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Measles Outbreak; Aaron Hernandez Murder Trial; Mitt Romney Not Running for President

Aired January 30, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me on this Friday.

The big news here from Mitt Romney, he is saying, no, no, he's not running for president 2016. We have now learned Romney does have a dinner date in just a couple of hours with a high-profile GOP presidential contender, none other than New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.

A source tells CNN Romney and Christie will dine in New York City, and both of their wives may attend. And this meeting comes just hours after Romney called donors to announce he's not jumping into the White House race.

Here he was.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that one of our next generation leaders, one who may not be as well known as I am today, one who has not taken a message across the country, one who is just getting started, may well emerge as being better able to defeat the Democrat nominee.

In fact, I expect and hope that to be the case. I feel that it's critical that America elect a conservative leader to become our next president.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So you know the deal. Romney now can lend his support to whomever he chooses and his list of wealthy donors to the Republican of his choice.

Let me bring in Michael Smerconish, political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," who let me just begin with, you were tweeting something how you like your crow served up with a side of A1 sauce?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This is where I'm regretting that you are following me on Twitter, because...

BALDWIN: I follow your every move, Smerconish.

SMERCONISH: Brooke, on "NEW DAY" today, I said why else would he make such a big deal out of gathering together supporters? BALDWIN: And 11:00, everyone gather and listen.

SMERCONISH: Unless he were running. I was caught flat-footed on this one.

Interesting that he's going to have dinner with Chris Christie, because the biggest beneficiary of this is Christie.

BALDWIN: Why?

SMERCONISH: There would not have been enough oxygen in the room in the establishment portion of the GOP for Mitt, for Jeb, and for Christie. Jeb Bush has the name. Jeb Bush has a national network because of the family having run so many elections. He's ready to go.

Chris Christie needs to fund-raise and needs to get out there and establish that network. I just don't think there would have been enough money out there for Christie and other two. But now the dynamics have changed.

BALDWIN: I want to come back to the Bush name, which could hurt him, depending on who you talk to.

But first on the establishment notion, you have the establishment Republicans and then the fresh faces. Right? It was Mark Rubio who said this. This was at very end of his statement on Romney today. "He certainly earned the right to consider running. So, I deeply consider his decision to give the next generation a chance to lead."

The next generation. Who are the faces? Who are the fresh faces potentially? Who are the establishment?

SMERCONISH: They are not Jeb Bush. They don't include Jeb Bush.

I found it very interesting that the sound bite that you played a moment ago was Governor Romney saying there's someone else out there, perhaps not as well known as I am today.

And I said to myself, hmm. The Bush family name is pretty darn well known. I don't think he was talking about Jeb. He may have been talking about Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio would like to think that. He may be thinking about Ted Cruz, although I doubt it. He may be thinking about Rand Paul.

But there are a lot of those what are on the cusp. Scott Walker is probably a great name as well. A lot of those who are perceived as second tier who perhaps in this cycle will move to the first.

BALDWIN: You mentioned Rand Paul.

SMERCONISH: Right.

BALDWIN: Rand Paul tweeted out this fake phone call between Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you mean Jeb? It's clearly my turn. Bush, Clinton, Bush, now Clinton.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Hillary, there hasn't been a Republican White House without a Bush since 1977. And we're ready to be back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me shoot straight with you, Jeb. OK? Bill and I are dead broke. We need a place to stay; 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, it is calling me home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Read my lips, Hillary. We're not backing down this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You know what? On second thought, maybe we can work something out. We both agree on so many issues, bigger government, Common Core, and amnesty for illegal immigrants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we have both got problems. You have got problems with the grassroots, and I have got all those damn conservatives. What say we make a deal?

Sorry Hillary, I have to go. Mitt keeps calling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, for crying out loud.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. So cue the laughter. Here, they're mocking these two really dynasties, the Clintons and the Bushes.

SMERCONISH: Sure.

BALDWIN: And it was even Barbara Bush. Do you remember that sound bite from her years and years ago saying America doesn't need another Bush in the White House?

SMERCONISH: Of course. Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Do you think there's a point in that?

SMERCONISH: In the humor from Rand Paul? I think he needs to borrow some "SNL" next time. I love it conceptually, but as it wore on, it wasn't as funny as it maybe could have been.

I think it's a point he's trying to drive home, which is we have been down this road before. It's the same old, same old. You're going to hear a lot of talk about change, this time from the Republicans in this cycle.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How do you mean? Change of what sort?

SMERCONISH: When faced with the prospect of yet another Bush in the White House, I think some of those opponents of Jeb like Rand Paul will be inclined to say it's time for a fresh face and a name perhaps that you haven't heard before.

BALDWIN: OK. Michael Smerconish, thank you so much.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Saturday morning, tomorrow morning, 9:00 a.m. Eastern here. Losing my track of days. It's been a week.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Now to the second day of the Aaron Hernandez murder trial.

It's also the second consecutive day the mother of the victim has left the courtroom in tears after seeing photos of her son's bullet-ridden body, shot six times in June of 2013. Odin Lloyd was just 27 years of age. While Lloyd's loved ones wept, Hernandez turned his gaze to the image shown right there to the court of the body of the man who defense attorneys say was the former New England Patriot's friend.

In the two days so far, Hernandez's ex-teammates will fight for victory -- in the coming two days, of course, the Super Bowl happening. He was a former Pat. Pats taking on the Seahawks in Arizona on Sunday. All this happening while Hernandez is fighting for his freedom, facing life in prison if convicted of first-degree murder.

Today, jurors learned more about how Hernandez knew Lloyd. How close was this friendship? We saw Lloyd's girlfriend, who is also the sister of Hernandez's fiancee. Right? There's a lot of connections here. She took the stand and talked about how the men got to know one another.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior to that date, how would you have described their relationship?

SHANEAH JENKINS, VICTIM'S GIRLFRIEND: like beginning stages of a friendship. From what I'm aware of, they were only really around each other and communicated when I was there, me and my sister were present.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: She also put on the record that her boyfriend would not supply marijuana to Hernandez, who once had a contract worth $40 million.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENKINS: Hang out and smoke. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. When you say hang out and smoke, how did you

know that?

JENKINS: You could smell it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Were there other occasions you actually saw them smoking together?

JENKINS: A few.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And where would they smoke when you were able to see them?

JENKINS: Either outside or when we were together in other places.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And in terms of -- do you know where the marijuana was coming from?

JENKINS: Either Odin or Aaron.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Were there ever occasions that -- when you went to pick up Odin that after picking him up you would go somewhere?

JENKINS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where would you go?

JENKINS: To go pick up marijuana.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And how far or how close or far was that from Odin's home?

JENKINS: Maybe two minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And when he would go there, would he go in to to -- or meet with somebody?

JENKINS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then after that, would he come back to the car?

JENKINS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where would you go?

JENKINS: We would go to North Attleboro.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, North Attleboro is where Aaron Hernandez lived with his fiancee.

With me now, trial attorneys Eric Guster and Carmen St. George.

Thank you for coming in. ERIC GUSTER, ATTORNEY: Thank you for having us.

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, ATTORNEY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let me just begin with you, Carmen. As a prosecutor, what is the prosecutor here trying to get at with this woman's testimony? What are they trying to establish?

ST. GEORGE: They're trying to establish that the relationship was not as close as the defense attorney would like you to believe.

BALDWIN: Between Hernandez and Odin Lloyd?

ST. GEORGE: Exactly, because the more distance they put to that relationship, less of a motive is created.

So the prosecution here wants to say, hey, they weren't even that close of friends. There's the belief that the defendant doesn't have that connection.

BALDWIN: OK.

So this is also -- this is part of it that I think fascinates me is this connection. You have two sisters here. When you imagine the courtroom, you have two sisters. You have the woman who testified who was dating the victim, Odin Lloyd, and she is sitting with Odin Lloyd's family on one side of the courtroom. The mother keeps getting up and leaving, weeping in tears.

On the other side of the courtroom, you have that woman's sister, who was engaged -- who I guess is engaged to Aaron Hernandez, sitting with his mother. All right? This is a family divided and this is a courtroom divided.

So, Eric, my question to you is, if you are a juror sitting in that courtroom, how can you not watch those two sides and have it affect you?

GUSTER: Jurors watch everything.

And the judge is going to instruct them that you can't let emotions come into play when you're deliberating. But jurors watch every move, every flinch, and everything that goes on in that courtroom, because that's the most important thing that has happened to them in years, that they are on a murder trial and going to decide a man's fate.

And I have had a case where families were divided like this. It's not very uncommon actually in certain jurisdictions. For example, if a father kills or fights with a brother, or the son or two brothers fight and someone gets shot, that's a common denominator when it comes to trials like this.

BALDWIN: OK. And so you are instructed as a juror not to be paying attention to that and to this mother who is getting up weeping for a second time. GUSTER: Right. And not to let the emotions overshadow your verdict,

because people look at the mother and she's crying. But the judge wants the jurors to pay attention to the evidence.

Let's see what the weight of the evidence is. Although you see the mom crying, you can't let the mother's emotion cloud your judgment, because these 12 -- these jurors are going to decide a man's fate. You can't say this man's mother is weeping, so I really want to get a conviction for her. It depends on the evidence.

BALDWIN: You know what else, if I were a juror, I would be paying attention to, whether I'm supposed to or not, is the defendant, Aaron Hernandez. I would be looking at him. I would be looking at his -- he was chewing gum yesterday.

He was sitting almost seemingly emotionless next to that computer screen showing the victim, the body of the victim in that industrial park. What -- how do you read into that?

ST. GEORGE: As a juror, you look at everything, as stated.

But this defendant here is brought up to be a gladiator on a field. He's a football player. He was. And so now in court, you want to portray him as this lamb on the street. And he's having a difficult time doing that.

He's not the friendly face. He doesn't come in weeping and he doesn't come in with a sorrowful feeling. You're not getting that attachment as a juror that this defendant feels so remorseful.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: His lawyers have to be talking to him and saying, listen, watch how you -- right?

ST. GEORGE: Right.

GUSTER: That's part of the defense. This is the way you need to look in court. This is how you need to dress. This is how you need to sit. Don't chuckle. Don't give emotions or answers like this and that, because jurors are looking at those things.

They can weigh to a juror's decision. When I advise clients who are going to trial, I advise how to dress, how to sit, how to act, because from the moment you walk in the door, everything you do...

BALDWIN: Eyes on you.

GUSTER: ... goes to the juror's eyes. And they will pay attention to all of it.

BALDWIN: Eric and Carmen, thank you both very much.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Appreciate it. We're only on day two. And tonight, CNN looks inside the case against Aaron Hernandez and how

this man went from this NFL star to accused killer, 9:00 Eastern here on CNN.

Just ahead, first on CNN, one of the Gitmo detainees released in the swap for Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl has tried now reaching out to militants. Hear how the White House is responding to that.

Plus, as the measles outbreak grows, are fans going to the Super Bowl at risk? There's a tie here. We will share that with you and we will tell you what health officials are advising if you're going to Phoenix.

And the rap mogul Suge Knight, no stranger to trouble, he's behind bars today, arrested in this deadly hit and run. We will tell you what happened in the moments leading up to that. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We do have some new information about the so-called Taliban five. These were the men the Obama administration traded last year for captured American Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl.

CNN is now learning that at least one of these men may have reconnected with the Taliban, a worst-case scenario. The swap was controversial for myriad reasons, critics saying it was a bad idea that would put militants back on the battlefield and a violation of U.S. policy not to negotiate with terrorists.

And the timing here, the timing of this revelation could not be more intriguing, the U.S. now being forced to revisit accusations of hypocrisy and semantics as its ally Jordan is waiting for word of its own possible hostage swap with ISIS militants. It's a move the U.S. does not approve of.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Our view and our position as the United States government is that we don't concessions to terrorists.

Now, there are certain circumstances -- and you have been talking a little about Bowe Bergdahl this morning, where he was a member of the military, someone who had volunteered to serve his country. And we don't leave our men and women behind. We took steps to bring him home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Buck Sexton, CNN political commentator and former CIA counterterrorism analyst.

Good to see you again, sir.

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We will get to Jen Psaki's point in just a moment.

But, first, we talked about this when this whole deal went down and the controversy swirling around it. To know that this individual has reached out to militants once he was returned, is that really a surprise?

SEXTON: Absolutely no surprise.

It's well known that the recidivism rate for people released from Gitmo is estimated to be 25 to 30 percent. Some say it's a little higher. Some say it's a little lower. But what do you think is going to happen when someone has been in captivity in Gitmo for years?

They're going to go back into society somewhere else and be upstanding citizens? The individuals released here, the Taliban five, include people who were wanted for war crimes, for crimes against humanity, not just for ties to al Qaeda and to terrorist groups.

BALDWIN: Even though they say they're keeping tabs on them for a year?

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: They say they're keeping tabs on them for a year. That's clearly not long enough. They can wait that out. They have waited quite a while in Gitmo.

BALDWIN: What about Jen Psaki's comments? Everyone knows the U.S. doesn't negotiate with terrorists. But she saying they can make concessions in certain circumstances. We were asking -- someone was asking about Bowe Bergdahl. My question to you would be, doesn't that sort of muddy the waters, so to speak?

SEXTON: Well, first off, this idea that we don't negotiate with terrorists is just not true. It's historical not true. It's a guideline, it's not a rule. There are in fact times when the U.S. has been forced to negotiate with terrorists in the past to get the release of prisoners and for other reasons.

But also this separation of the Taliban vs. ISIS, with the administration's line that somehow the Taliban, we're ending hostilities with them, so this is normal, this is within our historical tradition -- first of all, that's just an outright line. The Taliban has not ended hostilities with us and we have not ended hostilities with them. And then on top of this, the idea that they're a sort of a terrorist group, but not really a terrorist group, I don't know what the administration thinks they're trying to convey with that.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Here's the exact wording. Taliban is an armed insurgency. ISIS is a terrorist group.

SEXTON: Well, that's flatly ridiculous.

ISIS is an armed insurgency as well and is just as much a terrorist group -- and the Taliban is just as much a terrorist group. There's really no meaningful distinction you can make between the two, except the negotiation has already negotiated with the terrorists of the Taliban and so they want to pretend that there's some distinction they're making, some principle that is separating this.

BALDWIN: Which just makes me wonder about this potential negotiation. I do that in air quotes, because we don't know the status of, A, this Jordanian fighter pilot or even this Japanese hostage, right, that we have seen in the ISIS videos. This notion that Jordan would negotiate or do this swap for -- ISIS wants back this Iraqi woman, this female suicide bomber who was strapped to the gills, that didn't go off in that attack.

How would all of that affect that potential swap? Wouldn't she potentially then obviously -- she's going back to bad guys with ISIS if that were to happen.

SEXTON: She would be going back if the Jordanians released her. I have to say I think it's unlikely, because ISIS' demand from the start was you release her, and we just won't kill the pilot. They have been moving the goalposts and changing essentially what their demands all along.

Remember, at one point, it was $200 million for the two Jordanian hostages -- for the two Japanese hostages. And then they added now the Jordanian hostage and the Japanese hostage maybe won't be killed if you release al-Rishawi...

BALDWIN: Preposterous.

SEXTON: .. who is on death row for trying to suicide -- trying to be a suicide at a wedding, where her husband was unfortunately successfully a suicide bomber.

And the Jordanians call this their 9/11. I think this could have implications though that ISIS, if they do execute this hostage, the pilot -- and I'm worried that they will. I think it's still probably going to happen. If that were to happen, the Jordanians have tried to stay out of this as much as they can. They have been drawn into it, obviously.

I have been to refugee camps at Zaatari. I have seen how Jordan is increasingly pulled into the vortex of Syria. If they execute a Jordanian on TV and they release this to the rest of the world on TV, I think we could expect an even accelerated cooperation with the Jordanian government trying to fight against ISIS, because is a war against all regional partners and I think everyone needs to understand that.

BALDWIN: What about that Iraqi female suicide bomber?

SEXTON: She would be of propaganda value mostly. We're seeing this now, by the way. We see this with the wife of one of the shooters in France. They want these people who are sort of high profile in the jihadist community because they're trying to essentially build this ideology along with the state of the Islamic State.

And so part of this is tying it back to al Qaeda in Iraq 1.0. Now ISIS is al Qaeda in Iraq 2.0. There are actually direct ties between her, it's believed, and some of the earliest sort of founding fathers of al Qaeda in Iraq.

BALDWIN: Exactly right.

SEXTON: This is major propaganda coup if they get it. But I don't think the Jordanians are going to release her.

BALDWIN: Buck Sexton, thank you.

SEXTON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We have heard all of the problems with the NFL that they're dealing with, the season from hell, as one of my guests wrote about in "GQ."

Now we're just days ahead of the Super Bowl. Here's a new one, measles, measles in the same state as the huge game, what health officials are doing about that. That's coming up next.

Plus, a defense attorney is reportedly trying to get a rape conviction thrown tossed out just days after these two ex-Vanderbilt football players were found guilty. The lawyer says a juror hid some incredibly key information. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just about the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And all this talk about the measles outbreak, do you know it's now put a spotlight on the host city for Sunday's Super Bowl, Phoenix? Yes, at least 14 states have confirmed measles cases this year, including at least seven cases in Arizona.

The disease can spread as people travel. That is a huge, huge cause for concern obviously among health officials. The CDC recommends people who are sick should stay away from Sunday's game, as Arizona health officials continue to monitor hundreds of potential new cases.

Let's go to our CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, who is in Phoenix.

Elizabeth, this is potentially a huge deal. Is the CDC concerned about the Super Bowl with all these people rushing into town?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know what, Brooke, they are concerned, because this is a bad combination.

You have one of the most contagious diseases known to man, which is measles, and this huge gathering of people from all over the world. That's not a great combination.

Now, having said that, most people are vaccinated against the measles. And so that's a good thing. And so I wouldn't say that health officials I have been talking to are panicked, but they are concerned.

BALDWIN: When we talk about the contagion factor, and I just always want to bring this up because it boggles my mind, you can get the measles if somebody had the measles, was in a room, leaves, two hours later, someone else comes in. You can get the measles. That's how highly contagious it is.

I mentioned seven confirmed measles cases in Arizona. Tell me about the contact state health officials are really concerned with.

COHEN: OK.

So, Brooke, let's think -- let's talk about the family that started all of this.

BALDWIN: OK.

COHEN: A family from Arizona went to Disneyland. But this wasn't just any family. This was a family that refuses to vaccinate their children.

So, four member of this family get the measles. And now that family has 1,000 contacts. So, I know 1,000 sounds like, gee, how could four people have 1,000 contacts? But when you think about it, you know, kids go to school. These kids, we know, went to a clinic. Maybe they went to church. So, 1,000 contacts again, most of them likely vaccinated, but, still, some of them are babies who are too young to be vaccinated.

Those are the ones that doctors really worry about.