Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Reaction to the President's State of the Union; AirAsia 8501 Climbed Too Fast & Stalled; ESPN: Patriots Deflated Balls in AFC Championship Game

Aired January 21, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

In last night's State of the Union, President Obama took some jabs at Republicans and made what sounded like campaign promises for the future, but he also took what some are calling a victory lap in the fight against terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Instead of sending large ground forces overseas, we're partnering with nations from south Asia to North Africa to deny safe haven to terrorists who threaten America. In Iraq, in Syria American leadership, including our military power, is stopping ISIL's advance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But the fact remains that ISIS, or ISIL as the president calls it, continues to terrorize Iraq and Syria. The Taliban stepping up attacks in Afghanistan as American troops end their combat mission. And Yemen is on the verge of collapse as insurgents stage a coup. It doesn't quite feel like we're gaining the upper hand against terrorists and extremists. So let's talk about that.

I'm joined now by Bill Richardson. He's the former governor of New Mexico and a former ambassador to the United Nations and a former U.S. energy secretary.

Welcome, sir.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. Ambassador Richardson, is the president risking a mission accomplished moment by saying what he said last night?

RICHARDSON: I believe this was his strongest speech, his strongest State of the Union speech. He was cocky. He was confident. He seems liberated after the loss in the election in November. He's moved forward with a stronger economy, executive action on deportation and immigration. The Cuba initiative, a wrath of middle class proposals, community college. It's as if he's concerned about the direction of the country and his legacy.

And why I'm optimistic, I know there's a lot of pessimists out there, is Republicans have to respond. They want to capture the presidency in 2016. And, secondly, they want to keep control in Congress. So I see the potential for compromise on a lot of issues, not right away, but I do see some glimmer of hope in this dysfunctional government that has taken over and that might be replaced by some reasonable compromises.

COSTELLO: Well, Republicans have already responded. One, John McCain, senator John McCain called Obama's leadership on foreign policy, quote, "dangerously absent with a shameless lack of strategy." Is he right?

RICHARDSON: No, he's not right. And I think what the president has done is he's assembled a coalition over 60 countries in the fight against ISIS and ISIL, terrorism, al Qaeda, Paris. I think what you're seeing is a president that has said, OK, we've gotten out of Iraq and Afghanistan, now we have a new challenge of terrorism. Now we have to find ways to deal with some of the countries that we've had differences. Cuba and Latin America. Let's have an immigration bill that affects Central America and Mexico and affects our own Hispanic population. Let's find ways to have a trade agenda with Asia and Europe that brings together more jobs and more economic activity.

I sense the president's been liberated. He's like a man on a mission to achieve a lasting legacy. And this was, I think, his strongest speech. And I think the Republicans, even though the next day everybody has to make their political statements, are going to be in a quandary. They're going to have to say, look, do we want to be the party of obstructionism or do we want to work with the president and they might come out with some pluses for the 2016 election.

COSTELLO: Well, the Republicans seized the moment once again because the House speaker, John Boehner, he's now invited Benjamin Netanyahu to address a joint session of Congress. And if you could stick around just to talk about this, governor, because you know there was a terror attack in Tel Aviv earlier today. Dana Bash has more information on what John Boehner is suggesting.

Tell us more, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is happening as we speak, Carol. The House speaker is telling this behind closed doors to rank and file Republicans. And the this is that he has unilaterally, on his own, without the White House, invited the Israeli prime minister to address a joint session of Congress on February 11th. The reason why this is so -- such a big moment, a surprising moment, and no other way to put it, a big poke in the eye to President Obama, is because they want the prime minister to come and address the fact that they believe that he's wrong on Iran. That the president has said, in private, and public, please do not pass more sanctions against Iran. And in the words of the speaker, prepared remarks that we got from a Republican source that he's giving again as we speak behind closed doors talking about the president, "his exact message to us was hold your fire. He expects us to stand by idly and do nothing while he cuts a bad deal with Iran. Two words, hell, no. We're not going to do any such thing."

So that gives you a sense of why they invited the prime minister. Just another bit of context and background here, the general protocol for this kind of thing is, when you have a world leader coming and addressing Congress, is for Congress to consult with the White House. Our understanding is that that was not done on purpose. That they wanted to do this on their own and it appears that that kind of move is unprecedented to do this.

COSTELLO: Well, governor, I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but you have so much experience in so many areas, and we really want your insight. What do you think of this?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think it's fine. Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel, they're strong allies to the United States. Israeli prime ministers have addressed the Congress. I recall sitting through several addresses by Israeli prime ministers. This is good.

Unfortunately, maybe there's a little protocol violation in not informing the White House. But I don't think the White House is going to object. The issue here is Iran sanctions. And the president was very clear. He said that he's going to veto Iran sanctions if the Congress sends him a bill to do that because we're in the midst of negotiations, because our allies are supporting these negotiations.

I personally am concerned about these discussions with Iran. I don't trust Iran. I think that they're -- you know, they have American Marines in prison, American journalists in prison. I don't believe they can be trusted. So I'd want to see a final deal before I supported it.

But there's a lot of domestic politics here. I think Speaker Boehner wants to seize the moment after a State of the Union Address that has been largely positive by the president. But, the point is, Israel addressing the Congress, this has happened before. This is our -- perhaps our strongest ally along with Great Britain.

COSTELLO: Well, let's -- if I could ask you just another question about Iran because, correct me if I'm wrong, Dana, but the administration's concern is, is if more sanctions are passed against Iran, that might cause maybe a war and more conflict. Do you -- do you -- go ahead, Dana.

BASH: Well, I was going to say, what their concern is, is that it will -- it will disrupt the unity that is now -- that now exists between the U.S. and other countries, that there's a unified push to get Iran to agree to this deal that they've been working on for a very long time.

But I just want to say one thing. Ever the diplomat, Governor Richardson is saying it's not a big deal. The governor knows that Benjamin Netanyahu and President Obama have not had the best of relationships and that Netanyahu privately, maybe to him, I certainly know to other Republicans, has been apoplectic about the deal that is in the works between John Kerry, the secretary of state, and other members of this team, this coalition, and Iran. So that's another reason why this kind of poke in the eye really is a poke in the eye.

COSTELLO: So, ambassador, and I know you're a diplomat, what -- how do you respond?

RICHARDSON: Well, I did say that if the White House was not notified, this is a little bit of a protocol issue. But, look, it's Israel. If it were Great Britain, Mexico, strong allies, it's not much of an issue. But, again, the whole problem is Iran sanctions. And the president was simply saying, if you send me a bill that increases sanctions, disrupting negotiations, upsetting our allies, I'm going to veto it. So that was a show of strength that the Congress, which probably has the votes to pass some sanctions.

But, look, Israel's a great friend of America. So is Netanyahu. Yes, you know, foreign leaders, many times, the vibes are not the best and I think Obama, Netanyahu, yes, there's been some tension. But in terms of the alliance with Israel, the alliance in the Middle East, the vital alliance, this is -- this is going to be treated, I believe, as an effort to show support of the American people through the Congress for Israel. And we should do that.

COSTELLO: All right. Dana Bash, thanks for the big breaking news this morning. I appreciate it.

BASH: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: And Governor Bill Richardson, thank you so much for your insight. I sure appreciate it. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It wasn't all about the economy, Cuba and terror last night. President Obama did take time to mention recent police tensions in places like Ferguson and New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We may have different takes on the events of Ferguson and New York, but surely we can understand a father who fears his son can't walk home without being harassed, and surely we can understand the wife who won't rest until the police officer she married walks through the front door at the end of his shift. And surely we can agree that it's a good thing, that for the first time in 40 years, the crime rate and the incarceration rate have come down together and use that as a starting point for Democrats and Republicans, community leaders and law enforcement, to reform America's criminal justice system so that it protects and serves all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But for some, the president didn't go far enough. Just take columnist and cultural critic Jim Milalamu (ph) who tweeted this, quote, "events in Ferguson and New York, no mention of Ohio and no naming of victims, just events and kids coming home." But others praised President Obama. Quote, "the fact that Barack Obama mentioned Ferguson at all matters."

So let's talk about this with Kansas City Councilman Jermaine Reed. He was invited to the State of the Union by Missouri Congressman Emanuel Cleaver.

Councilman, thank you so much for joining me.

COUNCILMAN JERMAINE REED, 3RD DISTRICT, KANSAS CITY: Well, thank you so much for having me, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks. OK, I must admit, I'm curious, what was it like to be in the room?

REED: Well, it was a pretty good feeling last night just to be there, but to also listen to the president and talk about many of the issues that face many of us Americans and certainly with the people that I represent back in Kansas City and to see all of our world -- our nation's leaders in one room at one time, you know, without all the partisan bickering.

COSTELLO: Let me -- let me ask you about that, councilman, because --

REED: Sure.

COSTELLO: Because, you know, most Americans don't have a high opinion of our leaders these days, right? So, you mentioned what an amazing feeling it was to be in a room with so many of America's leaders. So that still says that we have a certain amount of awe in the way our country runs, right?

REED: Well, absolutely. You know, and I think the things that the president tried to point out yesterday is that we have to roll up our sleeves and work together. And we in cities expect for our leaders to actually do that. There are so many issues, and the issue of Ferguson and so many other issues, that we expect for our leaders to actually work on. If it's not transportation, if it's not making sure that we have marketplace fairness passed. There's a lot of things that have to be addressed and passed. And I think the president did that yesterday.

COSTELLO: Do you agree with the critics? Do you think Mr. Obama brushed over Ferguson?

REED: Well, let me just say this. That is a difficult speech to give at the State of the Union. And none of us has had an opportunity to do that besides 44 people. And for the president to even mention the fact that people's lives matter, but then also touch on it without going into detail, I don't think he brushed over it. I think that he did what he had to do to make sure he recognizes that there's tough times for all of us, but everybody's lives matter, and there has to be strong partnerships with police departments and communities in working together. In Kansas City, I think that we're really doing that with a number of

efforts that we have underway to make sure that we have strong relationships with the police department and also our community. And cities across this country have to really work to do that. And I think that everyone agrees. If there wasn't a time that everyone stood up last night, that was a time that everyone did.

COSTELLO: That's good. That's very good. Because the president also mentioned police and the difficult job they face, and the difficulties their families face every night, you know, wondering whether they'll come home and will be all right. So he have to walk that line, too, as President of the United States, right?

REED: Well, absolutely. And there are so many people -- black boys, brown -- all over that really fear a lot of times for their life, and they shouldn't have to feel that way, especially when it comes to police officers and having to look behind their back. But there's also black-on-black crime and people killing each other. But we have to work together to reduce all of that in our communities, and I think the president really yesterday outlined ways that we can do that. And we expect for our leaders in Congress to work toward a ways to make sure that we have funding and other things to address that.

COSTELLO: All right. Councilman Jermaine Reed, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

REED: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, new details from the black boxes of AirAsia Flight 8501. Alarms screaming, warning pilots the jet was stalling just seconds before it crashed. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY FERNANDES, CEO, AIRASIA: It is the single worse feeling I think I've ever had in my life, and it continues to be that. That moment of that phone call will haunt me forever. We've carried 250 million people 13 years very safely, and it is not something that you can really put into words when that call comes through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The words of CEO Tony Fernandes in his first interview since the crash of AirAsia 8501. This morning we're learning the highly anticipated preliminary report, slated to be released in a few days, will not actually be made public. Families will now have to wait for the full crash report and that could come as late as December.

But there are new details about the flight's final moments -- a hearing yesterday revealing the plane climbed too fast and then stalled. Here's the plane cruising at 32,000 feet, according to flight data. Within seconds, that plane climbed 6,000 feet. Here's how steep that would be. The move happening twice as fast as it should have. Investigators say alarms were probably screaming in the cockpit, and if you're curious as to what that sounds like, we have an example.

(AUDIO: ALARMS)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about these new findings. Aviation analyst Mary Schiavo joins us via Skype. Hi Mary.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST (via Skype): Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: What would it be like in the cockpit during the time those alarms would be going off?

SCHIAVO: And the alarm that you just played was just one of the many alarms that would have probably been going off because the climb rate exceeded what the plane is designed to do. In fact, at this flight level, at this altitude, it was two times or three times more than what it should have been doing. There would have been engine alarms going off, overspeed warnings, pitch warnings. I mean, this was one of probably many alarms. There could have been perhaps a dozen alarms going off.

And so when the investigators say what they are doing is trying to filter out all of the alarms so they can hear what the pilots are saying, it would have looked like an orchestral score, and that's exactly what they do. They single out each line in the recording so they can analyze each one separately. It's a big task and it will take some time.

COSTELLO: So when people wonder why the pilots didn't call in a distress signal, they were probably pretty busy and that's why, right?

SCHIAVO: They were very busy. And a lot of the indicators in that cockpit would have been giving them conflicting information. Because we know no pilot would have put this plane in a climb that exceeds what it should be doing by two to three times -- 6,000 feet per second and, at this altitude - I mean, the maximum on this plane is 3,500. And at this altitude they should have been under 2,000 feet per minute.

So we know that, then, there must have been terrible weather. They probably encountered a horrific updraft. But in this kind of a weather situation, in the icy inner tropical convergence zone, the weather could have very quickly - or at least the winds could have been a tailwind and then a headwind, and so they would have gotten conflicting readings off their instruments. And so with all these warnings going off and conflicting readings, they were fighting, probably just fighting like crazy, and that's usually what you hear on cockpit voice recordings, the pilots fighting it all of the way down.

COSTELLO: So if the plane was climbing at 6,000 feet per minute, how would that have felt inside the plane?

SCHIAVO: Well, it would have been -- the passengers would have been pulling at least 1 or 2 Gs. They would not have blacked out; it wouldn't have been enough to do that, but you would feel like you're on a fighter jet taking off of a carrier. You know how they take off and you see in the pictures, you see in film clips, of the riders go off the end of a carrier and they pitch up dramatically? That's what it would have felt like. Passengers would have been driven down into their seats. They would have felt very heavy; they would have felt like they weighed twice what they do, but they wouldn't have blacked out.

COSTELLO: So as the plane was ascending that quickly, what happens to make it crash sometimes?

SCHIAVO: What happens, and what the investigators have said they are sure happened here, is that the plane stalled. And what that means is the plane has pitched up so dramatically that a couple things could have happened. One, you interrupt the airflow over the wings. And so you have to keep airflow going over the wings at a speed to give the plane lift. That would have been destroyed.

Or -- in addition, you may have lost engines, climbing this quickly and undoubtedly with just torrential rains. Probably not hail but torrential rains could have caused have caused both engines to flame out or to be lost. So you're pitched up, you don't have enough air speed, wind over your wings, and then you're probably losing your engines. At that point, the plane shudders, falls off to the left and right, and either falls nose-down or goes down like a fluttering leaf.

COSTELLO: Mary Schiavo, thanks so much.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. We must, we simply must talk about Deflategate. Because according to ESPN, the NFL now says the New England Patriots did indeed use almost a dozen underinflated footballs during the AFC Championship Game on Sunday. As you well know, the Pats won that game and face off against the Seattle Seahawks in the Super Bowl next month.

This of course isn't the first time that Patriots have been in hot water over, well, you could say cheating. In 2007, Coach Bill Belichick was slapped with a $500,000 fine for spying on the opposing teams' defensive signals. In fact, I just want to show you the headlines in New York this morning because, hi, John Berman, super Patriots fan.

He's written a great op-ed about this but I have to show people these headlines because they kind of made me laugh because I'm a Detroit Lions fan. "Slime Balls." I'd show you the front - well, I'll show you the front. You're adults. You can handle this. You can see what it says, right?

And this is in "The Daily News". "What a Pair". OK, on an emotional level, though, as a huge football fan as I am -

you're a huge football fan. You've followed Patriots all of your life from when you, like, were probably in the womb. This is painful.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Look, there's a word for it. I mean, if Patriots deflated the balls intentionally, the word for it is cheating. That's what they call it. They call it cheating. The regulations say they have to be inflated to a certain point, and the reason you would deflate a ball is because it would make it easier to grip. This is a regular ball, pumped up. I can barely squeeze right here. This one has a little less air in it. You can see, I get a better grip here. And it was rainy during this game.

COSTELLO: No, let me try it because I have very small hands.

BERMAN: It was rainy out that day.

COSTELLO: And you're right.

BERMAN: And it could have been that the Patriots deflated the ball so Tom Brady could get a better grip on it.

COSTELLO: Wouldn't the other team have the same advantage?

BERMAN: No. Once the game starts -- what happens is the referee inspects all of the balls before the game to make sure they're the right pressure. Then each team basically takes their own set of footballs to their sideline and they control their own set of footballs when they are on offense. So what happened was the Colts picked off Tom Brady once. It's almost impossible to do that because he's just so perfect. They picked off Tom Brady once, and the guy who picked off the ball said, hey, wait a second, this Patriots ball seems not to have enough air in it. He told his coach. The coach reported it. The refs checked it out and now we're learning from ESPN 11 of 12 footballs seem to have too little air in it.

COSTELLO: OK, so let me run this by you, because Tom Brady laughed this off. He said he doesn't even pay attention to such things. But Tom Brady surely knew he was throwing a deflated ball.

BERMAN: You know, the difference between fully inflated and deflated, I don't know if it's easily perceptible. It's hard for me to believe that Tom Brady did not know it. I would like to believe he did not know it, but it is awfully hard. I mean, could it have been a coincidence? Could it have been some ball boy on the sideline who didn't -- do it with telling anybody else on the team? It's hard to believe. Which is why, again, the NFL has got a serious issue on its hand. They have a team going to the Super Bowl that may have cheated in the AFC Championship Game. So what do you do if you're the NFL?

COSTELLO: See? I'm a Lions fan and I only have to worry about my players stomping on people and kicking players in the head. Which is too bad, but it's not cheating.

BERMAN: But you get a penalty for it. You get a flag for it. It happens during the game. This they found out after the game and now there are Colts players saying, hey, wait a minute. I mean, look, they lost 45-7, the Colts did. Would it have made a difference in the outcome? Who knows. But if it helped the Patriots, if it was an unfair advantage, that's the definition of cheating.

COSTELLO: OK, shere can we find your opinion piece? Because I read -- it's on my Facebook page, by the way; it's fantastic.

BERMAN: I posted something on CNN.com. I basically said I'm a Patriots fan. Shame on me. I mean, I'm livid at the Patriots if they did this. And you know what, I don't know what to do. I cheer for the Patriots. I put my kids in Tom Brady jerseys. Can I put them if Brady jerseys for the Super Bowl? Is that a good message to send? I don't think it is. I don't think you could or should root for cheating teams.

COSTELLO: Don't put them in a Ndamukong Suh jersey either.

BERMAN: It would be too big.

COSTELLO: Way too big. John Berman, thanks. I appreciate it.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

(MUSIC)