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Debate on the Legalization of Marijuana; Previewing "Jack Vale Offline"
Aired January 27, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Nancy Grace and I have been going head-to-head about the legalization of marijuana. We are continuing that debate right
now. But, first let us take a look at how we got here. Watch this.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" SHOW: Pot enthusiast, a.k.a. potheads, stoners, tonight demanding pot must be legal.
PINSKY: People should make the laws they want. If they want it legalized, it should be legalized.
GRACE: Irresponsible child abusers are going to have free access.
PINSKY: Arbitrarily decides some are good and some are bad. Cannabis is bad, alcohol is good.
GRACE: Legalizing recreational marijuana, is not going to work, and I say, no.
PINSKY: But we can even be rational about it. That drives me out of my f- ing mind.
GRACE: World renown rapper, 2 Chainz, also known as Tity Boi. If this is legalized, then everybody is going to have unlimited access to pot.
2 CHAINZ, "TITY BOI", RENOWN RAPPER: Everybody has the ability to get their hands on pot right now whether it is legal or not.
PINSKY: Something equally as crazy as being Drewchainz tonight.
SCHACHER: Oh great! Drewchainz.
PINSKY: This is not a moral argument. We should not make it that. It is a human relationship with a substance.
PINSKY: Welcoming #drewchainz, Nancy Grace, host of "Nancy Grace" on HLN. Of course, Kayleigh McEnany, political commentator. She is going to back
up Nancy, I suspect. Now, Nancy, a lot of people online were very upset when you said this last year. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When I am at work, I do not want my baby sitter high on pot, all right? Does anybody? Do you want your children -- do you want your
parent, your sister, your brother, to be taken care of or driven around by somebody on pot because it is OK in Colorado? You know what? Colorado
gets what they asked for.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: I know people are screaming at the television agreeing with you and vehemently disagreeing with you.
GRACE: Hey, look, the ones that are disagreeing are lethargic sitting on the couch eating chips --
BALDWIN: Oh! That is the worst statement, Nancy Grace.
GRACE: And, getting fat and lazy, there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I only wish I had some chips to join the crowd on the couch. But, Nancy, the hyperbole, now, come on.
GRACE: Is that a question, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Well, it is kind of -- let me ask this, all right?
GRACE: Hyperbole, come on.
PINSKY: Let me ask a really good question.
GRACE: You know what? Let me tell you something, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: I was in the trenches for ten years fighting the war on drugs as best as I could with the little tools that I had and this is what I saw,
and you might smirk at them and look down on them and throw some psycho babble at me, but this is what I saw.
I saw young promising people with a life ahead of them get hooked on marijuana. And, they thought, "Oh, it is just pot. No big deal." Well,
guess what? The next thing, once they are addicted to that, one day that is not enough --
PINSKY: Nancy, two things.
GRACE: -- and then they go on to the next thing and next thing and the next thing.
PINSKY: All right. But, two things.
GRACE: That I what I saw. OK?
PINSKY: Two things. How much effect -- how much utility was there in the legal system when it came to that individual`s addiction? None. We have
lost the drug war. The war on drugs is something that is -- it never should have been waged in the first place.
GRACE: Says you. Says you.
PINSKY: The president of The United States says it. Do you have that tape, control room, of the president --
GRACE: Actually, if you want to argue with the White House, the White House is not --
PINSKY: I understand that, but listen to what he said. Listen to the president told.
GRACE: You want to cherry-pick the facts, fine, go at it.
PINSKY: Hang on, Nancy. He have told the YouTube star the other day about cannabis. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What we have done is, instead of focusing on treatment, the same way we focused, say with tobacco
or drunk driving or other problems where we treated as a public health problem, we treated this exclusively as a criminal problem. I think that
has been counterproductive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Kayleigh, is the president of the United States wrong?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. You know, the president of the United States, if you look, by the way, I think he is referring to
prison, only 0.1 of state inmates are there for marijuana charges. I want to reiterate, I could not agree with Nancy Grace more --
PINSKY: Well, Kayleigh, let me interrupt you. Well, how can that be? If you look at the data in the amount of people that are addicts or have drug-
related offenses that are in jail and if Nancy is right that it all started with cannabis, well then it has to be related to cannabis that all of this
people are in prison.
MCENANY: 0.1 percent are in prison who did not have a prior convictions -- that did not have prior convictions. So, if you had a prior conviction,
you are in for another reason in addition to marijuana possession. So, you know, that is by the way a no point.
And, if we want to address prison populations, we can do that separately. Right now, we are talking about legalization of a dangerous substance and
you can go on whitehouse.gov, President Obama`s whitehouse.gov and find study after study that says this, "Adolescents who use this lose an
equivalent of 8 I.Q. points over their lifetime." This is a dangerous drug, Dr. Drew, and should not be legalized.
PINSKY: But, Nancy, they are not advocating the use for adolescents. In fact, what they hope is that, that money will be used to educate
adolescents and to prevent and to treat, unfortunately what you heard on your show. And, by the way, thank you for joining us in our hissy now.
On your show, the money was not going there. But, what if it could, what if the money from this taxes spent or raised from the sale of this drug,
actually went to the treatment of education, things could end up much better than they are right now.
GRACE: OK. Let me address what you just said. You know what? When you do not know a horse, Drew, look at his track record. For all the years I
prosecuted and now -- and now, I do not know these years I have been on air, never once have the federal government or state government for that
matter said, "You know what? Let us spend all these millions of dollars on pork. Let us try to rehab people. Let us do that. Let us put our money
It is not happening, Drew. As much as you want it to happen -- could you please come to me for a minute and quit showing me a big, fat Dubie? I
want to see Drew. Drew, that is what I have screamed since I got out of law school, friend.
PINSKY: Scream what?
GR ACE: But, I am saying that politicians are not going to give money to rehab because they do not care. So, legalizing pot hoping that the money
is going to go to rehab, it is just like, "Why do not we start a problem, so we can fix it." That is backwards.
PINSKY: Well, listen, why do we -- my biggest problem, Nancy, is that people want to moralize about it.
GRACE: Whoa! OK, now, hold on.
PINSKY: And, that is my biggest problem.
GRACE: We got to narrow this down your biggest problem.
PINSKY: Yes, listen, this is my problem.
GRACE: Your biggest problem is that you have said in the past that it is addictive --
PINSKY: It is addictive. That does not mean it is a good drug or a bad drug.
GRACE: -- But now you would say, "Hey, why do not we legalize it?"
PINSKY: Is alcohol a bad drug because it is addictive? Is OxyContin a bad drug because it is illegal?
GRACE: So, my babysitter can be stoned on pot or my babysitter can be high on reefer or on alcohol? --
PINSKY: Or on OxyContin or alcohol.
GRACE: How about a straight babysitter that is not stoned on anything.
PINSKY: Of course. And, there are bad relationships with substances.
GRACE: Why is that every time I am talking about pot, you start on alcohol?
PINSKY: Well, because the analogy is obvious, that we are busily talking about one drug being good and one drug being bad and that is a bizarre
PINSKY: What about crack? What about crack?
MCENANY: But, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Who do I have on the phone? Kayleigh? Spirit. Spirit is there on the phone.
PINSKY: She is a psychotherapist/ T.V. host. Spirit, go ahead.
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST/T.V. HOST: Yes. You know what? It is interesting, Dr. Drew, because I hear Nancy and I hear her guests making
these outrageous arguments that are extreme when you are talking about millions of Americans.
You are not talking about the individual who is responsibly who is using this drug and you have singled out a single drug. This needs to be
decriminalized. If you are talking about a legalization of a substance and the people have spoken overwhelmingly and said, "We want access to this
GRACE: No, they have not.
CLANTON: We are responsible people.
GRACE: That is a lie, Spirit --
CLANTON: We should not criminalizing individuals.
GRACE: -- Psychotherapist Spirit.
CLANTON: And, thinking that simply because we are keeping this drug illegal, people who should not have access to it do not.
GRACE: That is not true.
CLANTON: All the cases that Nancy has showcased are individuals who have had access to this drugs while it is illegal. These are not the people
that are affected by legalization of marijuana.
PINSKY: Let me interrupt both of you and say the governor of Colorado was very much against this law when that came to be in his state. He spoke to
"60 Minutes" about his thoughts on the legalization. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL WHITAKER, "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: In the beginning, you did not think it was a good idea.
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, (D) COLORADO GOVERNOR: No. I posted it. I posted, I think even after the election, if I had a magic wand and I could wave the
wand, I probably would have reversed it and had the initiative fail. But, now I looked at it and I am not so sure I would do that even if I had such
a wand. I mean I think we have made a lot of progress and, you know, still a lot of work to be done. But, I think we might actually create a system
that can work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Nancy, even the governor of Colorado, who was adamantly opposed to this law, thinks now perhaps this is something that worked.
Hold that thought.
PINSKY: We will be right back. Well, hold that thought.
GRACE: Really? Because the governor of Wyoming is angry in Colorado. So the potheads are pouring into Wyoming.
PINSKY: We will be right back.
GRACE: What about that, Drew?
PINSKY: After this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: People should make the laws they want. If they want it legalized, it should be legalized.
GRACE: Should we legalize cocaine? Because some of the people want that.
PINSKY: Nancy`s arguments are about bizarre as they got. That is bizarre as they can possibly get.
GRACE: Why do not we just go ahead and legalize breaking and entering and carjacking?
PINSKY: I am sick and tired of people moralizing around pot. And, I am sick and tired of people attacking me for just discussing the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back talking about the legalization of recreational marijuana. Nancy Grace and I have been debating this issue. It is our most tweeted
story of the night. Joining the debate, Kayleigh McEnany and Spirit. Spirit is on the phone. Nancy, you understand my position that I believe
the decision should be left up to the people.
GRACE: No, because you flip-flop.
PINSKY: But, should it not be left up to the people?
GRACE: You flip-flop all the time.
PINSKY: Wait, Nancy --
GRACE: Actually, the people have spoken and everyone -- like who is Spirit? Psychotherapist Spirit, who is that exactly? Because to say that
the people want -- well, the people have spoken --
PINSKY: In some state.
GRACE: Only four states allow the legalization of marijuana. And, I am not talking about medical marijuana. I am pro-use of marijuana to ease
pain and suffering and for any medicinal effect to those that are ill and need it.
You are talking about recreational marijuana. I have been there. I have seen it and I have seen what it leads to. And, I am opposing when you keep
saying, the people, what people other than you and Spirit?
PINSKY: Let Spirit defend herself in just a second. But, let me tell you in California, we have had medical marijuana for quite some time and it has
been some of the worst practice of medicine I have ever seen.
GRACE: There you go.
PINSKY: As a matter of fact, all of the addicts who want medical marijuana get it. So, this system is not working. It might as well be recreational
so people who are responsible can have access to it without clogging up our legal system.
GRACE: Well, that is a whole another animal right there in medical marijuana.
PINSKY: But, Spirit. Hang on, Nancy. Spirit, who is Spirit?
CLANTON: Thank you. And, you know, I am a licensed psychotherapist and nationally certified counselor and when I hear Nancy say, who is Spirit?
Well, I ask is, who is Nancy? Not who is Nancy Grace but who is Nancy to make the moral argument for all of America?
Because she believes a certain something, she believes I am OK with marijuana for medicinal use. However, I am not OK with it for recreational
use. Who is Nancy to be able to make the medical argument?
PINSKY: As a matter of fact, the medical use is -- we cannot get the research done because of all the moral energy around this drug.
PINSKY: CBG could be very useful. They are useful in Europe. We are trying to get it pass this country, but there is such -- Kayleigh, why the
morality around this drug? Let me throw a little bomb into this. Maybe, maybe there is a racial component of this. People have, let us say, whip
of racism underlying this thing. This drug was legal until 1937 when bad people were decided they did this drug, Kayleigh.
PINSKY: Only bad people did marijuana.
MCENANY: I do not think is a racial issue, and do not think this is a moral issue. This is a public health issue, Dr. Drew. And, I am troubled
when I hear this panel consistently say that this is what the people want. This should not be about what the people want.
We have an FDA. We have the Food And Drug Administration, marijuana is a drug that has to go through the thorough proper scientific vetting of the
FDA, the same way opium did.
PINSKY: I absolutely agree for the clinical use. For the clinical use.
MCENANY: Opium, the main component of Morphine, it went through the FDA.
PINSKY: But for the recreational use --
MCENANY: And for recreational use.
PINSKY: Why is it different than alcohol?
MCENANY: Dr. Drew, why do not we vote on Vicodin, then? What is wrong with voting on Vicodin? If we are going to vote on marijuana, let us vote
on that. Let us vote on every other drug. We have a process that has to be followed.
PINSKY: Nancy will find it very interesting to my position, which is I am willing to entertain the possibility of legalization of all substances. I
would entertain that. I do not think it is a good idea, but I do not think it has that much of an impact on the relationship humans have with
substances. It is a separate issue. It is not a moral issue and that is what troubles me.
GRACE: OK. I do not know what that was. I think it was kind of a little sermonette, but I am going to treat it like it was a question. OK. You
guys, you, Dr. Drew, and Spirit, psychotherapist, keep saying what the people want. Well, you know what? The people, which is 46 states out of
our union do not have marijuana legalized. Why? Because they have the common sense to know that it is addictive, as you have appointed out
yourself, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: It is addictive.
GRACE: That it is a gateway drug to other drugs and they do not want that.
PINSKY: Well, nicotine is the gateway drug. I mean let us be very clear.
GRACE: There you go.
PINSKY: And, once again, in terms of ill effects on society, on socioeconomic functioning in our health, nothing worse than alcohol. And,
so I guess we should go illegalize alcohol too. I do not have such a problem with that.
GRACE: That is your fallback argument every time --
PINSKY: I am just saying. Because people behaved immorally --
GRACE: There is alcohol and now you brought in cigarettes.
PINSKY: Hang on, Nancy. Because we behave immorally on a substance, it does not make the substance immoral.
GRACE: This is not about morality.
PINSKY: How about morality. Let us teach that to our kids.
GRACE: I do not think it is just a moral issue.
PINSKY: Let us help -- I do not want them to use substances --
GRACE: -- you know I do not care what people do in their private lives, but when children are rushed to the hospital with pot cookies, when people
shoot their wives because they are high on pot, that is when it becomes a crime and that is when I say it is wrong.
PINSKY: Listen, the 17-year-old teen mom -- let us talk about the way you approach these problems. Teen mom gives her baby Vodka. The baby ends up
getting alcohol poisoning.
Is that about the alcohol or is that about the bad parenting is what I ask? The parenting is the issue. The relationship with the substance is the
issue. It is not the substance, itself. Kayleigh, why is it not OK for someone to do this in the privacy of their own home? Why not?
MCENANY: Why make the substance available? Dr. Drew, they tried this in the Netherlands where marijuana, you can go to coffee shops and get
marijuana. You know what they found? Violence has increased all around the coffee shops.
Out in California where you have cannabis clubs, where you go to get medical marijuana. Aggravated assaults have gone up 57 percent. Nancy is
correct that there is a link between violent behavior and marijuana. We need to vet this drug. It needs to go --
PINSKY: Kayleigh, I do not know about you, but I would rather have run into somebody in a dark alley completely stoned than somebody, you know,
drunk on alcohol. But, Nancy, we look through some of the comments you were getting --
GRACE: I would rather --
PINSKY: -- on Twitter during the 2 Chainz debate and let me show you some of the comments. Most of them disagreed. So, in terms of the people
speaking, here is @sweet_tifferperez: "I see more alcoholics abuse their kids. I have seen it ruin more lives than marijuana." Rhonda_Lstash_2011:
"Nancy needs to smoke some weed and chill." Nancy, have you ever smoked weed?
GRACE: No, never.
PINSKY: I am not a fan either. @Americasmezz: I do not want my children smoking pot. Would you think it is OK to go to school high?" Of course
not. No one wants that.
And, let us be clear, cannabis is very problematic for developing brains. It has been shown that if you start smoking pot even modestly under the age
of 14, the brain changes and they are profound are permanent.
While in adults, they get the same brain change. The fact is those changes reverse when people stop smoking pots. So, the issue for adolescence
remains profoundly vital that they do not smoke pot. They do not get expose to it. But, we are losing the battle there too, because kids do not
perceive the harm associated with it.
We need to have education programs and we need money to do that. My hope is that the tax raised from that drug will do so. Nancy says no. Nancy, I
have a question for you. If they made marijuana legal in Georgia, would you stay in your state?
GRACE: Well, yes, I would not leave because I do not like a law that was enacted. I would probably fight and struggle to have it reversed. I
absolutely would, but I am telling you, Drew -- you know, what you are saying, people listen to you. It matters what you say.
I have seen what happens to people that are addicted to pot, that are addicted -- I do not mean rich, Hollywood stars that scoff at my position.
I mean every day regular people that get addicted to pot. They lose their jobs. They go on to another drug, you know? Everything bad, and I do not
want that. And, I know you do not want that either.
GRACE: This is wrong, what you are advocating.
PINSKY: Well, Nancy, first of all, thank you for joining me. Thank you for welcoming me on your show and for joining us here on ours, but here is
what I think. I agree. I do not want people harmed by this drug.
Colorado here is data. It is not looking good right now. They are losing ground in terms of what is happening with young people, what is happening
with the black market, the medical consequences but they are having a real conversation about it.
Now, that they have legalized it and gotten through the frankly insanity of our laws around substances and the moralizing that goes on about
substances, which are anathema, bizarre. Alcohol, good? Bad? Oxycontin, good? Bad? No. It is about the relationship that humans have with
substances and the medical consequences they have.
And, if something needs to be legal or illegal, that is up to the people, as far as I am concerned, but it is certainly not a moral issue. Though
people on substances behave badly and it may look like a moral issue, it is not. It is up to the voters. It is up to the people to decide and those
of us in the medical system will deal with the consequences.
My hope is that as things go better in Colorado. It is not looking great from a health standpoint but at least they are having conversation and I
believe, and if Governor Hicklooper is any indication, they are going to work this through and things are going to work out for the best. Back
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Do you have any evidence that this man that just guns down his wife in front of his children was having withdrawal from some other drug?
PINSKY: In the police report that you say is the factual matter that you have taken off the internet, there were empty pill bottles found in his
PINSKY: And the fact is he may have -- there is a common thing right now, is that people are being dismissed from their medical care because they get
carried away with the opioids and benzodiazepines. They go into withdrawal and in fact they use pot to try to deal with the withdrawal from the
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back. We are continuing the marijuana debate. Should it be legal for recreational use? It is of course out most tweeted story of
the day and may be of the month.
Joining us Samantha Schacher from Poptrigger.com, Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney and our own Nancy Grace, tonight. And, Spirit, licensed
psychotherapist and talk show host.
Spirit, the story I was talking about with Nancy, the man who ate this browne or cookie and then he shot his wife. Apparently, his wife called
and said, "He is on opioids. He is not in his right mind. He was taking pain killers.
They found empty bottles at his side and then he goes and becomes agitated and kills somebody. Can you buy -- Do you adhere with the theory I was
advocating that he was probably in withdrawal and may have been using pot to try to deal with the withdrawal?
PINSKY: It was not a psychotic episode from the pot. They did not say there were toxic levels of cannabis in his system.
CLANTON: That is right. But, see, Dr. Drew, you cannot have that discussion with Nancy because she is not a clinician. She is an attorney.
She is a debater. And, what Nancy does -- and God bless her, I mean I love her, but what she does is she goes and finds these extreme singular cases
and then she acts asks like that is the gospel for all of America.
CLANTON: SHE did not talk about the case last night where the gentleman had alcohol in his system and killed his entire family plus his mother-in-
CLANTON: She did not talk about that.
PINSKY: And, so, an anecdote should set the standard for the rest of us --
PINSKY: It is a terrible way to approach much of anything. A new report predicts -- Anahita, hold on. I am going to go to you here.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK.
PINSKY: I am going to tell you this new report that predicts that by 2020, 18 states will have legalized recreational marijuana. Here is a map that
shows which states are heading in that direction. So, now, Anahita, good or bad?
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. Well -- No. Bad, actually.
PINSKY: Bad. OK. Why?
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me just start off -- let me just give a disclaimer, Dr. Drew. I am OK with medicinal marijuana. I definitely think doctors should
be able to prescribe marijuana to their patient --
PINSKY: Let me stop you, Anahita. Let me just stop you with that, because Nancy made the same point.
PINSKY: But, for God sake, we cannot even do research on it, because there is such energy around this. It is impossible to get research done because
it is a bad drug from a moral perspective. Why do people who moralize have a real problem with this drug? And, how about, Anahita? Go ahead, finish.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not like the arguments you were making, you and others in that debate with Nancy Grace, Dr. Drew, because I am so sick and tired
of hearing people that are proponents for recreational marijuana to be legalizing things like, "Well, cigarettes are legal and tobacco is
Alcohol is a dangerous drug and that is legal." And, I think you even mentioned some prescription drugs that are dangerous and legal. That is
not a compelling argument, Dr. Drew. Just because --
CLANTON: Then, you know what, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Excuse me, let me finish first.
PINSKY: Hold on. One at a time. One at a time. One at a time. Sam, I will give you a chance --
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me finish my point.
PINSKY: Finish your point then Sam. Go ahead, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. The reason why I think that is not compelling and I do not like when you make that argument --
PINSKY: Tell me why.
SEDAGHATFAR: Is because -- just because certain other bad drugs are legal, does not mean we add another bad drug to the list, Dr. Drew.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER": OK.
PINSKY: You are right.
SEDAGHATFAR: We know of the terrible --
PINSKY: You are right. You are absolutely right that it does -- It is not a justification to add something to the list, but it does call attention to
the bizarre, irrational, illogical quality --
SEDAGHATFAR: That is not illogical.
PINSKY: -- to which our drug laws are applied.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is not illogical, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Listen, they are moral. These people -- there is a moral law that applies to these things and that is insane.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is another point of disagreement I have with you, Dr. Drew. There is no reason why we should take morality away from the laws
that we want to enact.
PINSKY: I am not saying that. I am not saying that there is not a moral component in the legal system. What I am saying is that the relationship
that humans have with chemicals is a matter of biology and clinical observation and science, not an issue of people behave immorally on
substances, but it does not make the substance immoral. Sam?
SCHACHER: OK. I will put a disclaimer too just like Anahita. Mine will say, I am pro-pot and guess what? I do not even smoke marijuana, Dr. Drew,
but I see it as something that is very pragmatic. Listen, Anahita, the people that want to smoke pot, they are going to smoke pot whether it is
illegal or not.
Why not have the states regulate it? Why not allow the states to benefit from the taxes? Why not decriminalize it, so, we, the taxpayers, that can
be directed elsewhere? Why not help all of the families that are broken because of all of these nonviolent offenders that are being --
PINSKY: And, Sam, and why not eliminate --
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I will tell you why not.
PINSKY: Hold on, Anahita. And, why not eliminate the disproportionate application of this laws to people of certain colors of the country.
SCHACHER: Yes. Amen.
PINSKY: And, why not stop thinking about people who do this substance of being bad, which was the original source of this law in 1937.
PINSKY: Bad people did this drug.
CLANTON: I will tell you why. Because Anahita -- and , Anahitam you know I love you, but you and Nancy are both attorneys and this keeps you working
as well because let us talk about how people of color are disproportionately affected by the laws that come with enforcement of
marijuana in our system. Nobody is talking about that. Nobody is talks about that aspect of this debate.
PINSKY: Hang on. Ladies, one second. Anahita, finish quickly in 30 seconds. We will keep it going. Tell me.
SEDAGHATFAR: I agree that we should probably not spend our resources and money trying to prosecute pot crimes, Dr. Drew, but I absolutely disagree
with everything else. You can make that argument to raise argument with arguably any law that we have.
SEDAGHATFAR: The issue is that there are too many sad side effects related to pot.
PINSKY: All right. More to come, more pot, more about children, more about experts. I have got a surprise guest and you will be surprised to
see how much he and I are in alignment on this one. And, later I will check in with Jack Vail in his world of pranks. We are back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I completely understand that our laws as to pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. People should make the laws they want. If they
want it legalized, it should be legalized.
GRACE: Should we legalize cocaine, because some of the people want that.
PINSKY: Maybe all substance should be legal. That is up to the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Spirit, and on the phone, my special guest, comedian Doug Stanhope. And, people would imagine that Doug and I
would be on the opposite sides of the spectrum but lo and behold, Doug and I agree on more than people might imagine. Doug, what is your opinion? I
hope you had the chance to watch the debate, but thanks for joining us, by the way.
DOUG STANHOPE, COMEDIAN: I have been screaming at my T.V. since Nancy Grace preceded you, and it is fantastic that we are on the same side --
Almost. I will tell you almost.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
STANHOPE: But the fact that you are even entertaining Nancy Grace, you should be on like vice.com rather than this. It is almost -- When you
debate Nancy Grace, it is like you are debating Jersey Shore or the Kardashians. Get to a place of respectability and not "headline news."
PINSKY: All right. Well, here we are. Now, you set it straight. What is your opinion about legalization?
STANHOPE: I come from an overwhelming arc of every drug should be legal in that you own your own body. You should be able to do whatever you want to
yourself. You know, I think we talked about this on your podcast.
PINSKY: Yes, we did.
STANHOPE: You are an x-game guy. An NFL player, an NFL lineman has an average age of mid-50s. Are you going to make football illegal? That is
your choice. You do what you want with your life.
PINSKY: I fear that football is going to become the next tobacco. I got to tell you. They are starting to build a case against it, but you are
right. So, Anahita, let me go to you and ask the question. I mean are not we in a country of freedom? Are not we allowed to be in charge of our own
I know we cannot commit suicide, their limitations. But, the laws are constructive in such a way that we can use drugs until we die. That is the
way the laws work, even if we are using illicit drugs. What about being able to use drugs legally that are reasonably safe?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, the people have not voted for this, Dr. Drew. I believe only four states have legalized recreational use of marijuana.
STANHOPE: Well, they have not had the chance to vote.
STANHOPE: And, if you want to do that, you can go back to segregation. Only four states allow black people -- shut your mouth. Who is this on the
PINSKY: No. She is a guest of mine, Doug.
SEDAGHATFAR: Excuse me.
PINSKY: She is a defense attorney. But, go ahead, Doug. You finish. She is a lovely --
STANHOPE: Sorry. I am on the phone. I do not get the split screen. I am just sitting on my couch.
SEDAGHATFAR: When you go home, hopefully you will watch and read my credentials. I think I am pretty qualified to talk about this.
PINSKY: Anahita, you are, but go ahead Doug finish your point.
SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you.
STANHOPE: I apologize for my outburst. I was hoping not to talk over other people like everyone does on this show. The question again?
PINSKY: You were going to make the point -- Anahita was saying only four states have voted on this. I am saying by 2020, another 15 might follow
STANHOPE: How many have had a chance to vote on it? When does it come to a referendum in all of those states? The point is if it is wrong, it is
wrong. If some state is telling you, you have no right to do with your own body what you choose to do, be it testing drugs, if you have some kind of
debilitating disease and you want to try a drug that is not approved by the FDA, do you have the right to?
Well, it might save your life. But the government tells you, "Oh, no, no, not until we say you can." Let me back up to Nancy Grace`s argument about
the 2-year-old smoking pot on YouTube. Just this week in Australia, a guy whose kid was dying of cancer gave him cannabis oil without all of the fun
effects. No smile on the face, but it had miraculous repercussions and he went to prison for giving his kid a drug that works.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Doug, there are examples of that in this country and it breaks my heart. It is insanity. If something is a substance, does not
make a substance is good or bad, but if a substance can help save human misery, save a child misery, save a parent misery, save somebody in pain
misery, why should not at least physicians be able to use that?
I mean, there is so much morality around substances that we cannot. And, in this case, we are making a differentiation between the medical use and
the recreational use, no doubt. But, the fact the laws themselves are very bizarre and very illogical. Doug, last word and then we got to say
STANHOPE: Let me stop you right there and say, you know what? Recreational is no different than medicinal because a lot of people have
sedentary quotidian lives where they just pump your gas. Their life stinks and recreational is as important as medicinal.
If it makes you smile at the end of the day, what is wrong with that? And if you commit a crime in the commission of that, then you get accused and
convicted of the crime.
PINSKY: Right. Not --
STANHOPE: The crime is still a crime.
PINSKY: Not the drug committed the crime.
STANHOPE: Exactly. Doug, thank you very much for joining us. Panelists, stay with me. I would remind people that 1 in every 2,000 tweets is about
cannabis. Are they for or against legalization? We will look into the social media after this. Panel, stays with me.
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita and Spirit. We are continuing this debate about Cannabis. The most tweeted story of the night or maybe of the
decade. Sam, weed in Twitter, what do they have in common?
SCHACHER: OK. So Drewchainz, while the school of Washington University School of Medicine, they conducted a study, and what they found was that
Twitter users are pro pot. So, for example, 1 out of 2,000 tweets, so 1 out of every 2000 tweets is about marijuana.
Pro pot tweets were 15 times more common than anti-pot tweets. 7.7 million weed-related tweets per month. Most of those sending and receiving pot
tweets were under the age of 25. So, the researchers used keywords like weed and blunt. So, weed was used well over 3 million times. Blunt over a
million and marijuana just under a million.
PINSKY: And, let us look at our poll results. And, Anahita, I will toss this one out to you, because we kept on debating about whether the people
want this. A new report predicts recreational marijuana will be legal in 18 states by 2020. Does this surprise you was our poll. 8 percent
surprised. 92 percent, not surprised. Actually, I think we have gone beyond even this particular screen to 7 percent and 93 percent. So
Anahita, at least the Twitter verse seems to be in favor of this, no?
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Well, apparently, the Twitter versus the 25 and under, that was the majority of the people that were tweeting these things,
which goes to another point that I was unable to make in the last segment, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And, Anahita, let me apologize for my rude friend. I am sorry.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. Right.
PINSKY: I hope I stood up for you adequately.
SEDAGHATFAR: I was trying to figure out who he was, but I guess when you do not have a compelling argument, you resort to ad hominem attacks, so he
can look that up. But, anyway, Dr. Drew, another thing that we are leaving out of this equation is what kind of message are we teaching our children
here if we legalize pot? The fact is we are downplaying the bad effects of pot. You, yourself, have repeatedly said, pot can be profoundly addictive.
You, yourself, have said pot use --
PINSKY: And, Anahita, listen --
PINSKY: All through this hour, I have said there are problems. There are problems in Colorado and we need to be rational about it.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. So --
SCHACHER: Anahita, that is so hypocritical -- Anahita that is so hypocritical of you, though. How many people out there who are saying that
they are anti-pot go out there and have a cocktail. You go out and you have cocktails here and there.
SEDAGHATFAR: We discussed that. But we discussed that. Just because one drug that is bad for you is legal does not mean --
SCHACHER: But it is hypocritical for people to go out there who have a drink here and there then go on and say that pot should not be legalized.
SEDAGHATFAR: May I finish?
PINSKY: Hang on, Sam. I am going to let Spirit talk. But, let us just summarize what Anahita is saying. We have one problem, we do not want
another one. That is a legitimate thing. If we have alcohol that is legal, we do not want another one. OK, I get it.
SEDAGHATFAR: And what about our children, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Listen, I get it. And, by the way, many more kids are being exposed to alcohol than cannabis, but be that is a question that the people
should answer, not you or me.
PINSKY: But, go ahead, Spirit.
CLANTON: Thank you. Thank you. And, that is exactly the case. So, if you are saying do we want another problem and if the answer is no, then
take one out. But the thing is, we live in this great country called America where we are supposed to have personal choice about our own
liberties, our own bodies.
And, by the way, Dr. Drew, there are some states in the United States where you can commit suicide, should you decide to end your own life? So, we are
understanding and it does not surprise me that it is the millennials that are leading this charge because with every generation, we become more
Because why? We realize these archaic, old, outdated laws do not work and the people want more freedom. They want the right to choose. I am not a
marijuana smoker, but I support those who want to make the choice for themselves because it should be up to them. My vote should not be any more
influential than the next man`s vote.
CLANTON: Let the people change what they want.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, why have any laws, Dr. Drew? Why have any laws, Dr. Drew. Again, these are not compelling arguments. If people want to vote
heroin to be legal, to be used in schools -
SEDAGHATFAR: Is the will of the people? I mean, these are not starter arguments.
PINSKY: No. No. Listen. Anahita, listen -- let me paraphrase it.
SEDAGHATFAR: But that is where your argument is leading.
PINSKY: You are saying something legitimate, which is, there is certain things that the majority cannot decide. They cannot take the rights of a
minority away. Yes, there is certain things the majority cannot decide, but I do not think this meets the criteria of one of those things because
it is something that is about personal liberties, about our own bodies.
Listen, as you know, I deal with the consequences of these substances all the time and I do not think the laws are helping right now. And, I
certainly do not think the message is getting to young people. I think the opposite is getting to them. So, everybody, think about this.
I have got to switch gears. Thank you, panel. I met up with Jack Vale, star of HLN`s new series "JACK VALE: OFFLINE." Good at pranks, that guy
and he pull a really, really great one on me. You will see it after this.
PINSKY: Allow me to introduce you to Jack Vale and his family. He has made a name for himself online. And, now he has found a home here at HLN
with his new program, "JACK VALE: OFFLINE." It airs every Tuesday night at 10:00, immediately following our show. I caught up with Jack and his
family a few days ago. Have a look at this.
PINSKY (voice-over): What started out as a few gags as become an online industry.
JACK VALE, PRANKER: Cherry and I did a prank a while back where she pretended to be pregnant and we were lifting up a carpet and we asked
people for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: You are supposed to be helping, not her.
VALE: It was a funny video but I felt like we missed an opportunity to engage a little bit more with people.
CHERRY: What if we go like in front of home depot or Lowe`s?
VALE: And I will make you like lift the bricks and it is something else just really big and awkward.
CHERRY: Where are we going to get a belly?
VALE: I can take care of this.
PINSKY (voice-over): Jack Vale`s public pranks have 230 million views. His YouTube channel has 1.2 million subscribers, more than 3,000 people
have fallen victim to his unique brand of humor.
VALE: When you can make somebody laugh out in public, it brightens their day.
PINSKY: Jack`s wife, Cherry, and their six kids are all in on the jokes, designed for maximum exposure on social media.
VALE: It is sort of organically kind of happened. I think because there is a lot of laughter in our house and we are making jokes and playing games
and spending a lot of time together, so it was a natural thing to gravitate toward that.
PINSKY (voice-over): Jake, Ashley, Chris, and even little Jasmine and Jackson will do anything to get a laugh, including taking cough medicine.
PINSKY: There is a DM that speeds it up.
VALE: There is what?
PINSKY: There is something in that that speeds it up.
CHERY: Yes, but --
VALE: We try to give an overabundance, so that they hopefully -- the goal is to get them to take naps.
CHERRY: Give her some more.
PINSKY: Honestly, I am not comfortable with that. If you take too much Benadryl, it makes you agitated. It is dangerous.
VALE: Well, they are not sick or anything like that.
PINSKY: That is what I am telling you as a physician do not do that. Do not do that.
VALE: It is just Benadryl.
PINSKY: Do not do that. Do not do that. I cannot ethically allow you to do that in my presence.
VALE: The first thing we did was talk to some of the producers of the show and figure out a way, a good plan of action to prank you. And, we thought
That was so uncomfortable doing this. I was excited but also very uncomfortable because it is not who we are. And, I am like, "I hope I do a
PINSKY: You did. You did a good job. So, I feel thoroughly -- I am like -- good. Well done.
VALE: It is hard to keep a straight face there.
PINSKY (voice-over): The vales are laughing all the way to the bank and their attitude about family and fun has made their bond even stronger.
VALE: There has been no trouble. No evidence of trouble. Are you mad at me? Do we have any deep-rooted problems?
VALE: If you dig a little deeper. No. It is -- you know, we have so much fun together. It is really, really fun.
CHERRY: Yes. He is my best friend.
VALE: Yes, we are best friends. It is true.
PINSKY: There is components of that punk they did, that prank they did on me that you did not see where he was looking behind him going, what you
kids have been drinking? And, they did that like about three times and I said, "Look, I do not get between adolescence and their parents here but if
you want some help, I am here."
And, then they did a Benadryl thing and I was all the way in at that point. They were great, had a lot of fun with them. They have a lot of fun
together, clearly. And, you can of course see for yourself. It is right now. It follows our show.
It is quite something to be the object -- they were very skillful in how they rolled it out and sucked me in. You should have seen my body
language. I was mortified. Here now, Jack Vale: Offline, starts immediately.