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Dr. Drew
Daughter Survives Family Massacre; New Reality Show "Sex Box"; Officials Warn About Measles Outbreak
Aired January 26, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a family massacre. A father goes on a rampage. How one of the daughters survived and then called 911 and let
rescuers in with a bullet in her head. Also, tonight, "Sex Box." A new reality show where couples have sex on air inside a box, just like the
name. Let us get started with our most tweeted story of the night. This Disneyland measles outbreak has reunited a fears to -- vaccination in this
country. Take a look at this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): A measles outbreak linked to Disneyland intensifies. What you need to do to protect yourself and your family?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (2): The measles outbreak in the United States.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (3): Trending today, thousands of you are sharing information and concerns about the measles outbreak linked to
Disneyland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (1): How quickly this outbreak can spread.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (4): Health officials say the outbreak started at Disneyland in December. They are warning anyone that has not
been vaccinated to stay away from the parks and other public places.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (2): The contagious disease is something that can easily be prevented with a simple vaccination.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (2): If you have somebody that is infectious and you are not protected, there is a 90 percent chance you will come down
to the disease.
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PINSKY: Joining me Samantha Schacher, Poptrigger.com; Vanessa Barnett, Hiphollywood.com; Loni Coombs, attorney. Sam, what are the latest numbers?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER": OK. So, the total infection count changes daily, Dr. Drew, in both directions. But, over the weekend,
the number of cases hit 85 in seven different states and Mexico. Now, California has had 59 cases since December. Forty-two of those cases are
linked to Disneyland.
And, just last week, the health department said that Disneyland and the measles outbreak, it is over with. Only to turn around and say, "Oh, wait!
Never mind." When they discovered that one of the employees did come down with measles. And, now there are five known cases among park workers.
PINSKY: Yes. It is really serious. I mean we thought what measles is. We thought it was nearly eradicated in this country. It is as you heard in
that piece a highly contagious virus. It is airborne. So, if you come in even proximity, a reasonable proximity, you will 90 -- percent of the time
if you are not properly immunized, you will get this.
This is not like Ebola where you are have to be exposed to fluid and the tears, and the blood and semen of somebody. You know, late phase of this
disease, these people are contagious for weeks and they are contagious just by being near them. You will 90 percent of the time get this. It causes a
dreadful epidemic. It starts with fever, runny nose, coughing, red eyes, sore throat. And, then this so-called morbilliform rash, measily rash.
And, there are lots of complications, including for pregnant women, low birth weight babies, for people ear infection, diarrhea, pneumonia can be
life-threatening, encephalitis, seizures; life threatening, the swelling of the brain in children, can destroy brain tissue and cause destruction and
developmental problems. Two in every thousand children will die during an outbreak. In fact the early 1990s, 123 deaths. Vanessa, what is your take
on this?
SCHACHER: Wow.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I believe in vaccinations. Let me first and foremost say that. But, what I will say is I understand when
parents choose not to. And, this is an extreme case --
PINSKY: When they choose not to --
BARNETT: When they choose not to --
PINSKY: -- because they have never seen an epidemic. They do not understand how dreadful they are.
BARNETT: Do not understand it. But let me tell you, I have a daughter. She is 1-1/2 years old. And, when I got that chart for the vaccinations
and looked at the dozens of shots they wanted to give her before she was even allowed to eat solid foods, I was scared.
So, what I did. I did my research. And, there are different stages you can do, different schedules you can do and different ways you can vaccinate
your child. What I will say is that they just tell you, vaccinate and they do not give you information. They do not tell you why -- they do not tell
you the importance --
PINSKY: Well, I will tell you -- Vanessa --
BARNETT: Let me just shoot your kid with a bunch of potent medicine.
PINSKY: Well, Vanessa, listen. That is not OK for patients not to be informed. I will give you that. But, here is how I approach it. Every
vaccine I can get my hands off for my kids as fast as I can get them. And, that is what I done with triplets. They are 22 years old. They are very
healthy.
And, they are not going to get cancer because they have had certain kinds cancer because they have had the HPV vaccine. They are not going to get
meningococcemia in college because they have had that vaccine. They are not going to get measles. They have properly vaccinated. Let me show you
something --
BARNETT: That is not true. Some of those people at Disneyland contracted measles and they had vaccinations. It is not a full proof.
PINSKY: And guess what? The reason that can happen now is because the viral load in an epidemic can be such that it can even break through the
vaccine. So, again, people who are not being vaccinated getting a powerful viral response are endangering the rest of us.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: In 2010, the comedian Penn and Teller, the comedians, posted a video to illustrate how vaccinations have been far and away more beneficial
than harmful. It has had 1.8 million views. Take a look at this.
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PENN JILETTE, COMEDIAN: You may have heard vaccination causes autism in one out of 110 children. (EXPLICITIVE WORD) that. Total (EXPLICITIVE
WORD). It does not. But, let us imagine it does. Meningitis, hepatitis A and B, flu, mumps, whooping cough, pneumonia, rotavirus, rubella, smallpox,
tetanus, chicken pox.
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PINSKY: The vaccine barrier is preventing the deaths that are being knocked down in the bowling alley on the Teller`s side. Now, Loni, where
should we be drawing the line with the right not to vaccinate? Let me also remind people that we just went through a pertussis epidemic in Southern
California here, a whooping cough, because people are not being -- and by the way, some of that is our fault as physicians not adequately vaccinating
people.
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Yes.
PINSKY: But, Loni where is the line to draw here?
COOMBS: Well, you know, look, Dr. Drew, a lot of people are saying we should make this a law. People should have to follow it. Each state has
different requirements. But, I think that each parent should be able to have the right to choose for their child.
However, with that right to choose comes responsibility. You have to do what Vanessa did. You have to inform yourself. You have to do the
research. And, I will tell you, I think a lot of people heard, you know, a celebrity, I think Jenny McCarthy.
I remember hearing her talk about, and essentially everybody assumed that what she was saying was do not vaccinate. It is a bad thing. A lot of
people say, "Oh! Jenny McCarthy said it." They did not do any further research.
They did not even look to see if that was the correct quote or not, which she now says she backed off that and said, "You know, I do not agree with
it. I am anti-vaccine." And, they just stop vaccining their kids. Well, look, we are now back at a 20-year high for the number of measles cases
that are out there.
PINSKY: And, our vaccine penetration in parts of Los Angeles are lower than in the Southern Sudan, Sam.
SCHACHER: Right. Yes, Dr. Drew, and here is what is also frustrating because a lot of people -- I have been seeing this debate on my Facebook
feed. Wow, it is crazy, this measles outbreak debate. But, this study -- this British study that a lot of people were basing their --
PINSKY: Andrew Wakefield, the British surgeon.
SCHACHER: Yes. Oh my Gosh!
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Who -- he falsified all that information. He was hired by a group of attorneys --
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: -- who wanted to go sue. They paid him half a million dollars to do this study --
PINSKY: That is right.
SCHACHER: -- so they could go sue vaccination companies and have since been retracted.
PINSKY: And, Sam -- most of the kids already had pre-existing developmental problems --
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: -- that might have been autism before he turn around and said --
SCHACHER: I know.
COOMBS: Well --
PINSKY: -- Loni Go ahead.
COOMBS: And, Dr. Drew, the other irresponsible about that is parents who were worried about autism, they went on that and said, "OK, I will not
vaccinate." But, there are other things that they could be doing to help their child if it looks like they have a tendency towards autism that they
might have missed down.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: Further studies legitimate credible studies that give ideas and helpful things to do to help your child if you think they might have
autism. Do not just rely on what some celebrity said or some conclusion. You have to look at the details.
BARNETT: If somebody have one question to the doctor. I have the same concerns. I heard the same celebrity and I just went to the office and
said, "Why is this being -- why is this rhetoric being spread if it is not true?" And, she gave me the same answer. Falsified information. It is
simply just asking questions and doing the research.
PINSKY: Well, not only that. Listen, the way science works, you, guys, it has to be reproduced over and over and over again before it becomes a
convention. And, so, you can just go to the data. There are credible sources out there that have reproduced the data over and over again.
I got to tell you, though, I posted something on Twitter today that I thought was really funny. It was from the Onion. I got to read it for
you. It was a whole sort of tongue in cheek piece about this mother trying to decide whether or not to vaccinate and she concludes as follows:
"Look, I have done the research on these issues, like you, Vanessa. I read the statistics. I have carefully considered the costs and benefits. There
is simply no question in many mind, this mother says, that inciting a nationwide health emergency by unleashing a disease that can kill 20
percent or more of its victims is the right one for my child." I mean that is the thinking. That is the thinking.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: That is not what I am saying.
PINSKY: But that is the thinking. You are against vaccination. It is not rational thinking.
BARNETT: But, I am not saying against vaccination. Dr. Drew, is not it a little arsenide to give a child dozens of shots? Like why cannot it be a
more of a phase or why do not they preach the system that you can have more of -- not so aggressive schedule for some of these vaccines? They are just
too many too young sometimes.
PINSKY: But they are not, though. That is the thing. And, it is fine if you want to change it, of course. But, it should -- The data has been --
again, it has been researched over and over and over again. What is the best schedule for the children? This is why it is given the way it is.
Next up, more on this outbreak and the fears debate over parents who are set against vaccinations. And, later a family tragedy. What led a father
to gun down his entire family? We are back after this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): More and more parents are deciding not to vaccinate their children.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I am glad she has a vaccination, for sure
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Yes. For sure because we would not have suspected that.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): We talked about it. We did have that discussion. And, you know, we came to the conclusion that the positives
for outweigh the negative.
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PINSKY: Back with our behavior bureau, Leeaan Tweeden, radio host; Spirit, television host; Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist. And, we are talking
about the measles outbreak that started in Disneyland and has spread to seven states.
The debate over where a parent`s right not to vaccinate the child can infringe on another`s right to be protected from that child that is
unvaccinated. This controversy is still raging. Judy, what is your take?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, I do not think that it is right to mandate any vaccines for any family. Then there is a few
reasons for this. The ones that I mainly concerned about is, the government should really not dictate people`s personal medical decisions.
There are religious groups that do not believe that certain ingredients in vaccines --
PINSKY: Judy. Judy. Wait, wait.
HO: I am not finished.
PINSKY: Wait, wait. Just a second. Should there be no such thing as public health administration? We should just eliminate the whole
discipline of public health administration?
HO: I am not saying that we should eliminate it completely, but think about the rights we are infringing upon by asking for mandated vaccines.
You can recommend practices. But in what other area in public health do we actually have a way of checking that everybody followed that protocol?
PINSKY: Well, we have things that we can anticipate that can endanger other people that we do not allow people to do like once they are infected,
they can be quarantined. We can do that to people. Spirit, we can put someone in a quarantine if they are endangering our people. How is it
substantively different to require a vaccination before they become a problem for others?
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST/T.V. HOST: Because the minute that do you that, then you infringe upon the rights of the people, which is what the
country is founded on. But, you know, the interesting thing here, Dr. Drew, is that I blame the entire public health community.
And, believe it or not -- I know that sounds counter intuitive, but we have not had enough voices out there to explain the why in the last several
generations. We keep forcing it and say, "You need to do it," but we have not explained why. We have not explained what an epidemic means.
And, we have not say, "Hey, listen. A hundred years ago, hundreds of thousands of children were dying behind these diseases. We have gotten
them under control. And, this is how we keep you and your family safe by continuing to do this."
So, we have not explained why we vaccinate. We simply tell people to vaccinate, force it down their throat. And, then they think, I have the
right to choose without really making an informed decision and that is the problem.
PINSKY: Spirit, I completely agree with you. But, as someone who has been trying to educate the public for a long time, I can tell you, it really
does not start to change behavior until there is an event. I noticed this with the flu vaccine too.
CLANTON: And, you know what? It starts in the classroom -- No. Drew, we have to change our education.
PINSKY: Well, I agree. We have to teach biology.
CLANTON: We have to explain to children --
PINSKY: We have to teach biochemistry. And, then people will understand it.
CLANTON: History --
PINSKY: History too. I agree.
CLANTON: -- If we do not know our history, we are doomed to repeat it.
PINSKY: I agree. Leeann, do you see what I am getting at here? Why is it OK for government to have the right to quarantine after someone is ill, but
we are having a problem giving somebody something that would prevent the need for quarantine?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTAOR: Right, Dr. Drew. For me, look, I was vaccinated as a child. I vaccinated my 16-month-old son. When I was in
the school system in Manassas, Virginia, my father -- we went overseas when I was a kid.
Before I came back, and was allowed to go back into the school system for the next year, I had to be vaccinated. I had that -- you know, I have that
scar here where I had everything put into my system, because they did not want me to bring back things from a foreign country back into our school
system.
Look, I believe -- you know, vaccines are -- it is for a herd mentality, right? So, when farmers vaccinate their cows, they have to vaccinate all
of them, Dr. Drew or it does not work. Right?
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
TWEEDEN: Because, if some are not and some are sick, the ones that are sick are going to get everyone sick. So, that is why we done it. And, you
are right, history is going to repeat itself. But, it skipped a generation. So, there is a generation of families that do not even
understand what it is like to go, "Oh, measles, killed thousands of kids. Well, we have not seen that." So, they get laid and they think that they
cannot vaccinate their children.
PINSKY: That is the point.
TWEEDEN: And, then all of a sudden, now there is an outbreak. And, people are like, "Whoops."
PINSKY: They have never seen a sick child.
TWEEDEN: Exactly.
PINSKY: Because we do such a great job at preventing illnesses and treating illnesses. When a current, in fact, a pediatrician in Ohio
decided to stop accepting or treating children who have not yet been immunized because of the parent`s decision --
TWEEDEN: I like that pediatrician.
PINSKY: -- He recently said on a letter, it said, quote, "If you cannot or will not fully vaccinate your child or children by June 1, 2015, please
understand that you will choose to leave our practice, meaning seek medical care elsewhere."
And, mostly, because he or she, whoever the doctor is, Spirit, does not want another child coming into the practice that will harm the other kids
who might be in the waiting room.
CLANTON: But that is the problem. That is the problem. It is preach, not teach. And, he should be explaining or she should be explaining why it is
important to vaccinate and why they are making that mandate.
All it sounds like is that they are trying to encroach upon freedoms and force people to do something instead of explaining why it is imperative to
do that. We got to stop becoming -- We are reactionary. Our American culture are reactionary and not prevention. And, that is the problem.
TWEEDEN: No. I got to say, you have talked to all of those parents and told them that they should vaccinate their children. And, they are the one
who is telling the doctors, the ones who should know, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Right.
CLANTON: But why?
TWEEDEN: "No. You know, what? I do not want to do that." I am sure they have explained it to them. And, they still do not accept it.
PINSKY: I got to tell you. I get way more arguments and push back on extraordinarily complex medical situations that I promised you --
TWEEDEN: And, you are the doctor.
CLANTON: Exactly.
PINSKY: And, Judy, I am sure you had this experience that they do not argue with the plumber or the carpenter is trying to swing a door about how
to swing the damn door. I mean, they will, "OK, tell me. You are the expert. Tell me what to do."
When it comes to our body, because we all have one, somehow, we feel we have special knowledge, but people do not. I do not treat myself, either.
I put it -- I farm it to somebody with good judgment. And, whatever they tell me is what I do, Judy.
HO: That is right, Dr. Drew. And, there is a lot of misinformation out there and people get carried away. And, they all think that they can
become little physicians and decide what to do for themselves. I am more concerned about people, though, who that is not their situation.
And, their situation is they actually have the information and they still do not want to vaccinate because it is their own decision, because they
decide that somehow religiously it does not sit well with them. The vaccine contains ingredient that morally is repugnant to them. I mean
these are real issues for some people in the population, Dr. Drew
PINSKY: I understand. And, here is what I think about this. I am actually deeply -- as much as I sound as though I am expressing a little
righteous indignation, I am deeply sympathetic to people not wanting their government intruding into their bodies.
I understand that. I really do. But, the government grants us a lot of rights, including things like Princeton free speech. But there are limits
to that. It is a process we have to all understand and come to terms with it, but with our rights and privilege, freedom comes responsibility.
And, one of those responsibilities is for one another. Yes, we as parents are responsible for our kids and believe me, I am sympathetic to that
feeling of not wanting -- I have friends who do not vaccinate. They are not my friends because of that, they are still my friends. I understand.
But, I just wish people could -- there is a way humans think where they do not -- are not very good at assessing risk. We are really not very good at
that and to tell someone, yes there is one out of, you know, 10,000 possibility of a really serious reaction to this vaccine. And, one out of
thousand probability of child dying of measles.
And, by the way, it is a terrible illness, but it is mostly eradicated in this country. But, if there is an epidemic, we cannot make that
assessment. But, here we are now in an epidemic, so it is time to get serious about this. Read the facts. The biology is very clear. Like I
said, for me --
It is funny I got my flu shot this year on the "Queen Latifah" show, and magically just doing that, just the action of getting a vaccine publicly
seem to do more than anything I have ever said about vaccines.
So, I am hoping this measles epidemic does more than all of the words we have spoken about it. And, people making assessment, act accordingly.
Look at the facts, they are pretty clear.
Next up, some facts about a disturbing, disturbing, family massacre. Police say a father snapped and went on a killing rampage. And, later, a
controversial new reality show. Couples having sex in a box on T.V. and then talking about it. Yes, that is right. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WENDELL WARREN, BROTHER OF SHANTAI HALE: My sister, my niece and my grand niece was killed by the baby`s father.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: A family ravaged by the murder of a grandmother, a mother and a child. A 34-year-old Jonathon Walker, the
killer, police say coming home about 5:40, Saturday morning and shooting in the head his common-law-wife, Shantai Hale, her mother, Viola Warren and
Walker`s two children, 7-year-old, Kayla and 12-year-old, Christina, who was able to alert police despite a gunshot wound to the head.
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ROBERT BOYCE, NYPD, BRONX, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: She calls 911 and she identifies her father who is Jonathon Walker as the shooter. He states to
his brother, "What I did I cannot come back from."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa and Loni. We are calling this the "WTF Story" tonight. It is the most shocking and disturbing story that is
dominating social media. Police say a man shot his girlfriend, her mother, his two daughters. Sam, tell us more about what led up to this shooting.
SCHACHER: Heart wrenching, Dr. Drew. What a tragedy. So, several witnesses saw him the night before at a liquor store. And, they say that
he had mentioned that his girlfriend of ten years had cheated on him. They said that he got drunk and he had planned to go home and watch Netflix with
his kids.
Well, he did not go home. He did not show up to the house until 5:40 in the morning. That is when he began shooting. Now, we do know he made one
last call to his brother after the shootings. And, he reportedly said he would rather his daughters be dead than end up in foster care. Moments
later after he made the phone call, that is when he took his own life.
PINSKY: Vanessa, rather the daughters dead than go to foster care, not thinking right.
BARNETT: Obviously not thinking right.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: And, you know, this is probably one of the scariest cases I think we have talked about on the show, because there were no red flags. They
talked about them being together, him and his girlfriend been together for ten years. And, maybe there was a domestic violence situation ten years
ago but nothing within the last few years. No red flags. No mental illness. Nothing that we can really put our finger on --
PINSKY: What if I made the case --
BARNETT: No. I cannot.
PINSKY: Vanessa, come on now.
PINSKY: No. There is none here. This man got drunk. This man did not care. This man did not love his family or his children. This man killed
them in cold blood.
PINSKY: What if we made the case that not caring was something we call narcissistic personality?
BARNETT: Then how does it just pop up?
PINSKY: It does not. It does not. But, it is -- And, by the way, by way of sort of crafting that explanation, I am not justifying this. Oh, no, I
am just trying to understand how this kind of thing can happen.
Now, looking at this guy`s history, he used to play professional basketball overseas. He was a security guard recently until this incident. Is he --
Loni, do you suggest -- is that suggesting a sort of instability in his employment history to you?
COOMBS: You know, I do not know. I mean I know a lot of people who play pro-ball, they work very hard to get to that level. He played it in
Europe. That is a very, you know, prestigious position to be able to do for a couple of years.
Sometimes there is a transition coming back, you know, in the high life, living the fun life there then you come back and you have to get a regular
job like everything else. And that is sometimes can cause, you know, trouble at home.
PINSKY: So, you think maybe he was sort of diminished by having to step down from a professional athletic career to being a security guard.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: But, what about what he said about the kids avoiding foster care. I mean to me it is one of the more strangely despicable things he said.
COOMBS: Yes. Well -- and, Dr. Drew, that does not make any sense because look. If he was upset with his wife thinking -- or his girlfriend,
thinking he was cheating, he could have focused his anger at her and let --
PINSKY: He could have just killed her, Loni.
COOMBS: Yes. Exactly. Because there is a grandmother -- Well, I know that sounds callus, but there is a grandmother who could have taken care of
the kids.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: So, they would not have had to go to foster care. So, that does not make any sense. It is like whatever it was, he decided to take
everyone out. Was it control issue? Was it a possessiveness issue that no one else was good enough to take care of his family if he was not there?
BARNETT: He was evil and cold blooded.
PINSKY: But, Vanessa, I do not disagree with you that this is sort of the nature of evil we are talking about here. He could have been in some
altered state by some other drugs who might have not done this under circumstances, but people on drugs do not typically kill their family.
And, Sam, how many times have we reported on usually men, usually these narcissistic men, who make some sort of declaration that if, you know, "I
cannot have her, or if you are going to try to take them away from me, I am going to kill everybody?"
SCHACHER: Yes. That is how they punish her.
PINSKY: They blow the house up.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
PINSKY: They shoot everybody. THIS is the final, final expression of profound narcissism where people are just and extension of him, they are
his belongings.
SCHACHER: But, Dr. Drew. I am with Vanessa here where I feel like that we would have seen more red flags.
BARNETT: Exactly.
SCHACHER: There would have been more. People said that he -- then I thought, OK, maybe he was drinking. Maybe there was steroids because he
looks really beat out. There was road rage.
But then a lot of people were like, "No. Like he drank quite often and he was actually a really nice guy." And, I do not understand. Did he just
hide it all this time? How did he just lose it?
PINSKY: Loni?
SCHACHER: And, then I do not think he planned to kill himself. I think he felt so terrible about what happened, that is why he killed himself.
BARNETT: No. He did not feel bad. He felt like he had no other option.
SCHACHER: Well, yes.
COOMBS: And, Dr. Drew, even the neighbor said, "Look, this guy was a good father. He was always outside with his kids playing with them. He posted
pictures on Facebook."
The girlfriend`s family said, "We are shocked by this. We never saw trouble there. He was always very good to the family, to the kids, to us."
So, everyone seems very surprised by the people who knew him, friends and family.
PINSKY: Well, there is another piece to this, I am not going to get into deeply. But, people can have passing impulses about violence. And, if
they have access to a firearm and they get it before that impulse passes, that is how absolute tragedies occur.
Now, next up, I got more on this gruesome shooting. The dad, his family and the daughter who survived, the shooting. And, later, so-called "Sex
Box." A new reality T.V. show getting some attention online and social media. Couples have sex on air in front of an audience on television.
That is right after this. We will get back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN: I have one more niece that is in the hospital and God give us strength that she makes it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Perhaps provide some answers as to why her father would come home early Saturday morning to kill his family. Joseph
Simmons says things seemed tense when he last saw the family at Christmas dinner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH SIMMONS, SHANTAI HALE`S COUSIN: We just noticed that he was acting different. As a family member, I would like to see his dead body, to be
honest with you, just to make sure he is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with our behavior bureau, Leeann, Spirit, Judy. We are talking about a man who police say shot his girlfriend, her mother, his two
daughters. The oldest daughter then survived a gunshot wound to the head.
The bullet apparently came out of her orbit, the eye. Her father then killed himself inside his car, a few miles away. So, Judy, what do you
think this was? Is it like I was saying, just an expression of narssicism or something else going on here?
HO: Well, we know that he was drinking quite heavily the night before. And, I think aside from the fact that there are biological mechanisms that
might allow somebody to be more disinhibited and act out on their aggressions or their anger.
There is also this lack of attention to social norms when we drink. We just do not care about as much about what is appropriate and what is not.
So, I feel like that could be a factor.
PINSKY: It could be. I mean I was sort of tilting towards that in the last block. But, I am going to tell you, it is not that everyone who
drinks heavily becomes violent.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Then I said, if you have access to a firearm, people do crazy stuff when they are intoxicated. That is for sure.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: But, this was sort of systematic. And, it was it gruesome. He was like more -- he was sort of sad. Leeann, in fact, you said he would
rather his daughters be dead than in foster care?
TWEEDEN: Yes, Dr. Drew, for some reason, I do not believe that. To me this seemed like an angry killing. He wanted to kill her, his girlfriend.
He wanted to punish her. And, to me, killing the children first or attempting to kill the children, one of them survived.
With his way of punishing her, I think he wanted to put it in her family -- I do not think he cared if the children went to foster care or if the
grandma took them or not. He just did not want his girlfriend to have them.
That is how much of a coward this guy was. OK? He could kill his entire family yet, thank God he shot himself. That is all I am going to say, Dr.
Drew, because, you know what? When that daughter wakes up from her coma and she will someday, at least she does not have him to deal with.
PINSKY: And, in the control room, put the tweet from what I saw on my Tweeter feed from mom if you would. She is bringing up the issue, Spirit,
of evil and why we always want to -- why we move past and just call -- there it is. "Why do you always try to justify the evil that some people
do?
Why cannot they just be evil and of course I am not justifying evil. But, I am trying to understand it, Spirit. I want to -- you know, if we do not
look at something systematically, how can we ever combat it? How can we ever understand it? How can we ever deal with it?
And, in this particular case, I agree with her, this is evil behavior. This is about as evil as humans get. But, I think we can go further and
understanding it than just saying, evil and then let that be that.
CLANTON: Right. And, you know, perhaps it was the therapist in me, because -- and I am going to try to get through this segment without crime,
because this is -- The whole thing is just heart wrenching to me all the way around, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: And, so, what I see here is, One, I do not think it was a punishment to his common-law wife. And, they are calling her the common-
law wife. I am not going to denigrate their relationship by calling her the live-in girlfriend or some other things that I hear here. But, I think
that if he was really trying to punish her, he would have allowed her to live because she would have to deal with this every day.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: I do not think that, that is what this was.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: I think he thought that she was cheating. They had been together. They built a life together. They built a family. And, this is
someone who was not in control of their emotions.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: And, you know, in practice, this is what we spend our time teaching people, how to deal with and manage emotions.
PINSKY: Right, or regulate.
CLANTON: And, what happened was, he saw his whole family, his whole life potentially crashing down, losing everything --
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: -- and instead, he destroyed it all.
PINSKY: That is right. He cannot regulate.
CLANTON: That is right.
PINSKY: And, Judy, What is your fall in hills on that?
HO: Well, ultimately, it is all about control for this man. So, as he saw everything crumbling down, the fact he was losing control of his family,
his life --
CLANTON: Exactly.
HO: -- everything he had envisioned for himself, he would rather destroy it all and kill himself than actually see them go off and not be in his
presence.
PINSKY: If the pain was too great for him to manage, so he acted out rather than acting in only, which he eventually did act in by killing
himself. And, you , guys, as a behavior bureau, we cannot drop this story without thinking of that daughter who did survive.
I mean think of this history, domestic violence in the past. We are speculating a narcissistic father. She has now had traumatic brain injury,
grief at the loss of a mother, father, and sibling. Spirit, Judy --
TWEEDEN: And, grandmother.
PINSKY: And, grandmother -- I mean this poor daughter. I mean if she comes through meaningfully with a meaningful life, it is going to be -- but
for the grace of god. I mean this is where things like faith have a very powerful influence on people`s recovery.
HO: That is right. And, in some ways she has --
CLANTON: Her life is forever changed.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: I am sorry. Her life is forever changed. And, what I would caution her family and her friends and anyone who will know this child
growing up, I will always caution them to watch out for suicide with this child.
PINSKY: For sure.
CLANTON: Because as she gets older, as she hits these developmental milestones, what she will come to understand and the depth of what she will
understand will only make this worse. This will never go away.
PINSKY: And, Judy, that is presuming the traumatic brain injury is not so severe that, that becomes its own issue.
HO: That is right. And if it does become its own issue, Dr. Drew, everything is going to be impaired, not just her cognitive functioning but
as we talked about before on your show. It might change her personality. She might then possibly become an aggressive person, herself, because of
the traumatic brain injury.
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, she just needs a lot of prayers.
PINSKY: Well, Leeann, I agree. This is, actually, what I do think about this. I think our Twitter followers have showed a good understanding of
this. This was a good discussion about this problem.
I think this daughter does need our prayer and if things -- if she is able to find a meaningful life, it is going to be about for the grace of God
that she does, whatever that is for her. Because those of us, we can give her all the resources possible. But there is a lot here that resides
elsewhere, I think, depending on how this is going to turn out. It is going to be rough. It is going to be rough.
Next, a new show pushes the boundaries of reality television. Couples on television having sex inside a box. Check us out at Instagram on
drdrewhln, and we are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: We have our first couple headed to the stage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): I am so nervous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Are we making the right choice? We are about to go on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: Queue the audience in three, two --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Welcome to "Sex Box."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (3): We will give us the details.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): I am still here. I am not going to run away. I am not shutting you down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): To say yes to sexual acts with your partner is to say yes to love and say yes to commitment.
UNIDENIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Are you having sex with other guys?
UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE SPEAKER (4): Yes, I have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (5): This marriage should not happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (6): Trust can be rebuilt after one breach, but not if it is repeated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was a clip from WE TV`s new series "Sex Box." That is right. And, of course, this is the segment we call "TMI," Too Much Information.
Getting too many details of people`s sex life, particularly on television.
I am back with Sam, Leeann and Spirit. Sam, let me get to this, right straight to this. People having sex in front of a live studio audience.
Is there anything else to be said about this?
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, in the middle of the stage. And, yes, it is TMI. It is WTF. It is leaving me SMH, shaking my head. So -- OK. So, not only do
you have this box in the middle of the stage where the participants can have sex in this box, but it is sound proof. OK? There are no cameras.
But, it begins by this couple that has intimacy issues. They sit down with a panel of relationship experts that the show calls sexperts. They talked
about their intimacy issues and then they are given some advice. So, they can choose to then take that advice.
Go into the box and try it out, have sex and then afterwards -- or at least attempt to have sex and then afterwards they come out and they divulge the
details. And, it is those panel of sexperts that then -- right then there decide whether that couple should stay together.
PINSKY: Spirit, I think I know the answer to this. Suppose you have been working with a couple and they all of a sudden announce to you, "You know,
we are going to go on to this T.V. show. It is called Sex Box."
CLANTON: I would tell them that they are absolutely crazy. And, there is no pressure there for anybody to perform, especially not the guy, right,
Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: No pressure.
(LAUGHING)
CLANTON: I mean, you know, and the thing that is scary about this to me. Seriously, though, this is the part that is scary for me as a therapist,
myself, you know, the American Psychological Association, the number one principal that us as therapist abide by is do no harm.
And, so, if these couples have real issues with intimacy and then we are deciding based upon sex on stage in a matter of 10 minutes whether or not
they should stay together, or whether we are fixing their issues, this is dangerous and this is unethical for clinicians. There has to be something
that I am missing here.
PINSKY: Well, I am hoping --
CLANTON: They have to be working with these couples behind the scenes.
PINSKY: That is what I am hoping. Leeann, I am hoping they are getting whatever treatment that is necessary. Maybe they are getting some sort of
a superficial assessment here and then getting real intensive treatment later.
TWEEDEN: Oh, come on, Dr. Drew.
SCHACHER: Are you kidding me, Dr. Drew?
TWEEDEN: They are trying to find the most outrageous couples that will say the darnest thing on television and they are all being paid to do this on
T.V.
PINSKY: But, you know what?
TWEEDEN: How far is reality T.V. going?
PINSKY: Well, Leeann I know with celebrity rehab and I keep telling VH-1 that they should take a bow for this. They spent on average $300,000 on
treatment after the television show ended. Based on my recommendations, they would do it. Some of the patients refused the treatment, but they
spent hundreds of thousands of dollars getting those patients to my care.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, I mean, all I could think about in my mind is what are they offering in the green room? Certainly not green M&Ms. What are they
offering? Viagra for the guy? Because if they have sexual problems --
SCHACHER: Oh, my God.
PINSKY: That is blue. That is blue.
TWEEDEN: -- Right. It is little blue pills. OK? I mean really if you are serious about getting help, I certainly do not think you are going to a
reality show where you have been put in a box on television, given -- you know, 10 or 20 minutes to perform and then they come out and have people
tell you in 10 minutes that, "Oh, you, guys, should not get married. You should not be together." I mean, seriously, if you take this seriously, it
would not be this way --
CLANTON: I disagree. I disagree.
PINSKY: Samantha.
CLANTON: You would be amazed the lengths that people will go to in order to be able to get help. And, it takes advantage of a certain group of
people who think they cannot afford real therapy, who think they cannot meet with real experts.
The selling tools here and the folks you see on these shows, it is a certain type of person. But, everybody else that is going to be watching,
that is going to take note and that is unfortunately going to learn and base their sex lives and they are getting help on intimacy issues on this
show, that is the dangerous part.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Well, Spirit --
CLANTON: I do not think a half-and-an-hour show is going do it.
PINSKY: No. Listen.
SCHACHER: Well, here is the thing. It is doing way more harm than good.
CLANTON: Yes.
SCHACHER: Because these couples as you just said, Spirit, are placing their relationships in these sexperts` hands, who do not care. They are
not really, Dr. Drew. I am sorry. They are making their decision at a drop of a hat. It needs to be a weighted decision because you are telling
them whether they should stay together or not. This is BS.
PINSKY: But, Spirit, I agree there is a bigger issue here, which is that people think what goes on, on television is some kind of treatment.
CLANTON: Right.
PINSKY: You cannot do treatment on television. You can educate.
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
CLANTON: It is not possible.
PINSKY: You can shape. You can confront. You can do psycho education and stuff, but you cannot do treatment.
PINSKY: Dr. Drew, I do workshops and treatment here in Atlanta all the time. I will tell you that the shortest workshop that I have is 90 minutes
long. And, that is for tips and techniques and tools. It is not to address real intimacy issues because we know often times the issues, they
are so much deeper than just --
PINSKY: And to be fair, Spirit, those are techniques and tools to apply in order to get the ongoing treatment and care.
CLANTON: Exactly.
PINSKY: That is the application where the treatment occurs.
CLANTON: Thank you.
TWEEDEN: Absolutely.
PINSKY: But, we could argue that raising awareness has some benefit. We do not know if these people are not getting real treatment afterwards. My
question, though, is for the viewers, will you watch "Sex Box?" We will have the result from our poll.
CLANTON: Of course, they will.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And, if you want more of HLN, you can take us live with you wherever you go. Get our HLN to go app. It is available for Apple
products, Android devices. Be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFID MALE SPEAKER (1): Cue the audience in three, two --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Welcome to Sex Box.
UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Did you know I was a pastor? OK, so, let the pastor be your mother.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: The box changes lives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): I feel like a brand new man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (3): I do not know if this is kinky or crazy.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (4): Trust can be rebuilt after one breach, but not if it is repeated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): Everybody go out there and have some sex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Leeann and Spirit. Kinky or crazy or both? We are talking about Sex Box, new show on WE T.V., where couples facing intimacy
issues of some type, have sex inside a box while surrounded by a live studio audience in a television studio.
SCHACHER: Oh my gosh.
PINSKY: Sam, what are they saying or social media?
SCHACHER: Who thought of this, Dr. Drew? OK. So, the critics on social media are not only targeting the show but also the couples who
participated. So, for example, Khari writes on her Facebook page, "How does screwing on T.V. in front of a live audience help with intimacy
issues? Intimacy and sex are two different things. That is the problem with a lot of people`s sex lives differentiating the two."
Tommy tweets, "I think we may be pushing things a bit with Sex Box, you think? Could we just be a little less reality and more entertaining."
Exactly. And, then Robin writes, "Lucille Ball was not allowed to use the word pregnant on `I love Lucy.` Flash forward to this."
PINSKY: Yes. She is rolling over in her grave.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: But, Spirit, Khari there had an interesting point, which is that people -- I do not know if this is going to go any further and help people
understand emotional intimacy versus physical intimacy. And, the real issue in our country is the emotional intimacy. We got the physical part
mostly pretty good very often, anyway.
(LAUGHING)
CLANTON: Well, you know, I say there is a huge thing. There is a huge difference between the two. I always say that intimacy is into me see.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: And, there is something that is very different. And, so, if we cannot teach people how to distinguish between the two, we are just going
to be drawn by our lust and loins.
PINSKY: And, which is not always a bad thing. But, Leeann, the intimacy that Spirit is talking about is a quiet, closeness that people nourish one
another with and very quiet, attached way, just like you do with your little son.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: I mean that is intimacy.
TWEEDEN: Yes, intimacy does not mean sex. It can be part of sex, but that does not mean it has to lead to it or that it is part of that. I think,
you know, every time I see this, Dr. Drew, all I can think about is, it is a business. OK?
This television show has sponsors. They are making money. They get people -- And, sure, Spirit is probably right. They are probably preying on the
people that think that maybe this is where they are going to get their therapy.
But, look, we know, they are not getting good therapy here. And, I think the therapy that they need is going to be more than what they can get on a
30-minute show.
PINSKY: But, Leeann -- of course. We know Chris Dunn, who is part of the show. We known him to be a good, ethical guy, too. So, I am guessing that
there is something more to offer these couples. It just has to be. I cannot imagine people that I know would be a part of that without that
piece in place. So, I am going to hope that there is the T.V. part but then these people get the benefit of real treatment afterwards.
CLANTON: They are going to be calling all around the country for after care. I will just wait for my phone to ring.
TWEEDEN: Exactly.
PINSKY: Well, I will submit you for it, Spirit.
CLANTON: I am ready. I am ready.
PINSKY: Now, I want everybody to go to our website hlntv.com or our Facebook page to vote in tonight`s poll. We are asking if you will watch
Sex Box right now? 82 percent of you say, no way. But, Leeaan, when time comes, I am betting that it gets decent ratings if it is done halfway well.
TWEEDEN Yes. But, I bet, Dr. Drew, it will be one of those one and done thing. People will tune in because it is kind of a new thing. And, it is
like, "Oh, people are going to have sex in the box and then they are going to realize it is nothing."
SCHACHER: Are you saying it is a wham bam thank you ma`am?
TWEEDE: Yes, Sam. I love you. I love you.
(LAUGHING)
CLANTON: One night stand.
PINSKY: I got to tell you something, guys, we are joking and stuff.
SCHACHER: I know. It is so --
PINSKY: There is so many other jokes to be had about the box and everything.
SCHACHER: Of course.
PINSKY: But the fact is, television has a very powerful force.
CLANTON: Yes.
PINSKY: And, there is always something good could come out of this. I know it seems extreme now. But, I am going to hope they find a way to
shape it in such a way that the people are not hurt and maybe with our help, and that people can actually learn something.
Let us use television as a force for good. "Sex Box," I must tell you premieres February 27 on WE TV. Please DVR us then you can watch us any
time. And, of course, "Forensic Files" is the show that follows our show. And, look for me and Nancy tomorrow. We debate Cannabis.
END
