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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Anti-Terrorism Police Sweep Through Belgium; Additional Arrests Made in France; Obama-Cameron News Conference Today

Aired January 16, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Thanks so much for joining us on LEGAL VIEW.

Before we get started, a quick note to tell you about. The president at any moment is going to be speaking. Just in the next few moments, in fact. He's hosting the British prime minister, David Cameron, today. And so just before we get to that, you should also note that the British prime minister tweeted that he and the president will make what he calls, quote, "some important announcements" about national security and cyber security after their meeting in the Oval Office.

We got these images a little bit earlier. But we're going to take their live news conference the moment they emerge and appear. Like I said, live comments coming. Some big news that they're going to actually release.

In the meantime, some very big news that I want to tell you about as well. Officials in Belgium jumping to head off terror attacks that they fear could happen any time. Anti-terrorism police sweeping through that country overnight and raiding places where they believe terrorist cells were putting plans into action. Two suspects were killed in a firefight. The terror threat is also widening in France and in Germany and in Holland. An intelligence source telling CNN that perhaps 20 so-called terror cells may be going operational and ready to do something. The something part is the big unknown. And it certainly has a lot of people concerned.

And this really shook up France earlier today, especially given the violent attacks of last week. A man with a gun took hostages inside a post office near Paris. Eventually the man gave up and let everyone go. And this is a relief to tell you about, no one in this instance was hurt.

So we've got this covered for you. We are in Paris and in Brussels. And we've got our terrorism expert and former CIA operative ready to go. I'm going to get to everyone. And, of course, when the president and Prime Minister David Cameron come to the microphones, we're going to take you into that live just as soon as it happens as well.

First to Frederik Pleitgen in Brussels. The national security alert is up there. Belgian troops on standby. Police finding guns and bombs and, maybe what's most concerning, police uniforms in the place they raided. But what else have the police been able to find out about the terror cell they believe that they were able to break? FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they

say they broke a terror cell, Ashleigh, that was consisting mostly of people who came back from Syria. Belgium is, of course, the country with the most people per capita in Europe who actually go to places like Syria to wage jihad there, especially for organizations like ISIS.

Now, just in the past couple of minutes, we've learned that there have been two additional arrests made. These were made in France, but they are in connection with the plot that apparently was imminent here in Belgium. These were two individuals who were trying to get from France to Italy. They were apprehended there. And Belgium is now seeking their extradition.

That's important because these people apparently were tied to the raids that happened here yesterday. The most violent of which was the one that happened in Verviers, where those two people were shot. And, of course, the police are absolutely on guard right now after they discovered those weapons and, as you said, those police uniforms. They believe that the goal of this plot was to kill as many police officers as possible, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I want to just skip over to Paris if I may. That's where our Pamela Brown is standing by live as well.

Pamela, just to remind everyone of the circumstance we're in, the investigation is still very, very deep into the instances in last week's attacks at the magazine and then at the kosher store and then also the police brigade that was -- or at least the traffic stop where the policewoman was killed. And now we're learning 12 more people arrested overnight there connected to those attacks. What are we finding out, not only about those people, but about what connection they had to what's happened and what might happen in the future?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ashleigh. I think this goes to show how active this investigation still is. We learned overnight that 12 people were arrested in connection to Amedy Coulibaly, who, of course, was the suspect in the Paris attacks here last week. Now, the prosecutor will only say that they were arrested for providing logistical support. The prosecutor's office would not elaborate on that. So we don't know if they provided logistical support before, during or after the attacks. But we're told that the 12 were in Coulibaly's entourage. There were eight men and four women. Beyond that, the prosecutor's office is staying tight-lipped about what their alleged involvement was with the attacks here last week.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Pamela Brown live for us in Paris. And our thanks not only to you but to Fred Pleitgen, who is in Brussels for us.

And here with me now live is Paul Cruickshank, our terrorism analyst, and also Mike Baker, who's a former CIA covert operations officer.

So I want to ask the two of you a couple of critical questions about what we're seeing happening, not only this week, but coupled with what's happening last week, and then this concern that there are these terror cells that may or may not be burgeoning and may not be out there.

And I think the first question, I'm going to give it to you, Mike, if you could. The notions that all of the eyes of the investigators around Europe at this point are keenly focused on any kind of intelligence they may have already been working on and any intelligence that's coming in the door now, does that suggest that any cells that might be in existence with a future plan, either in the near future or far future, maybe force -- their hands may be forced and that's why this is all sort of coming out now? It's either do it now or find yourselves broken and in jail before you get a chance?

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPERATIONS OFFICER: Well, I mean, certainly, there may be that element to it where, you know, at the end of the day, they've all been giving the green light in a sense. The individuals who have been traveling back and forth between Syria and Iraq and their adopted country and those that haven't had the chance to travel but are just motivated by the drive from ISIS and al Qaeda elements. So, yes, they'll look at what happened in Paris, and now they look at the raids in Belgium, and that may spur them to act quicker. At the end of the day, does that mean that they'll have a less successful potential operation? Well, yes, these things follow certain patterns.

So as with Paris, they had to do the surveillance. There was some planning that went into this. It wasn't necessarily Lex Luther-type operation, but it was - it was sufficient, it was enough to get the job done from the terrorist perspective.

But the interesting thing is, is that, you know, we have an attack like this in Paris and the tendency is to think, well, how did we miss this? Well, at the end of the day, we get more than we miss. Far more than we miss. And there's a great deal of work and information sharing that's going on, on the continent, and with the U.K. and certainly with us and the Canadians and others. And that's all behind the scenes. It's off the radar screen and we don't see it. But we tend to see an attack and then we think, well, we've got to get in the game, we've got to do something. Well, we are doing a great deal and, you know, the Belgian raids are an example of that.

BANFIELD: So this idea that we get more than we miss, Mike, it's a great point that you make. I want to bring you in on that, Paul, as well. A lot of times there is this concerned about how beleaguered the world is about what social media's ben able to do in the recruitment of additional jihadists. But isn't it also just the perfect trail of breadcrumbs to break groups, to find where they are? Their digital footprint is stupidly leading people right to them and to their friends.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, they have broken up quite a few lone wolf plots because of this social media footprint and the people just sort of post all kinds of stuff on social media. There's a lot of amateurishness in these plots. I think the plot in Ohio the other day, this was a kind of wannabe who trusted this confidential informant. But there's also concern about a rather more serious terror cells who are believed to be recruiting -- being recruited in Syria and Iraq, notably the Khorasan Group, which is this al Qaeda a-team. And they're trying to recruit a large number of Europeans (INAUDIBLE) into terrorist plots, not only against Europe, but also against western aviation.

There's also concern about these ISIS fighters, many of whom are Europeans, about 1,000 Europeans in ISIS. These are trained killers. When we see the videos every week of them executing people, of urban warfare, handling Kalashnikovs and explosives and now were seeing them come back to Europe and they were just hours away from launching a plot in Belgium, possibly against police officers and police stations. They found police uniforms in this place that they conducted the raid in Verviers, suggesting that could have been the target. That's kind of some sophistication there. Also walkie-talkies, things that like, which could kind of help them launch an attack, explosives, heavy weapons. This is quite disturbing and a completely different thing to these lone wolf cases we've been seeing in recent months.

BANFIELD: Well, and as we've just seen overnight, 12 raids across Brussels, another 12 arrests in France overnight. So, obviously, there is action fast and furious on the part of the authorities to try to get at least ahead or ahead as can be with these possible terror threats that are still lurking out there.

Mike Baker, thank you so much. Paul Cruickshank, thank you as well for your expertise.

CNN has teams right across the world, in fact, that are continuing to work this story and bring you updates just as soon as they come into us.

We're also watching the live events. So in just a few moments, President Obama and the British prime minister, David Cameron, planning to address this growing terror concern in Europe and the United States and beyond. And we've got special coverage coming your way with my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, and it gets underway right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm wolf Blitzer in Washington.

At any moment now, President Obama and the visiting British prime minister, David Cameron, will hold a joint news conference. The prime minister is promising what he calls some important announcements after his private meetings in the Oval Office over at the White House. Their agenda, they say it's three-pronged, standing up to Russian aggression against Ukraine and, in the wake of the terror attacks in Paris, defending freedom, they say, and confronting terrorists around the world. They're also focusing in on promoting economic growth on both sides of the Atlantic.

Here with us - here in Washington, our chief Washington correspondent, Jake Tapper, he's the anchor of "The Lead," our chief political analyst Gloria Borger, our chief national correspondent John King, our CNN national security commentator Mike Rogers, the former Republican congressman from Michigan, and he's the former chair of the House Intelligence Committee. Also standing by with us, our senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. He's over at the East Room of the White House. CNN's Hala Gorani, she's in Paris. And our CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, who's joining us from New York.

Jake, we're just getting word that the prime minister and the president, they'll have opening statements and they're going to make some announcements.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: They'll be talking specifically about cyber security, some joint cooperative efforts, including new cyber cells so the British and the Americans can better share information, so as to prevent the kind of hack that we saw earlier this year with the Sony hack. But I suspect a lot of the topics of the questions that reporters are going to have will be about the terrorist attack in France last week, in addition to the terror raid in Belgium. There has been an increased security presence in the United States, especially at airports. So I suspect a lot of the conversation that we're going to hear will be about fighting terrorism, not cyber terrorism as much as the president and the prime minister likely want to talk about, but fighting the terrorist attempts to hit here and in the west as well.

BLITZER: And this sweep of suspected terrorists in Europe, it seems to be expanding right now. I'm sure you're right, this will be the focus of the Q&A.

Let's go to the White House. Jim Acosta is our chief White House correspondent.

Jim, the format of this news conference is pretty specific.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BLITZER: The two leaders will open with statements and then there will be two questions from an American - from American reporters and two questions from British reporters, a total of four questions.

ACOSTA: Right.

BLITZER: But each of those questions, I suspect, will have multiple parts.

ACOSTA: That's right, we don't want our viewers to think that just because there are two questions coming from each side that this is going to be over in about 15 minutes. Reporters are preparing for this and they are usually loading up those questions with multiple parts to press the president and the prime minister. And we'll hear that in just a few moments.

As Jake was saying, we are hearing from a British official and also from a senior administration official that both of these leaders will be talking about cyber cooperation when they make remarks here in just a few moments. They want to set up these cyber cells on both sides of the Atlantic so both countries can really cooperate to prevent the type of cyber-attacks that happened on Sony Pictures.

But one thing that may come up during this news conference, Wolf, is that we also heard the British prime minister say that he would like to see these big tech giants like Google and Apple create these back doors to get around some of this encrypted communications that have been set up in recent months in the aftermath of those Edward Snowden disclosures, those leaks that were very damage, got a lot of people worried about whether or not their smartphones and laptops are vulnerable to government snooping. David Cameron wants to get into the back doors of these companies so investigators can look into whether or not terrorists are plotting attacks. And in the aftermath of what happened last week in France, that is, obviously, very relevant.

And as Jake mentioned, I think the big question of this hour is whether or not the president will be asked, do you regret, sir, not going to Paris for that march that happened on Sunday? Obviously the White House admitted that they wish they had had somebody with a higher profile for that march. It is something that they certainly regret, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. Well let me ask, Jake, if he's asked that question, was it a blunder, was it a mistake for you personally, Mr. President, not to go to Paris to express solidarity at that rally, what do you think he's going to say?

TAPPER: Well, I think he'll probably repeat the words of his press secretary on Monday, which is that they should have sent somebody of higher profile than the U.S. ambassador to France. I mean there, obviously, are security concerns any time you sent the president of the United States somewhere, although certainly the array of world leaders they had in that special path for the world leaders at the rally was one that demanded a lot of security as well. I would be very surprised if he said that he personally should have gone, but rather I think he'll express regret and try to change the subject and move on.

BLITZER: Let's see how he does.

Let's walk over to Gloria, John, Mike Rogers.

Mike Rogers, good to have you with us.

And this is a critically sensitive moment right now. We're watching what's going on in Europe, not only in France and Belgium, but Germany, in Spain, maybe in Ireland, in Italy. It looks like there's a massive sweep of suspected sleeper cells underway right now.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, one of the things that we knew, Wolf, was that AQAP had connections into Syria. They were working with al Qaeda affiliates there. They kept talking for at least eight months about a large scale activity targeted against the west. So the real question here is, is this that plan or do they have something else planned right after this? And it may, in fact, be a combination of both. That's why I think you see the level of concern both from European intelligence services and American intelligence services.

BLITZER: But there's a huge level of concern, congressman, here in the United States. All the law enforcement, the intelligence, the national security agencies, they're working very hard right now. They're afraid that there could be a spillover from Europe into the United States.

ROGERS: Well, clearly. And we've seen arrests in the past year. The arrest in New York was clearly someone who was recruiting for these type of activities. The bad news for us is that they can communicate via the Internet and not have to have a physical meeting for an operational order or a recruiting exercise. So both of those are very, very concerning. That's why I think you're going to see the prime minister today talk about this -- they call it going dark in law enforcement, about the inability for law enforcement to target certain communications of known and suspected terrorists.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, and this has been a point of real tension between the E.U. governments and our own, you know, tech companies, Google, FaceBook. And that's what Cameron is coming here and pressing for. I mean they're also going to announce that they're going to do sort of a simulated attack later in the year that -- where they would simulate an attack on the banks in the city of London and Wall Street and they could see how everybody should react to that. I think Cameron's main point is here, and it's controversial at home, and he is in a tough reelection fight, it's controversial at home, but he believes that if conservatives win in May, they're going to reintroduce legislation that would do more to be able to listen to or watch these encrypted conversations and that's what he wants cooperation with here in the United States.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The tone will be interesting because of the threats at the moment, Wolf, you have another swing of the pendulum in terror politics, both here in the United States and around the world. Remember, after the Edward Snowden leaks, you know, the United States was listening to Angela Merkel, the chancellor of Germany's phone calls. In European countries there was just great outrage that the United States needed to dial it back.

Now you hear indications that, well, are we sharing enough information? Can we share more information? What are we doing to track these people? So I do think there was a debate in the United States about whether there would be NSA reforms, there would be some retreat. And as Gloria mentioned, tensions now because a lot of the technology companies have pushed back because their consumers are saying, wait a minute, what are you sharing with the government about my e-mail, my text messaging and the like? And so I think now, because of what's happening in Europe, there will be at least temporarily a swing back toward more support for these - the heavier hand of surveillance. The question is, how long does it last and what actual steps do they take.

BORGER: Well, and Cameron -- Cameron talks about it as a matter of social responsibility now. And that's the phrase he likes to use. And, you know, it's a question of - and we've had this debate in this country since 9/11, you know, the balance between liberty and protecting our -- and security and protecting ourselves. And I think Cameron is saying, we need more cooperation here. ROGERS: And the tech companies -

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) here -

ROGERS: Here's the problem with the tech companies. They were saying, even if you showed up with a warrant on a specific selector or a phone number or an e-mail -

BORGER: Right.

ROGERS: They weren't going to be able to cooperate because they couldn't decrypt it themselves. That's where I think the concern was.

BLITZER: All right, we're standing by for the president of the United States, the prime minister of Britain, David Cameron, President Barack Obama. They're getting ready. They're wrapping up their meetings over in the Oval Office. They're walking over right here to the East Room of the White House for a joint news conference.

We'll take a quick break. We'll get ready to hear what they have to say. Much more coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're looking at live pictures from the East Room over at the White House. We're getting ready to hear from the president of the United States, the prime minister of Britain, David Cameron, and President Barack Obama. They're getting ready to make opening statements. They've wrapped up their meetings basically over in the East - over in the Oval Office at the White House in the West Wing and they're going to walk over here shortly. We'll, of course, have live coverage. They'll open up with statements and take reporters' questions shortly thereafter.

Jake Tapper is with me.

Jake, this is a very sensitive moment for the president of the United States on the eve of Tuesday's State of the Union Address when he addresses both houses of the United States Congress. I suspect they're going to be rewriting photographs as a result of what's been going on in Paris and Belgium, now in other countries in Europe.

TAPPER: One would think. I was talking to a Democratic senator earlier today who was saying that she felt that the Obama administration had been doing OK. They were on something of a roll in her view in the sense that there was the executive action having to do with halting deportations. There was the new Cuba policy. The administration was feeling good, Democrats were feeling good.

Now, of course, this unpredictable event in France and in Belgium, the security sweeps all over the world. We also have protests going on right now in Syria and Pakistan, not protests against the terrorism, protests against the cartoons, the "Charlie Hebdo" cartoons. So this is a whole other subject that the president did not want to be talking about, did not want to be focusing on. This week he announced he wanted to have a new initiative having to do with community college, free community college for people who qualified. So, indeed, they must be rewriting to a degree. But I suspect they're going to try to focus where they always wanted to focus their attention.

BLITZER: Yes, he's got a whole bunch of domestic priorities he wants to push, but right now the world is obviously engrossed by what's going on in Europe right now and, of course, in the Middle East as well.

Let's bring in our CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, he's joining us from New York, CNN's Hala Gorani, our anchor, she's in Paris, and Fred Pleitgen is joining us from Brussels right now.

Paul Cruickshank, give us your perspective. You understand what's going on in Belgium, how - what has happened last week in Paris, the sweeps underway in Belgium right now. There are sweeps elsewhere in Europe as well. A lot of the analysts are suggesting, intelligence officials, this is a game changer what we're seeing in Europe right now.

CRUICKSHANK: Well, Wolf, that's exactly right. The Belgians have thwarted what they say was a major imminent plot from ISIS, directed by ISIS, in Belgium, in the heart of Europe. This is ISIS potentially taking its war to the west. So I think there are questions for these two world leaders about their war against ISIS, about the airstrikes against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. In the last 24 hours, there were just 11 airstrikes in Syria and Iraq. That's hardly a concerted air campaign. There are many questions about this terror safe haven. Are western powers doing enough to remove the safe haven because, even under the best case scenario, it seems that these terrorists are going to have a safe haven there for one, two, three or more years, Wolf.

BLITZER: And, Fred Pleitgen, update our viewers here in the United States and around the world on what has been going on in Belgian over the past 24 hours.

PLEITGEN: Well, there's been a lot of terror raids here in Belgium, Wolf. There's been 12 in total. The most violent one of which happened in a town called Verviers, which is about 40 miles outside of the capital of Brussels. Two suspected jihadists were killed there.

And what apparently happened there was a counterterrorism police moved into a building and were immediately met with gunfire, single shot fire that, however, came from high-powered weapons. They then fired back. The gun battle lasted for at least nine to 10 minutes and then those two jihadists were dead, a third one was wounded and was then captured. But as I said, that's only one of many anti-terrorism raids that happened here.

The Belgian authorities say they believe that all of these were jihadists who were coming back from Syria. What we have to know about Belgium, is that per capita it's actually the country with the most people going to places like Syria to wage jihad there. So they say these people were behind all of this and the targets of all of this were police here in Belgium. The prosecutor said that among the many things that they found in these stashes were weapons, but also police uniforms, strongly indicating that these people wanted to kill police officers, dress up as police officers to then kill cops, both on the street, as well as in police departments.