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Belgium Searches for Ringleader; Yemen Government; American Sniper Debate; Mysterious Death of a Prosecutor

Aired January 20, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. I'll take it. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with me.

We have to start with this massive manhunt happening right now for potential terrorists. Terror raids and arrests in France, Belgium, Greece, Germany, and the Netherlands. Look at this map here. All revealing this widening web of suspected terror cells across Europe. And we are hearing now that French police have arrested five Chechens over a terror plot.

Also today, other suspected terrorists were in court. Four of them being kept behind bars as investigators probe their links to the Paris attacks. All of this as these two prime suspects are still on the run.

And let's talk about this one man here believed to be the ring leader for this ISIS-linked Belgian terror cell. This is the guy. And then there is the world's most wanted woman. We've been talking about her now for just about two weeks. The widow of that Paris kosher market gunman. CNN is now tracking how Hayat Boumeddiene may have escaped to Syria. All of these men believed to have helped smuggle her out of Turkey. As the reach of ISIS now extends deep into Europe, back on their turf, their terrorist modus operandi, if you will, continues with another hostage video. Japan now has less than 72 hours to come up with this $200 million ransom for the return of these two Japanese hostages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the prime minister of Japan, although you are more than 8,500 kilometers away from the Islamic state, you willingly have volunteered to take part in this crusade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And so this is significant. This is a first because really, until now, ISIS has never publicly demanded cash ransom for a hostage's life. And the $200 million ransom was not chosen at random. No, this is the precise dollar amount that Japan had pledged in aid for regions affected by the war on ISIS. So that's why that number is significant.

A lot to talk about. Let me bring in Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst and columnist at Bloomberg View.

Josh, welcome, sir. JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And let's begin with this ring leader. We showed the picture of this guy. This whole manhunt for the suspected ring leader of the terror plot to kill police in Belgium. He is still on the run. Last known location was apparently Greece. How do counterterrorism folks, how do police even begin to find this guy?

: Sure. I think what all of these incidents show is a drastic change in the approach in Europe following the Paris attacks. Whereas before, European countries were content to monitor these groups via surveillance, very close surveillance, and now they've all decided that the risk of keeping these groups under surveillance is greater than the risk of just going ahead and rounding them up and detaining them and figuring out what happens later.

We're seeing that there is effort in all of these countries to go and not only arrest these but prosecute these alleged terrorists. And that raises a whole bunch of questions. First of all, is the intelligence sharing there for cooperation between all of these countries? Let's remember, only a year ago, European countries were decrying surveillance through intelligence that was revealed by the leaks of Edward Snowden, and now they're calling for greater U.S. support in the intelligence.

The other major question that this raises is, will Europe re-examine its visa policies? Already in France there are calls from the right to close borders under what's known as the Shangen (ph) area and there's calls in the U.S. for visa waver changes as well. So what we're seeing is a scramble in all of these countries to get these guys under wraps, to not let these sleeper networks fester because there's no way to know, even if these sleeper networks remain dormant for a long time, when and why they might be activated to conduct terror attacks against western countries.

BALDWIN: You know, even on the visa note, how it affects here, us at home, we heard from the former chair of the Senate Intel Committee, Diane Feinstein. She was really critical of that, you know, just about a week ago.

But on the point about, you know, this so-called ring leader's movements and locations and hopefully, you know, a great practice in intel sharing between different countries in Europe, how do they try to find him because of, you know, people who, of course, help smuggle individuals across borders, how do they do that?

ROGIN: Yes, exactly. So it's very interesting, actually, because, in America, the FBI has a quite different practice. They tend to plant moles inside these organizations and then sort of entrap them. And that's a very slow process. In Europe, mostly they do it through intercepts. They catch the vast majority of these terrorist when they contact their friends, either via e-mail or over the phone or through social networks or through WhatsApp or Viber.

BALDWIN: Interesting. ROGIN: That's the main way that they get them. So that's what they're monitoring now. And that's how they allegedly found the friend of the ring leader, who is now being prosecuted.

Of course, this presents another problem for European countries. It's that a lot of this evidence is so secret and these sources and methods are so secret that they cannot be used to prosecute these individuals. So there's a benefit to using all these surveillance techniques is that you can get these guys faster, but there's a disadvantage as well is that, when it comes time to try them, it may be more difficult to keep them behind bars. But that's a problem, I guess, for another day.

BALDWIN: Damned if you do, damned if you don't. We've talked about it. I'm sure we'll talk about it again.

Josh, what about this. Prior to this manhunt and the raids on this Belgium terror cell, we know that extremists had reportedly tweeted out he's dead. Essentially it was revealed he had faked his own death online to try to throw these investigators off. How common is that?

ROGIN: It's like an episode of "Homeland." It's a common practice for terrorist leaders to advertise misinformation and disinformation through social media and through the regular media. It sometimes works. But let's remember that our intelligence services are not using open-source information. Sure, they're monitoring Twitter and everything else, but what they're really focused on is the private communications that they obtain through secret methods, through monitoring. And while that's a very controversial policy, it seems to be the reliable one and one that they're certainly focusing on more as they try to round up these networks, especially in countries away from where the attacks are actually taking place.

BALDWIN: OK. Josh Rogin, as always, thank you so much. And I think I'm the only person on the planet who's never seen an episode of "Homeland," I can hear my executive producer saying that needs to change. Appreciate it very much.

ROGIN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: As Europe tries to break up terror cells, the U.S. just announced the results of its very own crackdown. The Department of Justice has charged these two suspected members of al Qaeda for allegedly plotting to kill U.S. military overseas. Officials say these offenses happened between the years 2003 and 2009.

Now, these men are citizens of Yemen. This is a nation known for really this breeding ground for jihadis bent on attacking America. And at this moment, Yemen appears to have no functioning government after rebels took over the presidential palace today. The minister of information there saying, quote, "the president has no control." Let me repeat, the president has no control.

Let's go to Nick Paton Walsh, the only western broadcast journalist in Yemen.

And, Nick, begin with the rebels. Who are they? What does this mean for the future control of the country?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at the moment, the rebel figurehead, Abdumalik Houthis (ph), is giving a lengthy speech in which he's, it seems, outlining a lot of complaints against the government and the failure of the political process here, but he heads a sort of group of political militia tribe members known as the Houthis. They're a political movement (ph). They have political representation here but they have, in the past few months, been extraordinarily successful in moving across the country. They're predominantly based in the north of the - to the capital in a town called Sana'a. They've been moving down and they moved into the capital late last year, putting up checkpoints around the area here.

They're mostly predominantly Shia. They feel marginalized. Historically, they have always had a conflict with the central government here to some degree. But what it appears they're up to at the moment is trying to exercise power on the streets of Yemen. There was the clashes around the presidential administration yesterday in what the Houthis say they didn't start. But what we've seen today now is they're moving into the presidential palace. There's a lot of gunfire outside the president's residence itself. And, of course, as you mentioned, the minister of information saying, look, we really do think the coup is complete now. The question really we're listening to of the speech from the Houthi leader is, what kind of power do they want? Do they want to own the government or do they want to appoint a figurehead on their behalf?

Brianna.

BALDWIN: It's Brooke, Nick. And what about the U.S. embassy vehicle? We had heard this vehicle was shot today. Was anyone injured there?

WALSH: Nobody injured, but a deeply troubling episode for the diplomatic mission here, Brooke. This was an armored SUV. Very distinguished here. You can tell when the diplomats are traveling. Vehicles stand out a mile, frankly.

But they were moving at a checkpoint near the American embassy. Gunmen fired upon them. Initially the shots were in the air, but then were trained on the vehicle itself. Armored. It could withstand those rounds. There were U.S. diplomats, U.S. citizens inside. Everybody uninjured. But the embassy clear in a statement, these were not warning shots, they said. There was intent. So quite clear an intent to kill or injure U.S. diplomats here. They apparently moved straight into the embassy compound. Totally safe. But that will, of course, raise fears in Washington for the safety of the embassy staff here who say they're carrying on pretty much as normal. They've always been in a very heightened security posture.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Nick Paton Walsh live in Yemen.

Nick, many thanks to you.

Just into us here at CNN, that AirAsia flight that disappeared rose, quote, "faster than a fighter jet." We're talking 6,000 feet per second. We have new details on what that could mean ahead.

Plus, critics are blasting the "American Sniper" movie for glorifying war. We'll debate with a Medal of Honor recipient.

And a prosecutor getting ready to reveal the result of this alleged cover-up investigation involving Iran is found shot to death. Was it suicide or assassination? That's coming up. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And Clint Eastwood's Oscar-nominated war memoir, "American Sniper," is taking over at the box office. Its record-breaking take of $105 million is absolutely making headlines. The film profile celebrated war veteran Chris Kyle, who has been hailed as America's deadliest sniper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got a woman and a kid, 200 yards out, moving towards the convoy. Her arms aren't swinging. She's carrying something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And with the record-breaking box office headlines comes this headline, the political controversy that keeps breathing air and life after documented filmmaker Michael Moore called snipers cowards. His comments ignited this ferocious backlash. Even the movie's star player here, Bradley Cooper, is speaking out. This is what he told "The Daily Beast." "For me, and for Clint," he says, "this movie was always a character study about what the plight is for a soldier. I can't control how people are going to use this movie as a tool. If it's not this movie, I hope to God another movie will come out where it will shed light on the fact of what service men and women have to go through and that we need to pay attention to our vets." Bradley Cooper.

Here now is veterans advocate Karen Spears Zacharias, author of "After the Flag Has Been Folded," and also with me, back with us, we're so grateful, U.S. Marine veteran and Medal of Honor Recipient Dakota Meyer.

So, welcome to both of you.

KAREN SPEARS ZACHARIAS, VETERANS ADVOCATE: Thank you.

SGT. DAKOTA MEYER, MEDAL OF HONOR RECIPIENT: Thank you.

BALDWIN: You know, listen, I know this is incredibly personal for both of you for very different reasons and I, obviously, want to get to that.

But, Sergeant Meyer, let me just begin with you and this criticism. As we mentioned, Michael Moore, even Seth Rogen tweeted this criticism, that snipers are cowards. Can you just address that for me off the top here?

MEYER: Look, I - you know, I - you really -- there's nothing to address on it, honestly. I mean cowards are people who live in a free country and didn't have the nerve to go serve and sit back and call our service members cowards. That's a coward.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Karen, your dad died in Vietnam. Your nephew is a sniper. I know you don't want to see this movie. Tell me why.

ZACHARIAS: I can't see this movie, and I have nothing against those who go to see it, but I can't personally go to see it. And, for me, I think it's a matter of, when you've lived with the realities of war - I was nine when my father was killed. I grew up during the Vietnam generation. I lived in the backyard of the My Lai trials. I think when you live with that, I serve on several national veterans boards, and, you know, veterans are my friends. Their numbers are in my cell phone. I've walked with them through PTSD. I've seen it firsthand. And movies like this can open up some really raw, vulnerable points for both families and for veterans.

BALDWIN: Sergeant Meyer, I think that you would respectfully disagree with Karen. I mean from what I understand, you think it is important for Americans to see what you call the war after the war.

MEYER: I mean I absolutely - I tell you, after seeing the numbers and seeing people go to this movie, you know, I mean, look, everybody has a different perspective on it. Did it bring back some issues? I mean, look, it did. It did. It brought back some realness to it.

But I tell you what, it put hope in my heart. It put hope in my heart because finally someone put a movie out there that put a message across that we've been trying to get across to America overall. It's not about the killing. It's not about this. It's about, look, it's about our service members in the war after the war is what I call it, when you come back and have to deal with this and live with this, and the family members who deal with the hurt. It never ends for us. It never ends. And I think this movie depicted it perfect.

But I tell you what gave me even more hope, Brooke, is that there's so many people that came to see this, that if 5 percent of them just leave and they go out and start doing something on behalf of veterans or it changes their perspective on our veterans and they start supporting service members, then it was worth it.

BALDWIN: What about that final point that he just made, Karen, that it could inspire some to -

ZACHARIAS: I absolutely agree. Yes, I think that that's absolutely right. If these people who are lining up to see this movie then make a beeline for their local VA center or any of their local veterans organizations and really do something -- you know, only half of 1 percent of all Americans served in active duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. Where were those long lines when we needed men and women to serve in those wars? I don't understand the need and the desire to see a movie about war when you're not willing to go to war.

BALDWIN: And also, to Karen's point, for those of you who haven't read her opinion piece on cnn.com, and I encourage each and every one of you to do so, you know, Karen, you write about Chris Kyle's funeral at Cowboys Stadium and the point that so many of our men and women who come home, they don't have the jumbotrons and the front page stories. You know, you wrote that it left a family like yours feeling abandoned by an ungrateful nation. Sergeant Meyer, how would you respond to that?

ZACHARIAS: Well, --

MEYER: You know, I agree. I agree that right now our veterans are in a place that they need support. It does. It does feel almost like an ungrateful nation sometimes. But here's what I want to say is, that the more I go around, and the more - I mean you see -- just like this with this movie, America spoke. I mean look at this. They blew this movie off the charts. I believe that once they go and they start getting the perspective, it's a lot different than it used to be. Back in World War II, everyone was affected by that war, whether you were rationing or whether - you know, everyone was affected in some way. So I think that's why they had more support for their veterans when they came home. But - and there was a defined win. But when you go and the wars we're fighting today, you know, not everyone's affected because we have such a great service, great pool of service members, some of the finest men and women who are willing to raise their right hand and serve their country. And it takes the burden off of everyone else. And the only people who are affected by it are the families and the men and women who are serving.

BALDWIN: Sergeant Dakota Meyer, thank you, as always, for your service and for coming on again. And Karen Spears Zacharias, folks, if you haven't read her piece on cnn.com, please do so. Thank you, both, very much.

MEYER: Thank you.

ZACHARIAS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, how to stop a lone wolf. Remarkable undercover video shows the FBI, how these agents intercepted and foiled a bomb plot in 2012 targeting the U.S. Capitol. We have that for you.

And next, suicide or assassination? A federal prosecutor turns up dead hours before testifying about this alleged government cover-up in a decades old terror attack. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It is a tale of terrorism, intrigue, and now the mysterious death of a crusading prosecutor, a man about to reveal what he promised would be evidence of high-level political corruption. Let me take you back to 1994. Terrorists bombed a Jewish center in Buenos Aires killing 85 people. No one has ever been charged. And Iran has always been suspected of involvement. This crusading prosecutor last week sent Argentina into this political uproar because he linked Argentina's current president to a conspiracy to cover up Iran's role in that attack. And then, just two days ago, that very same prosecutor was found dead in a bathroom, a .22 caliber pistol at his side.

There is so much to this story. Shasta Darlington, let me bring you in here and begin with this prosecutor. You know, on the day before he died, he was quoted as saying, quote, "I might get out of this dead." Let's begin with, is there -- was there any indication he died of anything other than a self-inflicted gunshot wound?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, the plot is really just getting thicker. We now have the initial results of the autopsy. They didn't find any gun powder on his hands, which would have been pretty convenient for proving that suicide theory.

Now, to be fair, the federal investigator had warned ahead of time that because of the small caliber of the gun, 22 caliber, they likely wouldn't find any gun powder. Still, they also haven't found a suicide note. Still, probably the most suspicious element in this case is really the timing. Nisman's body was found just hours before he was supposed to appear before a congressional committee to talk about those accusations that he said the president of Argentina was covering up for Iran. So that's where the real sticky point is here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So what about also Iran's involvement, Shasta? Why is Iran suspected of involvement here?

DARLINGTON: It is a long-standing allegation. This happened 20 years ago. Buenos Aires is a city with a huge Jewish population. So from the very beginning, Iran was suspected. Nisman was appointed to investigate a decade ago. And he had come up with all sorts of evidence that he says indicated that Iran worked with Hezbollah to organize this bombing. Iran has always denied any involvement, but keep in mind the bombing of the Jewish center came just two years after the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires was also bombed. Twenty-nine people were killed then. These were turbulent times and Iran was suspected to be involved in a lot of these activities, not only in Argentina, but in other places around the globe, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We want to stay on this. Again, want to hear about public opinion and the role, if any, of the current president of Argentina in terms of any possible cover-up. Shasta Darlington, keep digging for us, and we appreciate it. We'll check back in with you in the coming days.

Meantime, just ahead, new information shows that the doomed AirAsia flight climbed by 6,000 feet in the final moments, this is according to one official. So that's faster, they're saying, than a fighter jet.

Plus, protecting the homeland. Remarkable undercover video shows how the feds foiled a lone wolf plot on the U.S. Capitol from a couple years ago. CNN takes you inside this FBI operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back inside the car, undercover agents using a cell phone show him how easy it is to detonate a bomb.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to (INAUDIBLE). You're going to (INAUDIBLE). It's called (INAUDIBLE) and it (INAUDIBLE) and (INAUDIBLE).

CANDIOTTI: He gives him the phone and, moments later -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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