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Dr. Drew
The Teen Who Wants to Marry Her Father; Masturbation Saves Lives?; Maryland Couple Allowed Young Children to Walk Home Without Supervision
Aired January 21, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a woman is coping with depression by - - get this, masturbating. That is right. She is going public on Twitter with a hash tag, #orgasmquest.
And, little children walking home alone. Did the parents of two little children do anything wrong? Lots of people think so. Let us get started
with the segment we call "WTF." The most shocking story of the night that is dominating social media.
We have more tonight yet again in the teen who lost -- get this -- her virginity to her father. Planning to marry him. The response on social
media to the original story that we aired was overwhelming. We have had more than 19,000 shares on Facebook. Take a look at this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The teen, who wants to remain anonymous, says she grew up with her mother and was estranged from her father.
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PINSKY: Shocking story of the night. Dominating social media.
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SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: He started contacting her on Facebook when she was 16.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The first week she went to visit him, they had said.
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PINSKY: Adults take care of children.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: There is a reason I lost my virginity to him, because I never felt comfortable with any other man.
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PINSKY: She was in trouble and he took advantage of that with his own flesh and blood.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: They are engaged and planning to move to New Jersey where adult incest is legal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Fantastic. Joining us, Samantha Schacher from "Pop Trigger", Vanessa Barnett, Hiphollywood.com and Anneelise Goetz, attorney.
Anneelise, she claims the relationship is consensual. Forget the psychological principles of it being consensual. By definition, consent
from this kid at 16 was impossible.
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: It is not consensual. It is statutory rape. That is what is going on here. And, what we have here is the worst kind of
statutory rape because it is coming from her own father. It is such sad story. And, we do not know exactly what state they are living in.
But, it will not change the fact that she was 16 years old. And, it is hard to find any state where that is not going to be a crime. It is sad to
watch this happen. And, I think that the problem is, we are talking about an anonymous. She wants to stay anonymous. Right? So, it is hard to go
in and actually prosecute these crimes when you do not know who it is.
PINSKY: I bet there is some way you could figure this when out on social media these days. Sam, she actually defends reproducing with this -- what
do I call this guy? Animal? This father.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER": Predator. Rapist.
PINSKY: His father -- predator, rapist -- yes.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And, what does she say is the reason that she defends it?
SCHACHER: OK. So, here is what she says. Quote, "Everybody thinks that kids born in incestuous relationships will definitely have genetic
problems, but that`s not true. That happens when there is years of inbreeding, like with the royal family. Incest has been around as long as
humans have. Everybody just needs to deal with it as long as nobody is getting hurt or getting pressured or forced." Wow!
PINSKY: Oh, Vanessa, there we go. Murder has been around as long as incest too.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Let us just kind of deal with it, everybody. It is good times.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: The problem here is that this man is a child predator. He stalked her online. He took her virginity. He
groomed her. He had her in his house. He made her his victim. And, if he was not her father, these would be charges that this man would have to
face.
So, the simple fact that this is her father, I do not understand why he is not in jail. I think this is the only time where I believe journalists
sometimes need to tell who their sources are, sometimes need to tell who they are interviewing.
I am a journalist and I know that goes completely against what we stand for, but if this journalist knows who he spoke to, he needs to report it to
the police. This is a crime.
PINSKY: Well, Anneelise, Vanessa raises a good point here, which is when somebody is in imminently in harm`s way, do not they have some obligation?
Should not law enforcement be involved here?
GOETZ: Law enforcement may need to be involved, but it is going to be difficult to get that journalist to actually give up the name. What I
think is interesting here is she chose to remain anonymous, right?
And, she said that her friends do not know. Her family -- aside from her father, her family does not know. And, so -- But I think she is actually
doing a cry for help here, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: Because she is talking to a magazine. And, she has not been talking to anyone else. She has been talking to the echo chamber of her
father who, of course, is saying, "This is not weird. This is fine. Do not worry."
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: And, she made the choice to actually find a journalist and tell her story to the world. I think she is crowd sourcing for what to do next and
that is to leave.
PINSKY: Yes. You know -- Listen. And, Samantha, so many people these days are looking for validation of their sort of theoretical perspective.
I have talked to somebody today, who has worked in law enforcement and was saying he was talking to prostitutes who was being severely exploited, who
are defending it because they got to buy their Prada purses because who are you to say, man.
SCHACHER: Wow!
PINSKY: You got to get used of it. This has been around for a long time too.
SCHACHER: Right. Yes. Here is the thing with this girl, Dr. Drew. First of all, there are other people that know about this. And, it is a shame.
Her grandparents from his side, so they should be stepping in, OK? They are adults.
Also her best friend. I am sure she is around the same age. So, I do not blame her best friend. And, then this woman who is his ex-girlfriend, the
father`s ex-girlfriend who is also living with them, she should step in.
But, Dr. Drew, this whole GSA thing too is -- I am sorry, I researched it today. And, GSA for all of you out there who do not know what it is, it
stands for Genetic Sexual Attraction, there is very little research out there that even supports it. I think it is a crutch for people like him to
make it -- make him allow him to do whatever the hell he wants.
PINSKY: I got someone on the phone who has some experience with this. Her name is Barbara Gonyo. She is the author of the e-book, quote, "I Am His
Mother, But He Is Not My Son." Now, Barbara, you had given up your son for adoption when he was just -- when you were just 16. But, then you became
reunited with him 26 years later. Tell us what happened then.
BARBARA GONYO, WAS ATTRACTED TO SON: Well, I was the head of an organization called true seekers in adoption, which was reuniting adoptees
and birth parents. So, I was quite familiar with people meeting before I met him, you know? It took me a while to find him.
And, I did not even understand that I would have feelings like this. I never knew anything about it. And, I went to a conference one time for
adoptees and reunited people.
And, one of the girls in the -- was talking in one of the forums. And, she said that she had met her brother and she said, "I cannot get over how I
feel about my brother." She said, "I want to hop on a motorcycle behind him." She said. "I am actually attracted to him." She said, "I do not
know, it is like a genetic sexual attraction."
And, that is where the term came from, even though I am always credited with starting it, I did not. But -- and, I thought, well, that is really
strange. But, then as I got to know my son, I found myself having these feelings for him. Then I thought, "Why am I feeling that way about him?
He is my son."
But, he was never allowed to be my son. He was somebody else`s son. And, he looked exactly like his birth father. And, it was very confusing
feelings for me. And, I did not know what to do with those feelings.
I tried to discuss it with him, but he was never interested in discussing it. He was ashamed to even talk about it. So, I do not know if he ever
really had the feelings himself or I was carrying them by myself.
PINSKY: Barbara, how did you react when you read this particular article we have been discussing this evening?
GONYO: I did not read the article that you have been discussing this evening.
PINSKY: OK.
GONYO: I just heard about it this morning for the first time when you called me.
PINSKY: OK. Does it surprise you? Do you have any reaction to it? Because it started at awfully young age for this girl.
GONYO: Well, for one thing, she is only 18. And, she is looking for her daddy. And, she is going about it the wrong way because she got
conflicting feelings because she is not his little girl, but she is his little girl.
PINSKY: And, Barbara do not you hold him accountable for violating rather than holding the boundaries with this girl who has these conflicted
feelings, so she could work through with them on her own?
GONYO: Yes, I certainly do.
PINSKY: Thank you.
GONYO: I certainly do. I certainly think that it is up to him to stop it.
PINSKY: Yes. Exactly. Sam, last question real quick. Few time left.
SCHACHER: Just a comment really quickly. Because I think that there is a big difference between -- I still think it is weird between two siblings.
But, to a 30-year-old siblings and then an adult and a 16-year-old girl.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree. I agree. And, then Barbara, I think, stated it very nicely.
SCHACHER: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: And, she is the one accredited -- she say it herself a minute ago with developing this term. She sort of did, Genetic Sexual Attraction.
OK. Thank you, guys.
Next up, an intimate look at a conversation between that father, so-called, and the daughter who are engaged in this bizarre relationship. And, later,
a woman with depression that says masturbation is saving, well not just her sex life but her life overall. Back after this.
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JULIE, HAD INTIMATE AFFAIR WITH FATHER: My father and I reunited last year. We had a great reunion. It was very emotional. One of the key
things that happened was that we realized how much time has gone by and there was a lot of grief. I constantly wanted to talk to him. I wanted to
be in his presence. I wanted to hold his hands.
PINSKY: Is there a sexual component to it now?
JULIE: Well, there was not at first.
PINSKY: But, then there was?
JULIE: Exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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JULIE: There is no way for that relationship to ever be equal. There is never going to be equality in a partnership. There is always going to be
an imbalance and the father is need to be held accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. Welcome back. Now, that was Julie. She spoke openly about having had a sexual relationship -- excuse me, nearly a sexual
relationship with her own father. What you saw there was her, initially, with her enthusiasm for these intense feelings she was having.
And then later after a couple years after having had therapy, looking back and going, "Oh, my God, this was a poorest, dangerous situation. It was
built on horrible traumas of abandonment from my past. It is not good." And, when adults misbehave in that situation, it is to the detriment of the
little person, the child whom she represents here.
Let us bring in our behavior bureau. Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University. Erica America, Psychotherapist and
radio host. Leeann Tweeden, Host of LA Today on AM570 Radio.
Now, the "New York" Magazine article, the interviewer asked the article if the daddy/daughter dynamic ever comes up in their intimate sexual
relationship. Here is how this girl responds in the audio re-enactment. And, again, young people out of the room. Take a listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Not usually. But, it has come up a couple of times when one of us blurts out baby girl or daddy or something. Last time
it happened, we both stood up and stopped what we were doing. It caught us off guard.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, in the same article she described the first night they were together sexually. Another re-enactment follows. Take a look.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: That night we were playing wrestling in the room where I was going to sleep in and I bit him. He was wearing a pair of
basketball shorts and a tank top. And, after I bit him, I could see goose bumps pop up from his toes to his shoulders.
Then he pinched my inner thigh and I got goose bumps. We stopped and said that we did not know what was going on, but admitted we had strong feelings
for each other. We have discussed whether it was wrong and then we kissed. And, then we made out. And, then we made love for the first time. That
was when I lost my virginity.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, then I vomited. Excuse me. It chokes me up. But, it is just so sick. Now, Judy, in the article she says she has -- guess what?
Abandonment issues and that she dealt with chronic depression. What do you make of it?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think that all of the -- all of the ingredients were ripe for someone to take advantage of her.
And, it is really sad that the father knowing that these were some of her issues did what he did.
You know, I heard that Julie said when she went to therapy and decided to talk about this, again, that there is no equality in a relationship like
this. And, that is absolutely true. When somebody has abandonment issues, Dr. Drew and especially because it is actually very linked to the father
abandoning her because he was out of her life for so long.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
HO: This is not even a projection on to another object. Right?
PINSKY: No. This is --
HO: He is trying to fulfill that right through her father.
PINSKY: Right. He is, actually, the object of the abandoning fantasy that is now in front of her. What is that child supposed to do with that? She
lives in that intense fantasy that she is attached to and this predator walks into her life. Leeann, you are nodding your head.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, Dr. Drew, it is funny. I am going to do my own re-enactment here. This is what stuck out to me.
She goes, "We discussed it before we had sex. I told him I was saving myself for someone who I would be committed to for the rest of my life. It
was important for me to make it clear that if I made love to him, he was in a relationship with me."
It is like she was latching on. It is like if I am going to give up my virginity, you have to be mine. I mean, come on, there is all kinds of
craziness going on in that.
PINSKY: Well, her intensity, Erica, is something already that is -- it is adolescent. Let us say it. It is adolescent, Erica and it is adolescent
that had childhood abandonment issue. A lot of people have that. The intensity is out of control.
But, then to have an adult cosign that and take advantage of it and have that person to have been her father, it is sort of biblically -- I mean it
is some sort of, you know, on scale of myth that somebody does something like that.
ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, Dr. Drew, that is what I was going to say. This is all signs of dysfunction. So, choreographically perfect
that I find this story perhaps to not be true, Dr. Drew. Did that cross your mind at all?
PINSKY: Never.
AMERICA: Everything is too perfect.
PINSKY: No.
AMERICA: Really?
PINSKY: There is too many horrible people that I come in contact with in my life when I stuff like this. And, by the way, We talked to Julie and I
talked to Barbara. And, they have all had experiences like this. So, I know what happens.
AMERICA: OK. OK.
HO: Yes.
AMERICA: All right. Yes -- No, no. But, I mean I think it is horrible. I think she might have had abuse to begin with. Her mother was ill. She
had an abandoned father and then this father comes along and takes advantage of her.
And I think they definitely need to scrutinize, when did this happen? When did the first sexual activity happen, so that they can make it a legal
issue because this cannot just go on and they can live happily ever after.
PINSKY: But, Erica, you raised this point at a time in which articles are coming out in "Rolling Stones" that are, you know, questionable in
veracity. And, so it is an appropriate thing to question. Is this for real? Are we getting sucked into something? After all, there is no
confirmation of who these people are and what not. But, I think the point is, Erica, these things do happen.
AMERICA: I think they happen. But, what I am saying is, she is so positive right now. But, it is interesting, because you mentioned that
earlier with the other girl. In the beginning, you said she was very like, "Oh, it is great and we hold hands." And, then you said a couple years
later, she was very upset. We have not seen that yet with her. So, that is what I am scared for this girl.
PINSKY: Trust me. Of course, that house of cards -- Judy said it is coming. It always comes. There is always a house of cards that falls.
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: Leeann, let me read to you a couple of tweets and you can respond. This is Cody Maria, hope I pronounced that right. "Dads are supposed to
protect their kids from predators, not be the predator."
SCHACHER: Yes.
TWEEDEN: Yes.
PINSKY: I got Amanda Lauren says, "These people are very sick. I wonder how many other people are in similar situations we do not hear about it?"
@TinaLcar69: "Father should be in jail. Girl needs mental help immediately." Leeann, I think our professionals line up with our Twitter
followers.
TWEEDEN: Yes. I have to agree with all of them. And, Dr. Drew, if she was underage before, right, and now this is getting national press, is
there any way that law enforcement can go to whoever this guy that did the interview was and demand to know who this girl was, so they can go arrest
the father?
PINSKY: I have asked that to Anneelise, Vanessa and everyone, sort of it was unclear that they could ever extract this information. But, I will
tell you what, Judy, you know, we as clinicians, when somebody is imminently going to harm themselves or somebody else, there are procedures
for us to go through to alert the potential victims. Why does not journalist have something like that?
HO: That is right. I really wish they did because for us, we can actually take an active step right away. And, now, we have a nation who knows about
this story, wants to track this couple down, and we cannot do anything about it. That is really, really stressful.
PINSKY: All right. Here is my thoughts. Just got quick thoughts, which these things happen and people are remarkably defensive. People that are
even the victims are remarkably defensive about the situation they are in. It is when they change their perspective by coming outside of these --
moving away from this boundary of situations that they realize how problematic they are.
I am not saying that it is only because of moving out of it that they become problematic. It is exploitive. It is bounderless. It has a
profound effect on emotional development. And, as I said over and over, big people take care of little people. Adults, people in authority,
doctors, teachers, we are there to hold boundaries.
And, if somebody needs to act out against those boundaries, our job is to hold those boundaries and to get them the help they need to heal and feel
whole and regulate as an autonomous adult. Otherwise, we are deeming -- dooming them to dysregulation and stunted development.
And, we have lots of people out there like that who have been through various kinds of trauma. When they hit adulthood, they minimize the
trauma. They move away from the trauma and it is the gift that keeps on giving. It keeps operating there but outside of their consciousness and
causing a tremendous chaos in their life and relationships.
Now, next up, I have a woman who is trying to use a means of self- stimulation to regulate and overcome depression. She is masturbating to hold her depression at bay, and she is going public now. And, she is here.
And, later, our most tweeted story of the night, these children walked home alone. And, now, the parents in trouble. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: This woman says antidepressant medications are killing her solo sex life. So, she is documenting her mission to get
her orgasm back with the hash tag #orgasmquest. Is she over sharing or revealing the real struggles of living with depression?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Vanessa and Anneelise. We call this segment, "TMI" for obvious reasons. Our we sharing too much, especially when it
comes to the intimate details of our intimate lives.
One woman now has started the hashtag #orgasmquest. Her antidepressant medication stifled her ability to have climax and orgasm. So, she is now
masturbating once a day and documenting and sharing the experience on Twitter. Anneelise, you are nodding and smiling. Is she over sharing,
though?
GOETZ: No. I do not think she is over sharing. I think this is great. She is tackling this taboo for whatever reason. Women are not supposed to
talk about sexuality. It is a double standard. You will see Viagra commercials every day. And this girl is going out there and she is
addressing what she needs to handle her own --
PINSKY: Business.
GOETZ: -- mental illness.
PINSKY: Business.
GOETZ: Her business. I think it is awesome. She is a strong, powerful woman.
PINSKY: Sam, you are saying -- hold on a second. I see Vanessa saying maybe not. But, Sam, I will let you reign in first.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: So, my question is, the issue is depression. And, I am hoping she educates about mental illness in addition to raising awareness about the
potential adverse side effects of antidepressants that can destroy relationships by them.
SCHACHER: Yes. I think that is exactly what she is doing, Dr. Drew. I mean it is an orgasm. Come on, people. They feel good. They are natural.
They are healthy.
PINSKY: Slow down.
SCHACHER: And, as Anneelise said, it is important for her sexuality -- to feel confident in her sexuality, especially with relationships. And, Dr.
Drew, you know, one in ten adults are suffering from depression.
PINSKY: Oh, yes.
SCHACHER: So, you can imagine all these people out there who are not comfortable talking about also possibly suffering from this side effect.
So, good for her for providing this open forum with this hash tag.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: And, de-sympathizing it.
PINSKY: I am with you --
SCHACHER: I mean, would you rather see these people be silent, Vanessa.
BARNETT: No. I am not saying that at all. I do not think everything is for public consumption. But, I would much rather read by orgasms quest
than I am dating my daddy.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: So, I am not saying she cannot talk about it at all. All I am saying is --
PINSKY: Yes. I got to tell you something. I like the way you, guys, -- you are just cutting the male out of this conversation. So, go ahead, Sam.
Talk to Vanessa. That is right.
BARNETT: What I am saying is that sometimes when you use a catchy little phrase or catchy little hash tag, your message gets lost. And, so, people
are clicking on orgasmquest because they think she is just some girl that loves to get off instead of really doing research on this young lady and
figuring out that this is a serious issue.
And, if her medicine is not working for her the way it needs to, then doctors should be talked to. There should be more discussion about what
can change in that arena as opposed to, "Yey orgasm quest. Wohoo!"
PINSKY: Vanessa, you are right. I think she would say the same thing. I am going to have a chance to talk to her in just a minute. But, Sam,
before we get to her, lots of her followers relate. sWould you share with us some of the responses on social media?
SCHACHER: I will. OK. So, coming in from Lenice, "People should not have to choose between feeling mentally stable/healthy and feeling physical
pleasure, and I hope that we can develop medications that don`t force people to make that choice."
From Genie, "If men routinely lost their ability to orgasm because of a medication there would be a team dedicated to solving it. Where`s our
team?" Yes.
PINSKY: Well, now, before we go to our guest, I want to say. You do have a team. Physicians have been very concerned about this. Although, I have
to say, I was on a campaign at the end of the `90s trying to raise awareness about this.
And, no one was aware. It was bizarre. I saw relationships literally destroyed. People feeling rejected and unwanted. And, think of this Sam,
at a time in which they need their partner the most --
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: -- they are depressed and they need that connection and that person is confused and abandoning them, it was horribly destructive. So,
this is not a trivial issue.
SCHACHER: No.
PINSKY: This is a profound issue. However, it is a complex issue. And, I agree with you, Vanessa. There is a lot to this. So, let us see what our
guest, Crista Anne, who is the creator of the #orgasmquest -- Let us see what she has to say. Crista Anne, thanks for joining us. So, you heard
all our discussion here. Let us hear what you have to say.
CRISTA ANNE, CREATOR OF #ORGASMQUEST: Sorry, I got a little bit of a feedback here. I agree with everybody so far like I am not using this in
place of medication. I am using this to supplement the medication that I am on. The anti-depressant that I am on right now, amitripstyline, is
working wonderfully for me in every other respect. I just cannot cum. I enjoy life for the first time in my 32 years.
PINSKY: And, Crista, let me just slow you down a little bit. Amitriptyline is actually an old fashion where we used to call, Tricyclic
antidepressant. So, obviously, you are on -- you are working with a physician and you are trying lots of things.
I heard you say that you came out of the womb depressed. And, one of the things that, you know -- again, I think you want to raise awareness about
mental illness and reduce stigma. So, let me just sort of break this down a little bit.
When somebody is chronically sad, like you say out of the womb depressed and sad, not just cannot eat, cannot sleep, feel worthless and, you know,
cannot function, but sad, we call that dysthymia. It is a little different than major depression or chronic depression. Have you ever received that
label, Dysthymia?
CRISTA ANNE: I have not.
PINSKY: OK. So, you think you have like chronic recurrent depression? Is that right?
CRISTA ANNE: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: These are different things. OK. And, in terms of how you figure the sexuality piece of your story figures into this, what is the point you
are trying to make?
CRISTA ANNE: The point I am trying to make is that -- life -- masturbation is my life pack. It alleviates some of my depressive episodes and
reconnects me with the pleasurable positive aspect of life.
It is a tool in dealing with my stress, dealing my panic. Before I went on this medication, I could orgasm in two or three minutes. So, it is not
like I was disappearing for 25, 30 minutes to take care of business. It was something where I could go in bathroom, nobody knew.
I reconnected with a pleasurable centerpiece. And, I was able to go on with my day without having to take rescue medication. But, I take my
regular antidepressant every day. I am also prescribed rescue Klonopin for panic attacks.
PINSKY: OK.
CRISTA ANNE: And those make me groggy. And those make me a less effective parent.
PINSKY: Right.
CRISTA ANNE: So, I want my orgasms back. I want my life pack back. And beyond that, I want to start conversations about the loss of orgasm with
antidepressants or with any other medications that cause --
PINSKY: OK. Hold your thought. I think that to me is where there is a lot to be gained because, again, it can disrupt relationships. It can make
people feel impaired. And, they often feel as though they cannot go anywhere to discuss this. And, it is something they should be talking
about with their doctors.
Speaking of doctors, I am going to bring in the behavior bureau to talk about this topic. And, later, online controversy. Should your little
children be able to walk home alone? These kids did. And, now the parents are in big -- potentially, in big trouble. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: This woman says an orgasm does more for her mood than any pill. But her antidepressant medications are killing her
personal pleasure. So, she is taking her quest to regain her solo sex life to the internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with our behavior bureau, Judy, Erica and Leeann. We are talking about that woman whom you saw just there who has started
#orgasmquest. She says amongst other things that antidepressants affected her sexual responsiveness. We -- those of use that work in mental health
know that.
She now is on a new antidepressant. Let us call -- so-called, Tricyclic, old fashion, Tricyclic antidepressant. And, now she is supplementing that
or she says enhancing that with her -- Judy you are shaking your head already. She says she is enhancing the antidepressant and blogging about
it. Why do you say no?
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, it sounds like she was one of those people that did not respond to an SSRI.
PINSKY: She says she did. But the sexual blunting was too disturbing for her.
HO: Got it. OK. So, she did not like the side effect. But, also when they moved her to Tricyclic --
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: -- actually has some more side effects, but sometimes it is way better for some people in other areas.
PINSKY: All right. Now she is saying that she is supplementing with the oxytocin that builds up when she leaves herself to orgasm. OK. So, this
is my problem with it. I just feel like, "Hey, if I totally support the woman`s right to give herself an orgasm. This is not a knock on that."
What I am saying is there a lot of misinformation about what that kind of thing actually does. There is not lasting effect. You are not changing
brain chemistry for the better in the long-run. There are other effective ways of treating depression like cognitive behavioral therapy if you do not
want to go the route of medication or you do not like the side effects.
PINSKY: OK. Leeanne.
TWEEDEN: You know, Dr. Drew, I am all for people doing whatever in their relationships and whatever to themselves. I think what I have is problem
is that she has young children in their household. She is doing this in public. There are just some things, Dr. Drew, that do not need to be
public.
PINSKY: You mean talking about it publicly?
TWEEDEN: Yes.
PINSKY: I see. Got it. Got it.
TWEEDEN: Talking about it publically. Why do we need to consume this part of her personal life? I mean I know she was in -- she was in the sex trade
or whatever before. But, this is a personal thing she is going through.
When I heard her in the last segment, she said, "I take medication now. It is the greatest thing. I feel alive and like living for the first time."
And that she has orgasms to make herself feel better when she has depressive episodes or whatever.
PINSKY: Episodes, yes.
TWEEDEN: But, if you on medication that makes you feel good, why are you depressed again, if you have the medication to combat that?
PINSKY: All right. Hold on. I will get her back in a minute. I want to hear from Erica first.
AMERICA: Yes. I mean I think it is good that she is bringing to light this issue altogether because yes with antidepressants and other mental
health drugs as well as other drugs, altogether, there are sexual side effects that I think a lot of times people are too shy to talk to their
doctor about it.
This needs to be an open thing, an open dialogue, with that absolutely. But, with the -- with her -- her -- like Judy was saying her tactic of
using the masturbation as this tool, what is coming up in my mind, Dr. Drew, is could this be an obsessive thing? Could this be a way of kind of,
you know, of --
HO: Checking around.
AMERICA: -- getting around, dealing with what is -- checking out. Exactly.
PINSKY: OK. OK. OK. So --
AMERICA: She should be doing other things.
PINSKY: So, there is lots of different things raised for those of us that work in this field. So, Crista Anne, let us bring you back in here. A
couple things. Let me -- I have three or four myself.
One is, good job addressing taboos and empowering female sexuality, that kind of thing. And, you are clearly making some progress there. My
question is, are you working with a physician? Are you following doctor`s orders or are you treating yourself?
CRISTA ANNE: No. I am following doctor`s orders to the letter.
PINSKY: OK. And, Judy brought up the issue of cognitive behavioral therapies or other psychotherapeutic interventions. Are you getting
anything besides the self-stimulation and the pills?
CRISTA ANNE: Yes. I also see a therapist.
PINSKY: OK. So, Judy, she got a team around her, which we would all again applaud that. And, then -- gosh, this brings up so many issues.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Why do not you comment on what my team has said so far, Crista Anne?
CRISTA ANNE: As far as over sharing, the conversations that have come out of this are beautiful. If you do not want to read this, then do not read
it. I am not forcing it upon anyone. The hash tag is there. If you do not like it, do not read it. That is fine. It is not for everybody. I am
not for everybody. And, that is OK.
TWEEDEN: Do you think about your children?
PINSKY: Right. How about Leeann`s concerns about your children reading this later?
CRISTA ANNE: My children will be age appropriately aware of what I do as they grow up. I was raised in an -- I would call sex positive way. I was
age appropriately aware that my parents had sex. My children are going to be age appropriately aware of sex as it comes up.
PINSKY: But, you do not think there is going to be a cringe factor for these kids? I worry they will -- my kids have to deal with the fact that I
discuss this stuff on television, Judy.
HO: Right. Exactly.
(LAUGHING)
CRISTA ANNE: Yes. There definitely might be a cringe factor. And, we will deal with that as it comes up. We will have an open dialogue and we
will find out. And, you know, maybe I am screwing up but I am doing the best I can.
PINSKY: All right. I am going to interrupt you.
CRISTA ANNE: I turned out well with this kind of way, so I think that my kids will as well.
PINSKY: All right. I am going to interrupt and just say that we have to go out. But, please let us know on Twitter @drdrewhln. Let us know what
is going on. What your thoughts are? This is obviously very controversial topic, but she is -- I got to commend her.
My thoughts are, basically, that she is doing something to address -- I mean I got to do something about stigma and mental health. She is actually
doing something. And, it may not be the right thing. You tell us whether you think it is or is not.
Also, empowering female sexuality. Good thing? Bad Thing? Is television the right place for this? You tell us on Twitter and on our Facebook page
as well. The good news is, she has a team. She is dealing with this comprehensively.
I think most of the issues we have brought up here she is aware of and trying to deal with and following the direction of her team. I hope her
team agrees that, that is in fact what she is doing.
Next up, it is a story that has generated a huge online debate. Not just this story, this is another one. Should parents encouraged their
children`s independence by allowing them -- these little kids to walk home alone? Please check us out on Instagram @drdrewhln and we are back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTE: This Maryland couple allowed their two young children, ages 10 and 6, to walk home from a park without adult
supervision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER MEITIV, FATHER OF THE LITTLE KIDS WHO WALKED FROM PARK ALONE: It is the first time they were walking from about a mile away. Somebody saw
them walking down Georgia and called the police. The police call initiated a case with a child protective services.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Now, Danielle and Alexander Meitiv could face neglect charges. The parents have also been thrust into the center of
a national debate over a parenting style called Free Range.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELLE MEITIV, MOTHER OF THE LITTLE KIDS WHO WALKED FROM PARK ALONE: For us, free range kids means nothing very radical. It means we are giving our
children the childhood that we had, the idea that kids can be trusted to go down the block, to play at the park, to walk home from school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The Meitiv insist they are teaching their children independence. But, critics and CPS say they are putting their
children in harm`s way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Video from the "Washington Post" was included in the T.V. you had just watched there. And, back now, Vanessa, Annaliese and Leeann for our
most tweeted story of the night that have also been shared on Facebook, more than 5,000 times so far.
The parents whom you saw there, Danielle and Alexander Meitiv could face charges of neglect. Danielle, in fact, the mom will join me in just a
minute. Leeann, the family lives about a mile from a park.
TWEEDEN: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: My question is, you have a little boy, A. Would you allow him to make that walk and B. Did your parents let you do something like that?
TWEEDEN: Well, I will start with B first, Dr. Drew. Yes, when I was a kid, we would walk almost a mile to the park. With that being said, I
think today it is just a different day and age.
I would not let my son do that now. And, it is not that I would be a helicopter parent. I mean he climbs all over things. He falls down and
you know gets boo boos. And, you know, that is part of life and part of learning.
I watched her interview, I think, on the "Today" show. And, she said are kids are young enough but they are old enough to know what is going on.
They can handle themselves.
And, I think people are -- they are understating the children and overstating the harm or that could come to them. And, my point here is,
you know what? What does a 6-year-old girl going to do when a 20-year-old tries to take her off the street?
PINSKY: Yes.
TWEEDEN: There is nothing she can do.
PINSKY: Vanessa.
TWEEDEN: So, that is what I am concerned about.
PINSKY: Vanessa, neglect, yes or no?
BARNETT: If we stay in the state of fear that everyone is going to snatch our kids off the street then we are going to raise -- I am sorry we will
raise little punks. Like, look, I walked home from school. I rode my bike around the neighborhood. I walked to the corner store, and I am still
here.
The issue I am having is that we are overstating stranger danger and that we are not looking at the facts. And, studies show, children are more
likely to be molested by a family member than they are to be taken off the streets by a stranger.
So, now are we supposed to not let them play with their cousins or the uncles or the aunts? We have to be smart. I know maybe a mile is too much
for my daughter, but I know around the corner it will be OK at the right age. After all, every family chooses what is right.
PINSKY: Vanessa. It is a scary time, I agree we need to leave families alone.
BARNETT: It has always been a scary time, Dr. Drew, but they just did not start snatching kids off the street yesterday.
PINSKY: Well, it has been bad the last 50 years or so. But, it has been better in the last 15 or 20 years. But, I will tell you what. You are
absolutely right that most kids that are abducted or abused are abused by somebody in their life.
Maybe not an immediate co-worker or something they worked with or you might work with a childcare person or a family member. It may be somebody who
came by the park every day, but it is somebody whom people know.
Now, the children`s father alleges a CPS worker actually threatened to remove the kids immediately if he did not sign, it was called a safety plan
that mandated the children to be supervised at all times.
Now, Anneelise, my question is, he asked to see an attorney or have an attorney look at this before he signed it. Did CPS cross the line? Or
they just -- We do reports on this show all the time where CPS drop the ball. Are they just trying to protect themselves against the potential
liability?
GOETZ: They are trying to protect themselves. I think what we really have here is an overzealous CPS agent, right? Which is better than the latter,
because typically we see the other problem.
And, yes, I think it was unfortunate this guy was forced into signing this without, you know, being able to consult with his attorney. But, what we
are trying to do for CPS in general is we want to have them be able to retain that power to take the children from an unsafe environment.
And, this is something they can put in their file and say, "We left and made sure that those kids were going to be supervised. And, so, we did our
job. No one come back at us about this."
PINSKY: A little bit -- a little bit sort of bureaucratic. I got the mom, Danielle. Now, Danielle, the thing I am interested in, you have your
children carry these cards, these free range cards. Can you tell us about that? I have to go to break in about 40 seconds.
But before we do, it is a card that says, quote, "I am not lost. I am a free range kid. I know never to go off with strangers." This is the card
they carry. "I like being outside and exploring the world. If you are a grownup, you probably do the same things when you are kids, so please do
not be alarmed." Where did you hear about this? I have never heard of this.
DANIELLE MEITIV, MOTHER WHO ALLOW HER LITTLE KIDS TO WALK ALONE: I got these off a website, free-range kids by Lenore Skenazy. They are
brilliant. The kids love them. They got their phone numbers on them. They got our names in it and the children`s names on them. And, when I
asked my son or when a reporter asked my son do you feel safer with these? He said, "No, I already felt safe." But they make the grown-ups feel
better.
PINSKY: Anneelise, you really like that, huh? Well, Danielle, hold on a second. I have to go to break. We are taking a poll. I believe you can
get it -- is it hlntv.com? That is our website. OK. That is where the poll is. The question is, is this child neglect.
And, if you like more HLN, you can take us live with you wherever you go. Get our HLN to go app. It is available for Apple products and Android
devices. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with the most tweeted story of the night. Vanessa, Anneelise and Leeann here with me. We are talking about a Maryland couple that could
face neglect charges.
They are not neglectful parents but they allow their children 10-year-old son and 6-year-old daughter to walk home from Park. Danielle Meitiv is
still with us. She is the mother at the center of the storm. Danielle, let me just ask this off the top, what do you say to your critics?
MEITIV: I say that it is sad that we are so afraid of the world when we know that all the data says the world is a safer place. And, if we cannot
let our children do what we were allowed to do, what does that say about our parenting? We are not doing --
PINSKY: Now, Leeann, you and I we were talking -- well, OK, the blame. You never talk in the green room before the show. We were talking about
how back in the day people used to walk to school.
My mother told me about five years ago, I was discussing this very issue about my own kids, and she goes, "Yeah, yeah." But, we would walk behind
you a couple blocks and you did not know it.
TWEEDEN: It is interesting.
PINSKY: There was concerns back then, too. We just did not talk about it so much.
TWEEDEN: Sure. And, can I ask Danielle a question?
PINSKY: Yes, of course.
TWEEDEN: I mean a mile seems long for a young child to walk by themselves. I understand you are hands off parenting and you want your kids to be free
range. But, what about going to the park and then letting them do whatever they do in the park just so that you know that nobody is going to snatch
your kid off the street? Because you do not know because if that happens, you never get a redo.
MEITIV: The thing is, given how unlikely that is, I am pretty sure that is not going to happen. And, in fact, I need my kids to be independent. They
need to learn confidence. The only way they will grow up to be strong, confident adults is by having that freedom and independence. They need to
have that time alone.
PINSKY: My kids had to deal with my anxiety and they are pretty strong and independent. Where do you stand right now with CPS?
MEITIV: We are going to have a meeting with them next week.
PINSKY: What do you think is going to happen?
MEITIV: We have no idea.
PINSKY: Anneelise, any guesses?
GOETZ: Yes. I have a guess. I think that right now, they are trying to cover themselves. I do not think they are like going to see charges on
this. We have an inherent right in this country to parent our children as we see fit, which is why in every state across the country you are allowed
to hit your child, corporal punishment is acceptable in every state. They say that is OK and letting your kid walk to the park is not and that is
neglect? I do not think so. I do not think you will see a prosecutor take this case.
PINSKY: I think that is a profound point, Vanessa. I mean what one -- we can argue all day about the child -- but one, we have measurable adverse
affect. The other, as you are saying there is -- we do not know that it is adverse as Leeann said, though, if it happens, though, it is a one-time
thing.
BARNETT: Each family decides what is right for their family. We cannot raise kids in a bubble. We cannot do it and just because they are 10 and 6
-- maybe a mile is too far for you but a mile is OK for this family. And, at the end of the day, you could you be 16, you could be 26, you could be
56 and taken off the street.
PINSKY: I do not know --
BARNETT: So, we cannot live in this constant --
PINSKY: This whole thing scares me, Vanessa. I do live in fear because we have a scary world we live in.
BARNETT: I am scared when I drop my daughter off at daycare. Does she not go now? I am scared when I get in the car because I want to protect her
life. Do I not drive now? I am scared when I get on a plane. Do I not fly now? We are constantly scared because we are parents. We are always
going to be worried, Dr. Drew, but at what point do you cut the cord?
PINSKY: Leeann.
TWEEDEN: Extra stuff that they are putting our their daughter into the situation -- their kids into this situation that they do not have to. The
dad is at home, he could have gone to the park with them.
PINSKY: All right. But, they are doing this intentionally to build resiliency, grit and all those good things. I want to go to our website,
hlntv.com. You can go there or our Facebook page to vote in tonight`s poll. We are asking if Danielle or her husband should be charged with
child neglect. Right now, 82 percent of you say no, this is not child neglect. So, Danielle, it seems like you have the support of the populous.
BARNETT: And Vanessa.
PINSKY: And, Vanessa.
GOETZ: And, Anneelise.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And, Anneelise. Half my panel. You do not have me because it makes me too nervous, but the public at large seems to support you.
MEITIV: Thank God. Hopefully, they can convince CPS too.
PINSKY: Yes. It is a very challenging situation. I mean we all frequently report in this show about CPS dropping the ball or not following
through or leaving things dangling, perhaps or not trusting their instincts when they see things. Leeann, what is up?
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, I just -- I want to say this. I am so happy that those kids have two parents there that do care about them.
PINSKY: Well, there you go.
TWEEDEN: And, I do not like nanny states, either. So, I just pray that nothing happens to your children.
PINSKY: Yes. Right. I think that is it. So, we all -- here is the deal. We all value the autonomy of being parents in this country. We do not want
a nanny state. We do want resilient and grit -- children that can have grit and be able to, you know, support themselves and defend themselves and
flexibly work in the world.
I do not know if this is the way to do it, but I do not think that again our state should necessarily be criminalizing people that are doing their
job. These are two parents together raising kids as best they can.
And, you are right, Anneelise. We allow kids to be hit by their parents, which we measurably know has problems. Are we really going to come down or
parents like this?
Please DVR us then you can watch us anytime. I hope you will stay with us and again get in on our online discussion about this topics from tonight
@drdrewhln and our Facebook page and we will have an after show there. We will see you there.
"FORENSIC FILES," starts now.
END
