspected terrorists killed and at least one taken into custody, this happening just in the last hour or so. Apparently, this was near a train station. The operation attempting to take them into custody, that's when a gun battle broke out and to this point, Belgian police saying the casualties limited to the side of the terrorist. That is the word that Belgian police, Belgian federal police are using. Anti-terror operation, that several terrorist were killed and that at least one taken into custody.

So it shows you, Ashleigh, just the level of concern right now in Europe. Remember, the shooting that took place here in Paris at Charlie Hebdo, just behind me, already ties, leads -- leading outside of France. In fact, earlier today, an arms dealer tied to Amedy Coulibaly who carried out the attack on the kosher market, was found and arrested in Belgium, right across the boarder from France. A number of other ties as well to Spain, Bulgaria, and of course on to Turkey and into Syria and Yemen, and international web and now today, you have Belgium police with this anti-terror operation.

They are not to be clear saying that this is tied in any way to the attacks here in Paris, but it does show the level of concern and alert that anti-terror police in Europe are at right now.

BANFIELD: So the arrest that you just mentioned, is there anything more we know about that arrest and I know you're saying it's not necessarily tied to Paris, but is it possible that the investigative process that has been -- that has maybe perhaps yielded information that lead them to what just happened in Beligium?

SCIUTTO: Well, we have no -- the Belgian police are not describing any ties to the attacks here in Paris at this point but they are calling the suspects in this attack terrorist. They're calling this an anti-terror operation. They're saying that three terrorists were killed and that one terrorist was taken into custody. So from the Belgian federal police's perspective, they believe that this people were tied to terrorism, they have not made any statement tying this anti-terror operation or the suspects to the attacks that took place here in France.

BANFIELD: So, Jim, I'm sure it's very early in the investigation. I don't know that anyone will know the answer to this but I think it begs asking, the fact that this operation went down near to the trains station in Verviers, is it suspected that there was going to be an operation carried out at the train station? A terrorist operation? Or is this perhaps another side of it that the people the arrested or the one that they arrested, the others who died, were perhaps trying to get on that train to escape arrest?

SCIUTTO: No information at this point as to why it was at the train station. Again, the police saying that this was initiated by a counter terror operations so the police were there for a reason, possibly, simply to take these men into custody based on intelligence they have. They are not connecting it to an operation at that train station. And they haven't specified whether they were heading to the train station to get away. Just that this was a counter terror operation, that there are casualties, dead among the terrorists, but also that at least one terrorist is been taken into custody. So that give's the possibility of a further investigation here.

BANFIELD: And let's hope that arrest yield some further information. Our Jim Sciutto doing the job for us live. Thank you for that especially so quickly getting us that information live in Paris.

And if you're joining us, an operation in Paris, several terrorists' dead, one arrested. A lot more detail still to come on that. CNN, watching this for you throughout the day, more on the next hour.

My colleague Wolf takes over after this quick break.

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