Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Yemeni President's Chief of Staff Kidnapped; U.S. Intelligence Led to Belgian Raid; Belgium on High Security; President Obama's State of the Union Address; Closer Look at Amedy Coulibaly; Recovery of Flight 8501; Cartoonist in Hiding; Romney for President Again?

Aired January 17, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again, everyone. And welcome. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Happening right now in the NEWSROOM, the threat of a terror attack is keeping countries across Europe on edge. The fear is that terrorists from so-called sleeper cells may be poised to strike in France, Germany and Belgium.

In Belgium, troops are out in force. They're guarding potential targets, including the Jewish museum in Central Brussels. Earlier this week, more than a dozen suspected militants were detained in Belgium, France and Germany in sweeping anti terror raids. And there may be a possible ISIS connection to the terror plots in Europe. A counterterrorism official says ISIS has ordered recruits to return to Europe from Syria's battle grounds to launch attacks.

We're also learning that one of the gunmen who attacked the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine has been buried. Said Kouachi's body was placed in an unmarked grave overnight in his hometown about 80 miles outside of Paris.

And now to another terror hot bed, Yemen, and new information on a kidnapping there. Shiite rebels have claimed responsibility for kidnapping the president's chief of staff. It happened earlier today in broad daylight.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is on the ground in Yemen.

So, Nick, any new information about this chief of staff?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that at 10:00 this morning, he was in the very center of the capital city Sana'a behind me.

Dr. Ahmed bin Mubarak taken from his car by armed men. There was a quick condemnation and a demand for his release by the British and American embassies, and soon after that, as you mentioned, the movement known as the Houthis here, a collection of tribes and militia that have been moving quite successfully in the past three months across Yemen, in fact into the capital city in the past months, where you now see a little of the check points on main roads here. The Houthis said that they had taken the president's chief of staff.

And they were detaining him, in their words, because they were concerned the president was going to rush in, in their mind, a new constitution which they have not approved.

Really, the matter here escalating out of many people's immediate fears. But the conflict we've seen here in the past few months has swept across the nation. It's increasingly sectarian. The presidential administration and a lot of Sunni groups and tribes against the Houthis, and has linked the civil conflict and simply the fact that the presidential chief of staff can be taken from the very center of the capital in broad daylight tells you really how close to a collapsed state Yemen is -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And so, Nick, it's been common knowledge that Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has used Yemen as a training ground and now we're talking about, you know, Shiites claiming responsibility.

How much more difficult is it for Yemeni officials to try to tackle? How many groups may be operating there and planning terror?

WALSH: Well, the key one of concern is Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, as you mentioned. But the real fact here is that nobody can be entirely sure who is operating in kind of the badlands of Yemen, so to speak. As we talked earlier, the presidential chief of staff isn't safe in the capital city.

There is so much of a power vacuum here that years ago al Qaeda could move in, they are said to be benefitting from this strife here because many frightened Sunnis, frightened of the advance of the Shia, dominantly Shia Houthis, are taking up arms to assist al Qaeda and allowing them to focus on external operations.

Really, Yemen is such a -- enormous trouble spot right now that many are concerned we'll see more attacks in western Europe because simply of how close to collapse Yemen is -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much from Yemen.

So we're also learning more about the role U.S. intelligence played in the raid on that Belgian terror cell.

Here now is CNN's Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.S. intelligence community had been aware of the terrorist plot in Belgium for weeks and was sharing critical information with Belgian authorities.

The plot was disrupted in a spectacular fashion, with shootouts and the arrest of 17 people across Western Europe.

ERIC VAN DER SYPT, BELGIAN FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: This operation was meant to dismantle a terrorist cell. Not only the terrorist cell but also the logistic network behind it.

STARR: A U.S. official tells CNN, the entire developing plot was being monitored and watched as part of an ongoing relationship between the U.S. and European intelligence services.

JEFF RATHKE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We've got active and ongoing law enforcement and information-sharing arrangements with our allies in Europe, and naturally, those contacts continue.

STARR: U.S. officials will not say precisely what they knew, how much they knew, and when they knew it. There is concern those details could signal other militants planning attacks. But one official says, "We were aware, we were tracking this." Adding, "There is a high probability other attacks were being planned."

A European security source tells CNN that when Belgian authorities arrested two men returning from Syria over the weekend, they squeezed them for information, and then decided to act quickly.

The U.S. was also aware of the timing of the moves by Belgian law enforcement, U.S. officials say.

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Many of these individuals that they are targeting now are on U.S. watch lists. Of course, the concern is, once these guys go fight, go back to Europe, they're able to fly to the United States without visas and it's a five or six-hour plane ride.

STARR: The U.S. intelligence community estimates more than 19,000 foreign fighters have traveled to Syria. Hundreds of them may be with ISIS, which has vowed to send loyalists to the West to attack.

(On camera): The NATO military alliance, which is headquartered in Belgium, is also looking at stepping up their security measures.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Phil Black is in Brussels.

So, Phil, they are taking steps to protect some of the embassies there, and very prominent other locations such as the Jewish Museum, which has been a target of attacks in the past. Tell me more about the security measures. At least now we're seeing some cars that are moving and there is some activity behind you whereas for a moment it was looking like people were staying inside.

Give us an idea how security, beefed-up security measures are impacting people's lives.

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the security, it's pretty visual here now particularly in some parts of the city. And it's really a rare sight in recent history to see soldiers, heavily armed soldiers, deployed on the streets of a major European city. They are very visible at key locations. You mentioned the Jewish Museum, other key Jewish sites, institutions,

schools, these sorts of things. And governments and embassy buildings, and buildings related to the European Union. It's all these potentially obvious sites, I guess, that the authorities fear could be targeted in some way if there are still groups or individuals out there planning terror attacks. And that's really what this shows.

They're deploying at least 150 troops on to the streets of this country so far. More in the coming days. It really does show that despite the raids that we've seen here recently, they do believe there is an ongoing terror threat. But as you can see behind me, life in the city does very much continue. People are still going about their regular lives on this Saturday evening.

It is, I think, comforting to a significant degree for many, particularly in these Jewish communities, to see these armed soldiers on the streets -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Phil Black, thank you so much in Brussels. Appreciate it.

All right. Coming up next, is U.S. intervention making Europe's terror problem worse? I'll ask someone who wrote the book on the Middle East.

And later, those long waits at the airport security lines, guess what, they might be getting even longer. We'll hear why from the head of Homeland Security.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. As we've been reporting, security has been heightened across Europe. There are growing concerns that terror attacks could come from so-called sleeper cells. There have already been more than a dozen arrests in three countries as police try to break up potential attacks.

Joining me right now from London is Fawaz Gerges. He is the author "The New Middle East" and a professor at the London School of Economics.

Good to see you.

FAWAZ GERGES, AUTHOR, "THE NEW MIDDLE EAST": Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Let me ask you about -- there is a philosophy shared by many who say whenever the U.S. intervenes, case point Iraq, Afghanistan, even Libya, that it worsens matters, it may inspire a lot more people, particularly young people, to become jihadis.

Do you share that view?

GERGES: I do, Fredricka. I think on the whole, historically speaking, American military intervention in the greater Middle East has done more damage than good. Iraq has been a catastrophe. Both in human terms and political terms. I know, Fredricka, myself an American, I have been engaged in the

debate on America's foreign policy in the Middle East. That was all humility. The debate in America on the Middle East simplifies a complex reality. It's either black and white. It really has little understanding of the complex social and political struggles that are raging in the Middle East.

These struggles, as you know, in Syria, in Yemen, as you were talking to your correspondent, in Libya, in Iraq, in Lebanon, have been decades in the making. And the U.S. -- your American foreign policy, our foreign policy, is partially responsible for some of the problems as a result of American foreign policy prioritizing security and stability and gas and oil at the expense of human rights and liberal ideas.

But liberal military intervention is not the answer to most of the Middle East complex social and political struggles.

WHITFIELD: So then how does the U.S. play a role in global -- in the fight against, you know, global terrorism without further inspiring radicalism or without military engagement that may be blamed for inspiring radicalism? How would the U.S. play a role collectively with other countries?

GERGES: You know, Fredricka, I am not defending Barack Obama. I have written a book on Barack Obama, I am critical of President Barack Obama. But one point for the American public, those who criticize Barack Obama don't realize that when he basically came to the White House, he inherited multiple wars on multiple fronts in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Yemen and what have you.

Barack Obama did not create the problems that are raging in Iraq today. We know what happened after the American military intervention in Iraq.

ISIS, Fredricka. How many commentators you have interviewed on your show have mentioned the fact that ISIS is a product? Al Qaeda and Iraq, ISIS is part of al Qaeda family, is a product of the American military intervention, occupation of Iraq. There had been no al Qaeda in Iraq.

So how does Barack Obama -- how has Barack Obama dealt with the Middle East? As light as possible of an American military footprint. Worked with local communities. Multilateral diplomacies, empower local societies as opposed to unilateral action.

I know in America, Fredricka, there is an addiction to the -- with the military prowess that the United States has. But most of the problems in the Middle East need American social, political and economic support. You need to empower civil societies. And that's why it's a complex strategy that's very difficult long term, as opposed to sending American boots on the ground.

Because military intervention -- and the reason why Barack Obama is not really deepening American military intervention in Iraq and Syria, he would play into the hands of the extremists. In fact, the best thing that would happen to ISIS now if the United States would basically -- were to send an army to Iraq because they would transform the struggle from a struggle within to a struggle against the great Satan, which in their eyes is the United States and its European allies.

WHITFIELD: So, then, Professor, what does that look like? What does social and political support by way of the U.S. look like when you talk about these localities that need some assistance, need intervention but not the military intervention that, you know, many propose? But instead what you speak of, this, you know, social support? What does that look like?

GERGES: Simply, one word -- two words. Institution building. I mean, when we talk about the so-called Arab spring uprisings, the United States and its European allies have done very little, as you know. The U.S. was preoccupied with the economy at home. Europe is inward-looking. What you need is that institutions, basically the Middle East really is an institutional wasteland as a result of 60, 70 years of authoritarianism.

You need to build institutions. What do I mean by that? I mean you build in terms of universities, in terms of schools, in terms of productive base, in terms of empowering women, in terms of civil society, in terms of employment, in terms of basically relations between the civilian leadership and the military. These are -- they need to be 30, 40, 50 years of hard work, because they need to be built block by block from the bottom up. That's what the Middle East --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: And then --

GERGES: -- is going to Middle Eastern.

WHITFIELD: Doesn't it also seem that part of the concern then becomes whether it's U.S. money or, you know, another European nation's money that goes into a place like, say, for example, Yemen or maybe even Iraq, there will be many people who will be concerned about whether that money will end up in the hands of terrorists and that it won't go towards building infrastructure or helping to create jobs?

What do you say or what do you do about that potential problem?

GERGES: You know, Fredricka, no one is suggesting -- I'm not suggesting that American and European money should be given to Middle Eastern states. In fact, the biggest cash flow in the world today is not in China. It's in the Middle East. The biggest cash flow. What you need is American leadership. European leadership. In terms of working with Middle Eastern societies to invest the money through multilateral institutions, as opposed to giving the money to states.

You need to invest in civil societies, local communities, whether you're talking about Iraq and Yemen and Libya, you need leadership to help basically these societies -- glue their societies together and build their institutions. What I'm talking about -- I know it's not easy, because this is a very

complex strategy, it's a complex, long-term strategy that takes into account the need to empower local societies, not by unilateral actions between the United States and Middle Eastern states. Through multilateral organizations, particularly international institutions and the United Nations.

WHITFIELD: All right. Fantastic conversation.

Fawaz Gerges, thank you so much from London. Always making us smarter. Appreciate it.

GERGES: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead -- all right, well, is it a Washington spectacle? What could be coming next? Something that everyone is anticipating. We're talking about the president's State of the Union address on Tuesday. What is on his agenda?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Checking our top stories.

A gunman is dead after a shooting at a Florida mall this morning. Our affiliate, WESH, says the suspect shot himself after firing off five or six gunshots in the Melbourne Square Mall food court. A woman who saw it all describes the frightening scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONNA EVANS, EYEWITNESS: It was a frightening experience. It's something which you don't ever want anybody to experience. It was crazy. It was -- we had just gotten our food to sit down by Starbucks -- across Starbucks and Chick-Fil-A, and all of a sudden you just hear the pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And then you just drop everything and you just -- your body makes you run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Two people were injured in the shooting. Meanwhile police say the mall is being closed and being cleared, store by store.

Overseas, a typhoon in the Philippines forced Pope Francis to cut short a huge outdoor mass today. Despite high winds and drenching rain, thousands of worshippers showed up for the service in Tacloban. That's the same area that was devastated by a super typhoon back in 2013. After the service, the Pope headed to Manila. That's where he will deliver an outdoor mass to more than a million people there tomorrow.

And a major announcement from the U.S. Supreme Court. The justices have decided they will hear arguments on whether states have the right to ban same-sex couples from marrying. Right now, 36 states allow same-sex marriage, including the District of Columbia. The justices will hear arguments in April and issue a ruling by June. And the State of the Union speech is Tuesday, and for the first time,

President Barack Obama will address a Congress controlled by the opposing party. So what can be expected?

CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, has a preview -- Gloria.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Fred, any president of the United States knows that the evening of the State of the Union is a huge audience. And so they try and take advantage of it.

President Obama has decided to do it a little bit differently this time. For the past two weeks, he's been involved in a rollout of the State of the Union that is going to include a bunch of domestic policy initiatives, including community college free-for-all in this country. Expanding paid sick leave. Universal broadband Internet access and on and on.

Also, what we don't know is what the president is going to say on foreign policy. He's got a controversy with his own party right now about whether to pass more sanctions for Iran. Some Democrats want to do that. He says no, wait. We don't know what he's going to say about the terror events in Europe that have occurred over the past week.

As he stands before the Congress, he's going to be standing before a Republican Party that is quite divided, Fred. You've got the Republican leadership wanting to prove that they can govern from Capitol Hill because they do control the Congress.

You've got a handful of presidential candidates in the Senate on the Republican side who want to promote their own ideological agendas, and so they're going to be at odds with the leadership.

On the Democratic side, you've got Democrats who believe that this president has not been progressive enough, that he's not done enough to combat the evils of Wall Street. And they're going to want to see him show that side of himself in the State of the Union.

So the president is speaking to a divided Congress, a divided country, and he's a lame duck -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Gloria, thank you so much.

Television's best political team will have complete coverage of President Obama's State of the Union speech Tuesday night. CNN's coverage starts 7:00 p.m., Eastern Time.

All right. Still ahead, we've been taking off our shoes for years now at the airports. But with new terror threats on the horizon, we may soon see additional security measures at the check-in line.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Hello, again, everyone. Thanks for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The shootout that ended terrorist Amedy Coulibaly's life wasn't his

first run-in with the police. He was already on the wrong side of the law years before his attack in Paris. Not as a jihadist but as a small-time criminal.

CNN's Jim Bittermann joining me now from Paris. More being learned of him, and the others, as well. Was there anything in Coulibaly's past that could have predicted his dissent into Islamic radicalism?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, as you pointed out, he was definitely on police radar. I mean, he'd been convicted five times for armed robbery and once for drug dealing. And as a consequence, he was known, he'd been in prison several times. Most of his adult life he spent in prison. So he was known.

But it was not known that he had developed these terrorist connections, these fundamentalist, Islamic connections that later would lead him to attack the kosher grocery store.

Here's a look at his past that we assembled yesterday about his past and the gritty suburb where he grew up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BITTERMANN (voice-over): In Paris, Amedy Coulibaly may go down in history as the religious extremist who died shooting it out with the anti-terror squad. But in the gritty Paris suburb of Grigny where he grew up, Coulibaly is remembered more as a local thug who spent much of his adult life behind bars.

In his early school photos obtained by France 2 Television, he looked likable enough. But teachers said Coulibaly, the only boy in an immigrant family with 10 children, was an ongoing discipline problem.

(On camera): It was in his high school years here that Coulibaly first got into trouble. In the end he'd be arrested five times for armed robbery and once for dealing in drugs.

(Voice-over): A lawyer who defended one of his accomplices believes Coulibaly changed from small crimes to hardened criminal when a motorcycle theft turned deadly and police shot one of his best friends.

PIERRE MAIRAT, LAWYER (Through Translator): This was a traumatic event when he lost his friend. He, too, could have died because a bullet could have easily hit him.

BITTERMANN: Coulibaly, who spent most of his adult life behind bars, was in and out of the sprawling and overcrowded national prison located coincidentally in his hometown. According to a journalist he himself made this video of life inside the prison. He seemed like a leader, she said, behind bars.

AGNES VAHRAMIAN, FRANCE 2 JOURNALIST (Through Translator): He was an intelligent boy, one of the tough ones. He was actually very at ease in prison. He was dominant and very much in charge. It was his second home really.

BITTERMANN: It's not clear when he got religion, but in 2010 when he was jailed here, he came in contact with an Islamic extremist, Jamaal Beghal. By this time he was estranged from his family.

The local mayor who grew up in the same public housing as the terrorist did says the Coulibalys, like many here, were just trying to better themselves.

MAYOR PHILIPPE RIO, GRIGNY, FRANCE (Through Translator): Yes, this area is violent, yes, there is delinquency, yes, there is poverty, yes, there is suffering, but there is also success.

BITTERMANN: But if Coulibaly's family was Muslim, it was hardly fundamentalist. One of his nine sisters, for example, teaches a dance class she calls booty therapy.

Back in the family's hometown, some remember Coulibaly's attempts to fit in. In 2009 he was even invited to the French presidential palace as part of a panel meeting with President Sarkozy to discuss youth unemployment. He worked for a time at the local Coca-Cola plant where he met the girlfriend who later became his wife and accomplice.

People may have known about Coulibaly's criminal record but were nonetheless surprised at his terrorist connections.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): We were shocked. It's hard to believe. It's unreal.

BITTERMANN: One person who was less surprised was a social worker who worked with Coulibaly as a young man, among other things, taking him to Disneyland, Paris.

De Charles Claude Aka said that after not seeing Coulibaly for 15 years, he suddenly showed up in his office last spring after getting out of prison.

DE CHARLES CLAUDE AKA, SOCIAL WORKER: He's lost, lost. He needs people every time to remind him that that can be done, that can't be done. When someone like him is involved with manipulating people, they can use him for anything.

BITTERMANN: The mayor of Grigny told CNN that it's wrong to imply that suburbs of Paris like his are nothing but breeding grounds for terrorists. Many people work their way into mainstream society from here, he says, like the mayor himself. But he adds that the large families, the unemployment, the lack of police, the decaying infrastructure, provide a fertile environment for all sorts of criminality, including in the case of Amedy Coulibaly, terrorism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BITTERMANN: And Fredricka, in that suburb, that suburb of Gingny which is south of Paris. In fact police have rounded up a dozen people in the last 36 hours and are holding them for questioning, believing they may have been part of those attacks in some way, in some way perhaps providing logistics to Coulibaly to commit that attack on the kosher supermarket, where he killed four people and then died in a hail of police gunfire -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Wow. What a sad spiral, just looking at your piece from being that little kid, you know, the future was bright for him and everyone else, but then the paths were very different.

All right. Thank you so much, Jim Bittermann. Appreciate it.

All right. As terrorists potentially ramp up their efforts to strike several European countries, Homeland officials here in the U.S. are beefing up security. And that means new security measures when you travel.

Here is CNN's Rene Marsh.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We've evolved to a new phase in the global terrorist threat.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The head of Homeland Security revealing today even more airport security measures are on the way.

JOHNSON: We're looking at doing more in the short term in reaction to some of the threat streams that we're seeing now.

MARSH: This after DHS announced earlier this week ramped up searches at U.S. airports over fears terrorists are creating non-metallic explosives capable of passing through some airport scanners undetected.

(On camera): So when you talk about more measures as far as aviation goes, what would that look like? What's the timeline for that and what is this new intelligence?

JOHNSON: Well, we're looking at it right now and I told my folks that I wanted -- I wanted an assessment in the very short term. And so I expect to get that in the next couple days.

MARSH: So it's unclear what those extra measures would be?

JOHNSON: We're looking at it right now.

MARSH (voice-over): Additional random passenger and luggage checks are now happening at the gate once travelers have cleared TSA checkpoints. After al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula published a step by step guide to building hard to detect bombs.

Following September 11th, transportation systems continue to be a target for terrorists. In 2005 four suicide bombs detonated within seconds of each other on a bus and three different trains traveling through London underground stations. In 2010, Najibullah Zazi pleaded guilty for plotting to blow up New York subways.

JOHNSON: We need to focus more on homeland based threats.

MARSH:: Just this week an electrical malfunction cause smoke to fill a D.C. metro station killing one and injuring dozens more. Passengers were left waiting for more than 40 minutes before emergency responders helped them evacuate, raising serious questions about how prepared the U.S. is to respond to emergencies on the nation's transportation system.

BLAIR RUBLE, VICE PRESIDENT FOR PROGRAMS, WILSON CENTER: One does have to wonder what would have happened had that fire been set by terrorists. And clearly, the response was inadequate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: My goodness. Incredible pictures. That's CNN's Rene Marsh reporting.

All right. Divers have found the fuselage of AirAsia Flight 8501, but they're having problems retrieving it. We'll tell you why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. An update now. Earlier we told you about a shooting that took place at a Melbourne, Florida, mall. It was called the Melbourne Square Mall right in the food court and earlier the reports were the alleged shooter killed himself and that was the only death. Now we have an update. Among those injured, one has died from the injuries sustained during that shooting.

Witnesses said they heard four or five shots. Now we know there are two that have died in that shooting, including that of the alleged gunman, and now of another innocent bystander. The mall remains closed, however, and we do understand police will have a press conference at 3:00 Eastern hour to update us on this investigation.

All right. Now overseas right now searchers are preparing to bring the fuselage of Flight 8501 to the surface of the Java Sea. Divers have been scouring the fuselage for bodies since it was located on Thursday. But bad weather and strong currents have been making the recovery efforts very difficult. The next possible option might be raising the fuselage from the ocean floor.

Joining me right now is former NTSB medical officer, Mitch Garber. He's also the senior managing consultant for Engineering Systems, Incorporated.

All right. Good to see you again. So we've got a sample of one of the flight data recorders. We understand now, you know, because all planes have two, two have been retrieved from this plane, but we don't know the information. Not because that information can't be retrieved right away, but because there is a process of filing a report, and then publicizing what's on it?

MITCH GARBER, FORMER NTSB MEDICAL OFFICER: Well, again, what's going to happen right now, they've got the flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder. They'll have similar functions to the one we've got right here. Although these are smaller, more compact, newer models that are used, solid state memory. They have downloaded that memory already, that's my understanding at least from the information that's been released.

That memory, that information, is now sitting in computers and is ready to be analyzed. In fact, they have probably already started some of the analysis of that material. They're going to be very careful about what they release. The cockpit voice recorder tapes are going to have a lot of information on there that may be personal or private and not relevant to the investigation. So they're not going to release that information, at least not immediately.

And with regard to the flight data recorder, they want to make sure that those data are accurate. That the recorder, in fact, was functioning properly, that the information that was being received from the systems that were providing that information was actually what was going on with the aircraft before they release any of that information. They want to make sure it's accurate.

WHITFIELD: There is always great hope these recording devices really will be able to convey what happened prior to an accident, during the accident, and maybe even beyond that. Is too much hope being put into these boxes?

GARBER: Well, you can't always get everything you want. As an investigator, we always want to get as much information as possible. Some of the information is going to have to come from other analyses being done, or even have been done. The investigators have already likely gotten information from the maintenance of the aircraft, from service of the aircraft, from the training of the individuals who are operating the aircraft.

All of that information is going to be now sort of analyzed in the context of what was going on here with the airplane. Does it help to explain why a particular reaction was made or why a particular signal was responded to in a certain way. All of that information is going to come from these black boxes, these orange black boxes, and they're going to tell us what kinds of things were going on in the cockpit.

How were they responding to information that was coming to them? And was that response appropriate? Were they attentive? Were they distracted? A lot of that information, hopefully, will come from these.

WHITFIELD: And weather has gotten in the way of retrieving the fuselage and these large pieces. How important is it that it be pulled up intact, not broken, as it's being pulled up, or dismantled intentionally to make the weight lighter because of the currents, because of, you know, the bad weather.

GARBER: This is going to be a very difficult procedure. It's very -- even though it's in relatively shallow waters, it's still pretty deep. We're down around 100 feet. It's murky, it's difficult for the divers. It's potentially very dangerous for the divers. And one of the things that I think is probably going on right now is weighing this need to get this information in this -- the materials and, of course, the bodies of the passengers up versus the safety of the people who are actually doing that work.

And so I think that as that goes along, they're going to have an idea what are we going to do with this, how are we going to get it up, and of course the recorders are going to tell you, are there things that we really want preserved, are there things that are going to be more important to us than other things. The cockpit area may be critically important, and so that may require a different set of evaluations to be done as that's --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: What would happen they would intentionally try to break up or, you know, tear off pieces to lighten the load, because they're dealing with, you know, the circumstances of moving currents?

GARBER: Well, and not just the -- not just the currents, obviously, but the weight, the hydro dynamics.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

GARBER: The fluid, how that's going to work against you, and perhaps with you as you're trying to raise it.

WHITFIELD: Yes. The vessel, just try to pull it up and all that.

GARBER: So there are folks -- this is all they do. Their specialty is retrieval of things from the ocean floor. Those are the folks who are being consulted now. They're going to be having these exact conversations to try to determine what's going to be most effective, safest and still preserve the critical information for this investigation.

WHITFIELD: Wow. All very extraordinary.

All right. Thanks so very much, Mitch Garber. Good to see you. Appreciate it.

GARBER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: An American cartoonist is still in hiding after she drew an image of the Prophet Mohammed four years ago. You can see Molly Norris' name on the bottom of this jihadist "Inspire" list that was issued by al Qaeda. It's the same poster that called for the death of "Charlie Hebdo" editor Stephane Charbonnier.

Alina Machado recently spoke to a former coworker of Morris' who insists the cartoonist was not trying to offend with that drawing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM APPELO, FRIEND OF MOLLY NORRIS: I've been grieving for four years. ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been that long

since Tim Appelo has seen or heard from his colleague and friend, Molly Norris, a Seattle cartoonist who went into hiding in 2010 after receiving death threats from radical Islamists.

APPELO: She is the unlikeliest person to be at the center of an international incident involving hate.

MACHADO: Radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki said Norris was a prime target for execution for creating cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, proposing an "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day." Her illustrations depict the likeness of the prophet as several items, including a teacup and a domino.

APPELO: She didn't mean to skewer or offend. She just thought people should lighten up. She was just standing up for free speech.

MACHADO: Norris created the cartoon partly in response to Comedy Central's decision to sensor an episode showing Mohammed. Appelo says Norris followed up the controversial cartoon with this one, encouraging religious tolerance.

APPELO: Her first impulse was not to strike back, but to reach out and embrace.

MACHADO: The FBI told Norris her life was in danger and she decided to disappear. Appelo says she compared the threats to cancer.

APPELO: You never know if it's going to be fine for the rest of your life or erupt at some point and end your life.

MACHADO: Three years after she vanished, Norris' name popped up again, this time on al Qaeda's Most Wanted list in the jihadist magazine "Inspire." The list also included "Charlie Hebdo's" editor, gunned down last week in Paris.

APPELO: It was horrible. I thought now it's raising its head again, but I think really it's been -- it's really been shadowing her ever since.

MACHADO: Former FBI agent Tom Fuentes says assuming a new identity is not easy.

TOM FUENTES, FORMER FBI AGENT: To stay hidden like that would be the equivalent of being dead.

MACHADO: And it often means leaving everything behind, including family and friends.

FUENTES: There's no indication these terrorists are going to say, well, it's been a long time, we forgive and forget.

MACHADO: Alina Machado, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: And a friend told CNN that he believes she is still drawing, just under a different name. He says her style is very distinctive and believes he has seen her work since she went into hiding.

We'll be right back with much more of the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Mitt Romney says he's considering another presidential run. And the 2012 Republican presidential nominee explained his intentions last night at the Republican National Committee's winter meeting in San Diego.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm giving some serious consideration to the future, but this I know. We can win in 2016 as a party, in the House, in the Senate, and in the White House if we communicate a clear vision of where we're taking this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Romney had said after the 2012 race that he would not run again. Well. apparently he may have a change of heart.

So San Diego is not the first big meeting of the GOP this year. House and Senate members got together in Pennsylvania for a nice little retreat in of all places, Hershey, Pennsylvania. And as we find out from CNN's Chris Moody, you could say it was a pretty sweet retreat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS MOODY, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Stay in school, kids, because one day you might become a journalist and you can eat chocolate all day. With the Republicans.

We're at the Hershey Lodge in Hershey, Pennsylvania, where the Republican Senate and House are meeting together for the first joint retreat they've had in 10 years.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I'm a hopeful person. Glass half full.

MOODY: Even though we're here as the press it doesn't mean we actually get to see what happens behind closed doors. Republicans are holding this meeting in total privacy.

Republicans took over the Senate and they bolstered their majority in the House but there's a long road ahead. A lot of things that they're talking about here, particularly immigration.

BOEHNER: There are 535 of us on Capitol Hill. And to try to get all of us to agree is not an easy job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe -- is this your goal to eat that by the end of the day?

MOODY: I'm good. I'm going to eat it before you guys pass something on immigration.

(LAUGHTER)

MOODY: Living over all of this is talk of the presidential election and already members of Congress are talking about who they might choose, who they will back, who they won't back. We saw Congressman Jason Chaffetz from Utah really a full throated defense of Romney.

CHAFFETZ: He's well -- we know exactly what we're to get.

MOODY: We talked to Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina. He's saying, you know, maybe Romney's had his day.

Do you think Mitt Romney's decision to possibly look at another run is a wise choice for him?

REP. MICK MULVANEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I think he will have a difficult time. Governor Romney failed to motivate Republicans in 2012. I'm not sure if he tries to reinvent himself that they would believe him.

MOODY: And of course, there's a lot of talk about chocolate.

REP. KEN BUCK (R), COLORADO: Chocolate shampoo, chocolate conditioner, chocolate body lotion. I;ve never seen so much chocolate in my life.

MOODY: I just dreamed of a day where I'd spend a week with a couple of hundred Republicans in freezing Pennsylvania while eating a five- pound bar of chocolate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Sweet deal.

So, Chris, did you ever finish that five-pound bar? This is going to take me a little time.

MOODY: I had a little bit of help. I shared it with the CNN D.C. bureau who consumed the entire thing just yesterday.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: OK. Now I can't talk with my mouth full.

(LAUGHTER)

OK. So let's talk about maybe the sweet field of potential candidates for the primary battle. No, I really cannot talk now. You're going to have to take it away.

MOODY: Well, the goal of the retreat was really to find a way forward, for Congress, and the House and the Senate met together. And they didn't necessarily do that. In these retreats in the past they've come forward with bold proclamations of what they want to do and what they plan to do. They don't always follow through on it but this year it was more of just a get together and a meet and greet.

Now overshadowing that possibly was all the talk about 2016 and as we saw in San Diego at the RNC meeting. Republicans are really divided about 2016 which is understandable. There's a huge primary coming up over the next couple -- over the next year and a half or so. And so they're going to be able to get to see a lot of the candidates. But no, these people, the Republicans are not necessarily sold on Mitt Romney. He's going to have to earn it just like he earned it last time.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. And it's going to be interesting to see if he kind of changes his strategy and his vision. You know, we already saw a taste of it, RR, so to speak, a taste, that he said, you know, he can appeal, you know, to the everyday, you know, person and the everyday or not necessarily appeal to their struggles but that he had a greater awareness because that was the great criticism, you know, during his run that he was out of touch.

MOODY: Yes. He was criticized for not being concerned about the very poor and that's because he said on a TV interview that he's not concerned about the very poor.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

MOODY: So he is trying to overcome that and put a different foot forward for 2016.

WHITFIELD: All right. Chris moody, thanks so much. Thanks for bringing chocolate to the hour. That was fun.

MOODY: You're welcome. Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: All right. We have much more straight ahead in the NEWSROOM. And it all starts right now.