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ISIS Hostage Swap Could Happen at Any Time; Prosecutor: Aaron Hernandez Killed His "Friend"; Prosecutor: Joint Found At Murder Scene; MH-370 Passengers, Crew Presumed Dead
Aired January 29, 2015 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. Thank you so much for being with me. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Right now, it is dark in Mosul, Iraq. A sunset deadline has now officially past on what some are calling and deal with the devil.
Journalists are converging on this border post in Turkey where a hostage exchange could take place any minute between Jordan and one of the most brutal terrorists on earth, ISIS. ISIS had given Jordan until sun down, that's about 4-1/2 hours ago to hand over this woman.
This failed suicide bomber, Sajida al-Rishawi Jordan is desperate to get its army pilot back home, captured by ISIS last month after his fighter jet crashed in Syria. His father saying whatever ISIS wants, Jordan should give them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAFI AL-KASSASBEH, FATHER OF JORDANIAN PILOT HELD BY ISIS (through translator): I want to let everyone know in Jordan from the head of the regime down to the last, the survival of Moaz is the survival of Jordan. They'll make thousands of calculations if Moaz vanishes. Jordan's survival is attributed to survival of Moaz.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Here's the thing. Of course, Jordan says it wants proof this pilot is in fact alive and then there is the Japanese journalist. No word of his fate. But his life and that of the pilot are said to depend on the female bomber's freedom. This is complicated.
Let's take a step back first because who is this woman that ISIS wants? And why is ISIS so keen to get her back? We have traced her back to head of ISIS. Her brother was a comrade to the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq.
The leader was Ayman Al-Zarqari, a man you definitely heard of, and Al-Zarqawi was a mentor to the man who now runs ISIS, Abu Bakr Al- Baghdadi. A lot of names we are throwing at you, but this is also so important here from multiple reasons.
Joining me now, Chris Voss, former FBI lead international kidnapping negotiator. Chris, good to see you again.
CHRIS VOSS, FORMER FBI LEAD INTERNATIONAL KIDNAPPING NEGOTIATOR: Thank you, Brooke. Thanks for having me on.
BALDWIN: I think beyond the lives of all of these people involved, the number one question I have is the logistics of a hostage swap with such a horrendous murderous group of people.
VOSS: Well, yes, the payoff, the exchange in these things, implementation is always in details. While they may be horrendous, murderous thugs, they have a tendency to mean what they say.
So what you have to do is simply iron out the details and then get a feel from the other side as to whether or not you can believe them. ISIS tends to mean what they say so we just don't happen to like what they say.
BALDWIN: So then, if they make good on their word, which is normally never ever, ever a good thing, what then would the swap with ISIS mean for this U.S. led war?
VOSS: Well, ISIS loves it because they're engaging in a diplomatic negotiation at this stage very much like the Bergdahl-Taliban exchange.
BALDWIN: But how is this diplomatic if they are threatening death?
VOSS: Well, yes, it is simply a different means of leverage as far as they're concerned. It's another way of conducting a war. They're trying to conducted war as a state as opposed to gorilla group or an insurgent group. They're casting themselves as a state and they are trying to engage in war, which is what a state would do.
BALDWIN: It's U.S. policy. The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists, but I'm very mindful, you know, thinking about this potential swap, you think about the video of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl swapping with the Taliban. Take a listen to what the White House said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC SCHULTZ, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Taliban is armed insurgency, ISIL is a terrorist group. So we don't make concessions to terrorists groups. I don't think that the Taliban -- the Taliban is an armed insurgency. This was the winding down of war in Afghanistan and why this arrangement was dealt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I mean, Chris, from everything that I've read, you know, Jordan has never publicly done anything like this. So how would this affect, I don't know, rules of engagement or you know, this U.S. led coalition of which Jordan is a partner?
VOSS: Well, Jordan -- in this region of the world engages in these sorts of exchanges on a regular basis. The Israelis are constantly trading prisoners for hostages in their negotiations. This happens in the region all the time.
It's not new for them. We may not particularly like it, but they find it in the ordinary course of business where they live. That's where this is taking place.
BALDWIN: All right, Chris Voss, thank you very much.
Now to Aaron Hernandez, you know, he made millions playing offense. Now the former NFL star must put the defense of his life as his murder trial has now begun.
Their opening statements today, prosecutors showed jurors the face of the shooting victim, Oden Lloyd. He was just 27 years of age. There he is on that monitor, 27 years of age when Hernandez, seated there as well, they say orchestrated Oden Lloyd's death.
He was shot multiple times, found in an industrial park about a half mile from Aaron Hernandez' home. Now the prosecutor went into detail after detail about Hernandez' actions that June night in 2013 talking about surveillance video and the texts and other pieces of evidence that showed how Hernandez allegedly worked with two men to kill Oden Lloyd.
These are the alleged accomplices. They're also facing charges. Their trials will be separate. Oden Lloyd's loved ones were definitely in that courtroom today in Fall River, Massachusetts to hear the devastating play by play including how police found his body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One to the left of Lloyd's foot, one off to the right. Two in that little ditch -- I'm sorry, two in that area to his right, and then one above his head, all to the right side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: But defense attorneys told jurors Aaron Hernandez did not commit the murder and police had tunnel vision in the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL FEE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The evidence will show that Aaron Hernandez did not murder his friend, Oden Lloyd, nor did he ask or orchestrate anyone else to murder him. Aaron Hernandez is not guilty.
We are here because the police and the prosecutors targeted Aaron from the very beginning. As soon as they found out that Aaron Hernandez, the celebrity football player, the New England Patriot, was a friend of Oden Lloyd's, Aaron never had a chance. It was over.
They set out on an investigation, Ladies and Gentlemen, collected evidence, in order to support the story they just told you even when the evidence they collected should have led them in another direction.
They locked on Aaron and they targeted him even when they developed evidence that two other men, who unlike Aaron, were not friends with Oden, were with Aaron and Oden that night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: With me now, I have Criminal Defense Attorney Robert Shock and Ashleigh Banfield, host of CNN's "LEGAL VIEW" so good to have both of you on. Let's begin with you, first prosecution and then defense.
It struck me the prosecutors really quickly got into the weeds of this whole thing. How did they do? What are they trying to prove? Because I find it interesting in Massachusetts they actually don't have to prove that it was Aaron Hernandez, who pulled the trigger.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, CNN'S "LEGAL VIEW": No. He just has to be a part of it. I love that you said weeds because that's usually what it sounds like, but there's this old expression in the courtroom and it's great.
If you have the law on your side, you hammer the law. If facts are on your side, you hammer the facts. If you had neither on your side, you hammer the table, and a lot of times the weeds are the facts and the law. That jury was getting a real road map for how the next ten weeks is going to play out.
BALDWIN: How did they do?
BANFIELD: So I think pretty good. We're not in the courtroom. I always say you can read a transcript. You can hear it on a mic, but it's nothing like having the prosecutor in your face and that jury box. That's all the prosecutor was talking to was 18 members.
ROBERT SCHALK, FORMER ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: They want to play on that emotion. The prosecutor is going to want to go right for the heartstrings. You saw the mother, she was crying. The judge tells them sympathy plays to role in this case. Anyone in the courtroom knows -- exactly.
And for the defense, I mean, they are going to have to rely on the fact that there's no murder weapon. No one puts the gun in Aaron Hernandez' hand. They have to talk about the fact that the surveillance tapes at Hernandez' house were not damaged.
If he knew he did this, he would have destroyed the tapes. He was the only one with access. So that's a point that they definitely hit home.
BALDWIN: We'll get to some of the evidence that's allowed and it's not -- just a minute. But staying with the defense -- right out of the gate, they were saying he is an innocent man. Oden Lloyd was with his friends. They kept saying friends. Why?
SCHALK: Because they want to paint a picture of Aaron Hernandez and Oden Lloyd as the best of friends. He would never do this to his friend. Aaron Hernandez is someone who takes care of his friends. They are going to try to explain why the cars were rented.
He's a millionaire. All of his friends don't have money so he rents cars for people. He lets them live that lavish lifestyle that he lives and if they associate Aaron Hernandez and Oden Lloyd as friends, again, maybe they'll see that he didn't do it.
BANFIELD: I think also in that whole trail of evidence that's so amazingly strong, a surveillance trail that almost leads you right to the murder scene and right to the bullets to the head, all this defense attorney or this team of defense attorneys has to do is figure out a way to get to one of those jurors. And try to get some big piece of doubt.
BALDWIN: Reasonable doubt.
BANFIELD: Well, it has reasonable doubt, but then what is reasonable? Because you might be reasonable about something that I find you unreasonable, and that's where they have to go. They have to get that juror and put some doubt in there and try to convince them that it's reasonable doubt.
BALDWIN: Before that began today, you had this judge saying to these jurors, you know, so specifically down to don't read social media, get away from news, which is obvious, right, in a case like this. The fact that this judge said, you know, if you know someone, who has a newspaper, cut out sections of the Aaron Hernandez trial.
BANFIELD: I covered OJ, Phil Spector, Michael Jackson, and Casey Anthony, I mean, they don't get crazier than that. I have never heard an admonishment to a jury go on as long. I think it was close to five minutes.
BALDWIN: Why do you think that was?
BANFIELD: He is a superstar, but he is no OJ.
SCHALK: Right. But their fear is mistrial. The prosecution doesn't want it. The judge doesn't want it. If you ask me as a defense attorney, I wouldn't mind a mistrial because it's always a second crack at the -- which you don't want to do this.
BANFIELD: Honestly, I think there's more media out there.
BALDWIN: OJ versus today --
BANFIELD: Newspapers, Facebook, Snap Chat, Twitter, you know, every single piece of media that could possibly be there.
BALDWIN: I have so many more questions for the two of you. Stick around. When we come back, we'll talk about the new piece of evidence, this is new, that came out today, a joint was found at the murder scene, and there was Hernandez DNA involved in this.
Plus, a surprising development in the search for missing Malaysian jet, why are officials suddenly referring to Flight 370 as an accident?
And emotions erupting in this room, at this meeting, over Ferguson relations between community and police, we'll speak with one man who was right there.
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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We are watching day one here of the murder trial of former New England Patriot's star, Aaron Hernandez. What could be a key new detail revealed in the prosecution's opening statements about DNA of the former NFL tight end found at the crime scene.
I want you to listen to the assistant district attorney in court today as the murder victim's family breaks down in this courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They find a joint, a marijuana cigarette, to Oden Lloyd's right. That joint is later analyzed and was determined to have Oden Lloyd's DNA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Back with me, Criminal Defense Attorney Bob Schalk and Ashleigh Banfield, anchor of "LEGAL VIEW." And just beginning with that, watching Oden Lloyd's family as we are hearing the prosecution talking about this joint right by his body that had Aaron Hernandez's DNA, what are they getting at there?
BANFIELD: That's what I call really good circumstantial evidence because everyone has been, you know, yelling out. It's only a circumstantial case. Well, guess what? DNA is circumstantial. That's powerful.
A direct witness with glasses in a snowstorm is lousy evidence, but it's direct so that's why circumstantial can be really, really strong.
BALDWIN: Staying on drugs, this is the defense attorney also talking a little bit about motive. Here you go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would you suggest his friend, Odin Lloyd, who misled, his friend, his supplier of marijuana once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Bob, why? Why paint Aaron Hernandez in this light if you're the defense talking about pot smoking and drugs?
SCHALK: Well, listen, I think you're not opening up any new stories to the jury, and try to paint him as a choir boy. He's a professional athlete. He party, drinks, smokes marijuana. Nobody should be surprised. To be honest to you, it was his way of dirtying up Lloyd because Oden Lloyd is not there to defend himself.
He's not there to say I don't smoke weed. I'm not a drug dealer. I don't do anything like that. The defense attorney is now trying to subtlety dirty him up by mentioning that it's with Aaron as well. So it could almost like discredit him.
BANFIELD: Plus you can see it -- you are way more credible in their eyes. You can say my guy is no choir boy, but he's no murderer.
SCHALK: Take it away from the prosecution. I told you about that Ladies and Gentlemen, not them.
BALDWIN: Bob Schalk, Ashleigh Banfield, thank you very much. So much to come, thank you both very much.
Coming up next, a brawl nearly breaks out at a town hall meeting near Ferguson, Missouri. This was supposed to help mend relations between this community and the police. We'll talk to someone in the thick of it. What did he see? Why did this happen?
Also ahead, investigators declare the disappearance of Malaysia Air Flight 370 officially an accident. Hear why and how it impacts all those families coming up. You're watching CNN.
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BALDWIN: Nearly one year after it disappeared, government officials today officially announcing that all passengers and crew on board Malaysia Air Flight 370 are presumed dead. In that same breath they called the loss of the plane an accident.
You know the story. The jumbo jet with 239 on board vanished last March 8th possibly somewhere over the Indian Ocean in route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
But officials stressed the search for the Boeing 777 is not over and despite today's announcement that it's being ruled as an accident. Some victims' relative are not giving up hope that their loved ones could still be found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUI GONZALES, MH370 CREW MEMBER'S WIFE: We are all just waiting and waiting and waiting. We will wait until they come home. We still have faith. No debris, no aircraft, my husband is still out there. The families are all still out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: What does this mean for all these families who are still grieving? Justin Green is a pilot and an aviation attorney, whose firm represents 23 of these victims' families and he joins me now. It's so good to see you, sir.
JUSTIN GREEN, AVIATION ATTORNEY: Thank you for having me.
BALDWIN: Let's just begin with that family members, I mean, you're in touch with 23 families. To hear that this has officially been ruled an accident when nothing has been found. You say it actually benefits the families. Why? GREEN: Legally benefits the families because under the law, the families have two years from the day that the airplane was due back to bring any claim against the Malaysia Airlines. That's on the Montreal Convention.
The claims they have to bring are that their loved ones suffered physical injury or death. In order to do that process, they have to go through obtaining death certificates and this declaration assists them with that process.
What the families really need to hear is this doesn't mean that they're going to stop the search?
BALDWIN: Do some of your family members you're in touch with still believe their loved ones could be OK?
GREEN: I've spoken to many more -- we represent 23. Many of the families do believe that. Believe that it's not at the bottom of the ocean. It may have landed somewhere on land and that their loved ones could still be alive.
BALDWIN: How do -- with nothing out there, nothing found, how is an accident ruled?
GREEN: Well, this is a really unique circumstance. They're using never before kind of analysis of satellite handshakes with the airplanes and satellite receiver to determine that this airplane flew and stopped flying over the ocean.
Really it's the first time this ever happened. Usually almost always you have the wreckage. As Airasia found it, you may go a few days without finding the wreckage, but you do find the wreckage. It can be 100 percent accuracy declared an accident.
BALDWIN: Why do you think they're coming out ruling this an accident now, what are we, end of January, almost to the one year.
GREEN: Nothing has come out to cause them to do it right now. The same information they're using to say it's an accident now was available months ago. My belief is they did it because the anniversary is coming up. They didn't want to do it at or about the anniversary. That's my belief of why they're doing it now.
BALDWIN: OK, Justin Green, thank you so much. Still thinking about those families who have -- some of them holding out hopes all of these months later, thank you very much.
Coming up next, a dad in California is asking his son's school to keep kids, who are not vaccinated out to protect his son. Find out what his ultimate goal is here.
And emotions erupt at this meeting in Ferguson and a brawl breaks out. We'll speak with one man who was right in the middle.
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