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New England Patriots Caught Cheating?; Terror Hunt

Aired January 21, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's continue on. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

Let's start with this manhunt for suspected terrorists, because it has just grown. A law enforcement source telling CNN that the hunt may now include half-a-dozen associates of these three France terrorists. And it's believed they may now be in the safe haven that is Syria.

The fear now is that this network of terrorists could return to Europe and launch other attacks. These sources also believe that the Paris suspects urged their comrades to leave France prior to the attacks.

And that includes the wife of the kosher store gunmen, just one of the suspects now thought to be in Syria.

And we have this for you, this video spotlighted. You see this couple? This was taken a couple months ago showing the couple walking by this Jewish institution. And, again, according to our sources, they tell us this may be proof they had been hunting possible terror targets prior to that attack.

The hunt is also extending to this man. This is the alleged ringleader of Belgium's ISIS-linked terror cell. And this new video now links him to Europe's terror network. Here he is.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not fun seeing blood spilled, but it gives me pleasure from time to time to see blood of the disbelievers run because we grew up watching, we have grown up, seeing on TV, in the whole world the blood of Muslims being spilled.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He goes onto say that Muslims who are sick of a "humiliating life" in Europe or Africa should join the fight.

Let me bring in our senior international correspondent, Jim Bittermann, who is there live in Paris for us tonight.

And, Jim, let's begin with what your sources are telling you about this network of terrorists who now could be in Syria.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, those are the associates of the three terrorists that were involved here in Paris and the Paris events here.

I think as much as they're concerned about those half-dozen or so associates that may have fled across the border into Syria, they're also concerned about some 300 French nationals who they currently believe are in Syria fighting, either fighting with ISIS or being trained by ISIS.

There's concerns as well, the prime minister said today, about 3,000 people of interest in France. He said that in kind of a budget speech. He basically was saying he was going to propose legislation to up the amount of money that is being spent on security here. He's going to spend a half-billion dollars more to upgrade the security forces, primarily people that are doing intelligence research and whatnot. Going to hire something like 2,700 more agents, various security agents.

These are probably not people you will see. They're people that are working inside over computers and whatnot trying to keep track of all these people they believe are in France and could potentially be radicalized -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. So you have more manpower, more financing. What about this, Jim? What about how the Paris prosecutor just saying today, announcing this arrest of these four new suspects, all of whom are apparently connected to the kosher grocery store gunman? Who are these people?

BITTERMANN: Those are four of the 12 that were held over the weekend last weekend. Those four are actually going to face charges or may face charges. But at the moment, they, under French law, have just been told officially that they're under examination.

Of the four, there's one that's a particular person of interest. He was the one whose DNA was found in the car that Amedy Coulibaly got -- used to get to the kosher store. He's probably going to be charged at some point with conspiracy to commit a terrorist act, because he may have been involved in providing the car and perhaps even some of the weapons that Coulibaly used -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Jim Bittermann, thank you very much.

Let's turn from France now to Israel and the terror attack caught on video. This is just the latest in a string of attacks that has definitely put Israel on edge. And just to warn you, it's tough to look at. But we're going to roll this for you. You will see one victim in the attack in the circle here as this man is coming behind her and, as you can see, appears to stabbing her multiple times.

There were eight others, four of whom were seriously injured. The suspected attacker here is a 23-year-old Palestinian from the West Bank. He was shot in the leg by police and he was taken into custody and being questioned now by these investigators.

Israeli officials denounced this attack and pinned blame for this right on the Palestinian Authority for inciting violence against Israelis. Hamas, for its part, called the attack daring and heroic. CNN global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, joins me from

Jerusalem.

Elise, what are investigators, what are police saying as far as, this is lone wolf, larger group? What is this?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, it doesn't seem that any larger group is involved. It seems to be a lone wolf, this Palestinian, 23-year-old Palestinian from the West Bank city of Tulkarem.

His family told CNN and told Israeli authorities he doesn't have any political affiliation and was kind of driven to this attack by what he sees as a lot of suffering by Palestinians at the hands of Israelis. But Prime Minister Netanyahu saying this is the kind of incitement that causes Palestinians to undertake attacks against Israelis.

He invoked the kind of anti-Semitism against Jews we saw last week in Paris at that kosher market, earlier last year at the Jewish museum in Brussels. And so this attack just obviously one attack today against nine people, but this is really the latest tactic by Palestinians against Israeli. These lone wolf attacks aren't the kind of spectacular suicide bombings that we have seen in recent years, but certainly no less terrifying to the people that are there.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Of course they are. Elise Labott, thank you in Jerusalem.

And Israel's prime minister will have the opportunity to describe that threat to the U.S. Congress in person, because House Speaker John Boehner has invited Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to speak before a joint session next month. Here's the catch. Speaker Boehner did not ask the White House first.

In speaking today, he downplayed this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: America and Israel have always stood together. We have a shared cause and we have common ideals. And now we must rise to that moment once again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Speaker Boehner added he wasn't "poking anyone in the eye."

Let me go to Washington to our chief Washington correspondent, host of "THE LEAD," Jake Tapper.

Listen, is the bigger headline that Speaker Boehner didn't go to the White House to I guess ask some sort of permission or is that Israel accepted without going to Obama?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I think the White House's biggest issue seems to be that Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel, didn't alert the White House first, as the White House says, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest, is general protocol. They said this is a departure from protocol.

I think even though I see some people reporting this as if the White House is upset with Speaker Boehner, I'm not sure that's the case. I think they're more observing and taking issue with the fact this is a departure from protocol by the prime minister of Israel, if I get correctly what the White House is saying.

BALDWIN: I think that's a really, really important distinction. That's why I wanted to ask.

That said, of course you have Republicans, Speaker Boehner, he's the one that invited the prime minister to come and speak. But even members of the president's own party have been critical of -- sort of the centerpiece of this has been these ongoing negotiations, right, between the United States and Iran.

Are the concerns and even hearing from Senator Bob Menendez today, Democrat, are they valid?

TAPPER: Right.

Well, look, there's a lot of people, Democrats and Republicans, who think that Netanyahu will be able to make an effective case to the Congress as to why the sanction bill is good legislation, why Iran should not be trusted.

You're right. It's not just Republicans. Earlier today, Senator Tim Kaine, former DNC chair, Democratic senator from Virginia, said that Iran should be -- that the U.S. should be skeptical about Iran's intentions.

And then you have this from the ranking committee on from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: The more I hear from the administration and its quotes, the more it sounds like talking points that come straight out of Tehran. And it feeds to the Iranian narrative of victimization, when they are the ones with original sin, an elicit nuclear weapons program going back over the course of 20 years that they're unwilling to come clean on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's very stark and strong language from Senator Menendez, saying that the White House and the Obama administration language sounds like talking points from Tehran.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: From Tehran.

TAPPER: Yes. The point he's trying to make is that over the last 18 months during

these negotiations, he feels the Iranians have just been stalling while the U.S. and other countries in these negotiations have just been moving and moving closer and closer to what Iran wants and that these additional sanctions would show Iran that they're serious.

The bottom line is, many in Congress, Democrats and especially Republicans, think that the Obama administration is not -- is being too trusting of the Iranians, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It will be a big day, February 11. Mark your calendars when Prime Minister Netanyahu addresses members of the U.S. Congress. Jake Tapper, thank you, my friend. We watch you of course at the top of the hour on "THE LEAD." Thank you.

TAPPER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let me move along and talk about -- everyone is talking, chatting about this one. Did the New England Patriots cheat in the game that got them to the Super Bowl? Hear about the new report about the footballs they actually used. Plus, I will speak with the biggest Pats fans I have ever met. And he's kind of sort of upset. Don't miss that.

Plus, new revelations about the final moments of Flight 8501. Hear what happened after the plane made this unusual climb.

And forget the politics, forget the pundits. I picked the top 10 buzziest moments from the State of the Union. Don't miss them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Less than two weeks ago now before Super Bowl XLIX, the Seattle Seahawks take on New England Patriots. Just in time for the kickoff, a potential cheating scandal is unfolding.

Here's the story from ESPN. They're reporting that the NFL has determined that the Patriots' game balls were underinflated during last Sunday's AFC championship game. How many, you ask? Good question. Answer, 11 out of 12 footballs, 11 out of 12.

Does that really matter? Some former players say deflated balls don't win games. The Pats went on to trouncing the Colts 45-7 because they were the better team? Question mark. The NFL has confirmed to CNN the investigation is ongoing.

Let's talk about this with the former senior editor of "ESPN: The Magazine" and sports analyst -- sports business analyst Keith Reed.

Keith, good to see you.

KEITH REED, FORMER ESPN EDITOR: Hey, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So you covered the Pats while you were working as a journalist in Boston. And we're going to get to all of that in just a minute.

But can you explain to all of us why a semi-deflated ball may be advantageous when it comes to either catching or tossing?

REED: Well, sure.

You're talking about it being extremely cold. You're talking about it being rainy and wet. When you have a ball that is inflated to its maximum potential, that ball becomes more a little bit difficult to throw and more difficult to catch.

If you think about trying to wrap your hand around a football, and then lean back and get all the way into it and then throw that ball, if the ball is completely inflated, it's harder. It's just not as soft. It's a little bit more difficult to have your hand around it, your hand around in the right places in terms of where it is on the laces.

That's more difficult. If it's deflated, not all the way deflated, but it's slightly deflated, receivers in the NFL and people who handle game balls will tell you that it's softer, it's easier, a little bit easier to throw and it's a little bit easier to catch.

BALDWIN: OK. Now that we have gotten that out of the way and especially your knowledge of Boston sports, people either love or love to hate New England Patriots and the coach, Bill Belichick.

Listen, he got in a little trouble a couple years ago with the whole Spygate, trying to spy on an opposing team. Do you think that that sort of reputation in this whole thing has come back to haunt them?

REED: Oh, absolutely.

I have said for a long time that if you're west of Worcester, Massachusetts, or south of Providence, you probably already don't like the New England Patriots. You add Spygate onto that, there are many, many people who feel even worse about it. Now you go forward almost a decade on from Spygate and you find out that this is happening.

Do I think that this really had an impact on a 45-7 absolute, positive blowout of the Indianapolis Colts? No way. The Patriots would have won that game. But at the same time, it does not take away any of the fuel for the fire for people who think that the Patriots have always been looking for some sort of unfair advantage.

They keep doing these things to themselves in terms of their reputation and in terms of the legacy of what should be regarded as one of the best NFL teams ever. They have no one to blame for that but themselves.

BALDWIN: There are so many questions that are still unanswered in this whole thing. But if, if it comes to be that they purposefully cheated with these deflated balls, what do you think the punishment should be?

REED: Well, the NFL, I think, should take it pretty seriously. And I think they should take it seriously, again, not because it meant

that they won that game, but because the Patriots have been in trouble before.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What does seriously mean, Keith?

REED: Well, I mean, look at what happened in Spygate.

There was a $500,000 fine for the coach and there was a loss of draft picks. You go from there. Roger Goodell has talked about a pattern of behavior, repeat offenders and et cetera. If you have already had one offense for cheating, or at least for flouting the rules, and you were penalized that heavily, you would have to expect that Roger Goodell and that the league office would go further than that.

What might the fine be? Could it be $1 million, could it be a loss of several draft picks instead of just one draft pick? They're already going to the Super Bowl, which means they're going to pick at the back half of the first round of the NFL draft. Do you take a pick away from them in the top half of the second round? All of these things I think will be discussed and will be on the table.

But you're right. There are many questions that need to be answered about this before we get to the punishment phase. Just to be consistent, though, if this is found to be true and Roger Goodell makes good on his word, the penalty should probably start again at that $500,000 fine and loss of draft pick.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

And again to reiterate, the NFL has confirmed to CNN the investigation is ongoing. Who knows how long this investigation will take.

Keith Reed, thank you.

REED: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And you have Pats fans out there who have strong, visceral reactions to this news, but perhaps none taking it more to heart than my colleague John Berman.

I talked to him earlier today. He wrote this op-ed decrying Deflategate. He writes: "Screw them and shame on me," Berman's words.

Here we were.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: My colleague John Berman, there are reasons I love this man. He's a wonderful person to work with, great dad. We will talk about your little dudes in a minute.

But also because of your love for Boston and all things Boston sports. So brings us to the New England Patriots. Great game on Sunday for you, but not so great if you're following this whole Deflategate story. You are shamed, my friend.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's awful. It's awful.

Look, I'm hoping beyond hope that there was some kind of meteorological reason that these balls lost all that air.

BALDWIN: Meteorological?

BERMAN: I'm hoping that maybe it was accidental or a misreading.

But, barring that, someone involved with the Patriots had to take air out of those footballs. That's against the rules. That is cheating. And cheating is bad. And they would have cheated on the way to the Super Bowl.

BALDWIN: I love the picture that you post. You love your two little boys. And Tom Brady, number 12 jerseys, right?

BERMAN: Oh, yes.

BALDWIN: They rock those jersey every time they are watching the Pats with you.

BERMAN: As do I.

BALDWIN: As do you, Mr. 42-Year-Old, right.

People I think either love Tom Brady or they hate Tom Brady because he's like perfect.

BERMAN: Yes, Tom Brady is perfect. Tom Brady is perfect. Tom Brady is perfect.

BALDWIN: From the Pats' fan...

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: That's why people hate him. It's why I love him.

I fear -- I fear -- I shake in my Converse hightops right now over the thought that Tom Brady had something to do with this. I don't want to think for a second that he could have somehow been involved, either asked someone to take air out of the ball, because I just don't want to believe...

BALDWIN: Because it would be cheating.

BERMAN: It would be cheating. Again, if he did it, if he knew about it, it's cheating. It's against the rules.

BALDWIN: The NFL still hasn't addressed this. But you say they have to, right?

BERMAN: The NFL says they're not going to make an official comment. They're still investigating. I can't believe they will let this go on much longer. If the ESPN reports are true, and we have every reason to think they

are, that 11 of the 12 balls had less air than they were supposed to, they have got to come out and say if they have any evidence that the Patriots did it deliberately what they're finding. I have to believe they will issue some kind of sanction before the Super Bowl. They can't let this linger for 10 more days.

BALDWIN: Will you -- let's say we hear from the NFL, we hear that they were cheating or they don't make any comment. It could be any scenario. When are you sitting in front of your TV in two Sundays, who are you rooting for?

BERMAN: I'm wired to root for the Patriots. I'm cannot help but do it.

I do not think others -- I can't help myself. I'm a lost cause. I'm a lost cause.

BALDWIN: OK.

BERMAN: But my sons, I'm going to have a talk with them.

BALDWIN: You are?

BERMAN: I'm going to say, cheaters should never prosper. You should not be here cheering for a team that cheats.

BALDWIN: But they're going to say, but, daddy, you're rooting for them.

He wrote this amazing piece. It's a CNN opinion piece. It is entitled, "John Berman. I'm a Patriots fan. Shame on me."

Read it, CNN.com.

Berman, thank you.

BERMAN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Berman, I love you. Thank you.

Just ahead, did you catch President Obama's big joke at his State of the Union address, the snarky comment to Republicans? Plus, the top 10 buzziest moments that do not involve politics or pundits, that is coming up.

And this final moment to the AirAsia plane that crashed ultimately into that Java Sea, climbed incredibly fast and then stalled, we're learning. A pilot explains how that would have led to a crash and what may have happened in the cockpit, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN, just about the bottom of the hour here. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And let's turn now to this investigation of the AirAsia Flight 8501. Indonesia's transportation minister says the plane stalled after climbing rapidly. Flight 8501 was carrying 162 people over the Java Sea back on December 28 when the pilots requested to fly higher because of a storm.

We're now learning this plane then suddenly ascended at 6,000 feet per minute. That is far faster. Apparently, that's like a jet, like a jet plane, like an incredibly fast plane. And I'm blanking on the right word. Fighter jet. Thank you so much for jumping in my ear, fighter jet.

And then it suddenly stalled.

John Ransom is a retired airline pilot. He's now director of safety standards at the aviation consulting firm Safety Operating Systems.

That to me, the fighter jet comparison, really, really jumped out at me when we were talking about this yesterday. But this new notion, Captain, of the stalling, first of all, what makes a plane stall?

JOHN RANSOM, SAFETY OPERATING SYSTEMS: Well, an airplane essentially stalls when the amount of air flowing over the top of the wing is not adequate for it to provide lift.

And usually that's because the air becomes disturbed, oftentimes because of high angles of attack, which essentially means the air is coming at the wing at too steep of an angle to maintain flight.

BALDWIN: Can you recover after a stall ever?

RANSOM: Sure. I have did done a bit of testing on airplanes. And oftentimes we purposely would stall the airplane and then go through a recovery maneuver to make sure the airplane is behaving the way it's supposed to.

So, stall recoveries are something that are taught both in general aviation, as well as in jet transports.

BALDWIN: What about -- oh, forgive me.

RANSOM: Go ahead.

BALDWIN: No, no, just -- I wanted to just jump to this -- also this -- this notion that this plane ascended at some 6,000 feet per minute.