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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Historic Talks Between U.S. And Cuba Getting Underway; Details Of Terrifying Last Moments Of Doomed AirAsia Flight 8501 Start Coming Out; The Debate Over Free-Range Parenting

Aired January 21, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: So one of the emotional highlights from the President's State of the Union speech last night was that salute to Alan Gross. He's the American contractor just recently freed from a Cuban prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: And after years in prison, we are overjoyed that Alan Gross is back where he belongs. Welcome home, Alan. We're glad you're here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So now the historic talks are getting underway between the United States and Cuba, arriving in Havana, the highest level U.S. delegation in decades. The talks with the Cuban government are aimed at eventually loosening that trade embargo that's been in place since 1962.

The meetings were scheduled for today and tomorrow. More talks likely in the future, both Havana and Washington will be locations for those. That's to come later.

Our CNN's Patrick Oppmann joins me live now from Havana. I was just looking at some of the pictures we were rolling before we got to your live shot at the harbor. And it looks they may actually be there. Can you let us know sort of where they are in the arrivals, and who's there and how big a deal this looks from the Cuban perspective?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And we've got some new development which is Assistant U.S. Secretary of State Roberta Jacobson, the highest ranking U.S. official to come to Cuba in over 35 years, has just landed. She talked with our -- with CNN's Karl Penhaul at the Havana airport, and said she was delighted to be here in Cuba for these historic talks.

So we are -- this long U.S. policy of trying to isolate Cuba, solely being shipped away to where it -- the President's announcement last night that he would push Congress to lift the embargo or this high ranking U.S. official, the highest ranking U.S. official to come to Cuba in 35 years just landing. And she's going to take part in really the second part of these talks this morning. We had talks between the Cuban -- U.S. officials about migration concerns ensuring that migration between Cuba and the United States is safe and legal trying to cut down in some of those risky trips that you see people make on boats to Florida from Cuba.

Roberta Jacobson is going to focus on the political part of this. How the U.S. and Cuba can reestablish diplomatic relations. U.S. officials feel that this could happen quite quickly, perhaps in before April where Raul Castro and President Obama are due to meet during (inaudible) America's. Cuban officials have a slightly longer wish list. They're pushing out for more of these historic changes. So we're just going to have to see, you know, how these negotiations play out. It's going to take a while. You know, we're talking about dismantling decades of a very long held U.S. policy towards Cuba, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And we've already seen one hand shake between Raul Castor and President Obama. This will be pretty historic to see the two of them meeting if when.

Can I just ask you the logistics, because I think a lot of Americans who are watching this right now, they have a big question, when can I fly to Cuba? Can I use my American banking credit cards in Cuba? How will it affect Americans in a very short term?

OPPMANN: There's still an embargo, Ashleigh. And there's still travel restrictions, but both have been loosened, particularly this travel restrictions, some people say that basically, President Obama, with a wink, has done away with the travel restrictions. Now there're 12 categories that, as of today, if you say, "I belong to one of these categories, I'm coming down for religious reasons, journalism, to take part in a sporting event, some sort of conference," you can come to Cuba. Now who's going to be checking that you really did what you said you were going to be doing in Cuba? It's really quite tough to say.

In terms of using your American credit cards, the answer there is no. President Obama has -- instructed officials to take steps but still, you know, this is what's needs to be worked out. So, President Obama saying he will allow people to use their credit cards, but right now if I go and use my AmEx, the Cuban government can't use it's -- can't accept it. So that's still some time off, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, this is such an intriguing, you know, situation to be in and seeing these first high level meetings. Patrick, keep an eye on things for us and throughout the day, let us know how they progressed, if they actually really sending information from them.

Thanks, Patrick.

So, other news now. It climbed at an astronomical rate and then it crashed. We're following the latest investigation information that was trying to determine how AirAsia flight 8501 actually went down in the sea. What the new clues are now showing up.

And they believe in teaching their kids independence as so many parents do. But did these parents go too far when they let their young children walk home from a park all by themselves? Yes, walk home from a park all by themselves like you used to do in the 70s. Well, it ain't the 70s anymore. Find out what's happened to these parents.

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BANFIELD: Details of the terrifying last moments of doomed flight 8501 are starting to emerge because we now know that that plane was climbing at an astonishing rate. 6,000 feet per minute, that's twice as fast as what that plane was actually built for. Eventually the jet stalled and plunged into the Java Sea according to Indonesia's transportation minister.

And joining me now is CNN Aviation Analyst, Mary Schiavo who's been questioning the plane's rate of ascent for weeks now.

I'm going to ask you about why on earth the pilot would ever consider ascending at that rate? But first, I got to ask you because we all think about plane crashes, and what it would be like to be onboard. And knowing these facts now the way you know them, what would that have been like for the people who were on the flight?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, on a very rapid ascent on the climb up, it would have put some g-forces on them, one or two g's and they would have been driven down into their seats. They would have felt like they were being pushed down into their seats maybe approximately twice their weight or one and a half times their weight. So they would feel very heavy. And they would know that something was amiss.

BANFIELD: And then what about the stall? What would happen once the aircraft stalled?

SCHIAVO: When an aircraft stalls, obviously the air flow over the wings is disrupted and you don't have enough to keep the plane literally up in the air. And so the plane shutters. It will shutter and shake. And then what happens is it falls off to one side.

And at that point, depending upon what's going on if the pilots have gained control, what they would do is put the nose down and then literally kind of dive out of the stall. Or it can fall of one side, not regaining control and it can flutter to the earth like a leaf, or it can continue to dive straight on down.

I suspect here because it broke apart into three pieces it probably came down perhaps like a leaf.

BANFIELD: What about the idea that a pilot would climb at that rate? We've had lots of reports of terrible weather. Is there any reason why a pilot would do something this incredibly risky and dangerous?

SCHIAVO: Well, no. I don't think he would because there are two reasons. One, this exceeds the climb rate, even the maximum climb rate and remember at this high altitude that isn't the climb rate. The climb rate of this altitude should have been down around 1,200 to 1,800 feet per minute. So roughly a third of the 6,000.

And what happens if you exceed the climb you'll risk losing your engines. The engines can have a flame out and then you have no power at all. It becomes a heavy glider. So, I don't think the pilots would have done that voluntarily.

And the airbus should not allow the pilot to do that unless some of the usual protective override will shut down.

BANFIELD: It justifies logic on so many levels and there's still so much still to find out. Mary Schiavo, thank you for your time.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Thank you for your insights as well.

The CEO of AirAsia is still speaking about this tragedy.

CNN's aviation correspondent Richard Quest had a chance to sit down with Tony Fernandes and talk about the haunting moment that he learned that his airline had lost flight 8501.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY FERNANDES, AIRASIA CEO: At that moment with that phone call will haunt me forever. We've carried 250 million people, 13 years very safely. And it is not something that you can really put into words when that call comes through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So far, the bodies of 53 of the 162 people who were onboard have been recovered and there are still, again, so many questions still left to be answered.

So what was normal at one time may now be considered neglect and illegal. Coming up we're going to talk with some parents who say they let their kids walk from a park. Just walk home from a park, about a mile without a grownup. And they wound up being investigated by Child Protective Services for it.

So, is this the kind of law that you envision in your community? Free range parenting, have you heard of it? Is it OK? Is it illegal? And where do you come down on letting your kid get a little freedom? That's next.

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BANFIELD: A mother and father in Silver Spring, Maryland is under investigation for child neglect for something that was considered pretty normal 20 years ago.

They let their son and their daughter walk home alone from a playground on a Saturday afternoon last month, about a mile. And the children told their story to "The Washington Post."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAFI MEITLIV: My name is Rafi and I'm 10 years old.

DVORA MEITLIV: My name is Dvora and I am 6 and I am in first grade.

R. MEITLIV: So we were driving home from somewhere, me and my dad and my sister. We drove past the park on spring in Georgia and we stopped and I said "Dad can you please drop us off here so we can play a little and walk home."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So dad agreed. No problem. But someone reported it to the police.

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R. MEITLIV: What are doing here? And I said, "We're walking home." And he said, "Is your home close?" Yeah, I said "Yeah, it just down the street." He said, "OK, we need to talk to your dad."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So the kids got a ride home but it was in the police car. And now Child Protective Services is involve in this whole endeavor. Their mother, Danielle Meitiv joins me from Washington. CNN digital correspondent and editor-at-large Kelly Wallace is here and HLN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson both live with me in New York.

Now, Danielle, I'm going to start with you. Where does this case stand right now, are you in trouble?

DANIELLE MEITIV, UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR "FREE-RANGE" PARENTING: We don't know, I mean, so far CPS has threatened us and show up at our door with a police officer so I'd say we're pretty much in trouble. We're not sure what the next steps though are. We have a meeting with them either this week or next week and then we'll find out what they think.

BANFIELD: So, in light of everything that's happens since this walk home. Do you think you did anything wrong?

D. MEITIV: Absolutely not. All we did was let our kids go to the park. And we're just amazed that this is, you know, such a big deal and this is considered neglect because --

BANFIELD: Have you --

D. MEITIV: -- this is what we do.

BANFIELD: Have you been told by any of the government officials that you have to behave in a certain way until this is somehow adjudicated?

D. MEITIV: They haven't -- right now, although I'm sure that wouldn't like it if we did it again. At the time when my husband spoke to them on the December 20th, they did make us sign a plan that said if you don't -- he said, "If you don't sign this plan, we're going to take the kids," and that said, the children must be supervised at all times. So I don't know if that's still on effect, we don't really know what they want from us at this point.

BANDFIELD: So I'm going to bring in Kelly Wallace with some of the government position on this because they've actually weighed in your writing and covering this case.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT, EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yeah. Yes exactly, you know, no surprise basically because of the state confidentiality laws. They can't comment on this specific of this case, but the Montgomery County Department of Health and Human Services also went on to say that like all department of Social Service in Maryland, Montgomery County Child Protective Services is require to respond to all calls from community members and law enforcement about possible neglect. And they go on and say that neglect means that if by leaving a child unattended, the child was facing any risk of harm or any mental injury, and that that's what they're looking into.

BANFIELD: So when it comes to unattended, this gets -- it's a sticky wicket --

WALLACE: Yes.

BANFIELD: -- let's just say that because not every state has laws, in fact most states do not have laws about leaving your children unattended which is interesting, particularly on the home. Let me read Maryland's unattended children law. "Children under eight may not be left attended in a house or a car."

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: A-ha.

BANFIELD: A-ha says Joey Jackson.

WALLACE: Exactly.

BANFIELD: "Parents who violate could be convicted of misdemeanor punishable by up to $500 fines, 30 days in jail or both." But house or car is not a park or a sidewalk.

JACKSON: It certainly isn't. So couple of things, Ashleigh, first, allow me to tell Danielle that she has beautiful children.

BANFIELD: Yes.

JACKSON: How wonderful was that interview. We just want -- you're more than welcome, Danielle. We just wanted to go to the park and all of the sudden the police came and I said, you know, what my dad's around. Look that's the first thing. The second thing advice for Danielle, not that she needs any or any other parent, is just continue to love, cherish, and care for your children.

And of course there's the law and what does the law say, true to Kelly's point, and it basically says, "Listen, if you subjecting your children to unreasonable harm, we have a right to step in." And so what the government does Ashleigh, Kelly, Danielle is it balances very important principles. Number one, the right of a parent to care for their child, and to impart values that they think are most appropriate, and we all the values that we impart.

But number two, there's the recognition that the government can step in, but if the risk is unreasonable, and that's the point. And that statute, not applicable, they're outside, they're not at a home, they're not in a car, strict letter of the statute --

BANFIELD: Oh, we found your lawyer.

JACKSON: -- doesn't act -- you're innocent.

BANFIELD: Yes, Danielle, we found your attorney.

JACKSON: You're innocent, Danielle.

D. MEITLIV: He's hired. He's hired.

WALLACE: But, boy, I would have just look and say that part of this is all getting out of hand. What's happening to Danielle and her family is not the first case. We had a South Carolina mom arrested for leaving her nine-year old alone in a park. A mom in Florida arrested for leaving her seven-year old walk home for the park. I think we need to sort take a step back here. Our parents being arrested or investigated for doing something, again, that we did 20 years ago when crime was much lower than it is day.

JACKSON: That's a great point, Kelly. Really is.

BANFIELD: Go back to the 60s and 70s, full disclosure, my sister and I to have bus city by ourselves.

WALLACE: Yes.

BANFIELD: I was in first grade, she was in fifth. Everyday, we loaded ourselves onto the city bus and went downtown to a sketchy neighborhood --

JACKSON: And Ashleigh is still here. And look how well she's doing.

BANFIELD: We live to tell about it. So, Danielle the reason I ask you that is because I was afraid let my children walk to school and schools across the street. Times have changed. We get all sorts of awful report about children who're picked out of their bedrooms. I mean, God forbid, they're picked out of their bedrooms, they're picked off the street, they're picked off in parks, and they're pick off on sidewalks. And I'm just wondering, have we changed as a society because we're more aware of predators and does not play into this whole metric.

D. MEITIV: I think that's exactly right. I think that because we see it all the time, because it's really exciting news when it does happen, we think it happens more often than it really does. And we really are over estimating the danger that's post to our kids and really underestimating them. The world is a lot safer now. I grew up in New York City and I was allowed to do the same thing, take busses, and crime was higher then. So I don't see why my kids can't do it now when the world is actually safer.

BANFIELD: How many of us remember the rule home by street fight. Everybody of our age --

D. MEITIV: Yes.

BANFIELD: -- I mentioned that, too. They all heard home by street --

JACKSON: And I never listen.

BANFIELD: And look how well you've done, Joey.

WALLACE: And what have you done with that.

BANFIELD: Thank you to all three of you.

WALLACE: Thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Danielle Meitiv, keeps us posted on your case. Kelly Wallace, it's always great coverage on this, and Joey Jackson, you just awesome. I don't know what else to say. You're amazing.

JACKSON: You're most fabulous. Thank you.

BANFIELD: And you will always be my lawyer when I need you.

Be sure to check out Kelly's in depth piece on Danielle's story it's CNN.com, just a great writer, she's a great person. Hey, you're great too for being with us. Thanks for being with us. Wolf starts after this quick break.

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