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Parents Take On Parents of Unvaccinated; Meeting for Heal in St. Louis Becomes Brawl; African-Americans Top Prime-Time.

Aired January 29, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A 6-year-old boy endured more than 1,000 doses of chemotherapy. His parents are focused on a new threat, the measles outbreak at Disneyland. Rhett Krawitt can't get a measles vaccine because his immune system is too weak. His parents made a plea to the school to ban other non-vaccinated kids but not their son. Four years ago, his parents were watching a baseball game when the little boy woke up screaming. Rhett spent 156 nights in the hospital, got dozens of injections into his spine. On Valentine's Day last year, Rhett's cancer battle came to a truce. He's in remission. Now his parents are fighting against other parents that choose not to immunize their kids.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI KRAWITT, MOTHER OF RHETT KRAWITT: It's not something people run around talking about. It's like religion or other taboo topics. It's uncomfortable if you don't know where someone stands or don't agree.

CARL KRAWITT, FATHER OF RHETT KRAWITT: If our kid is the one that gets sick, well, not only is it tough for us and everything, but that's a vulnerability that he's got to live with. But if there's a family that didn't immunize their child and they are part of that outbreak and they get sick and get our child sick, that's where we have the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dan Simon, you spoke with those parents and found some wiggle room in their request to ban these kids who haven't gotten vaccinations. Explain that for me.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi Brooke. The parents say this is not a ban. When you consider what it is exactly they're asking for, I'm not sure you can call it anything else. This case has the potential to ignite a national conversation. Here's the issue. You talked about it. The 6-year-old boy who has leukemia, he's in remission and doing well, but the chemotherapy treatments weakened his immune system. The vaccinations he got when he was younger are no longer there. He has to get re-vaccinations but he's not strong enough to do so. So they parents, they wrote a letter saying this, they want children who are not vaccinated to be kept from the school, essentially, a ban, unless that child has a medical circumstance like their son.

This is part of my conversation with the parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARL KRAWITT: We want everyone to immunize their children. We're not here to bar kids from going to school.

SIMON: But did you write a letter saying you wanted children that were not vaccinated to not be able to go to school?

CARL KRAWITT: Until they're vaccinated.

SIMON: So you wrote that letter?

CARL KRAWITT: Yes. I'm suggesting by taking a position like that we'll have a conversation and force the school and parents to have are conversations with their pediatricians to help them understand the importance of vaccinating their children. I'm also suggesting that, yes, it would be an important step to take. We live in the reality that because of legal reasons, it probably will not happen. But what we're trying to achieve is herd immunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Well, the school district, Brooke, is certainly not going to follow through with that request, because you've got a little bit of a sticking point. That's called California law. California, like a lot of other states, allows for exemptions when it comes to vaccinations, whether religious or philosophical issue. There are parents at the school that do not want to vaccinate their children. They're in their right to do so. However, if there's outbreak in the school, they'll then take action. At this point, no confirmed cases at that school -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: Where does this leave this child? Have they reached back out to the school? Is this over for now?

SIMON: Seems to be over for now because the school says their hands are tied legally. The child is in first grade today. He's doing well, but like the parents said in that sound bite you played, they really hope this stirs a conversation. It seems to be doing so.

BALDWIN: Certainly does.

Dan Simon, thank you so much for sharing that with us.

Now to this. How far apart are police and the black community in and around the Ferguson community? I want you to watch this video, a meeting at St. Louis city hall. You be the judge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING) (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What is seen? Let me back up and give you context. This was a hearing meant to discuss creating the civilian review board to give this community a better way to communicate with police, better than what you're looking at. This follows the shooting death of the teenager in Ferguson, Michael Brown, and the grand jury decision not to indict the officer that killed him, Officer Darren Wilson.

Many people are blaming police union leader, Jeff Roorda, for starting last night's fight. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I know it's tough to see. But witnesses say he pushed a woman, that was right around him, aside and that set off the crowd. Roorda, by the way, was wearing a wristband. Here it was. It read, "I am Darren Wilson."

I have Bishop Derrick Robinson with me. He was there at the meeting.

Bishop, first of all, welcome. Thanks for coming on.

Everything I read about this meeting, it was absolutely peaceful for about an hour, and then, boom. What did you see? What started that exactly?

DERRICK ROBINSON, BISHOP, KINGDOM DESTINY FELLOWSHIP: Well, how you doing, Brooke? Good to hear your voice, good to see you.

But one of the things that I was very destroyed about the meeting -- in the beginning, it was very peaceful. The young people were being wonderful. The police union, there was about 100 of them. I think we had great dialogue. The police union was saying how distorted they were because of what was going on and the change we were trying to make because the bill was great and extensive. Jeff Roorda, all of his staff was angry. The whole police academy -- association, I should say, they were very upset. So as the meeting began, as the meeting pursued on -- as a matter of fact, there was a text that went out yesterday afternoon stating the police union was wanting to occupy the meeting so we would not have a voice. They actually arose an hour and a half prior to the meeting. When we received that text on Facebook and Twitter, we actually did the same. Some of us arose a little bit later.

But what happened while the meeting was going on -- I'll get straight to the issue --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Yeah. ROBINSON: Jeff Roorda came up to the front, kneeled on his knees,

pulled up his jacket and pulled up his shirt sleeve and that had the "I am Darren Wilson" badge, a wristband. He had been going around the meeting all afternoon. That wristband was never shown. Then he began to walk back to his seat. As a community leader, I went to approach him. I said, Jeff Roorda, I think that is a bad idea of what you're doing. Well --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What was his response to you?

ROBINSON: His response to me, he said, this is his First Amendment right. I said, you're absolutely right. I said, right now, you're a public official. I said I can't say that a -- I can't put on when I'm in my church because I'm a local pastor. I can't say I support a certain election. We can't bring our personal judgment into the pulpit. It's the same -- you have black, whites, Latinos, every person part of this association. You're representing all of them.

BALDWIN: Bishop Robinson, I hear you. I think this sounds like this bracelet really set off a lot of people. I'm trying to wrap my hand around something could go -- sounds like progress potential. Great young voices in this room. You were in the room. Had the police union in the room. Maybe progress, then, bam, the whole thing was set off, which, to me, speaks volumes on the situation in general in your part of the country. That's my thing.

ROBINSON: I would say, Brooke, this has -- I think we're making great progress. Looked like the bill was in our favor. Looked like things were actually happening. Immediately as one of the officers approached the podium, he walked up and kneeled on his knees actually in the middle of a section. He walked up to the front -- which we knew he was trying to incite a riot in the meeting -- pulled up his jacket and shirt sleeve. That's not the end of the story. After I had my conversation with him, he began to walk back toward his seat. I stopped him and had brief dialogue. I began to proceed to my seat. Throughout the meeting, when they would say something, we would have small comments. When we would say something, they had small comments. He stood up in the meeting and said to Chairman Alderman Terry Kennedy, "You need to control your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) meeting." That was his statement. Because of his statement, it was so out of the blue, Chairman Alderman Kennedy said, "This is my meeting, you cannot tell me how to control my meeting."

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: Then Jeff Roorda started to pursue towards Alderman Kennedy. The young lady was in his way. He pushed her twice. Once was caught on camera. And then when he pushed her, persons behind her from the police association began to pull her hair, punch her. That's when the crowd arose from both sides of the fence. It got very heated.

BALDWIN: We can all see that. Let me make sure we got Jeff Roorda's side of the story. He talked to CNN's "New Day." It sounds like what he said to you. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ROORDA, BUSINESS MANAGER, ST. LOUIS POLICE UNION: I have a right to freedom of speech and expression just as the violent protestors in Ferguson that attempted to kill and maim police officers every night, they were defended as exercising their right to freedom of speech. If they were trying to kill police officers, I think I can wear a bracelet in a public meeting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Lots of sides to this story.

You were there. Bishop Robinson, you're a man of faith and fairness. Where does this go now?

ROBINSON: I think where this goes now, there is evidently a major disconnect that relates to our police, law enforcement, and our community. I think right now -- at first, I have to say, it was totally unexpected to have over 100 officers in one room on their off day. I was not expecting that to happen. I was expecting major self- control. It lets us know that, right now, tensions are high in our city. It lets us know how divided our community is, law enforcement on one side and the community on the other side. If our law enforcement is here to serve and protect our community, this cannot happen. Since the Brown incident, there's been five more shootings. That lets us know there's not a joint community.

BALDWIN: Bishop Robinson, we'll check back in on this. You hear from police and you hear how they need their support, right, and the community itself.

Bishop, thank you very much.

ROBINSON: Thank you, Brooke.

ANNOUNCER: this is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: All right. Getting some breaking news in to us at CNN. We're learning four people have been killed after a shooting inside Kabul Airport in Afghanistan. Among the dead, three contractors and an Afghanistan national. The shooter was an Afghan soldier. It is not clear if the Afghanistan national who was killed was the shooter or a victim. Updates as soon as we get them.

We'll be right back.

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BALDWIN: The prime-time drama, it is back with a vengeance. But one noticeable difference, this time around, many of the featuring leading ladies are African-American. Something else that sticks out, viewership of the shows in black households is up big time. The latest edition to the lineup, FOX's "Empire."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been living like a dog for 17 years. And now, I want what's mine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said that about me, forcing me in here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's my $400,000 started this and I want half my company back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Whew. Something else to note, "Empire," like ABC's "Scandal," "How to Get Away with Murder," they all these have African- American producers. Shonda Rhimes and Lee Daniels and Kenya Barris are the brains behind these shows. Neilson say "Empire" is the number-one show this season. More than half the audience, 61 percent, is African-American.

Joining me now, CNN's senior media correspondent and host of CNN's "Reliable Sources," Brain Stelter; and also "Wall Street Journal" senior editor and culture columnist, Chris John Farley; and Angela Rye, principal of IMPACT Strategies, and she also sits on the board of Women and Entertainment Power Network.

Welcome to all of you.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, and RELIABLE SOURCES: Thank you.

CHRIS JOHN FARLEY, SENIOR EDITOR & CULTURE COLUMNIST, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Thank you.

ANGELA RYE, PRINCIPAL, IMPACT STRATEGIES: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Brian Stelter, to you first.

You're the numbers guy and watching the numbers closely. "Empire" ratings up the fourth week in a row.

STELTER: Yes. This hasn't happened in network television for decades. Ratings like this, up and down. These are just up. These went up four weeks in a row. Started with 10 million. Then went up to 10.5, impressive, then 11 and, last night, 11.3 million viewers. This is an era of time shifting where a lot of people are watching dramas like "Empire" days or weeks later. The fact people are coming in live and more people are coming every week is something the whole TV industry is buzzing about.

BALDWIN: Let me hone in on a word you used, "drama."

Chris, you say that is significant. This is representative of the change, instead of comedy with black actors, this is a drama.

FARLEY: We have seen comedies that feature African-American themes and actors over the years, like "The Cosby Show." What's interesting with "Empire," the fact it's drama and it is representing African- American themes. We're seeing that replicated on Shonda Rhimes with "Gray's Anatomy" with such high numbers. We see "How to Get Away with Murder," "Scandal." She really paved the way for a lot of this happening.

But the key thing is whether this is a blip or permanent change in TV landscape. Last year at the Oscars, "12 Years a Slave" won. People said something is changing in Hollywood. This year, all white actors nominated in major categories. Discussions come up now and again. Black people are succeeding more on TV than films. Let's see if it's permanent, if it's a structural change, not a temporary one.

BALDWIN: Let me come back to your point in a minute.

But, Angela, what do you think it is that is really, really drawing the viewers? Topics like homophobia and the black community is a topic. Or is it black actors in leading roles? What is drawing viewers do you think?

RYE: It's a combination of both. Whether talking about our nation's politics. The fact we have a black man at "1600 Pennsylvania" or talking about the fact over time, throughout history, black people are placed in roles to policy change, addressing homophobia or addressing black and white. Black people have always shared the same space. They've always been on the brink of let's see what happens next. Let's push the envelope. If talking about Lee Daniels or Shonda Rhimes, they have both effectively used their platforms to do just that. Before there was Barack Obama, there was Lee Daniels, "The Butler," which he based his story off of "1600 Pennsylvania." He's effectively used that platform. You see these two do the same thing, touching controversial issues through a comedy platform.

BALDWIN: To Chris's point, the overall question is, will this stick or will this be a blip?

STELTER: Success breeds imitation in television. Unlike films, which take years for films to be developed, television comes every season. I think we'll see more like this in the future. It's not just "Empire." "How to Get Away with Murder," which comes back on tonight, has a high proportion of African-American viewers and it's one of the biggest hits of the season. So is "Blacklist" on ABC. We're seeing African-American viewership compelling these shows. They're big hits among all Americans as well, among whites and Hispanics as well. What we're seeing is something that reflects realty. It's a basic concept that we haven't seen in television before. What we're seeing is unique this season. All of Hollywood is paying attention.

BALDWIN: Pushing on all this, you have -- we mentioned these four specific shows on, on two different networks. The fact that we have dedicated an entire segment to talking about the successful African- American viewership, still says to me, we're not there yet.

STELTER: Because it's unique. You're right.

(CROSSTALK)

FARLEY: It's important to note, what's interesting is we're talking about shows in terms of their African-American themes. It's also important to show there are other shows -- why don't they include more black characters? For example, "Girls." I love the show "Girls.". Hilarious funny. It's set in Brooklyn. No minorities in the core cast? What's going on there? We need to move the discussion from not just talking about black shows but all of television.

BALDWIN: How about the fact the young woman, the actress Gina Rodriguez, she beat Lena Dunham in the Golden Globes. That, at least, is progress in that direction.

Angela, I want to hear from you. What are you thinking?

RYE: I think going back to your point, you said we're not there yet, and I think that's absolutely true. When you think about what Viola Davis said, she said, "I want to not feel alone when I look at television," during her awards acceptance speech. That's exactly right. But you have people like Davis in Fortune 500 companies throughout this country. A lot of these faces, we're still not overwhelmingly present. We over index in sports and entertainment. There are certain aspects of society that we still don't exist. For example, you also have Reverend Jackson pushing this Silicone Valley technology initiative to insure there are more people of color in that space. Perhaps again, TV can be used as a tipping point. We've got to open our eyes. We are far too alone not just watching television but when we think about other spaces we're not occupying.

BALDWIN: Can we quote Viola Davis more? She's lovely when interviewing.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Angela, Chris and Brian, thank you all. Appreciate this conversation. (CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Coming up next, happening now, the murder trial of former NFL star, Aaron Hernandez. We're expecting the mother of the victim to take the stand inside the Massachusetts courtroom. We'll have that for you live. Stay right here.

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