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Peaceful Protests from Broadway Heading Towards Foley Square; Clint Eastwood's Latest Directorial Effort Broke Box Office Records; Report Says New England Patriots Cheated in Yesterday's AFC Championship Game; Former North Korean Prisoner Admits Bending the Truth in His Memoir

Aired January 19, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Today, the nation paused to honor the memory of civil rights legend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Cities across the country held marches, parades and community service programs to honor Dr. King's work.

Yesterday Oprah Winfrey and other cast members marched across the bridge, the site of bloody Sunday. The 50th anniversary of that event is this March along with the voting rights of the march that Dr. King led from Selma to Montgomery.

And in Washington, the president and first lady attended a community service day project at the boys and girls club.

Right now in New York, here's a look at peaceful protests that are on Broadway heading towards Foley Square, I believe. These protesters are demanding justice in the death of Eric Garner, an African-American man at the hands of a white police officer.

Our Alina Machado is there. She has been amongst the crowd as it marches.

Alina, tell is a little bit about the mood there.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Brianna, as you mentioned, the protesters have been demanding justice for Eric Garner and also Michael Brown and other black men who lost their lives. And want to show just kind of what we are seeing here. This is the crowd that we are seeing here. We are seeing about anywhere from 200 to 300 people. And as you mentioned, these protest started over at Union Square. These protesters are walking Broadway street.

You look over here. Let me show you to my right. There is a line of police officers, New York City police officers who are keeping protesters on the street, but away from traffic. These people are marching down the street headed towards Foley Square.

Brianna, things are peaceful. Things are quiet and things are relatively organized.

KEILAR: As you have been talking to people there, Alina, are thy are making -- what kind of connection are they making between this day with such an important day in American history? And really, what they are fighting for and what they want to be heard on?

MAHCADO: Yes, I mean, their whole point is that black lives matter, and not just black lives, but also brown lives. And they are taking the day like today, an historic day like today to make that point. That's why you are seeing signs about different people who lost their lives. There is also a sign over there saying end police brutality. And this is kind of what we have been seeing here all afternoon, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Alina Machado. Thanks for taking us inside of that march.

Let's talk about our next story. Clint Eastwood's latest directorial effort breaking box office records. American sniper starring Bradley Cooper has already raked in over $90 million, fuelled no doubt by six Oscar nods.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask you a question, Chris. Would you be surprised if I told you that the Navy has credited you with over 160 kills?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The film is about former Navy SEAL, Chris Kyle who you see here played by Bradley Cooper. This is before his violent death in 2013. Klye was hailed as a hero and called the deadliest sniper in U.S. military history.

But this man, Oscar-winning documentary maker, Michael Moore, he set off a bit of a firestorm with the tweet that he sent after the film's opening. He said quote "my uncle killed by a sniper in World War II. We were thought they were cowards, will shoot you in the back. Snipers aren't heroes and invaders are worse."

Well that caused a flurry of angry backlash. People called Moore un- American. They accused him of bashing the military, the movies and Chris Kyle's memory. And that prompted him to tweet this today. He said I never tweeted one word about American sniper Chris Kyle. I said my uncle was killed by sniper in World War II. Only cowards would kill my uncle and others. More went on to praise the film's acting although certainly taking some issue with it as well.

And joining me to talk about this is former Navy SEAL and train military sniper Cade Courtley.

So Cade, you have been what Michael Moore said that his day who was a Vet though him the sniper don't believe in a fair fight. That is just inst right. I mean, he seems to also be making the point that this is a day to honor Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. who was killed by a sniper. But at the same time, you read those tweets and it is very easy to make a connection between what he said and also American sniper. What's your reaction to it? CADE COURTLEY, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Well, I would like to consider his

tweet. I mean, this is a great opportunity to explain something at most people already understand. Now, war is the worst case scenario, OK? And when we go to war, everything else is falling apart. So that is when we have to utilize folks like the armed forces.

And when are given the job, you know, we don't decide when and where. That's what politicians and elected officials do. We are given the job and only two things matter at that point, mission success and taking care of our buddies. And no one exemplifies that better than Chris Kyle.

Can you imagine, if everybody that had to go over to Iraq or Afghanistan was able to kill 160 of the enemy and protect at least 20 times that in their own guys. Those two wars would have been over in a year.

So for anybody -- look. It might have been indirect are but for somebody who spent their entire career on freedom of speech and freedom of expression, to be criticizing an individual like Chris Kyle who exemplifies the very best, well, it is like that is really biting the hand that feeds you. But as you well know, he probably does a lot of crewing anyway.

KEILAR: I know you were certainly a fan of what he said. And I have seen the film. I thought it was very good. I also think that the film certainly portrayed through the prism that you just were just talking about which was -- and you this in Chris Kyle in the movie. The thing that is most concerned about is saving his buddies as you put it. And you don't necessary see the kind of commentary about the war. He is there to do his job. And it is to save his friends. And he said he feels guilty that he couldn't save them all.

Michael Moore also tweeted. He said but if you are on the roof of your home defending it from invader who is come 7,000 miles, you are not a sniper. You are brave. You are a neighbor. That seems to be a direct comment on American sniper where you have an antagonist who is an Iraqi sniper where he sort of pointing, you know, you certainly have this face off between an Iraqi and American sniper. I mean, do you think he was talking about American sniper or do you think he was talking about MLK day where MLK was taken out by a sniper.

COURTLEY: I think it is a prime example of a guy who is trying to stir the pot because he is staring at a dead career. Absolutely, he was taking a quote "shot" at American sniper. Again, the job of a sniper, they are called a force multiplier. And what that means is the job that one or two men, highly trained snipers can do can be equivalent to the destruction of an enemy of a much, much larger friendly force.

And again, like I said earlier, the job that Chris did, you know, repeatedly and voluntarily if that is not the absolute definition of courage, and I know Michael Moore used courage or lack of courage in his tweet,. And I would love to know what his definition of courage is probably going a day without eating. KEILAR: You really don't like him. And I certainly understand it

coming from your perspective. But I want to give you sort of a chance to -- I think talk to people and even people who are very critical of the war in Iraq and about this film and about how it portrays Chris Kyle. What do you want them to take away from it?

COURTLEY: That's the amazing thing about America. Everybody can have an opinion and everybody can express that opinion without getting a thousand lashes like in some countries. Bit what people need to understand is what I said earlier. The armed forces in the military, we are merely instruments of policies and decisions that are made by elected officials and politicians. We are just the instruments. We are told what to do and we don't it. We don't pick the place, we don't pick the time, we don't pick the enemy. We are given a job and we go out and do it.

And so, please, folks, remember the last thing that somebody in the military is thinking about is the politics of it. They are thinking about the mission and taking care of the boys and trying to get home to see their families like Chris did.

And so, yet again, folks, these amazing privileges that we have in this country and the thing that makes this country so exceptional. These guys that are going-over there and doing that. They are giving us this. They are keeping this alive.

KEILAR: Yes. You see that in the movie so much that he is trying to get back to his family and also this train of the experience puts on his family.

Can you also speak a little bit about something that I thought was really poignant in the movie and that was once a soldier's war is over and a soldier comes back, then there is still another war in a way. And you saw that and Chris Kyle was killed by someone suffering from PTSD. Can you speak to that as well?

COURTLEY: Well, honestly, it's great that we have gone from, you know, there is no such thing as PTSD to, you know, really taking a good hard look at it. A little bit may be going too far to the other side when somebody is having issues from sleeping and whatever, it's PTSD. We got to be careful and it happens way too far the other way.

That said, you know, a guy like Chris was put in situations that most human beings are not supposed to seek and deal with. And order to be effective, you have to able to compartmentalize those situations. And it is easier said than done when, OK, have come out of that. Now I'm home and with the family and I'm with the kids.

Ad turning out on and off is a challenge. It can't be easy to do all the time this fairly. But you find out how to work through that. And Chris worked with veterans all the time. Unfortunately that also contributed to his death which is so tragic, especially given the fact that the veteran he was working with apparently never really deployed into a hostile territory. Sp PTSD are completely screwed up and it's a tragic thing and Chris, we miss you, buddy. KEILAR: Yes, I know, you do. And you bring a real unique perspective

for this. I really appreciate you coming on to talk about it. Cade Courtley.

COURTLEY: It is my pleasure.

KEILAR: Thank you.

The NSA may have had its eyes on North Korea well before the Son hack. We have details from a new report next.

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KEILAR: There is a new wrinkle between to the cyber spying stuff between the U.S. and North Korea. And we are learning a bit more about how Washington could be so sure that North Korea was responsible for the massive hack of Sony pictures.

In apparent response to the controversial comedy "The Interview," according to the "New York Times," the NSA has hacked into North Korean computers perhaps as early as 2010.

Let's find out more now from Pentagon correspondent Barbara Star.

Barbara, you know, many found it sort of uncharacteristic that the U.S. would publicly name North Korea as the cyber culprit. But now we are getting an idea perhaps of why they did if this report in the Time Times is true.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Exactly right, Brianna. The "New York Times" reporting that it began back in 2010 when the National Security Agency, the U.S. crypt the logic essentially eavesdropping part of the U.S. government began a very secret program to tap into North Korea's cyber's space.

North Korea's Internet access goes through China. So apparently, according to "the New York Times," the U.S. secretly inserted some Malware into the Chinese system allowing them to monitor what the North Koreans were up to.

Now, back in 2010, this was clearly all about trying to get as much information as they could out of North Korea, figuring out how their cyber hacking program which was quite substantial was working and how it moved through the Chinese system and then out into cyberspace.

By all accounts, this is what initially drew the U.S. to be able to understand that it was North Korea that hacked into Sony. You know, as you say it was so unusual, the U.S. was so definitive, so precise. How could they have known it?

This apparently was the root that led them to come to this understanding exactly. When they knew is a little bit unclear because most of the activity took place before the U.S. came to this absolute conclusion that it was North Korea. So they may not have caused about it. It has to know. But they still believe despite some skeptics, that they did catch them, that it was North Korea hacking into Sony -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, in particular, there was one this outside firm who thought maybe it was some former a disgruntled Sony employee. They actually briefed officials in the administration. And we still kept hearing from the administration, no, it is North Korea, if we have more information than this firm has.

So you said they may not have caught this soon enough, what North Korea was doing. But if NSA had the information, is it possible they could have warned Sony?

STARR: I think that is a little unclear at this point because if they had, then it would have sort of -- and we don't really know the answer to be clear. It would have unveiled one of the country's, again, most secret, most eavesdropping hacking programs, whatever you want to call it, the NSA being able to hack in through North Korea through China. Clearly, one the crown jewels in the U.S. intelligence because it's impossible to really any other way to find out very much about what's going on inside North Korea.

You know, the U.S. has satellites overhead. They have these cyber spying programs but no U.S. personnel on the ground and nobody that can rely and tell them what the regime is up to. So I don't know that the U.S. would have done it for a commercial enterprise like Sony Pictures. And to be clear, the U.S. government, the U.S. intelligence community, still not officially acknowledging what the "New York Times" has reported.

KEILAR: Yes. And maybe not even very pleased that their methods are out there. We know that sometimes happens as well.

All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you.

STARR: Sure.

KEILAR: One of the survivors described his horrific abuse inside a North Korean prison, a shocked world took notice and applauded his courage. Now, the man is admitting, he bent the truth in some parts of his bestselling memoire.

CNN's Paula Hancocks separates the fact from the fiction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was a symbol of North Korea's human rights abuses, Shin Dong-hyuk of being born into and ultimately escaping the country's most renowned political prison camp was translated into 27 languages. But the defector now admits not everything was true.

The author of his book escaped from camp 14 says in a statement that Shin and his family were transferred from the brutal camp to a less restricted camp when he was six. It was there he says he witnessed the execution of his mother and brother after he informed guards of their plans to escapism. He now says he was tortured including being lowered from the hook over a charcoal fire happened when he was 20, not 13.

Shin has not returned calls from CNN, but has apologized on his facebook page saying he quote "forever wanted to conceal and hide part of my past. We tell ourselves that it's not OK to reveal every detail."

In 2013, Shin (ph) was a key witness at the United Nations first comprehensive investigation into North Korea's human rights abuses. The chair of the commission says these and other inaccuracies do not affect the report that condemns Pyongyang. They really show he suffered double horror versus triple horror.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is still pretty clear that he suffered a lot of great wrongs and had wounds and burn marks and other things on his body which confirm or corroborated that that was --

So I think it is very important to take this perspective.

HANCOCKS: (INAUDIBLE) is a former prison guard in North Korea. He says where and when Shin was tortured is academic. Whether you are in camp 14 or camp 18, the torture methods are the same, he tells me, a combination of methods used by Nazis and during Japan's colonization by Korea.

North Korea has tried to discredit Shin for years, releasing this footage of his father last year denouncing his claims. Shin says he didn't even know his father was still alive.

Pyongyang is widely expected to take advantage of Shin's admission of inaccuracies. The regime often refers to defectors who publicly criticize the country's human rights as human scum.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: There is a new controversy hanging over the New England patriots as they head to the super bowl. Is there a chance that they messed with the footballs last night? We have details of an NFL investigation next.

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KEILAR: Well, stop me if you've heard this one before. The NFL looking into accusations that the New England patriots cheated in yesterday's AFC championship game. The team is accused of deflating the footballs in its game against the Indianapolis Colts. Really not like they needed help, right? They pretty much schooled the colts. The pats one 45-7. Patriots Tom Brady says this whole thing is ridiculous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BRADY, NFL PLAYER: I think I heard everything at this point. That's ridiculous. That's the last of my worries. I don't know how to respond to stuff like this. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: OK. He doesn't even respond to it. But football fans aren't so trusting here. Remember in 2007 the team's coach, Bill Belichick, was fined half a million dollars for the patriots' videotaping another team's coaches signaling to players. That was called spy-gate. Will deflate-gate tarnish this year's super bowl?

Joining me now to talk about this is Mel Robbins, who is a CNN commentator and she is not even trying to appear on by it. She is a big New England patriots fan. And we also have former pro football player Coy Wire.

OK. So Coy, explain this to the uninitiated, especially in the weather conditions that we saw yesterday, how the deflated football would help the patriots.

COY WIRE, FORMER PRO FOOTBALL PLAYER: Well, deflated football actually helps the team using it. So Tom Brady and his receivers will be able to grip the ball better. It's a bit more deflated so, you know, especially when it's raining out, it would be like trying to catch a water balloon, that's kind of pliable as opposed to a bullet or cannonball that's wet.

So they are looking into this. Officials supposedly during the game pulled a couple of the footballs because they were under the specified amount, the guideline amount for the inflation of the ball.

They are looking into this and we will see if there's any truth to it. If it is true, Mel will be happy to know the worst case scenario, the Patriots would lose a couple draft picks. They will still be able to take on the defending world champ Seahawks in the super bowl in a couple weeks.

KEILAR: Yes. It is not like the, don't get, you know, the win is taken away from them or anything.

So Mel, big fan of the Pats, what do you think of this whole thing?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR/LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, in all honesty, my first -- my first reaction was I was just thrilled to hear that any investigation into deflated balls by the NFL, that it didn't involve steroids and that it was just about letting air out of an actual football. So that was my first reaction.

But you know, look, the Patriots, they paid their dues for SpyGate. They actually went on to have a winning record after SpyGate. I think they will be just fine. It's only an allegation at this point. I know you can't get yourself together.

I couldn't resist. I'm sorry.

KEILAR: My God. You don't even know. I'm trying to like save footballs and not get myself in trouble through this whole story inadvertently. But you went there, Mel Robbins.

WIRE: Yes, she did.

ROBBINS: I did go there. I'm sorry. And I think this is the first investigation of this kind in the history of the NFL. I don't know if Coy knows or not. But I never heard of anything like this actually being investigated.

(CROSSTALK)

WIRE: Yes. Even in college football, USC was accused of it and I think they were found guilty of it, of the tactic. But you know, when it comes down to it, they could have been using a wiffle ball out there, guys. I mean, the Patriots completely and utterly dominated the Colts. And I don't think anything more will come of this.

KEILAR: OK, yes, but explain the mechanics here, because I would think that if there is something the matter with the footballs, and it's a benefit to the pats, isn't it a benefit to the colts as well? No?

WIRE: Well, each team has their own set. The home team submits 12 footballs two hours before the game and those footballs after weighted remains under supervision of the officials until game time.

KEILAR: OK. All right. So each team has 12 and they have to average this certain PSI, they are checked. It's all very specific. They do this in a lot of sports, similar things.

WIRE: Yes. And I will say that it is not uncommon for one of the footballs during the game to be pulled because it's underweight or something happened to it, it got scuffed up. So it does happen. It's not odd that a football would be pulled from competition. That's why there are 12 of them. But of course, you know, Patriots fans are up in arms about this. But hey, there is some justification there. Spygate happened. And that's what this is all about.

KEILAR: Well, that's the thing. It's happened before.

ROBBINS: And also, you always attack the winner, right? I mean, look, when they played the Ravens, the Ravens were upset in saying listen, hey listen, some of these plays were against the rules and the NFL came back and said no, under the new guidelines the plays were completely fine.

And so, I think it's easy to attack the winner. I don't even know who it is that it's making these allegations. I don't think anything will come of it. If something does, they will pay their fine, they will lose a draft pick and we will still go on to be the number one football team in America, end of story.

KEILAR: But real quick, Coy, you think something could come of this, right?

WIRE: Well, it is just the worst case scenario is the patriots would lose a couple draft picks, as Mel said. But they still get to go in a couple weeks to Phoenix -- Glendale and play in the super bowl against the Seahawks. It is going to be an awesome game. KEILAR: Yes, I'm looking forward to it. It is on my calendar.

All right, guys, thanks so much. Great discussion Mel Robbins and Coy Wire. Thank you, guys. have a good one.

WIRE: Thanks.

ROBBINS: Good to see you.

KEILAR: And that is up for me or that is it for me, I should say. I can speak English. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.