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Bobbi Kristina Brown Found Unresponsive In Bathtub; Measles Outbreak Jhas Spread To At Least 14 states; Murder Case Against Aaron Hernandez Begins; Kenji Goto Beheaded By ISIS
Aired January 31, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MALE ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow.
We are following breaking news for you this afternoon. The late superstar Whitney Houston's daughter had been found unresponsive in a bathtub full of water. Police tell us here at CNN that Bobbi Kristina Brown, 21 year old, was not breathing when her husband and friend found her this morning in a home outside of Atlanta. It is a disturbing echo of her mother's tragic death almost three years ago.
Whitney Houston was found face down in a bathtub in the Beverly Hills Hilton just hours before she was set to attend a pre-Grammy party. Whitney Houston accidently drowned in 12 inches of water, and her death blamed in part on years of cocaine abuse.
We are covering every angle of this breaking story, getting new developments as we speak, and the reaction to a new chapter in the Houston family saga.
Let's beginning with our Nick Valencia. He is outside of the hospital there in Atlanta where Kristina is being treated. What can you tell us about Bobbi Kristina's condition at this hour, Nick?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Hey, Poppy, we showed up here just a little while ago. North Fulton Hospital is in Roswell, which is about 45 minutes to an hour north of Atlanta.
Here at the hospital, very little activity. I, just short time ago, I walked inside to try to inquire, of course, because of strict HIPA laws, they did not give men any information. And they actually asked me to leave the premises. So we are waiting to hear back from the hospital. We have inquired with different information officer to try to get more information as far as the condition as far as Bobbi Kristina.
So far, we do not have anything official from North Fulton hospital. And as you were mentioning, just a recap, Bobbi Kristina was found at 10:25 this morning in her home by a her husband and a friend. It is reported that the husband and friend did attempt to revive her using CPR techniques until the paramedics arrive. She was then reportedly brought here shortly afterwards to North Fulton hospital. And we are waiting to try to get an update on her condition -- Poppy. HARLOW: And, Nick, we also do have some images that right now we're
working to get up for the viewers. I will bring them up to you as soon as we can, but images taken as recently as late last night, obviously, before this all unfolded, about 10:30 a.m. this morning. As soon as we have those, we'll bring this to you.
But Nick, let me ask you this. A lot of people are talking about any potential substance involved in this, obviously, there was a lot of talk about whether she had struggled a little bit with drug use. Look, this is a 21 -year-old girl here. We've all been in our 20s. We don't want to jump to any assumptions here. But are you hearing anything on that front?
VALENCIA: Well, there's certainly wide spread speculation, especially else in 2012. They had a brief reality TV show called "the Houston." And that fill some speculations that then underage Bobbi Kristina was perhaps dabbling in drug use or alcohol abuse. That, of course, we cannot confirm, and it was just speculation.
But you mentioned those pictures. She was very active on social media, especially Instagram. And according to her Instagram, she posted a photo just a selfie, so-called selfie, at about 2:00 a.m. this morning. So we don't know the details or what may have led to her being found unresponsive. We do know, though, that she was found in a similar situation that her mother was, which is, as you mentioned, Poppy, bringing up echoes and a very uncomfortable echoes for her family and friends. Very many people concerned, especially in the Atlanta area that the father and mother, Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, very high profile and prominent musicians in their time. And many people here in this community are well aware of the issues that the family has faced in the past, which led to a lot of speculation.
But officially, no word exactly what led to Bobbi Kristina's current condition. And we are waiting, as I mentioned, to hear back from North Fulton hospital. And as soon as we do, we'll bring you those details, Poppy.
HARLOW: All right, Nick Valencia, thank you so much. Standby.
Let's bring in my colleague/CNN anchor Don Lemon. He joins me on the phone. Also, a defense attorney, Joey Jackson, who covered the death of Whitney Houston with us. You know the family well, a lot of sources learned about this this morning as we have. What do you know at this point?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR, CNN TONIGHT (via phone): We know that police did do life saving measures on the scene to get her to breath. And, again, as Nick has been reporting, she's in the hospital. We do know that she is -- it's been -- I don't want to call it speculation, just been in the media that has been reported she has issues with drugs, and the family has eluded to that as well. So it's not a secret. And we keep dancing around that issue and we are dancing around the issue of it's just a coincidence about the bathtub.
Coincidences just like that do not usually happen. You know, for your mother to have died in the bathtub, you know, with 12 inches of water, and you to be found in the bathtub with water, I mean, that is, you know, let's be just honest about that.
She has been dealing with some issues, and it's been publicly dealt with it. And she's been in the spotlight all her life having to deal with that. And so, I -- I would assume and listening to the family and to sources that Nischelle Turner has been reporting to as well has been talking to as well, that she's going through some things. And sadly, she's going through it publicly. I don't know if it's an attempt on her own life. I don't know if this was drug related, but the odds that she was found in the bathtub and her mother in the bathtub and it's just a coincidence, that just does not happen.
HARLOW: And Don, stay with me. I want to bring Joey Jackson in her. And as I do, let me remind our viewers. Again, all we know is that she was found unresponsive in the bathtub. We don't know if she's breathing. We don't know if she is breathing at the hospital, if she is breathing on her own or with a ventilator, but our sources have been telling Sunny Hostin among others that she is breathing, we just don't know if it's on her own or not.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank goodness.
HARLOW: Let me show this image to our viewers. This is the selfie that Nick Valencia talked about from Bobbi Kristina's Instagram account taken late last night in the red sweater there about 2:00 a.m. eastern time, we are told, selfie like a lot of us take and post on Instagram. And can't read a lot from the picture, but that is the most recent image that we have of her, again, she was found at 10:30 a.m. eastern time this morning. So just about eight and a half hours later by her husband and a friend in the bathtub.
Joey Jackson, to you, as the investigation is in the early stages, what are they looking at now?
JACKSON: Toxicology, toxicology, toxicology. First things first, certainly, we hope and we pray that she's OK and that resolves itself in a positive way. But as you look at this investigation and you determine what, if anything, happened to her and, you know, whether there's instances of abuse of drugs, we just don't know. But certainly, as she's in the hospital, toxicology tests will examine what was the nature of the bloodstream and what, if any, substances were in the blood.
It is also important to examine that it was February 11th, Poppy, of 2012, that of course, Whitney Houston unfortunately died, and so was it a coincidence that occurred? Was she, you know, mentally perhaps having depression as a result of that? Don't want to speculate. Certainly don't know, but I think the investigation will include all of that, but most critical will be what, if anything, was in her bloodstream.
HARLOW: And Don, to you. Can you talk a little bit about the relationship between, you know, this young 21-year-old girl, the only daughter of Whitney Houston and her mother? How close were they?
LEMON: As close as a mom and daughter could be. As I go back to recall images of Houston during the Grammy festivities back in 2012, there was barely a picture with Bobbi Kristina, about Bobbi Kristina was not in it with her mother. She was at the nightclub with her mom the night, last night that she went to the nightclub and went back to the hotel. She was at the hotel with her mom. She was actually staying with her mother at the hotel the night that she died and I think went out even to eat or went to shop or something, and then came back to the hotel, and that's when he mom had passed away. And she could not get near her mother. The security at the hotel and police officers would not let her near the room. And she became very upset. She had to be taken to the hospital that night and given sedatives and was on medication after that, even during the funeral because she was so upset, so very close relationship with her mom. As I say, (INAUDIBLE).
HARLOW: Don, what do we know about her husband? She recently married a man named Nick Gordon, but this was a man incredibly close to the family, lived in the household while Bobbi Kristina was also growing up there.
LEMON: Yes, they did. He lived in the household. It was a family friend. And they looked upon this young man as, you know, called him a cousin, right, or like a brother. People became concerned because they were -- they thought they were being intimate and developing a relationship. And as it turns out, they were, and they ended up getting married.
The family has also been concerned about the relationship. That maybe he, you know, has some sort of power or influence over her they would rather him not have.
HARLOW: And to you, Joey Jackson, you were here for hours covering the death of Whitney Houston. When you look at this, and good news is that sources tell reporters here she is breathing.
But look at this, and you think about, you know, all this 21-year-old girl has gone through, losing her mother, and all the pain with that --
JACKSON: That's a lot.
HARLOW: Being in the spotlight, what do you think?
JACKSON: It's a lot, Poppy. And obviously, you know, when you grow up in an environment like that, and you know, having the mother be the star she was, and the dad, of course being the star he is, it's a lot to stomach. And again, we don't know what, if any, ailment she may have suffered from? Was she getting therapy? Was she in depression? You know, where there any other substance she was taking or not taking, was this a simple accident?
And so, I think as the investigation unfolds, certainly, we'll learn. And we don't know. It's very frustrating at this point. But, you know, again, we hope and we pray that she's OK. We know what happened to her mom. Certainly, we don't want that to happen to her.
HARLOW: Our thoughts with her and her entire family. We'll keep you, of course, updated on the story. Don Lemon, thank you, and Joey Jackson, thank you and for our Nick
Valencia who will remain at the hospital throughout the evening. We will bring you any developments.
We are also going to focus on our other headlines namely this is startling number of Gitmo. Guantanamo Bay detainees return to the life of extremism. Despite that, the outgoing defense secretary says he felt pressure, pressure from the White House to release more and to do it quickly. His exclusive interview with our Barbara star coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Well, a freed Guantanamo Bay detainee traded for sergeant Bowe Bergdahl may have tried to reconnect with the Taliban. I'm talking about one of the so-called Taliban five. You remember these images. They were -- these are five former Guantanamo bay detainees who were released few months ago in exchange for Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl who had been held prisoner by the Taliban, that American citizen.
Now, the troublesome revelation comes as CNN had an exclusive interview with outgoing defense secretary Chuck Hagel. He told our Barbara Starr that he clashes and clash sometimes with White House officials over the pace of the releases for other Guantanamo detainees. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I have made it clear that I will not certify or sign anything to release a detainee as long as I'm secretary of defense unless I am convinced that it is in the best interest of this country and the substantial mitigation and risk can be verified as closely as we can verify.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: You brought it up, you said it, no everyone at the White House agrees with you.
HAGEL: Yes.
STARR: Tell us more.
HAGEL: Well, I think the press has been very clear on that, and I think --
STARR: Let's hear it in your own words. Have you --
HAGEL: What I said is what I just said. Not everyone at the White House agrees with me.
STARR: On what part of this?
HAGEL: Probably on the pace of releases.
STARR: Because you've been cautious?
HAGEL: Because I had the responsibility. And I play my own game here. And that is because by law I am the one, the one official in government charged with certification of releasing detainees. I take that responsibility very seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Let me bring in Republican Congressman Ed Royce, chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. Thanks you for being here, sir. I appreciate it.
REP. ED ROYCE (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE COMMITTEE OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: Just your and reaction to what Chuck Hagel said there.
ROYCE: Well, I think this is very unfortunate. As Secretary Hagel said, he has the responsibility. He's trying to protect U.S. servicemen. We know that 30 percent of those who have been released so far have ended up back on the battlefield. And, of course, the targets are Americans.
And so, this is -- this is a case where the defense department is pushing back. The Pentagon saying, no, no, this is very risky, but the White House wants to close Guantanamo Bay, of course. And to do that, they have to transfer those prisoners out of there, and they are doing it without an end to hostility.
HARLOW: So it's important to tell the viewers that number you're talking about is from this September semiannual report from the director of national intelligence which did, indeed, find a 17 percent of the 620 Guantanamo Bay detainees released have returned to militants activity in some way, 12 percent suspected at least of doing so --
ROYCE: Let me correct you, Poppy.
HARLOW: That's what the report said.
ROYCE: Yes. But the 12 percent are single source. Evidence from the single source that they returned to hostilities, and the remainder are from multiple sources. So they have returned. It's about 30 percent that have returned to.
HARLOW: Right. And either way you cut it, it is an astonishing number.
ROYCE: Right.
HARLOW: Let me ask you this. You have said to see exchange of five Taliban members from Gitmo for Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. You called it a lousy deal. But here is the thing. What would you do instead?
ROYCE: Poppy, first of all, I think to negotiate directly with terrorists that is something that the United Kingdom and the United States has tried to avoid. In a case like this where the Taliban is still waging war, I think you have to continue to hold them. And think for a minute about who we released here. You know, this is the defense minister puzzled. This was the
commandant (INAUDIBLE). These individuals were responsible for the single worst atrocity against civilians in Afghanistan, 5,000 minorities slaughtered, women raped, and sold into slavery, to put these men into custody in Qatar where they are going to have -- would there only going to be under observation for a year, is to risks the fact that after that year is over, most, I believe, will return to the battlefield and will continue to target Americans. It is not a good precedent to set.
HARLOW: So what -- because when you also look at this report from September, it also says that the majority of those released that did returned to militant activity were released under the Bush administration. So this has happened in the previous administration as well.
The question is, what do you do then? Do you not close Guantanamo Bay? Do you keep them there because you really think what other government can we trust?
ROYCE: But we're looking now at those at highest risk, the five that we've mentioned here yes, they are part of the Taliban, but three of them have very close ties to Al-Qaeda. So we are now at high risk.
My argument is against releasing those who are high risk because they are not only the most likely to come back into the fight, but they are the most capable once they are back into battle to be able to inflict major damage on U.S. forces or on our allies. And that's why I call into question this strategy, and I think you can already see by the conundrum that is put Jordanians in, that was it was a bad precedent to set.
And I will also say this. As long as the U.S. and the UK resisted compromise with terrorists or paying ransom to terrorists, we were in a strong position. We were not like Switzerland or France, where they were trying to take our captors in order to trade them, right?
HARLOW: Congressman, I'm running out of time, but I just to get this clearly, so then you are saying do not release them. Do you keep Guantanamo Bay open? Do you keep them there indefinitely?
ROYCE: The highest risk, I believe you should keep at Guantanamo Bay until we can resolve the struggle with the Taliban. And I would suggest that with both the Pakistani government at war with the Taliban and with the Taliban at war with us and with the Afghan government, we should not be releasing their senior leadership.
HARLOW: But Guantanamo bay is the reason that many of these terrorists use to wage jihad against western nations.
ROYCE: I heard the president say that. I do not believe that's the reason they wage terror against us, the fact we hold them in captivity. I believe they wage a terror war against us because they want to create a caliphate, you know, and want only people to believe their way, their jihadist ideology, and that's why they kill the religious minorities and that's why they target the west. HARLOW: Congressman, it is good to have you on the program. Thank
you.
ROYCE: Thank you, Poppy.
Just 15 years ago, it looked like measles was a disease that was no more in the United States. And now more states are reporting a number of cases in a fast moving outbreak. How did this happen? How dangerous is it? We'll talk with the head of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: The measles outbreak has spread to at least 14 states, and it is growing. Health officials say a student at barred college in upstate New York has the disease and may that he have exposed other people to it because he took a train from here in New York City to Niagara Falls last weekend. And most people in the state have already been vaccinated. Most people get vaccinated when they are a child. Also, bard has set up a measles vaccination clinic just to be safe.
Our media correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, shows us just how quickly measles can spread and how it has not just contagious, but how it can be deadly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If someone has the measles, 90 percent of the people close to them will also get the measles if they have not been vaccinated.
You don't have to be in the same room as someone with measles to get it. If they were in the room an hour or two before you, it's lurking in the air, and you can get it. When someone gets measles, they first will fell a sore throat, a fever, a runny nose, they might get pink eye, and then the rash begins. The rash starts at the hairline and moves down from there. It's red. It's itchy.
Now, most people recover from measles and are they fine. But some people do get terrible complications. They can get pneumonia. They can have brain damage. And for every 1,000 people who get the measles, two or three of them will die.
The center for disease control recommends that children be vaccinated between 12 and 15 months and then get a second dose at four and six years old. So most of us have been vaccinated against measles, but there's a set of people who can't be vaccinated. Babies under the ages of one, they are not routinely vaccinated, and people who have immune issues. For example, people who have cancer, they can want get vaccinated either.
So all of us get vaccinated to protect them, and that's what's called herd immunity. So right now, the outbreak is centered on California and mostly western states. However, it could spread across the country because people travel. People might not even know that they have been infected with measles. They get on a plane, they come to another state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: All right, Elizabeth Cohen there. And let me bring in our guest, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He is the director of the national institutes of allergy and infectious diseases.
Thank you for joining us, doctor. What stands out to me and what is so troubling is that disease, measles, is so preventable. The vaccine is incredibly effective.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: That is correct. Of all the vaccines we have against any illness, any virus in micro, measles is one of the most effective. And as you mentioned on the piece, measles is also one of the most contagious viruses we have, and there are serious potential complications with it. And when you put all of those ingredients together, it's really unfortunate that we don't make completely universal use of the vaccine in those people who can take the vaccine. That's really very frustrating because this could be avoidable.
HARLOW: So Elizabeth Cohen talked about this, it's an important point, right, because we were talking so much about Ebola, we emphasize the fact that this is not airborne. You have to have this direct contacts with someone to catch it. Not the case with the measles.
FAUCI: No.
HARLOW: This can be airborne for hours, and you can still get it.
FAUCI: Right. It's the epitome of an airborne infection. So whenever you talk about airborne, some people confuse other diseases as being airborne. This is truly airborne. If someone sneezed or coughs, it gets in there and it can just float around, literally for up to two hours. So it's the interesting situation where you could go into a room after someone walks out of the room and coughed and sneezed, and you can get infected. Again, another reason why it's so important to be vaccinated.
HARLOW: So I wonder if you think there should be mandatory isolation for the people that are now known across 14 states, 84 people, to have measles because here's the thing. Children under 12 months cannot get the vaccine. So they still have to be out and about, at doctor checkups, et cetera, it makes them incredibly vulnerable.
FAUCI: Well, first of all, the recommendations are, certainly, if you have measles, you certainly need to be in a situation where you don't infect others where you could isolate. And if you have exposed or potentially exposed someone with documented measles, you should have a 21-day period where you don't expose to others. And you can make sure that you don't have measles. But certainly children with measles are quite contagious four days before they get the rash and four days after they get the rash.
HARLOW: Sixty-three percent of the people with measles right now and this outbreak are older than 20. Can adults get the vaccine and it works just as effectively?
FAUCI: Certainly. For example, if someone who is not been vaccinated, they can get vaccinated. And the recommendation, particularly if you're going to be in a situation where you might get exposed, it's a two-part vaccination. You get vaccinated one time, and then if you're an adult, you should get the second one no sooner than 25 days after the first.
As you mentioned correctly, when you are vaccinating your children, the first vaccination is 12 to 15 months of age followed by one, four to six years old. But people who are unvaccinated clearly are vulnerable, and that's why you see some adults that have either not been vaccinated or, in some individuals, the immunity wanes so that after several decades, you may get waning of immunity, which is the reason why you see some adults in that cohort of people who have been infected.
HARLOW: All right, Dr. Anthony, thank you for the expertise. We appreciate it.
FAUCI: You're quite welcome.
HARLOW: All right, quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: When the New England Patriots take the field for tomorrow's big game, the super bowl, their former star tight end, Aaron Hernandez seen here scoring the touchdown the last time the patriots were in the super bowl. He will not be able to even watch the game this year because he remains behind bars and he fighting for freedom right now in a Massachusetts courtroom. His murder trial is underway.
Hernandez and two alleged accomplices are charged with killing semi- pro football player Odon Lloyd back in 2013. This week, the prosecution and defense laid out their cases. They gave opening statements.
Let's talk about the trial that has captured the nation's attention. Joining me now is CNN anchor Don Lemon who has been covering it extensively, also HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson, and defense attorney Danny Cevallos.
Guys, thank you for being here. Let me go to you, Danny, first. The opening statements, who did a better job? Who made the better case?
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, these are totally different cases for each side. For the prosecution, they have a strong circumstantial case. The defense gave us a lot of information about the theory of the case in the openings.
First, when you have a difficult case, as on the defense, you fall back on some old tried and true tactics and they did just that. One of the ones I like that they used was the police in this case, they focused in. And once they focused in on the one defendant, they ignored all the other information and evidence and maybe a bad guy got away.
The other one that the defense focused on that I thought was effective or may ultimately not effective is the whole it does not make sense. Why would a guy who has everything going for him do something so dumb? It's almost a variation of the -- this was such a stupid crime, how -- who in the right mind would do something so dumb? Because anyone would agrees from a planning perspective, this was not a well executed crime.
HARLOW: So, to you, Joey, the defense got a real boom by two key things being thrown out that are not even admissible in court. One, a key message from the man who was murdered saying who he was with that night.
LEMON: Well, it just said NFL.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: Not just two pieces. And let's talk about that. A lot of information was thrown out, and I think rightfully so. And so, what the defense wanted is exclude that. And they got their wish because the prosecution did this saying. They said look, what was the motive here? Why do it? Because Odon Lloyd knew about these two murders he committed in 2012 and would have said something. But guess what, Poppy? The judge said that you are not to talk about the 2012 murders.
HARLOW: Alleged.
JACKSON: Right, alleged murders.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: And the reason being is because it's propensity evidence. Do you think the jury would give him a fair trial knowing that he may be involved in two other murders? So that was excluded. In addition to that, he is being sued by Alexander Bradley for allegedly shooting him in 2013 in February --
HARLOW: In the face, right?
JACKSON: In the face. The jury won't hear anything about that. What else? There was ammunition that was actually seized from this home, .45 caliber ammunition. That just happens to match the ammunition that was found at the scene excluded from evidence. And also a picture of him, Aaron Hernandez, with a gun .45 caliber from 2009 excluded as well.
So the defense did a great job.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: Yes. And right, just like the one he's carrying right after the crime in his home. So the defense did a great job of leveling the playing field here to make it a fair fight.
HARLOW: Don, what do you think? You've been watching some of this play out because it's all on television.
LEMON: I think it's amazing in the sense that when we -- we in the court of public opinion, right, the people at home and journalists, we see everything. So we think it is a see open, shut case, a slum dunk, the body was body near his home, you see the videotape, of course, that's a gun. He tried to scrub his, you know, the security system and the cops got it off the security system. To me, it's -- it's interesting sitting by as a bystander watching this if I'm in the courtroom and if you don't know all the things as you guys have been saying, then it's not as open and shut as you might think. And also, being inside the courtroom with the mom and then the two sisters who are on opposite sides, that's really -- I mean, in is a courtroom drama kind of unlike any other in recent industry.
HARLOW: For ten weeks.
JACKSON: On the jury, by seeing the parents, you know, the mom and her walking out based upon things she sees.
CEVALLOS: Now, the judge has to watch that because those are in the category of courtroom antics, that could potentially affect a jury. So the judge has to keep a close eye on that kind of behavior by family members.
HARLOW: Right, absolutely.
LEMON: Susan said, Susan Candiotti who is in the courtroom says the jury is reacting to that.
HARLOW: And tonight we have the special downward spiral on Aaron Hernandez at 11:00 p.m. tonight here on CNN.
Guy, thank you. Stick around. We have more to talk about this hour and throughout the evening.
Quick break, we are back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: All right, breaking news just into CNN. Very sorry to have to tell you about this as we welcome our viewers all around the world and here right in the United States.
The Islamic extremist group ISIS now claiming the Japanese man they were holding hostage is dead. And that they followed through on their promise to be head him. His name, Kenji Goto, he is 47 years old, a journalist. He and another Japanese man, a security contractor, were captured late last year by ISIS. ISIS apparently killed the other man Haruno Yukawa (ph) and had threatened to take the life of Kenji Goto, and apparently, they have.
The militants then changed their demands from money. They were asking for $200 million. And instead, they said they want a prisoner swap. Just a short time ago, ISIS did release a video clip that appears to show the violent death, beheading of Kenji Goto.
Let me go straight for our Will Ripley. He has been following the story from the beginning. He joins us live from Tokyo.
This is incredibly disturbing news. This is exactly what everyone, Will, was hoping would not happen. The wife of this man pleading, the Japanese government, the Jordanians working on a possible prisoner swap deal, and in the end, it did not happen. What can you tell us?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Yes, Poppy, this is Japan really waking up to devastating, although sadly not surprised news as we approach 6:00 a.m. here. People here have been afraid of this ever since the first ISIS video came out featuring Kenji Goto and Haruna Yukawa. Because when Japan did not pay that $200 million ransom and the deadline passed, the whole country collectively is bracing for a video like this.
So when Kenji Goto appeared alive holding the photo of Haruno Yukawa, it was, of course, devastating for the death of one Japanese citizen, but there was also a considerable amount of hope that because ISIS had decided to keep Kenji Goto alive, that perhaps it would not end like this, and now we see, sadly, it has.
HARLOW: And, Will, we are not showing our viewers this video. It is ISIS propaganda, and we're not going to show it. But I do wonder what you know, what you can glean from it in the early going as to why they decided now to ultimately give up on those negotiations, that it appears were going on with Jordan for this prisoner swap and ultimately behead Kenji Goto.
RIPLEY: Well, unlike so the other videos which strayed away from the typical ISIS propaganda style, we believe that the executioner in the video is the voice with a British accent that is so familiar to many, jihadi guy. And like other previous ISIS videos, it shows -- does not show the actual beheading itself. It cuts away as the knife approaches. It is hard to say those words, Poppy, but just because you think about Kenji Goto's wife.
His wife, Rinko, just a day ago, who finally broke her silence. I can only imagine how devastating this is for her and her family, Kenji Goto's mother, Junko Ishido, who's been spoken to reporters, has spoken to us so many times over this last week.
I think what makes this so stunning and shocking, Poppy, beyond the propaganda and beyond the fact that, you know, there's a whole discussion happening about ISIS and what needs to happen now. But people in Japan really feel like they knew Kenji Goto. He has so many friends in the journalism community and coverage for the past week has people have learned about him. They have learned about his trips to war zones, to report about the plight of women and children, and his compassion for people who were suffering and his fairness. And so people, you know, while initially were perhaps less sympathetic because these two men chose to go in dangerous territory, they have grown really to truly feel a connection with Kenji Goto and root for him as they heard from his mother and then heard wife. And -- God, it's just terrible.
HARLOW: I'm so glad that you bring that up. Because in is a man really renown journalist there who left Japan, could have reported anywhere else in the world, and he made the choice to go there to tell the stories of Syria refugees, of children, of innocent people suffering under this regime, suffering from the civil war that has been raging in that country. And he said, interestingly, Will, he was not concerned about safety going to Syria because he was Japanese. And according to a friend, he said, I'm not American, I'm not British. I'm Japanese, I can go. And look what happened to him.
Stay on the line with me, Will Ripley, live from Tokyo. Thank you for that.
Let's go straight to Jomana Karadsheh, our reporter in Amman who is also been tracking this.
Jomana, when you look at what the Jordanian government had been doing, unlike the United States, they were willing to discuss this prisoner swap for a female convicted terrorist, a woman named Sajida al- Rishawi, who is convicted of blowing up with her husband a number of hotels, taking some 60 lives just about six years ago. They were willing to -- it seemed, consider giving her back in exchange for the Jordanian pilot that ISIS is holding hostage and this Japanese citizen, Kenji Goto. Where did this fall apart?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what seems to have happened, Poppy, what we saw earlier this week, a few days ago with the last recording that came out, demanding that the Jordanian government produce Sajida al-Rishawi to the Syrian-Turkish border by sunset on Thursday. And of course, the Jordanian government at that point said that it was not going to do this. What they said was their priority has been their pilot, (INAUDIBLE). They said they need proof of life. Something they say that for weeks they have been getting. They have been asking for through these indirect negotiations, through indirect channels that they have been having to try and secure his release. And the Jordanian government said they did not receive that and insisted on the position.
And when asked about the fate of Kenji Goto, the risks that he was in, if Jordan did not provide Sajida al-Rishawi to ISIS, the response was, yes, Kenji Goto was part of the negotiations. But for the Jordanians, their priority has been their own citizens, the pilot. They would have come under a lot of pressure here in Jordan. A lot of criticism if they handed over this woman who many Jordanians see as part of what they described at the time as the 9/11 of Jordan. And they were willing to give that up.
A lot of Jordanians backed the government saying there they were happy to see her go as long as it meant their own captive, the Jordanian pilot would returned. And it would have been very difficult for the Jordanian government to explain it to their people if the Jordanian pilot had not returned. And of course, it's very important to mention at this point, there's absolutely no news about (INAUDIBLE) at this stage, Poppy.
HARLOW: Right. We do not know. We know that his fighter jet went down just a few months ago over Raqqa and he was taken hostage, those terrifying images of ISIS fighters. But we have not heard of his fate at this point in time. I believe we have Peter Bergen, national security analyst on the line
as well.
Jomana, thank you for that and standby.
Peter Bergen, to you. What does this tell you? I mean, ISIS was asked repeatedly for proof of life of the Jordanian pilot in order to get their -- to get al-Rishawi, the convicted terrorist back. They refused to give it. And now, they have executed Japanese journalist Kenji Goto.
PETER BERGEN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST (via phone): Well, I mean, the lack of proof of life is disturbing on the Jordanian pilot because how can you have a negotiation on this issue without proof of life?
And you know, every time ISIS has produced one of these hostage videos with the hostage alive, we've found unfortunately except in one case, which is the British journalist, that they've eventually been executed. So it seems that their willingness to negotiate is really very, very limited.
And, you know, we saw that at the beginning of this, Poppy, with the demand for $200 million. That's just a completely unreasonable demand that was never going to happen. I mean, when we've seen hostage exchange, we've seen numbers in the sort of low several million dollars at most. So no government was ever going to kind of agree to that.
So it raises a big question, Poppy. I think we still have an American female who a 26-year-old aid worker who has been held by ISIS. We still have a British hostage held by ISIS. And there may well be others. And what is their fate?
The only I think good thing that has come out of this and it's difficult to say good thing. There is one thing that has come out of this that is new, Poppy, which is that we have -- seem to have a way to speak to ISIS that we didn't have before. We have been, you know, there was an American journalist called Theo Curtis who was being held by Al-Qaeda in Syria. He is now free. He is back in the United States. And there was basically it was the Qatari government that facilitated his release.
So there may be some way in to speak to ISIS. And of course, they haven't been shown to be rational negotiators in it too. But at least we now have some kind of form of communication with them that we didn't have in the past.
HARLOW: So, on that point, Peter Bergen, thank you. Stay with us.
Chris Voss, to you now, a former FBI hostage negotiator.
These lines of communication were open. There was some hope. But without that proof of life, did ISIS simply give up and say we're going to yet again do something as brutal, as gruesome, as barbaric as this just to show them meet our demands immediately or else? CHRIS VOSS, FORMER FBI HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, first of all, I
think the lines of communication have always been there behind the scenes and whether or not the rational is really a matter of definition. I'm not sure that they gave up here whether they're not trying to cover up they didn't have the ability to comply with the negotiations. So to me it's a little bit more of a temper tantrum based on people of an inability to negotiate as opposed to being irrational or not being able to --
HARLOW: So that is a good point. Because of the question a lot of us have been asking here and talking about can ISIS even be trusted to negotiate with?
VOSS: I think they can. I think they're eminently predictable. And you know, it's been my business in hostage negotiators business for a long period of time. The reason we engage in these communications is to understand what they look like when they're telling the truth, what they look like when they're lying. Everybody has a set of rules. And once you learn how to navigate the other side's rules, that's how you beat them at their game. Instead of trying to get them to navigate within your rules. That's the first step for dealing with is. I think Jordan did a good job here, actually.
HARLOW: Bob Baer, to you, what is your take on this? It was just last weekend we were discussing this. There was hope that some deal would be reached so that Kenji Goto could be released. To you, Bob Baer.
ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The negotiators that I have talked to that have worked for the Islamic state before described them as unpredictable in the sense that they can be very reasonable for long periods of time and sound calm. And for no apparent reason they'll just flip out. And they'll do what we would consider things that are psychotic and not in their interests.
You have to keep in mind that their execution of these hostages over the last year or so has alienated them so much from the west that it's costing this many lives. I mean, I don't think we would be as engaged in Iraq and Syria if it weren't for these executions. So at the end of the day, they may think they're rational, but in fact they're not. They are just bringing down this movement much more quickly.
HARLOW: To you, Tom Fuentes, what do you think this does, if anything, in terms of changing the game in this what has become a protracted battle against ISIS and the best way to fight and defeat is? Because now it is all too common that we are having to bring this news that yet another hostage, whether it is an American, a British citizen, now a Japanese citizen, being beheaded by ISIS.
THOMAS FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, we have to look at what is their real goal in the whole situation, Poppy, from the time that they had the Japanese hostages as well as the Jordanian pilot. And what I mean by that is, when they put the demand out for $200 million, that wasn't a serious demand. But what they've gotten and I think did meet their goal completely was they've got the whole world to become very sympathetic to the Japanese hostages, particularly the last one, Kenji Goto.
The whole nation of Japan to learn to revere this man and root for him and hope for him. So they commanded the world stage, the worldwide media all this time. And when they got tired of it they killed him. And they got what they wanted. They got nonstop attention and coverage. So we think it was irrational. But on the other hand from their point of view possibly very rational.
HARLOW: Tom Fuentes, stand by. I want to go to Erin McPike, our White House correspondent in Washington, D.C.
And as I go to Erin, let me read this statement that we just got from NSE spokesperson Bernadette Nilan saying "we have seen the video purporting to show that Japanese citizen Kenji Goto has been murdered by the terrorist group ISIL. We are working to confirm its authenticity. The United States strongly condemn ISIL's action and we call the immediate release of all remaining hostages. We stand in solidarity with our ally Japan."
Erin, I know it is early going here, but are we hearing anything else out of Washington?
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, I would point out the national Security Council put out a very similar statement last weekend. And obviously, this is news to the White House as well.
What I would say is because this video is somewhat different than some the videos we've seen in the past, you can be sure that intelligence officials and other defense department officials as well will be really looking for what kind of clues they can glean from this.
We've been talking for the past couple of months about how the defense department is saying they're having a lot of success with some of the airstrikes and fight against ISIS happening in Iraq and Syria. Obviously, it hasn't stopped these executions, but maybe with this new video they can get a little bit more from those details.
I'd also point out in the last week, President Obama has spoken with the prime minister of Japan, and obviously they are going to be working closely with the Japanese in building a bigger coalition here to see what more they can do to stop these executions and stop ISIS from some of these actions.
HARLOW: Absolutely. Erin McPike, stand by for us in Washington.
I want to get back to Jomana Karadsheh who is with us in Amman. Before I do, I want our viewers, and Jomana listen to this. This is the wife of hostage who has just been beheaded, Japanese citizen Kenji Goto, speaking out just yesterday. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RINKO GOTO, KENJI GOTO'S WIFE: My husband and I have very young daughters. Our baby girl was only three weeks old when Kenji left. I hope our oldest daughter, who is just two, will get to see their father again. I want them both to grow up knowing their father. My husband is a good and honest man who went to Syria to show the
plight of those who suffer. I believe that Kenji may have been also trying to find out about Haruna Yukawa's situation. I was extremely saddened by the death of Haruna and my thoughts go out to his family. I know all too well what they are going through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
That was the wife of Kenji Goto just yesterday.
Let me go to Jomana Karadsheh. She joins us now in Amman, Jordan -- Jomana.
KARADSHEH: Poppy, there are lots of questions here about that demand for the release that ISIS had put out for the release of Sajida al- Rishawi. And many people have been asking whether that demand was real by ISIS. They were questioning how genuine that was, whether it was more to try an embarrass the Jordanian government and put pressure on this government that is seen as one of the greatest enemies of ISIS in this part of the world. And it really is here locally of course, there was a lot of pressure on the government, there was a lot of concern that if Sajida al-Rishawi was not released, if Jordan did not comply with that and the Jordanian pilot had been executed, that there will some sort of trouble in this country because of the tribe that the Jordanian pilot came from and the pressure the government was under to do this.
But also because of its relations internationally with Japan, for example, putting Jordan in that very, very tough situation over the past 10 days or so because Japan did set up a crisis center here in Jordan when that $200 million demand first came out by ISIS for the two hostages.
Japan sent its highest level delegation here with the deputy foreign minister. They set up a crisis center. They were trying to juice Jordan as a regional headquarters to try to coordinate whatever efforts there were to secure the release and negotiate. And it does seem, this is a feeling here, that one of the things that ISIS was trying to do possibly here is to embarrass Jordan by asking for something that the country could not really deliver. And really sabotage its relations with Japan and other countries internationally.
HARLOW: Jomana, thank you very much for your reporting on this tonight and throughout. Standby. We are going to continue to cover this here on CNN, the tragic breaking news. Let me reset this all for our viewers.
Breaking news here on CNN.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
