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Widening Web of Terror Cells; U.S Closely Watching Violence in Yemen; Five Terror Suspects Arrested in Belgium; DNA Links Two People to Kosher Store Gunman; French Intel Failed on Brothers; European Leaders Meeting in Brussels

Aired January 19, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm John Berman. New arrests reveal a widening web of suspected terror cells all across Europe. In Belgium, five more people now charged with participating in a terrorist organization.

Several arrests also in Greece. Among them, an Algerian man who was wanted in connection with a jihadist cell that Belgium police raided last week. Belgium is now seeking his extradition.

In France, two others are in custody. They were arrested while trying to cross into Italy. Plus, the French are looking for two other people whose DNA was found on a gun magazine and a car belonging to Amedy Coulibaly. He of course is the man who killed four people at the kosher grocery store in Paris. He also killed a police officer.

But we're going to start with some new information about Yemen this morning. CNN has learned the U.S. military is prepared to evacuate the American embassy there on short notice.

Why? Right now a fragile cease-fire is in place in that country, although there are still sounds of gunfire. Clashes erupted outside the presidential palace this morning. The government in Yemen says it's battling a coup attempt. The big concern for the United States is that al Qaeda could take advantage of the chaos. In fact, there are signs it already has.

The al Qaeda affiliate in Yemen has claimed responsibility, of course, for the attack on "Charlie Hebdo," the satirical newspaper in Paris, and there are fears that al Qaeda in Yemen could be gaining recruits by the day.

We want to go straight now to Barbara Starr, live at the Pentagon. Barbara, the U.S. does have an embassy in Yemen. We understand there have been moments of chaos in the streets there. How high is the level of concern?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTQAGON CORRESPONDENT: The level of concern is extraordinarily significant today, John, of course.

This cease-fire may or may not hold. It may hold for a while. That doesn't really lessen the concern.

Now, let's be clear. There's no order to evacuate the embassy. The State Department has not asked for military help, but nonetheless, with the situation in Yemen, the U.S. military for the last several weeks has kept a warship off the coast. It has helicopters, other aircraft that could quickly get to the capital, evacuate the embassy if the State Department wanted that to happen.

No sign of it yet. The embassy appears to be, the area around it appears to be relatively calm in the area around it. But Yemen, the capital of Sanaa, raging gun battles today near the presidential palace. Firefights across the city in many sections as Shia Houthi rebels, backed by Iran, challenge the government there, a very fragile government, for control.

If the government cannot hold on, if the cease-fire doesn't hold, the concern of course is the country disintegrates and then the al Qaeda elements there have much more room, of course, to maneuver and to plot and plan.

The Houthies, not clear that they even want to take control of the government, but they do want to have unrest and violence and instability across that country. That is very clear. And if that continues to happen, that is all to the plus column for al Qaeda there.

John?

BERMAN: Of course, Barbara, we have seen in the past terrorist groups love a power vacuum. It allows them to set up inside a country and almost run unchecked. We saw it in Afghanistan over the last 15, 20 years. We see it in Syria right now.

How concerned is the U.S. government that this could be happening as we speak in Yemen?

BARBARA STARR: I think the belief across most of the U.S. intelligence community, the Pentagon, the State Department, this trend is already under way in Yemen.

A good deal of concern about it, and one of the problems is the unrest is so bad that if you ask the Pentagon is there anything you can do, can you offer the military of Yemen any help, can you give them equipment, can you give them training, they'll tell you that the country is in such unrest and such turmoil, they can't even send in U.S. troops to help train, advise, assist, what we've seen in so many other countries.

The level of violence, the level of unrest is so bad there right now, the U.S. is finding itself virtually with its hands tied. There's one other element, and this is known, and we're not revealing anything here, there are U.S. commando teams in the region. They are able and ready to move in if some disaster were to strike the U.S. embassy there.

The feeling is the embassy is very well protected. It's got about a hundred Marines there. The issue is, if they want to pack up and go, if that order comes to shutter the embassy, embassy, can they get everyone out? Can they get them out quickly?

John?

BERMAN: Watching it very closely now, right where you are in the Pentagon and also the State Department, I am sure. Barbara, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Let's go now to Belgium, a country described as having more jihadist per capita than any other nation in western Europe. Belgian authorities have arrested five terror suspects.

I want to bring in our Phil black from Brussels. Phil, what's the latest there?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Greek authorities have arrested two men based on information supplied by Belgian investigators.

Of those two men, the Belgian investigators say they want one of them, want to bring him back here, extradite him to Belgium, because they believe he was involved in the terror plot they say they disrupted last Thursday while conducting raids across the country.

He's a 33-year-old Algerian man. Beyond that, investigators here are not saying what role they suspect he played in the plot.

You're right. Five other people here in Belgium have been charged. One of them was a man who survived a shootout with police in the town of Verviers, Thursday night. Two other terror suspects were killed in that shootout.

We've learned a little bit more about the survivor who was arrested. He's a 25-year-old Belgian man of Moroccan descent. Maduan El Bali (ph), his name, because his lawyer has spoken to us, and his lawyer says that his client insists he has nothing to do with the terror plot whatsoever, that he was only in that property at the time because he was doing a favor for his mother.

He was dropping off a pair of shoes to one of the men in that property, one of the men who was later killed by police in the shootout. He says he was there. The shooting started. He claims the police started shooting first, and he escaped only by jumping out the window where he was then arrested.

He insists he has nothing to do with international terrorism, he's never been to Syria, anything like that, but he remains in custody, and like those five other people in this country, he's been charged with preparing a terror attack, John.

BERMAN, there was a high level of concern when these arrests were made at the end of last week that there could be operational cells planning to attack police or perhaps others inside Belgium.

What's the level of concern today, and what precautions are being taken?

BLACK: The authorities here are still concerned. That's why the threat terror level remains elevated. That's why we have Belgium shoulders on the streets, Brussels and the northern city of Antwerp as well. Numbers are not huge. Three hundred or so are being deployed. Compare that to the thousands of soldiers that are being deployed in France.

But it's still a very striking image here on the streets of this European city. They are guarding European Union institutions, government buildings, and key Jewish sites as well.

It is thought that there could still be a threat. The investigation is still very much ongoing into the plot that's been disrupted. It would seem that the authorities are still looking for individuals they believe were involved, and so we are seeing this elevated level of security for at least the coming weeks before it will be reviewed.

John?

BERMAN: All right. Phil Black for us, live in Belgium, thanks so much.

Now, we're going to move to the new developments in Paris. Police are looking for two people whose DNA was found on the belongings of the kosher supermarket gunman, Amedy Coulibaly.

We'll check in with our reporter there, Jim Bittermann, as soon as we get them. But that of course is -- I understand now we do have Jim Bittermann, live for us in Paris.

And, Jim, Amedy Coulibaly, investigators have been poring through his belongings and his apartment looking for any connection to anyone else who may have been involved in that attack, either the planning or the logistics of it.

Now they're following up on DNA traces found, at least two people here. What can you tell us?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Those two people are unknown to police at this moment. They are going to be looking for them because they found DNA on the weapons magazine, the gun magazine, that was used by Coulibaly.

The other DNA, part of the DNA that they found, was in the car that Coulibaly used to go to the kosher supermarket. The keys to that car were found in his pocket after he was shot dead by police. But there was DNA in the car. So they're not clear exactly on what the link might be, whether these people were directly involved or whether it was just a question of having had an acquaintance with Coulibaly.

But they're in fact wanting to know everybody involved with Coulibaly at this point. They have had, as you know, since Friday morning, they had first 12 and now it's down to nine people who have been in custody of they police, and they're being questioned, very thoroughly questioned.

Those remaining nine that are being questioned, by tomorrow morning, they're going to have to either be charged or released. The police have, under French law, they have 96 hours in which time to talk to people without a lawyer and can hold them in custody in terrorism cases.

And so we'll know tomorrow morning whether there are going to be further charges in this case. Some may be released. Some may be charged. We just don't know at this point.

BERMAN: And, Jim, this morning there are new questions about the missed signals from French authorities on the Kouachi brothers, really over the years. They had them under surveillance. They drop surveillance. They had information given to them by Americans. They didn't follow up on it, or at least not in the right way.

What are you learning this morning?

BITTERMANN: Exactly that. One of the tips about the Kouachi brothers came from the United States back in 2011, and so they did begin surveillance of the two brothers in 2011, but only on their cell phones apparently, according to our sources, and not on their computers and not on their wives and girlfriends' cell phones.

So, as a consequence, they weren't getting a complete picture. And then they watched them from 2011 to 2013, in the younger brother's case, 2014 in the older brother's case, but surveillance was dropped.

And to understand how this works in France. There's a number of different intelligence agencies -- sounds a little bit like the United States -- a number of different intelligence agencies, and there's one agency that's charged with actually doing the surveillance, and it's supposed to turn over the information to everybody else.

Well, in February of 2014, they in fact got information that something might be up from one of the Kouachi brothers' cell phones, but the information was not passed along until June of 2014, and by that time they had dropped off the radar of the domestic intelligence agency.

BERMAN: Sounds like the silos of information in intelligence that the U.S. had to deal with after 9/11. Sounds like France will be doing that in the days and weeks ahead.

Jim Bittermann, thanks so much.

So what is the next target for terror groups, and what is the U.S. doing to stop a possible attack before it happens?

Plus, what is it like to be part of a terror cell? We'll speak to a former jihadist, next.

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BERMAN: European leaders gathered in Brussels today, focused on increased law enforcement cooperation among allies, also cooperating with Arab nations as well.

This meeting comes as soldiers line the streets of Belgium along with police to counter potential terror attacks. In fact, security has been stepped up across Europe in response to sweeping counterterrorism operations in France and Belgium. This all following the attacks in Paris. Now officials are looking for connections between the terror cells across Europe.

Want to bring in CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank. Paul, you are focused in right now on, perhaps, one person who could be a key connection. A man who is on the run and authorities are looking for him as a possible link between these cells in Belgium, men who may or may not have been to Syria, and ISIS itself in Syria.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That's right. I've been told by senior Belgium counterterrorism official that there is a big manhunt for this individual described as a Belgian ISIS operative who traveled from Syria to Greece and when he was in Greece, he was running this cell in Belgium. He was in touch with them and he's also believed to be in touch back to the ISIS leadership. The Belgians think this is an ISIS directed plot and that this guy who was in Greece is the key guy running the show from there. They brought the CIA and the Greek police in to try and find him last week but they were not able to find him. The Greeks have got one person now in custody who has been extradited back to Belgium. I think the indications at this point is that it's not the key guy, somebody else that they may be interested in in connection to this plot. So a big manhunt for this guy, a kind of key middleman link person organizing this.

BERMAN: And of course, that's been one of the key questions here. Everyone is looking for possible links to ISIS behind these groups in Belgium mostly, and one of the questions is how directly are they running the show right now? How directly is ISIS running these cells inside Belgium and perhaps other countries inside western Europe? Any clue?

CRUICKSHANK: Well I think the fact that there was this key link person in Greece who was in touch both with ISIS leadership and with this cell in Belgium suggests that there is some command and control from the ISIS leadership. That's a surprise from quite a lot of people. They thought they may get these European recruits. They have about 1,000 Europeans in their ranks to travel back, go and do something --

BERMAN: Yeah, send them home, send them a gun, send them $10,000, go attack people. But what you're saying now is there is someone actually directing them possibly on the ground?

CRUICKSHANK: That's more of an al Qaeda style international terror plot kind of model here that ISIS seems to be following. So that's a game changer. European intelligence agencies have detected a pivot from ISIS toward encouraging these Europeans to return back to Europe to launch attacks in retaliation for the airstrikes against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Of course, several European countries, Britain, France, Denmark, Holland, and Belgium involved in those airstrikes in Iraq. Those countries probably particularly at risk. They believe that groups of young men who are now back in Europe who have come back from spending time with ISIS in Syria who may at a certain point go operational. They're not sure what plans, if any, that they have. This intelligence -- It's all about fragments of information. It's more like an art than a science. They are scrambling to understand the nature of the threat right now.

BERMAN: Quickly, there's the ISIS threat and there's also al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. The threat from Yemen right now, and right now before our very eyes in Yemen we are looking at chaos in the streets. Something that feels very much like a civil war. Terror groups love that. That's an environment where they thrive.

CRUICKSHANK: They absolutely thrive. And AQAP, the group in Yemen connected to the "Charlie Hebdo" attack, they're definitely thriving right now. There is complete political chaos throughout Yemen. The government is not focused on the al Qaeda threat there. They're focused on survival. The Houthis, the Shia rebel group, took control of most of the capital, Sana and Autumn. There has been fighting between the Houthis and Sana and the government right now. And al Qaeda are making use of the Shia sectarian issue for recruitment amongst Sunni tribals. They're expanding their ranks throughout the country, getting more powerful. What's their biggest priority they say? Attacking the United States. They'll have more resources to attack America.

BERMAN: A crucial, pivotal time right there and signs that the situation on the ground is getting worse. Paul Cruickshank, great to have you here with us this morning. Thank you very much.

Tonight CNN's going to take an in-depth look at the battle against terrorism. Two "SPECIAL REPORT"s at 9:00 P.M. Jake Tapper goes "Inside the Paris Attacks." And at 9:30, "NEW DAY"'s Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota anchor "The War Within Islam." They'll take a look at what could be done to try to quell violent extremism. These are important, interesting specials. I encourage you to all to watch.

Alright coming up for us next, what is it like to be inside a terror cell? One man who knows, a former Jihadist, now on the other side. I'll speak with him next.

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BERMAN: Europe is on high alert this morning with spreading concern over the threat of terror cells. Officials are afraid as many as 20 have been activated and ready to strike. (INAUDIBLE) I speak with say there could be far more than 20 cells operational in Europe right now. The question is, how do these cells work? Where do they get their orders? And what is it like to be on the inside? Joining me to discuss this is someone who knows.

Mubin Shaikh is a former Jihadist, now a counterterrorism operative, and author of the book "Undercover Jihadi." And Mubin, I'm curious. Is there anything really like a typical terror cell? What is a typical terror cell?

MUBIN SHAIKH, AUTHOR, UNDERCOVER JIHADI: It's difficult to know exactly. Even if you say there are 20 cells, as soon as those cells are known cells, and there are most definitely unknown cells. As Clint Watts, expert as well, talked about networked attacks, directed attacks, and inspired attacks. With the network attacks, you have people bringing their shared expertise coming together from different groups and launching their attack. You have directed attacks, which are a person brings in guys, trains them, funds them, selects a target, sends them out to do the target. And then you have the inspired attacks that we've been seeing a lot from ISIS types. Messaging is put out that, you know, attack these targets or these people and some want-to-be or lone wolf or loon wolf decides to go and act on that messaging. You have individuals and groups from all three of these categories.

BERMAN: What we see in Belgium right now are these groups of people who perhaps return from ISIS and may be getting orders. How many people are in a cell? What is it made up of? Is there a leader? Are we talking 5 to 10 people with one leader and one middleman?

SHAIKH: You can have any kind of combination. There's a nice useful chart put out by @intelwire, J.M. Berger, who looks at how they operate online anyway, looking at their accounts and how you have bought accounts and fake accounts and you have accounts linked to known ISIS accounts. On the ground in the world, those unit sizes could range from - you could have a two-man unit, a ten-man unit, you could have within that 10-man unit, two other units. You're always going to have a support network, logistics, operational, division of responsibilities.

BERMAN: And what do these cells do on a day-to-day basis? Do they try to blend in to the society around them?

SHAIKH: Of course. The idea is to not be a heat score, basically. Don't get caught. Don't raise any issues that might draw attention to yourself from either members of your own community or members of non- Muslims around you that you are living with, working with. This is a really almost like a professional level of denial and deception of intelligence works. Spies do the exact same thing. They pretend they are employees, academics, journalists, whatever it is, and the point is to hide out, of course.

BERMAN: A professional level of denial and deception. Do these groups, for the most part - I understand there are all different kinds - But what's going on in Europe right now, again in Belgium and France, do they take orders from somewhere or right now is there a greater fear that they are more autonomous?

SHAIKH: There is a greater fear that they're more autonomous. Certainly, the messaging put out by ISIS and al Qaeda has been to be more autonomous. But some of them may well be in touch with leaders or direct handlers, so to speak. You will see a mix of these two categories.

BERMAN: Alright, Mubin Shaikh for us, thank you so much for this insight. A man who has been on the inside and outside providing a key perspective. Really appreciate it.

The attacks in Paris, the terror cells in Belgium, a key question facing U.S. officials right now, could it happen in America? Does the same threat exist here? That's ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)