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French Police Seek Two New Suspects; Will Muslims Help Defeat Radicals?; Israeli Attack Inside Syria; President Obama vs. Republican Congress; Politics of Saying Sorry; Swift Gifts Slam Obama's Free Tuition Plan

Aired January 18, 2015 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Perfect soundtrack as French president Francois Hollande and the French nation endured an awkward embrace.

Awkward indeed.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. 6:00 Eastern and we are covering all angles of Europe's fight against terror.

In several European countries this weekend police and intelligence agents are finding terror suspects and arresting them and now some movement in the investigation in France.

This just in to CNN, a source close to the investigation in Paris says two new people are in focus. Their DNA was found on the belongings of one of the Paris attackers. The man who held hostages in that kosher supermarket where four people were killed.

This is developing as we speak, more information in just a moment on that. Meantime, we have confirmation that several people are in custody right now in Greece. At least one of them may be connected to the terror plot that was broken apart in Belgium just a few days ago. The Belgian government wants one of those suspects who's been arrested extradited back from Greece.

National security is at the highest level throughout Belgium this weekend. You can see it playing out in the streets. Analysts believe there are more jihadis in that small country per capita than anywhere else in western Europe.

And a big part of the investigation is aimed outside of the country where extremists have struck this month. Analysts are looking at a group of men freshly back from fighting, training alongside ISIS. European officials believe ISIS leaders may be controlling terrorists in western Europe.

Our senior international correspondent Phil Black joins us live again from Brussels.

Phil, what can you tell us about these two new individuals. I know they're not calling them suspects yet, but these two individuals that are sharply in focus for the authorities in France. PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And so this relates to

Amedy Coulibaly, the man who stormed the kosher supermarket, taking people hostage, killing four of those people in that store as well as a police officer the day before. Before he was gunned down by police in their investigation to determine who could have supported him, who could have supported that attack.

The authorities in France are looking for two additional people, people whose DNA they have discovered on Coulibaly's possessions. So it's not a lot to go on initially, but what they are looking for are people whose DNA matches the samples they have found on belongings that were found in Coulibaly's possessions to try and determine what, if any, role they had in his actions, his attacks in Paris over those two days -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Also, Phil, can you tell us what we may know in terms of those arrests in Greece? And it happened yesterday, about this time yesterday, and then now Belgium is asking for one of those two suspects to be extradited.

Do we know why? Do we have any details on that?

BLACK: The Belgian and Greek authorities, Poppy, have been really tight-lipped about their cooperation here. They acknowledged somewhat reluctantly that they weren't working together that the Belgians had passed on some information which the Greeks were tracking down.

We now know, it's been confirmed that the Greek police did arrest two people based upon the information that was discovered, and now Belgium believes after examining what the Greek authorities have been able to dig up that there is a chance one of these men is connected to the terror plot they disrupted in this country just late last week.

They believe that's the case. They're still not saying why. They're not saying what role he may have played in that attack, what information has led to his discovery, but they're being very disciplined in the information they released because this is still very much, they say, an ongoing investigation.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Phil Black joining us live from Brussels. Thank you for the reporting on this throughout, Phil. We appreciate it.

Joining me now to talk more about this, CNN contributor Buck Sexton, also former CIA counterterrorism analyst, and in Washington with us this evening former foreign policy adviser for the president, for President Obama, David Tafuri.

Thank you for being here.

David, first of all, did I pronounce your last name correctly? I don't think he can hear me. So we're going to work on him -- can you hear me, David?

DAVID TAFURI, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

HARLOW: OK. Yes. I said, did I pronounce your last name correctly? Tafuri?

TAFURI: Yes.

HARLOW: OK. I was worried about that and I apologize.

So let me ask you this. What we just heard from Phil Black in terms of Belgium trying to get one of the suspects who was arrested in Greece back, do you think they're going to be able to do that? I mean, cooperation between these European nations is key in this. How hard is it going to be for them to get that suspect extradited?

TAFURI: In this case it shouldn't be very difficult. We see that Greece was acting in concert with Belgium in arresting these alleged conspirators. Certainly, if there's evidence that's sufficient to show that they have engaged in illegal activity Greece would be very likely to extradite them back to Belgium. There would have to be a hearing where that evidence would be presented first.

HARLOW: So, Buck, when we talk about what's playing out here in Europe, it's moving very, very quickly. It's spreading further south now, to Greece, et cetera, now these two new people keenly in focus in France, connected to -- possibly connected to the attack.

In terms of the United States, what does it mean for us here in the United States? There is a lot of fear about a potential similar attack here. Could that play out here in the United States? What are U.S. authorities, what are they doing right now coming from your CIA background?

BUCK SEXTON, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Right. There's an elevated threat right now. Just because when you have groups disrupted like this, some may feel as though, and this is obviously the case in Europe, that there is an acceleration that has to go on for their attack planning.

Because there are some cells that are being broken up it's more likely you will find others that are connected, you may people that fought alongside them with the Islamic State, for example, who have now infiltrated back into Europe. And so here in America we also have that concern. We have the concern that some cells will be activated now because there is a heightened scrutiny and also there could be communications with them.

There's also the sense of just piling on. A jihadist group can hit us now, given what's happened in France, given the reality of that attack. It seems like they'll have more of an impact. This is sort of a moment for them so I think that's why the profile is higher. And also we're trying to help the European.

HARLOW: Right.

SEXTON: We have capabilities they don't necessarily have.

HARLOW: Can you give us a sense, because we heard in our Arwa Damon's reporting earlier this evening talking about how Turkey is so key here because of where it is located, the fact that money flows through there? The fact that, you know -- and terrorists have been able to flow through there into Syria, in the big and Turkey is saying we're giving all the information we have to the U.S. -- to the West and what more can we do? They're not executing on it. What's your take on that?

SEXTON: Well, it's not just the raw data of all the people moving in and out of the country. There would have to be specific investigations of certain individuals who are trying to make their way or might be making their way into the Islamic State controlled areas of Syria or other areas of Syria to flight. And so some individuals don't necessarily trigger the red flags that you would need to detain and hold them. There may be some suspicion but you can't just hold the person on suspicion.

HARLOW: But do you believe that coordination is strong enough between, say, a key ally like Turkey and Europe and the United States? That we're getting everything we possibly can?

SEXTON: I think the Turks have approached this with a renewed seriousness now. I think that they recognized, given what happened in France, that counterterrorism cooperation is absolutely essential if someone did transit through Turkey and they ignored those warning signs, obviously whether it was a European country or here at home. In America, if we were hit we'd understandably be very upset about that.

So they're going to share with us whatever they can, but it's drinking from a fire hose. There are so many people moving in and out of that country at any given time and there are also people moving in and out without necessarily going through checkpoints.

HARLOW: Right.

SEXTON: So it's a difficult task to ask any security service, whether it's in Europe or here, to make sure they pick out the one that could be the actual threat or could be the attack.

HARLOW: David, what is your take on that? I mean, given someone who's been an adviser and worked with the administration on sort of the most important allies for the United States right now in this fight.

TAFURI: Well, certainly, France is a very important ally. It was before this attack. This attack is going to link the U.S. and France together even more. When France wants to use its military it can be very effective. We see it's very active in North Africa. There are countries in North Africa that are becoming hot spots of training for potential terrorists and so France is a very important partner especially in North Africa in stabilizing the countries where terrorists could be trained.

HARLOW: David, I wish we had more time. We're going to have you both back a little later to talk more about this. I've got a lot more questions for you. Thank you, both.

And as we continue a key part of the fight against Islamic extremists finding those sleeper cells before they strike. To do that we need allies in these country, but will they trust the police when they ask for help? We'll talk about that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: As European countries seek out terror cells of Islamist extremist trying to break them up, the U.S. fighting this fight, as well. One group they, well, all need to work with very closely is the Muslim community.

So this is a big question. How do counterterrorism officials convince them to work with the government when doing so could make them a prime target?

Let's talk about this with Zunera Mazhar, an iReporter who reached out to CNN about her concerns that the radicals were tarnishing her religion and what frankly she should do as a mother to tell her child. Also joining us again retired Marine Corps General James Williams, former commander of the 4th Marine Division.

Thank you for being here.

Zunera, why don't you tell our viewers a little bit about sort of the predicament that you feel you are in and why you filed this iReport, why you're speaking out.

ZUNERA MAZHAR, MUSLIM IREPORTER: Sure. Thank you so much, Poppy, for having me here. You know, I am originally from Pakistan living in the United States now, and I have to say as a Muslim any time any kind of terror attack happens the whole Muslim community is on the edge because these terrorists are a liability to us. I think we have a moral and ethical responsibility at this point to come out and really say that, you know, this is not our religion.

This is -- this does not represent who we are and the community has really taken it upon themselves to say, OK, we are going to speak up. Sometimes it is hard to find that, you know, on the media because not a lot of voices are being heard, but I am so glad to be a part of this conversation, and that's why I filed that iReport because I was so frustrated just seeing all the time these terrorists coming out and representing Muslim communities when there are so many faces of Islam.

And, you know, they just are expanding on this stereotype that needs to be addressed.

HARLOW: And you said, what do I tell my daughter? How do I explain this to my daughter?

MAZHAR: Absolutely. Because, you know, once again, every time something happens, recently one of my nephews said, did the Muslims do something again, you know. And that's a very hard thing to hear. So it goes back to saying, are we having proper conversations in our communities? Are we having proper conversations online to address these things?

So I was able to talk to my daughter by saying, look, we are a diverse group of individuals just like, you know, in any community there are good people and bad people. This is one of the examples where a lot of bad people have come out and said this is who we are and now it's the responsibility even today when I was coming onboard I told her that, you know, I'm going to CNN to say that this is not how all Muslims are. We are a religion that teaches love, compassion and tolerance for all.

HARLOW: So, General, to that point, what is your take in terms of building the bridges, building the relationships here in America, in Europe, between the Muslim community and law enforcement. Obviously some Muslims are part of law enforcement, as well.

But in terms of being able to fight this fight the best that we can. How important are strengthening those relationships?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES WILLIAMS, U.S. MARINE CORPS. (RET.): Well, they're very important. I mean, I think Zunera makes a great point, is that in all religions you have ideologues, whether they're, you know, good or bad, but ultimately the -- what we should be looking for is the good in every culture and one of the challenges, I think, for law enforcement is that law enforcement has to go out and reach into the communities.

You know, the police forces, for example, that are doing community policing, are doing great jobs to get out in the community, find out what's going on because there is -- there is a source of intelligence that will help them understand what's going on in that community. Sometimes law enforcement may be a little bit isolated in that sense and everybody has perceptions of different cultures.

So the only way to create trust and understanding and cooperation is getting involved with that culture and understanding it.

HARLOW: Do you think -- I mean, obviously you have many lessons from war, right? From fighting war, from leading, from commanding. Are there lessons from the war zone that apply to rooting out terrorists here at home?

WILLIAMS: Well, absolutely, but I'll tell you, in my experience, I've been talking to Muslims all my life and I talk to them every day and not just here in Texas, but all around the world. I have associates in Yemen.

HARLOW: Right.

WILLIAMS: They keep me up-to-date with what's going on there and throughout Europe and so forth, and we have great conversations about what everybody needs to know and sometimes we don't do enough of an effort, whether it's on the media, whether it's with the military, or with the law enforcement officials to reach out to the community and really understand it.

You know, what we have is a conflict between how Christians and some right-wing Christians believe, and some Muslims believe, and maybe we can't have a dialogue. And I think, you know, there's a lot of perceptions about both religions that need to be really understood at a more basic level rather than everybody sort of making up the complaints that they may have, but really understanding what is it that they need to know.

I mean, the radicals are one thing, the -- and then, you know, we have great moderates both in Christian religion, in Hebrew, and the Jewish religion and also in the Muslim world. So we really need to have an understanding about what we really need to understand to prevent the type of terrorist activities that are going on. Remember, it's the young people right now that feel disenfranchised.

HARLOW: Right.

WILLIAMS: And I know you've had many conversations about it and the -- and the disenfranchisement, especially when you look at Europe, you have to go back and look at the history of the Algerian revolution and a lot of that goes back to colonial France and what's happened as they move into Europe.

HARLOW: And --

WILLIAMS: Those are some of the challenges.

HARLOW: It's a very important point, disenfranchisement and what that has meant.

Thank you very much, General. Good to have you on the program.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. Thank you.

HARLOW: Zunera, thank you. Thank you for your iReport and coming out and speaking to us on this topic. We appreciate it.

MAZHAR: Thank you so much for having me here, Poppy.

HARLOW: Of course.

And for all our viewers, you're not going to want to miss our special 9:00 Eastern Monday night, right here on CNN, we take you inside the terrorist attack in Paris and the investigation into what happened. Then after that, "THE WAR WITHIN ISLAM." What can be done to calm violent extremists?

That all starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN Monday night.

Well, Israel strikes Hezbollah, killing a key figure in that group and the battleground was in Syria. We'll tell you what happened straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Israeli helicopters operating inside of Syria killed the son of a late top Hezbollah commander today.

CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, what we know is significant. And that is that Israeli helicopters fired rockets towards what seems to be a group of Hezbollah fighters in their cars just inside Syria in the Golan Heights region.

Hezbollah themselves have released a statement saying they have fighters. They do accept now they have fighters assisting the Syrian regime inside Syria. These fighters were conducting what they say was a survey in a town in the Quneitra Region, and that they were attacked by Israeli helicopters and six people died as a result of that.

Now we understand from a source close to Hezbollah that among those dead is a man called Jihad Mughniyeh, a fighter in his early 20s. He is significant because he is the son of Imad Mughniyeh, one of Hezbollah's most notorious commanders, himself killed in 2008, in a bomb blast in Damascus. But the fact that his son is now dead at the hands of Israeli helicopters shows great symbolism in this one Israeli strike but also shows they have pretty good intelligence unless it was a lucky strike on where top Hezbollah commanders are now.

The key question, how did Hezbollah respond? What kind of reaction are they able to give because they are known to be involved in many different fronts across the Middle East right now, assisting other Shia fighters and militia in the increasingly sectarian violence enveloping this region? And quite what could this mean for peace between Lebanon and Israel -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much for that.

Let's get straight to our guests for their take on what has transpired. David Tafuri, President Obama's foreign -- former foreign -- former campaign foreign policy adviser. I apologize for that. And retired Major General James Williams joining us again.

Let me ask you first, David. What do you make of this in terms of what we see unfolding in Syria, more escalation now? Israel getting ensnarled in this. What is your take?

TAFURI: Well, now we're hearing about another part of the war in Syria that we don't hear a lot about.

HARLOW: Right.

TAFURI: Which is a critical role that Hezbollah is playing as a friend and supporter of the Assad regime. And Hezbollah has substantially increased the number of fighters that they have in Syria and they're very, very actively fighting in Syria primarily against the Islamic State, also against the moderate Syrian forces.

And so Israel has a stake in that. It hasn't been involved in the war in Syria but it does not want Hezbollah --

HARLOW: That's right.

TAFURI: -- to become stronger. That's why Israel took the action that it did, and I think we have to look at now, wonder what will Hezbollah do in response.

Hezbollah has its hands full in the fight against the Islamic State. It probably doesn't want to open up another front with Israel but it can't look weak in response to these attacks.

HARLOW: So, General, given that, I mean, how involved if at all do you think Israel does get in the situation in Syria. We've seen this sort of more isolated incident, but do you think that there is this other side of the battle?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, obviously there's going to be lots of conversations with our counterparts in Israel. You know, the battle with Hezbollah is a blood feud with Israeli's. You know, Hezbollah has vowed to destroy Israel, Israel obviously is not going to let that happen, but at the end of the day the Israelis have to see what's going on with Hezbollah because Hezbollah, as it gets stronger in Lebanon, which obviously is the closest front to the Israelis, you know, they have to be really concerned.

And obviously Syria is another front along the Golan Heights. So, you know, they have to protect the citizenry of Israel and they're going to do that, and they're going to do the things that will disrupt the organization of terrorist activity against them just as we would in the United States.

HARLOW: Gentlemen, thank you, both. Appreciate it. Good to have you on this program, David and General.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Well, in two days the president lays out his agenda in the State of his Union address. That is Tuesday night. He will face a Congress united, but many of them united against him. How should he handle it, find common ground or take no prisoners? We'll talk about that coming up.

But first, maybe you've heard the saying there is nothing new under the sun. When it comes to the State of the Union address, that might be the case. You decide. Take a look at 67 years in 67 seconds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, 42ND PRESIDENT: Speaker, Mr. Vice President.

RONALD REAGAN, 40TH PRESIDENT: Distinguished members --

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, 41ST PRESIDENT: -- of the United States Congress.

GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD PRESIDENT: Members of the Supreme Court.

GERALD FORD, 38TH PRESIDENT: Distinguished guests.

RICHARD NIXON, 37TH PRESIDENT: My fellow Americans.

JOHN F. KENNEDY, 35TH PRESIDENT: I can report to you --

HARRY S. TRUMAN, 33RD PRESIDENT: -- the State of the Union --

CLINTON: -- is strong.

FORD: Think for a minute --

H.W. BUSH: -- how far --

CLINTON:: -- we have --

JIMMY CARTER, 39TH PRESIDENT: -- come --

FORD: -- in 200 years.

NIXON: We find ourselves challenged by new problems --

FORD: -- in this country --

REAGAN: -- at home --

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- and abroad.

DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER, 34TH PRESIDENT: There is demanded of us --

H.W. BUSH: -- vigilance --

CARTER: -- determination --

KENNEDY: -- and dedication.

CLINTON: We must rise --

CARTER: -- to make a nation --

G. BUSH: -- better than --

CLINTON: -- any we have --

OBAMA: -- ever known --

KENNEDY: For the road --

OBAMA: -- has been --

KENNEDY: -- long.

TRUMAN: And the burden --

FORD: -- heavy.

KENNEDY: And the pace --

G. BUSH: -- constantly urgent.

H.W. BUSH: This is not --

G. BUSH: -- going to -- CLINTON: -- be easy.

FORD: We have --

KENNEDY: -- only begun.

TRUMAN: Let us have --

G. BUSH: -- the will --

TRUMAN: -- and the patience --

NIXON: -- to do --

FORD: -- this job --

OBAMA: -- together.

TRUMAN: We need many different kinds of strength --

OBAMA: -- in military --

REAGAN: -- economic --

H.W. BUSH: -- political --

TRUMAN: -- and moral.

REAGAN: Nothing is --

G. BUSH: -- impossible.

REAGAN: No --

CLINTON: -- victory --

REAGAN: -- is beyond our reach. No --

H.W. BUSH: -- glory.

REAGAN: -- will ever be too great.

H.W. BUSH: We are --

FORD: -- Americans.

H.W. BUSH: Part --

OBAMA: -- of something --

G. BUSH: -- larger --

H.W. BUSH: -- than ourselves.

OBAMA: God bless --

REAGAN: -- you --

FORD: -- and God --

G. BUSH: -- bless --

H.W. BUSH: -- the United States --

FORD: -- of America.

CARTER: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Tuesday night's State of the Union address will be a new experience for President Obama, facing a House and a Senate firmly under Republican control. So how will this impact his agenda?

Let's bring in our panel, Mack McLarty, a former adviser to three U.S. presidents -- quite a resume. Also spent time as President Clinton's White House chief of staff. Also joining me here in New York CNN political commentator Buck Sexton and "Washington Examiner" political correspondent Rebecca Berg.

Thank you all for being here.

Mack, let me begin with you. President Clinton had to deal with a GOP-controlled Congress, still productive, a lot of people point to him and say look, the president can follow that lead.

Do you think that the president will and can follow that template?

MACK MCLARTY, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I think he'll strike a bit of a different course. It's a different time. I think he'll both extend a hand and talk about areas where he feels he can cooperate and find common ground with the Republican Congress, but I think he'll also be pretty direct and say these are areas -- some of these areas I'm going to move forward and I hope you'll join me, but if you don't I'm still moving forward. So I think it will be a combination, Poppy.

HARLOW: I mean, Mack, you worked with President Carter and President Bush. You worked with President Clinton. Is that the right approach to take just, you know, to not walk more of a middle ground?

MCLARTY: Well, I'm a strong believer of bipartisanship, but it takes two to tango, to use the old adage. I think there are some areas, the infrastructure, perhaps in tax reform which the president has previewed, certainly in trade. I think there are some areas that he can find common ground with this Republican Congress. I hope he can. That's what the American people, or at least the vast majority of the American people, I feel, want very much.

HARLOW: So let's get to this, right? Because you've got some Republicans speaking out already against what we know so far about the president's tax reform plan. Let's take a quick listen to what Representative Jason Chaffetz had to say this morning on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: It's a non-starter. We're not just one good tax increase away from prosperity in this nation. This nation had its all-time highest, the record number of receipts coming into the Treasury. Are you going to actually grow the economy or jobs or are entrepreneurs going to be better off or small businessmen going to be better off with more taxes and more government? No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, Buck, to you, when we talk about this we just heard, you know, him say -- we just heard our first guest say, Mack, that tax reform is possibly a place where you can have agreement.

SEXTON: Well, not the kind of reform that the president want.

HARLOW: Right.

SEXTON: Which is to raise taxes. There will be absolutely no agreement on that. Nor should there be. I mean, the president has essentially acted like there was no recent midterm election and he's gone from, I think, already setting up. He says he's going to play offense, and what he's setting up for the State of the Union address is essentially that. He's going to try to push forward on things either using executive authority or just essentially trying to browbeat the Republicans into submission. There's really no effort that's been made so far that I think that's truly bipartisan.

HARLOW: So how would the president have to lay out? We all know these past reforms -- what, has it been since '84 that we've had tax reform?

SEXTON: How would the president actually get --

HARLOW: Comprehensive tax reform? How would we get comprehensive tax reform? What should the president say where the Republicans could say OK, maybe we can work with this?

SEXTON: Well, I'm a conservative so I would want him to do the simplification of the entire tax code.

HARLOW: Sure. OK.

SEXTON: If not essentially get rid of the whole thing. The president --

HARLOW: But that's not going to happen either.

SEXTON: There could be some changes that might be made in the corporate tax -- there could be some things they could do that would simplify things there. But again, this is all sorts of small ball. The real agenda items that the president is going for, the things that he's going to focus on in the State of the Union are things like the continuation of the immigration policy he's enacted unilaterally and really he's positioned himself as what I think we'd call the obstructionist in chief. Because for years --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: But what I said is --

SEXTON: -- that the Congress was obstructive.

HARLOW: What I said -- sir, what I said is, is there something that the president could say on tax reform that would get Republicans more onboard? Put him on the same page.

SEXTON: Yes. He can drop -- he can drop tax rates.

HARLOW: OK.

SEXTON: That would -- drop the rate. I think that would work. But other than that --

HARLOW: Rebecca, to you, do you think it is an effective strategy, what we've seen the White House doing over the last week or so, leaking some of these details of the speech so we can talk about them endlessly on the news and the American people can digest them a little bit more before Tuesday night?

REBECCA BERG, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Absolutely. It's important for the president to create buzz before the State of the Union because as we've seen over the past few years, fewer and fewer Americans end up tuning into the broadcast. So when Obama gave his first State of the Union in 2009 more than 50 million people tuned in.

Last time in 2014 it was down to more than 30 million people tuning in so the more buzz that the president can create potentially the more people who will tune in to listen to his message. This is the biggest audience he will get uninterrupted this entire year so it's important for him to be able to deliver this message.

HARLOW: Interesting. I was in Iowa covering the midterm elections so obviously I paid a lot of attention to the candidates there. Joni Ernst will be -- delivering the Republican response. What do we expect from her, Rebecca?

BERG: Well, the Republican response never really makes waves, usually. You're just supposed to not make any big mistakes.

HARLOW: Really?

BERG: Offer a Republican alternative. I mean, think back to Marco Rubio a few years ago when he made that embarrassing gulp of water, and that's all we talked about. So really, you just want to make it out alive, avoid this response curse that some Republicans have had in the past couple of years.

HARLOW: Let's -- go ahead. Finish your thought.

BERG: And overcome this Republican curse and present a, you know, positive face for the Republican Party.

HARLOW: Mack, I'd like your take on that as someone who has had a lot of experience with different presidents with this. You know, it's interesting, she's saying people don't pay a lot of attention to the Republican response. Tara Setmayer and I were talking about this earlier today that it never really makes waves.

Should the sort of the format of it or how it is delivered be changed off more off-the-cuff than written frankly before, likely, the president gives his address?

MCLARTY: Well, there are a number of ways to try to structure it. I think it's pretty sad for the president to give his address and have the response, and I think the new senator from Iowa will get some attention just simply because of her campaign.

HARLOW: Right.

MCLARTY: And the fact that she is a new senator.

Governor Clinton delivered the response to President Bush, I believe, and he did not get rave reviews that particular night, so -- but he certainly got rave reviews as he went forward. So it's important, but I think there will be a lot of back-and-forth over and above just with the State of the Union response, Poppy, but I would say this is an important speech for the president because he's going to be putting down his markers for the last two years.

And it may be, in keeping with what Buck said, he may not get some of this done, but I think he wants to change the debate and discussion and he's likely to do that with some of the proposals he's putting forward.

HARLOW: We'll be watching very closely.

To all three of you, Mack, Buck, and also you, Rebecca, thanks for coming on the program.

Well, the State of the Union address is a tradition. But as we were started talking about, is it overdue for a change? Is it time to rethink the entire speech?

We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: President Obama is spending the next two days putting the finishing touches on his State of the Union address. The White House released this photo of the president working on his speech right there with one of his speech writers.

On Tuesday night he will lay out his agenda. He'll be up, though, against a Republican majority in Congress, a first for this president. Some of those Republicans are already shooting down some of the proposals that have been leaked out by the White House. So is this big speech going to be effective? What are the long-term

effects of it? And frankly, should we change this primetime speech that is the State of the Union?

Let's bring back in our panel to discuss. Mack McLarty, Rebecca Berg and Buck Sexton.

Mack, as someone who has worked with three different presidents, talk to us about the importance of the State of the Union, and frankly, the best way to approach it and if it should be the way that it always is when you've got a lot of these plans leaked out sort of dead on arrival with the Republican in control of both chambers.

MCLARTY: It's a rich tradition and I don't think it can -- should be changed, nor will it be changed, but I think it has to be supplemented and augmented particularly in this age of such instant communication, and I guess what you're seeing the president do. He's already previewed some of it. He likely will go aggressively on the road after the speech, but I still think it's a moment.

And I think it gives him an opportunity, a unique opportunity to really frame the narrative of where he is in his administration, where the country is, and where he's trying to go, and I think he's got a lot to talk about. He'll definitely say the State of the Union is strong and he will say we are moving in the right direction but we must capture the moment. And I think he's likely to mention gas prices and unemployment rates both of which of course --

HARLOW: Right.

MCLARTY: Were in his favor.

HARLOW: 5.6 percent unemployment, gas below $2 in some places.

MCLARTY: Right.

HARLOW: Rebecca, to you, do you agree?

BERG: Well, I do agree that the speech is an important tradition and for that reason alone it's worth keeping, but when you look at the actual significance of the speech in recent years it has diminished greatly. What it's become essentially is a wish list for the president, but the proposals that he names if you look at what he named last year, minimum wage proposals, for example, and the tax reform package that he's hoping to pass this year in announcing his State of the Union speech.

His proposals aren't very realistic. There's no suggestion that Republicans are going to go along with any of these proposals. And so it becomes the sort of vision that he presents to the American people but in terms of the actual results we're going to see from this, not very much.

HARLOW: Buck?

SEXTON: I think the president is going to say the things that he plans on doing. I don't think he's going to do any real outreach to Republicans in the hope that there'd be some sort of issue that they could come together on in the last two years. I just don't see that happening and the very fact that the president waited, for example, for the executive order on amnesty, on immigration until after the midterms I think shows that his plan is to use the EPA which he's going to do very aggressively in the next couple of years.

He's going to go forward with normalizing relations with Cuba if he can, if he can get the Congress to essentially allow that to happen. And I think that that's really what we'll see. The president saying this is what I plan to do over the next few years.

HARLOW: So --

SEXTON: I think these are good ideas, and that's where they're going to leave it. I don't think there's going to be any effort to try to reach across the aisle. I don't think Republicans expect him to nor do they really want him to at this point.

HARLOW: As a conservative, and we heard Rebecca talking about sort of how people, she said, don't pay a lot of attention to the Republican response afterwards or the Democrat response if it's a Republican president, what -- what do you want to hear from Joni Ernst because this is a Republican who proved in her campaign she can really stir the pot?

SEXTON: Well, this is then, I think, transitions us to what's most important about the State of the Union is what the implications are for 2016. I think that's what a lot of people on the policy side and also in terms of the response will be looking at, which is where are the parties positioning themselves now? Because as we know, the race has already started.

We have talked about whether it's going to be Romney or any other host of candidates, and of course the heir-apparent, the presumed nominee, Hillary Clinton. So I think that in the response, which you'd like to see, is the articulation of conservative principles and why this so- called recovery we've had would be better if we had actually done some things differently.

You're talking about tax reform before. Why does the tax code have to be 70,000 pages? These are very straightforward proposition that I think --

HARLOW: Haven't you read the whole entire thing?

SEXTON: I don't think anyone's read -- I don't think even the people that are writing the tax code could have read the whole thing. So I think those are some of the issues where you could see Republicans -- and also, by the way on national security.

HARLOW: Yes. Well, that's got to be said.

SEXTON: The administration is very -- very vulnerable on national security.

HARLOW: That -- I think we're going to hear that right out of the gate from the president.

Thank you, guys. Good to have you on the program.

We're going to take a quick break. Of course, you're going to want to watch CNN State of the Union coverage. It starts 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN, be sure to join us for complete coverage of the president's speech to the nation.

The White House did something this past week you won't see very often. It admitted that it made a mistake. Was that the right move? We're going to discuss that next.

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HARLOW: Now to the politics of saying sorry. Secretary of State John Kerry was in Paris Friday with a hug for the country's president. Also, a very famous song, "You've Got a Friend," performed by James Taylor.

This following earlier criticism for the U.S. not sending a higher ranking officer to last week's March for Unity in Paris. White House press secretary Josh Earnest admitted that was a mistake. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Some have asked whether or not the United States should have sent someone with a higher profile than the ambassador to France, and I think it's fair to say that we should have sent someone with a higher profile to be there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's talk about this now with Mack McLarty, he joins me again, chairman of McLarty Associates, also an international strategic adviser. Also he is a former Clinton White House chief of staff, worked also with President Bush and President Carter.

Mack, given your experience in Washington with presidents, with the administrations, what are your thoughts on John Kerry's trip, the attempts to really show, show complete support for France.

MCLARTY: Well, Poppy, first, I think that the larger point here is this tragedy in France. France is our longest ally, they stood so strong with us on 9/11, so I think first of all our hearts go out to the French people, and I think that's the context here. I think the White House did the right thing in this case, acknowledging that they wished they would have done it differently. We would have had someone there.

I think had the president gone it would have caused a lot of security issues and how you would handle that. But I think in fairness, in fairness, to put this in perspective, the president did call President Hollande immediately. He went to the French embassy and I think Secretary Kerry was in a very important meeting in India and Pakistan on terrorism. So I think in terms of the relationship, I don't see any damage there and there's close cooperation between France and the United States.

But, yes, I think in this case it would have been better had we been able or had we sent a high-ranking official to what turned out to be a very meaningful moment.

HARLOW: It was an incredible sight to see, but, you know, we had German Chancellor Angela Merkel there. You had -- you had the sort of the top presence from Israel there. You had David Cameron there. So -- and we have heard a lot of people say such a security concern for the president of the U.S. to go.

Why is it any different for him to go than those leaders? Why would that have made things that much different security wise?

MCLARTY: Well, I think, likely, the president of the United States has a little bit of a different security standard than most other world leaders. It probably would have complicated things but I think, again, Josh Earnest spoke I think in a thoughtful manner to say in retrospect we wish we'd done this.

But, Poppy, if you look back almost every presidency, Republican or Democrat, have had a moment where something was not handled quite in the way they would have liked, and I think that's what has happened here, but we should not lose, in my opinion, the larger issue at hand which is our solidarity with the French people, the tragedy and fighting terrorism. That's -- and cooperating with our allies in that regard, that's really the center point.

HARLOW: That's a very important point. It is center point.

And as former President Clinton's White House chief of staff, can you give us a sense of who makes these decisions in the White House? How these decisions are made and finally decided OK, we're not going to send the president, we're going to send this person, we need to send, you know, Secretary of State John Kerry afterwards?

MCLARTY: Well, one of the things in any White House and it's really gotten more accelerated over time is just the pace of these decisions, and they, of course, run a large gamut of decisions but normally a decision of this type would have come through some of the Security Council and the State Department, so forth, and I'm sure it was considered.

I think, again, hindsight is a great substitute for judgment, so I think -- I think it's fair to criticize or to say we should have had someone there, I think that's fair. And the White House has acknowledged that. But again I think the larger context is very important here.

HARLOW: Yes.

MCLARTY: And I know that our cooperation with the French, the Germans and others on security measures is very robust and very strong. HARLOW: Well, it's a very important point because we did see, you

know, a high-ranking member of the French government coming out just in the moments after those criticisms started being laid saying, look, the U.S. has been by our side in this all along. That stood out a lot to me.

Finally, I want to get your take on James Taylor going with John Kerry, playing that song. What did you think?

MCLARTY: Well, I'm a fan of James Taylor, so I'm probably not an objective commentator. But look --

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: Who isn't? Who isn't a fan of James Taylor?

MCLARTY: Yes. And Secretary of State Kerry is very -- you know, has such a great reputation in France. He's really beloved by the French people so I think his presence there meant a lot. It was a poignant moment. I think an appropriate song and James Taylor is also an international figure. And of course, on a more serious note again, the White House is convening this terror summit that will have leaders from all over the world as well as local officials in the United States.

I think that will be a very important meeting. I think as far as James Taylor, I know he wanted to get that microphone to work a little better in his performance.

HARLOW: You always have little snafus no matter how big of a star you are.

Mack McLarty, it has been so nice to have you on the program with us this evening. So I hope you'll come back soon.

MCLARTY: Poppy, thank you very much. It's been my pleasure.

HARLOW: All right. We're going to take a quick break and we're going to have a little fun on the other side. Here are two names you don't hear together that often. House Speaker John Boehner and pop sensation Taylor Swift. But they were united for one magical moment in a virtual criticism of a White House proposal.

We will explain next.

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HARLOW: All right. It's been a really tough weather weekend coast to coast. We've got flood warnings that include Philadelphia, New York City -- miserable weather here in New York. We still got some freezing rain in New Hampshire and Maine, and many winter weather warnings will not expire until tomorrow.

Take a look at the conditions on the road in Baker City, Oregon, this weekend. Up to 70 vehicles were involved in this pileup. Officials blaming black ice for that. Also take a look at this guy. This is a miraculous story. Wedged

between two tractor trailers in Baker City after his pickup slid into a jack knifed semi. His truck was crushed. Believe it or not he was not even injured.

You can hear his story of survival and amazing story. You're going to want to hear from him tomorrow on CNN's "NEW DAY" tomorrow morning.

Right about now House Speaker John Boehner is probably thinking Taylor Swift should just shake it off. She's reportedly not that happy that Boehner used online gifts of her to illustrate why President Obama's call for free community college is, according to Boehner, a bad idea.

Rebecca Berg, political correspondent for the "Washington Examiner" joins me now.

Rebecca, so this is like a bunch of dancing, moving Taylor Swifts with points about why the president's idea to have free community college for everyone for two years is a bad idea. What did -- what did you make of it? A very different approach.

BERG: A very different approach. Not usually the first thing that you think of when you think of Taylor Swift. Speaker Boehner really doesn't come to my mind when I'm listening to her songs, but what this shows is that the target audience for the president's proposal on community colleges is young college-age adults, and how do you get through to this target audience?

Well, the president after his State of the Union speech is going to do interviews with YouTube personalities, and I guess this is Speaker Boehner's way of hoping to get through to this younger audience with gifts.

HARLOW: So however I do this? Thumbs up, thumbs down? Is it a good move?

BERG: That's good. Yes. I like it. I like it.

HARLOW: Did you like -- did you think Boehner, was it a good move, Rebecca?

(LAUGHTER)

BERG: I think it worked. I'm -- because just the fact that we're talking about this now shows that it was -- it was effective. It got the speaker attention, it got his message attention, his message, of course, that he and the president are never, ever, ever going to reach an agreement of this community college plan.

HARLOW: Never ever, ever.

Very quickly, 30 seconds, the president, after the State of the Union, is going to be interviewed by these three YouTube sensations. I haven't seen something like that before. What do you make of that?

BERG: It's not something that's a complete surprise coming out of this White House. Of course the president had an interview with Zach Galifianakis on his Web show "In Between Two Ferns."

HARLOW: Right.

BERG: So president has done things like this before but this is brand new. These are YouTube personalities who have nothing to do with politics or the political world. One of them is a young woman who does lifestyle videos, one is a comedian, so it's very diverse, but he is trying to reach out to a new audience and of course the State of the Union doesn't have the audience on television that it used to.

HARLOW: Right.

BERG: So this is one way to get more people to hear the president's message.

HARLOW: Sure. And they certainly have a ton of followers.

Rebecca, great to have you on the program. Thank you for coming in tonight. We appreciate it.

That will do it for us here. Stay with CNN and CNN.com for breaking news any time.

Coming up next, a CNN special report, "THE O.J. TRIAL, DRAMA OF THE CENTURY." It is fantastic by our Kyra Phillips. You're not going to want to miss that one. And spend the rest of your night with "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN."

I'm Poppy Harlow, thanks so much for being with me. Have a great week.