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Is Jordan Swap A "Deal With the Devil"?; Israel and Hezbollah; Convictions Overturned; Hernandez Murder Trial

Aired January 28, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar.

And right now we're waiting word of a deal that could happen any minute. It could change the U.S.-led war on ISIS. Some are calling this a deal with the devil, a potential hostage negotiation with the most brutal terrorists in the world. This is the woman at the center of all of this, Sajida al-Rishawi, seen here with a bomb strapped to her chest. That is a bomb that failed to go off during a deadly terror attack in Jordan in 2005. She's now on death row in a Jordanian prison and now it appears ISIS wants her and Jordan may be willing to swap her for this man. He is a Jordanian pilot who was captured by ISIS a few weeks ago after his jet crashed in Syria.

So why is ISIS so hell bent on getting this woman? Who is she? We'll be taking a look at this. We traced her back to the head of ISIS. Her brother was a comrade of thee leader of al Qaeda in Iraq. That leader, al-Zarqawi. A man that you have very likely heard of. And al-Zarqawi was a mentor to the man who now runs ISIS, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi.

Joining me now, we have CNN's Jomana Karadsheh in Amman Jordan, we have Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, our CNN global affairs analyst, and we also have - and he's, as well, a retired U.S. Delta Force commander.

So, Jomana, to you first. This all started with a Japanese hostage. So, how did we get here where the Jordanians appear to be bargaining for this Jordanian pilot?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, this really began a week ago with ISIS demanding $200 million ransom for two Japanese hostages. That is when we saw the Japanese government sending a delegation, setting up a crisis center at their embassy here in Amman. Jordan is a strategically position country that would allow them to facilitate whatever negotiations they needed to do. They could also be taking advantage of and utilizing whatever channels the Jordanians had open with their own hostage situation to try and get their hostages released. Now, sense then, obviously this story and the situation has really developed really fast and has been fast moving with ISIS changing the demands, killing a Japanese hostage and, as you mentioned, demanding the release of Sajida al-Rishawi.

The issue here, Brianna, is the Jordanians are making an offer, saying they are ready to release Sajida al-Rishawi in exchange for their pilot. They are not talking about the Japanese hostage at this point. The problem is, Jordanians are not in that position to be making an often. ISIS, at this point, does have the upper hand. They were the ones who made the demand and they made clear that their demand is a direct swap. The Iraqi prisoner, Sajida al-Rishawi, for Kenji Goto. And they said that they would kill both the Jordanian pilot and Kenji Goto if this did not happen.

A very tense situation here. Many believe this is really trying to embarrass the Jordanian government, a key U.S. ally, in making them look like they are conceding to a terrorist organizations demand. Also, Brianna, a lot of pressure on the Jordanian government domestically here. The pilot comes from a very powerful, influential tribe in this country and they are calling for the government to do whatever it can to secure his release if the Jordanian pilot is executed. There's a lot of concern about a backlash here and repercussions with -- from the tribes in Jordan.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. And we're hearing that from the family of this pilot appealing really to Jordanians and saying his blood signifies the blood of all Jordanians, really trying to I guess sort of inspire the backing of so many Jordanians.

Colonel Reese, I want to ask you about the logistics of this, because how this would happen is sort of - is hard to imagine. But first I want to talk about the woman here, Sajida al-Rishawi. What is at stake giving her back to ISIS? You would assume this is definitely - this would be a huge propaganda coup for them. What else are we looking at?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Brianna, you know, she's been in prison for 10 years. She's been sitting on death row. And, again, I think the biggest thing is the propaganda. But like you said earlier in the show, this has - this shows the lineage of Baghdadi to Zarqawi and Zarqawi was Jordanian. He's from Zarka (ph), Jordan. So it shows the lineage of where ISIS really grew out of. You know, Zarqawi, when he had al Qaeda in Iraq and that changed over to ISIS. So it shows the lineage. It's great for propaganda. And they'll use this because they're already talking - or calling her their sister and they will use this to their advantage.

KEILAR: Sure. And certainly to recruit women, I would image as well, that she would be an inspiration, is they're already making headway recruiting women. I wonder what this would look like logically to do an exchange. We look back. Of course, the only example -- recent sort of example that I can think of might be the Bowe Bergdahl exchange with the Taliban. We saw that all go down on video. But this is ISIS and this may be different. What would this even look like or do you think it's even real?

REESE: Well, I do think it's real. I think the Jordanians and both sides are doing what most people will do. There's a negotiation going on. And like you said, ISIS does have the upper hand, but I think Jordan has handled this correctly. And I think this might come to fruition here. You're right, it could look like the Bergdahl trade off. You know, Raqqa, at their headquarters, and Jordan are only a couple

hundred miles apart. It could be driving out to the desert where there's an exchange of prisoners. There's several ways to do this. The Jordanians definitely have the assets to fly her in on a helicopter, like we did with Bergdahl. But, again, I think ISIS will set the stage and they will use this as a propaganda piece. So they'll stage it the way they want to do it.

KEILAR: Yes, and they do have the upper hand here, as Jomana said. Jomana, thank you so much. Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, thank you to you as well.

REESE: Thank you.

KEILAR: Israel's leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, is warning Hezbollah and Iran will, quote, "pay the price" for today's deadly attack on an Israeli military convoy. Two Israeli soldiers, as well as a U.N. peacekeeper from Spain, were killed in this missile attack. Violent clashes between the militant group Hezbollah and Israel are raising serious concerns that violence could soon spiral out of control. Today's attack, this happened near an intersection of the Lebanon- Syria boarder and the Golan Heights. And I want to bring in my colleague, Wolf Blitzer. He is the lead political anchor, as well as the host of "The Situation Room."

Wolf, when you look at this, this really seems to be teetering on the brink here. When you look at this, how concerned are you that this could explode into another war?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN LEAD POLITICAL ANCHOR: Well, there could be a miscalculation on Hezbollah side or the Israeli side. And this could easily escalate into another war. There was a war along the Israeli- Lebanese border between Israel and Hezbollah back in 2006. That was very painful to both sides. I remember covering that war. I suspect neither the Israelis nor Hezbollah wants this to escalate right now. There's been these limited operations, if you will.

But this could get out of control. This could get -- they could get carried away. Just as was the case last summer when Israel and Hamas effectively went to war in Gaza. So you never know in that part of the world what could happen.

The Israelis, they insist -- and I spoke just a few moments ago with the spokesman for the Israeli military, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, says they don't want this to escalate. The Israelis paid a significant price back in 2006 when Hamas - excuse me, Hezbollah rockets and missiles were coming in from Lebanon into northern Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis basically had to evacuate that area. A major city like Haifa, I remember walking around it. It was basically empty at the time. No ships were in the major port of Haifa. The Israelis wound up losing billions of dollars in revenue as a result of that.

Now, Hezbollah paid an enormous price as well. The Israelis pounded and pounded and pounded and a lot of people were killed in the process. I hope it doesn't escalate into anything along those lines right now. and the fear is, though, there could be a miss calculation. Let's hope that doesn't happen. That it's contained. The situation in that region, Brianna, as you well know, it's explosive enough with so much else going on. The last thing they need is a full scale war between Israel and Hezbollah, which as you also know, is backed by Iran.

KEILAR: Yes. And so you have these tensions, Wolf, with Hezbollah. You also have Benjamin Netanyahu facing re-election. How does that affect the situation politically there?

BLITZER: It's a close election by all accounts if you look at the polls in Israel. It's scheduled for March 17th. And Netanyahu's facing significant opposition from some other politicians, some political parties. You never know how this could impact. On the one hand, if Israel were decisively to win quickly, relatively quickly, it could bolster his popularity.

On the other hand, if this were to drag on and people in Israel would be suffering and extensive casualties were to take place, that could undermine his chances for re-election. So it's certainly not clear which way this could impact the Israeli elections March 17th. He's supposed to come here to Washington to address a joint session of Congress. The speaker, John Boehner, invited him on March 3rd. Let's see what happens because right now it's a very tense situation along Israel's northern border with Lebanon and Syria.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be watching, Wolf, to see if he does end up making that trip. Wolf Blitzer, as always, thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

KEILAR: And just ahead, another storm on the way as New England digs out of the record blizzard. Plus, it will be mostly women who decide the fate of this former NFL star accused of murder. And we've got another interesting fact about the jury that will start hearing the Aaron Hernandez case tomorrow.

And justice 54 years in the making. In 1961, nine men sat at a white only lunch counter and they were thrown behind bars. Today, they face a judge who's uncle sentenced them. See what he did, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Today, a South Carolina judge corrected a 54 year old mistake saying, we can't rewrite history, but we can write history, and he tossed out the convictions of the civil rights activist known as the Friendship Nine, named for the college that most of them attended. In 1961, the men sat at a white only lunch counter in Rock Hill, South Carolina, and they were convicted of trespassing. But instead of paying bail, the students chose their sentence, hard labor. They joined the chain gang and they served most of that 30 day sentence. The prosecutor, who for these convictions to be vacated, laid out the case today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KEVIN BRACKETT, 16TH CIRCUIT SOLICITOR, SOUTH CAROLINA: There is only one reason these men were arrested, there's only one reason that they were charged and convicted for trespassing, and that is because they were black. That could not happen today. It was wrong then. It's wrong today. And these convictions, if they are allowed to stand, would be an offense to justice and they must be vacated and the charges must be dismissed.

You all sacrificed your own freedom to make our country better by making a statement about how segregation was unjust and wrong. It's a better place for me. It's a better place for my daughter. And for a that, I owe you my thanks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And quite a poetic twist here. The judge, who cleared the men today, is the nephew of the judge who sentenced them. CNN's Victor Blackwell was there for this historic day in court.

And, Victor, they didn't start the sit-in trend but they started the jail-no bail trend, which was really important because it was getting so expensive for activists to bail out people charged of crimes. You spoke with these members of the Friendship Nine. They told you they were really scared for their futures back then. What else did they tell you?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, you have to remember that Clarence Graham (ph) was 17 years old in 1961. I mean, imagine that. We all know teenagers. Seventeen, willing to put on the line his well-being, his safety, his freedom to change the status quo. I went back with Clarence Graham to that lunch counter. It used to be the McCory's (ph) Department Store. Now it's a five and dime diner. And we sat in those very seats that they sat in 54 years ago and he explained the time and the choice and why the jail-no bail philosophy really transformed that element of the civil rights movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARENCE GRAHAM, CONVICTION OVERTURNED 54 YEARS LATER: People would spit on us, slap us, curse us, kick us, call us the "n" word, whatever. And oftentimes fights broke out. We had been nonviolent, had to find a way of beating that. Kids all over this country were going to school and going -- demonstrating in the afternoons, after school, in the mornings, and then being arrested, paying the fine, and we weren't making any progress. We wanted to do something that we could make a difference without having to be radical about it.

So the jail-no bail gave us a chance to be arrested, spend the 30 days in jail without paying the money. In so doing, it would help keep the money in our treasury and not swell the treasury of the city and the county. Well after that it caught on by summer. You know, kids from all over the country were filling the jailhouses up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And, Brianna, by that summer, the jail-no bail philosophy spread across the South, across the country. There were thousands of students in jail. And, in time, that lunch counter and lunch counters, as we know, across the country were integrated.

KEILAR: Yes, amazing just their mark on history. But you see this happening today, Victor, and it seems nuts. I mean why -- why did it take so long?

BLACKWELL: Well, there had been initiatives or proposals, pardons for the Friendship Nine. But the solicitor, who accepted the petition today from their actually original attorney from 1961, who was in court with them today, he said that a pardon was wrong because a pardon speaks to forgiveness. And these men did not need to be forgiven, they needed justice. So he vacated - or the judge vacated those charges. They were washed away. Although they did preserve, for the record, that they were charged, just for history sake.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, and that's an important badge of honor that those men wear. Victor, an amazing day there in court. So great that you could be a part of that. Thanks for sharing it with us. Appreciate it. Victor Blackwell for us.

And just ahead, with the New England Patriots gearing up for Super Bowl Sunday, tomorrow opening statements are set to begin for the team's former star tight end, Aaron Hernandez, on trial for murder. It's going to be mostly women deciding his fate. We'll discuss that.

Plus, is ISIS on the run? And are U.S. air strikes starting to take a toll on the terror group? Hear the new evidence against the terror group's momentum.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: As the New England Patriots continue preparation for Sunday's Super Bowl, one of the team's former stars, Aaron Hernandez, is getting ready for a profoundly different event, his trial for murder. The former Patriots tight end is accused of orchestrating the murder of acquaintance Oden Lloyd more than a year and a half ago. The jury has been seated and opening statements are due to start tomorrow. Joining me now to talk about this, we have CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin, and HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

So, what -- this is - this is the jury, right? We have 13 women and five men. So that's like six reserves, basically, is that right?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. Six alternates and we'll probably figure out after the trial who is going to actually be on the jury.

KEILAR: Who's which.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You never want to tell them beforehand.

HOSTIN: But it's overwhelming -

KEILAR: Yes. Yes.

HOSTIN: I mean it's overwhelmingly female.

JACKSON: You want them focused, yes.

KEILAR: OK. But that's a lot more women than men. So what does that tell us?

HOSTIN: You know, I think that that's actually pretty good for the defense in this case.

KEILAR: Yes.

HOSTIN: And I - and Joey may disagree with me, but you've got a good looking defendant. You've got a defendant with a guaranteed $12.5 million. You've got the Patriots playing, his former team, in the Super Bowl this weekend. And I think you're going to have jurors thinking, well, why would he do this? As a prosecutor you never have to prove motive, but they're going to wonder, why -

KEILAR: Yes. It helps if you do.

HOSTIN: Why would he do this.

JACKSON: Right.

HOSTIN: And it especially, I think, will help if you look at some of the statistics and, you know, a lot of female heavy juries really need a lot of evidence to convict. They need solid evidence. And this is by and far a circumstantial case. I don't think they have the goods.

JACKSON: But women are smarter, more analytical and therefore -

HOSTIN: Well, they are. I didn't want to say that, but -

JACKSON: And therefore he just may very well be in trouble.

HOSTIN: Right.

JACKSON: But the reality is, and speaking to the issue of alternates, what they do is they have these 18, and, of course, you only need 12, but they don't tell the other six who they are because they want everyone focused on the actual trial itself. So it's really - you know, I don't know so much that the fact that there are more women than men help him. And we don't know how many of those will be alternates at the end of the day. But we knew - we do know about the evidence. And interestingly enough, Sunny and I were speaking about this.

HOSTIN: Yes.

JACKSON: Now, she's the esteemed prosecutor, of course, and I'm the defense guy, and we have a role reversal here because she really thinks, and could speak very well for herself, that the prosecution's going to have problems. But I think the prosecution, although the case, Brianna, is circumstantial, there's pretty compelling evidence here.

KEILAR: Circumstantial because --

JACKSON: I'll tell you.

KEILAR: There's video - OK, there is -

JACKSON: Right.

KEILAR: There are images of Aaron Hernandez holding a gun in a video.

JACKSON: Exactly.

KEILAR: But they never found a gun.

JACKSON: But, listen -

HOSTIN: They never found a gun tying this to the case. They don't have any eyewitness testimony for the shooting, which is really, really important.

KEILAR: Their - OK, that said - true. But they know that Aaron Hernandez was in the area where Oden Lloyd was.

JACKSON: Yes.

KEILAR: And also there is, shortly before Oden Lloyd was shot to death, he sent this text to his sister. You saw who I'm with, NFL, just so you know.

HOSTIN: That's excluded.

JACKSON: But that's -

KEILAR: That's excluded.

JACKSON: Yes, it is.

HOSTIN: That's not coming in.

KEILAR: Are you surprised at that?

JACKSON: No.

KEILAR: No. OK.

JACKSON: No. Let me lay out the circumstantial and then Sunny can completely, you know, annihilate what I have to say. But let me talk about this. The fact is, Brianna, is that there's very little coincidences in life. So, here we go. We have Aaron Hernandez, who texted two friends of his, right? We have Mr. Wallace and Mr. Ortiz. They're friends of his, co-conspirators, who will be tried separately. He has them meet him.

HOSTIN: Who won't be testifying against him.

JACKSON: No, they won't. But we don't know. Maybe they'll cut - they'll become states' evidence and they'll get immunity. But too early to know. But here we go. We have him, Aaron Hernandez, texting them. We have them, these two, meeting him. They're in a Nissan Altima. It's a rented car. Aaron Hernandez rented it. He's driving the car. They pick him up. That is the deceased, Oden Lloyd, at 2:30 - let me finish - 2:30 a.m. An hour later, Brianna, he ends up dead. They have video surveillance --

KEILAR: Execution style.

JACKSON: Execution style. They have video surveillance of the driver, Aaron Hernandez, driving into the industrial park, driving out of the industrial park. And then, after the shooting, which is close to his home, he's left this industrial park and they have surveillance of Aaron Hernandez walking around with a gun. Are the ladies and gentlemen of the jury really going to presume it's a coincidence?

HOSTIN: It has reasonable -

KEILAR: (INAUDIBLE) reasonable doubt.

HOSTIN: Coincidence doesn't make a first degree murder conviction. You've got to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. This case, in my mind, Brianna, has reasonable doubt written all over it. Maybe his co-conspirators or maybe his friends did it.

JACKSON: Yes, that's what happened.

HOSTIN: Maybe he's now afraid of his friends. Maybe he had the gun because he had to protect himself from his friends. There are so many unanswered questions right now that will be in front of the jury. I think a jury would be loathed to convict, especially this super star athlete with so much to lose.

KEILAR: OK.

JACKSON: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, do you really believe that it was mere coincidence?

HOSTIN: But where's the motive? Where was the motive?

KEILAR: But what about - but we're talking about - let me - but what about a guy who has been indicted for a double murder that happened a year before the Lloyd killing?

HOSTIN: It's not coming -- it's not coming in front of this jury. So this --

KEILAR: That's right. But why -- they don't get to hear that.

JACKSON: No.

HOSTIN: This case is very much about the evidence that's excluded rather than the evidence that will be in front of the jury. My good friend Mark Geragos (ph) often said that these cases, the decisions are made before the jury even hears a piece of evidence. And I think, in this case, he's right.

KEILAR: You think -

JACKSON: I think the prosecution and putting on a compelling case and reminding that jury, those circumstantial evidence is very compelling. I think that they can pull out a victory in this case and get a conviction.

KEILAR: And you - and you think this has to do with sports culture? We were talk about this.

HOSTIN: You know, I do. We were talking about this. I think it's fascinating. I'm very fascinated by the notion of, you know, celebrity sports stars and how we expect them to be very violent on the field, but somehow compartmentalize that and not bring it into their family life.

KEILAR: OK.

HOSTIN: When you look at the stats, there's so much domestic violence in -

KEILAR: Yes.

HOSTIN: You know, with these football players.

KEILAR: But I will -

HOSTIN: So much violence off the field.

JACKSON: Right.

HOSTIN: And I wonder if that's going to play some part in this trial.

KEILAR: OK, I'm going to - let me - I'm going to have the final word on this and say it is football, it's not "The Hunger Games." So, therefore --

JACKSON: I like that.

KEILAR: You know, I don't know. I don't know if I quite buy that, Sunny.

HOSTIN: Sometimes they're one in the same.

JACKSON: And, listen, when I go home, I don't play lawyer, right? I just -- whatever. I'm me. Right?

HOSTIN: Yes. We'll ask your wife that. Because I cross examine my husband every night.

KEILAR: Yes, we'll ask her that.

JACKSON: As a matter of fact, let's not go to evidence, Sunny. Let's not go to the evidence.

KEILAR: All right, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Joey, Sunny, thanks to both of you.

JACKSON: Thank you.

KEILAR: The fall of Kobani to Kurdish fighter this week is giving new hope to the coalition determined to destroy ISIS. The Syrian city was liberated after more than 100 days of brutal fighting. This is a major milestone in this bloody war, but the coalition has its eyes on a bigger prize. Some military analysts believe Mosul in Iraq could be vulnerable. This is a key city. It's the second biggest city in Iraq. You see it there in the north. It has been under ISIS control since last summer. The Pentagon calls this key terrain and it says that a battle for the city is inevitable.