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ISIS Beheads Kenji Goto; Bobbi Kristina Brown Found Unresponsive in Bathtub

Aired January 31, 2015 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you from New York.

We have breaking news from overseas. It is not the news that anyone hoped to hear about a hostage being kept, held, threatened by ISIS militants in Syria. That extremist group has now apparently beheaded Kenji Goto. He was a journalist, a 47-year-old journalist from Japan, captured in Syria in October, first held for ransom. ISIS demanding $200 million, then offered in potential exchange for a prisoner being held by Jordan, a convicted terrorist there. None of those deals came through.

ISIS today, just releasing a short video that appears to show the brutal beheading, the murder of this 47-year-old husband and father from Japan. Let's go straight to Jomana Karadsheh. She is in Amman, Jordan.

Jomana, we were waiting as these deadlines passed waiting to hear the fate and hoping that the Jordanian government and ISIS head had been able to strike a deal for the release. Do we know where things fell apart?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, it did look like late last week, late week on Wednesday that there would be a deal, that there was hope at that point that the Jordanian government said that it was willing to release Sajida al-Rishawi that convicted would- be suicide bomber that ISIS had been asking for.

But on Thursday, the Jordanian government said that that deal was off the table. Just a short time before the final deadline came out from ISIS saying Sajida al-Rishawi had to be delivered to the Syrian- Turkish border by sunset that they or they threatened to kill both Kenji Goto and the Jordanian pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh.

Now, the Jordanian said that they are willing to do this. They are willing to release here, but that deal was off the table unless they got proof of life. They had evidence that their pilot was still well and alive. They say that for some time now, they have demanding through their negotiations, these indirect negotiations, through indirect channels with ISIS to try and secure the release of this pilot who was captured back in December when on a mission as part of the anti-ISIS coalition and his jet crashed in ISIS territory in Syria. But they say they had no sign that he was alive. And the Jordanian government had been under pressure here domestically that yes, they were trying to help the Japanese government with their own negotiations but many here in Jordan were putting the government under pressure to bring Moaz al-Kasasbeh back. And that is something we heard from the Jordanian government say, yes, Kenji Goto had been part of these negotiations, that the Jordanian government was having. But that their main priority and their top priority was their own citizen. And there was absolutely no mention, Poppy, of that Jordanian citizen Moaz al-Kasasbeh in this latest ISIS video, something that is really concerning and adding to the anxiety and uncertainty right now about his fate.

HARLOW: And Jomana, I know it is the middle of the night, 3:00 a.m. where you are in Amman, Jordan. Any reaction from the Jordan government, king Abdullah, anyone there?

KARADSHEH: You know what, Poppy, for his past, this past last ten days, the government hasn't said much. They have been very tight- lipped pretty much since the capture of Moaz al-Kasasbeh. They've really tried to, you know, keep it very quiet, whatever they were trying to do, they said it's a very sensitive situation, that they don't want to talk about much. But they've been under pressure recently to try and tell people more about what's going on with the negotiations.

But so far this evening, there's been no reaction. As you mentioned t is late at night here, nothing from the Jordanian government or the Jordanian military about this situation. But we heard from the family of the Jordanian pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh, one of his uncles telling CNN this evening that they are devastated and very saddened by the news of this apparent execution of Kenji Goto and they say that it makes them more concerned and worried about the fate of their own son, Moaz al- Kasasbeh.

HARLOW: Jomana, thank you very much for that.

Let me get straight to our panel of experts as well to talk about this former CIA operative and CNN security and intelligence analyst, Bob Baer. Joins me also former FBI lead international kidnapping negotiator, Chris Voss, also former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes.

Bob Baer to you. Japan has taken a defensive, a passive stance in terms of their geopolitically, right? They have for years and years not been the aggressors, if you will. However, there are discussions that Shinzo Abe is reporting that support article 49 of their constitution to put Japan more on the offensive. Do you believe, given what has happened now, two Japanese hostages brutally murdered by ISIS, does this change the game for Japan? Do they get more into this fight against is?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Poppy, they weren't very deep into it. They were going to give $200 million to restore the country of Iraq. They weren't about to send troops to Iraq, nor are we for the moment. They probably feel pretty badly burned in this. The Japanese, frankly, don't understand the Middle East. They have no history there. They don't have an army that's capable of doing anything, and I think this is going to pretty well do it for them, at least for the time being, unless this conflict turns around. I think this all came as a big surprise to them.

HARLOW: Chris Voss, part of the statement by ISIS in this video is a direct message of blame on Prime Minister Abe and also a threat saying this will be a nightmare for Japan. How do you read that?

CHRIS VOSS, FBI LEAD INTERNATIONAL KIDNAPPING NEGOTIATOR: Well, both of these things are actually very predictable things for them to be saying when they don't have any more cards to play right now against the Japanese. If they had another Japanese hostage to threaten to murder, then they would have put that person up in another video. Since they don't have that, they kind of stamped their feet a little bit and make this very vague, innocuous threat so that threat is pretty predictable and it actually indicates that they don't have much else to do in regards to Japan.

HARLOW: Tom Fuentes, do you agree?

THOMAS FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I agree. And the cautionary tale here for every country in the world is, even if you have no control over one of your citizens, deciding to go there as a journalist or an aide worker or for whatever reason, and that person gets captured, suddenly you become the headline worldwide, what are you going to do about it? The pressure is on you. How can you let this happen? How can you -- you've got to negotiate, get our person back, and that's -- I think Japan kind of has been like deer in the headlights over this whole thing. They didn't expect this to happen. They're not fighting over there. They announced humanitarian aid. Suddenly two of their citizens prominently are being held on the world stage as hostages.

HARLOW: Gentlemen, thank you. I appreciate the perspective. Now I want to bring our viewers sound recently in to CNN from Japan's prime minister, Shinzo Abe. He spoke in front of a lot of television cameras there in Japan just a short time ago with a message for the ISIS militants whom he calls terrorists. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHINZO ABE, JAPAN'S PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I feel very sorry for this matter and to the families. The government has tried its best to deal with this matter, but we are deeply saddened by this despicable and horrendous act of terrorism, and we denounce it on the strongest terms. To the terrorists we will never, never forgive them for this act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's go straight to Tokyo. Our Will Ripley is live for us there.

First of all, those remarks from the Japanese Prime Minister Abe, the entire country is in shocked. They are completely saddened. Can we talk about the man that they lost? I mean, tell us a little bit about how important her is to the people there?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a man, Poppy, who people have really come to know and love as he has been now in people's homes on every major channel here since this whole crisis unfolded more than a week ago.

Kenji Goto, 47-years-old, married, a father of two, just had a new daughter, a newborn daughter who is just three weeks old when he took his latest and now last trip to the Middle East, to Syria, a place that he was very familiar with, a passionate freelance reporter who went to war zones not to cover the politics, not looking for dramatic video, not trying to exploit, but to convey the situation for women and children especially, who were caught up in this.

He cared about people. And that heart is part of the reason why he went back to Syria to search for his friend, Haruna Yukawa, a man who he met, a man who clearly didn't have a lot of experience in war zones but was trying to start a security company, someone he had given advice to, and then someone who ignored some of that advice and was captured by ISIS.

Kenji Goto thought that given his years of experience in situations like this, that he might be able to help and now Japan sits here with two of its citizens have fallen victim now to just a murderous terror group and this could be a real game changer for how the Japanese people view this conflict, which really up until now is quite far removed -- Poppy.

HARLOW: I did want to ask you that, Will, do you get any sense early on that this will change Japan's stance on the global stage militarily, especially in this fight against ISIS?

RIPLEY: Well, certainly you know by Prime Minister Abe publicly announcing support for the coalition against ISIS in the form of humanitarian aid, this was something the prime minister has been planning to do for a while, to put Japan geopolitically even though Japan is a passivist country with a constitution that forbids the military from engaging in military action aside from its own self- defense, Abe wants Japan to be a player, and to take a stand against issues like terrorism.

And -- but he's facing some criticism here for the way that he went about it, for so publicly announcing this $200 million to support the coalition against ISIS, knowing that there were two Japanese hostages in the hands of the terror group. Some are asking was this well thought out? Did the Japanese government realize that this could happen to its citizens?

So there are going to be some tough questions asked here in the coming days and weeks, certainly by Abe's opponents. But the people of Japan, they're proud of Kenji Goto and the fact that he showed so much courage and dignity up until the very end, even at the hands of this brutal terror group, he never flinched. He never begged. He quietly, with dignity, accepted his fate, and I think that's how people are going to choose to remember him, for the way he lived, the courage and compassion and not how his life ended.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Will Ripley in Tokyo, thank you for that.

We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We're continuing to follow the breaking news. ISIS posting a video online purporting to show the beheading of a second Japanese hostage, journalist Kenji Goto.

The gruesome video shows a masked man speaking with a British accent addressing directly Japan's prime minister. This comes as the U.S. and its coalition allies have launched another series of attacks against ISIS.

Twenty-seven airstrikes have been conducted against ISIS troops in Iraq and Syria in just the past two days. But this also comes as ISIS militants launched a new offensive on the oil rich city of Kirkuk, Iraq.

Now some are still wondering if the U.S. would have more to offer than airstrikes if the coalition wants to defeat ISIS. Do we need more forces there? During an exclusive interview with CNN before this latest video of course was released, defense secretary Chuck Hagel said the option is still on the table.

Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I asked Secretary Hagel if he thought it was possible a small number of U.S. troops might get sent to the front lines in Iraq to help Iraqi combat troops do things like picking out targets. He made clear it's an idea that cannot yet be ruled out.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: He said to his combatant commanders, specifically General Dempsey and General Austin, if you believe and you want to recommend, you think you need to recommend to me, to the president that we should look at other options, then I want to you bring those recommendations to me. That so far has not happened.

Whether that would happen in the future, again, the president has said to his commanders, if you think this is what's going to be required, I need to know it. You need to make the recommendation, and I'll listen.

STARR: What do you think?

HAGEL: Well, I think just as the president has said and the advice I've given the president, what General Dempsey has, is that we have to look at all the options. And I think it may require a forward deployment of some of our troops, not doing the fighting, not doing the combat work we did at one time for six years in Iraq and we did for many, many years in Afghanistan, but to help air strike precision.

STARR: Moving targets, intelligence.

HAGEL: Those are things where we would continue to support. What I would say though we're not there yet. Whether we get there or not, I don't know. Whether that's something that our military commanders would recommend into the future, I don't know. But I think just as the president has made clear, I need to know your honest opinion and he's been very forthright about that what you think, if that's something that you think is required.

STARR: But you're saying you think it could be necessary.

HAGEL: It could be, but I'm not willing to say that it will be necessary. I say it could be necessary.

STARR: Hagel leaves office in a few days, but his view is one that is shared by some current military commanders.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: An excellent interview there by our Barbara Starr. You can see much more of it on CNN.com.

CNN did reach out to the White House for comment. They told us they have no policy changes to announce after what Secretary Hagel did tell Barbara.

Will it take American troops back in Iraq to defeat ISIS and what do you do in Syria? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, before the break, we heard outgoing defense secretary Chuck Hagel in an exclusive interview with CNN saying the U.S. may eventually need to send ground troops back into Iraq to help turn back ISIS fighters.

Let's bring in Michael Weiss, he writes for foreign policy, also the new book out, "ISIS inside the army of terror." Also joining us again former CIA operative Bob Baer.

Bob, before the break we heard Barbara's interview with Chuck Hagel saying, well, we're not there yet but we may have to go there. What do you make of what he said and the White House saying, by the way, no policy changes at this point.

BAER: Poppy, you know, first of all, we do have some limited amount of troops in for instance Iraq.

HARLOW: Right.

BAER: Joint special operations command are crossing the border into Syria. We do have helicopters on the ground. We got rescue teams. And what I'm hearing from them is this air campaign from 50,000, 60,000 feet or whatever the planes are flying isn't going to do it. We cannot strategically bomb Islamic state in to, you know, destroy it. We actually do need some support on the ground. We need to get military equipment to instance for the Kurds, they're running out of ammunition. The government in Baghdad isn't working. They've been sending in, you know, death squads into the Sunni areas. That's not helping at all.

We really do have to change here. It's not working, and I don't see the Islamic state disappearing, especially with these attacks on Kirkuk. And the Kurds have said also that they are not going to participate in an offensive on Mosul. So how are we going to take Mosul back? Something's got to change.

HARLOW: Michael, do you think that that something has to be U.S. boots on the ground. And if that's the case, do the American public have the stomach for that, the appetite for that again?

MICHAEL WEISS, AUTHOR, ISIS INSIDE THE ARMY OF TERROR: For the book we interviewed at least a dozen former and active U.S. military officials, including military intelligence officials whose job it was to anatomize and track ISIS' predecessor Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Not a single one of them thinks that the Iraqi security forces can do this especially as Bob rightly pointed out because the vanguard fighting force on the ground in Iraq is really not the Iraqi military or interior ministry professional soldiers. It's Shia militia groups.

Death squads that are essentially beholden to the Islamic republic of Iran. The guy who is leading the ground campaign in Iraq today is the man called Kasim Sulimani (ph). He is a major revolutionary guard called Quds (ph) force which happens to be a U.S. doesn't made the terrorist organization. He was responsible for killing so many American soldiers during the Iraq war.

Today U.S. war planes are essentially giving him and his militias, occasionally embedded with Iraqi air forces indirect their support. If you're Sunni in Iraq, why are you going to rise up against ISIS on behalf of Tehran which is how they see it.

Remember the so-called Anbar awakening in the mid 2000s? The reason that happened was the Sunni tribes of Iraq which was the geostrategic heartland where Al-Qaeda in Iraq had embedded itself, (INAUDIBLE) Al- Anbar province, they basically cut a deal. They said we prefer the Americans because they don't come in and kill us after they boot out the terrorists.

Well now, who is in lieu of the Americans? Again, you have untrustworthy, frankly non-credible Iraqi forces. The current Iraqi minister for reconciliation, Ayad Allawi (ph), himself a Shia, formerly the interim prime minister, has told "the Guardian" newspaper we have ethnically cleansed Baghdad of Sunnis. Do you know how dire state of affairs that is especially if you are Sunni?

So yes, I don't see this humpy dumpy getting put back together again without U.S. troops on the ground.

HARLOW: But Bob Baer, long-term, is the effort worth it, more U.S. boots on the ground, can we eliminate ISIS effectively or is it time to really weigh whether we should be fighting them in this way that you say and not working? BAER: Well, I'm going to go back to what Michael just said. As you

know, he's right on every single point. We simply cannot take sides with Iran and Iraq and expect to vanquish the Sunni. Yes, we can decapitate that organization, but something is going to take its place. We have to' reassess what we're doing in this part of the world. We cannot get in the middle of a civil war and take sides and expect to win. This war has been going on since the seventh century. It's just not working.

HARLOW: Bob Baer, thank you very much. Michael Weiss, quick break. We're back with our breaking news on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back. I'm poppy Harlow in New York.

Joining us now as well our international viewers on CNN international and here in the United States as well as we continue to follow this breaking news at this hour.

For days, ISIS said it wanted to negotiate for his release, but a video released just a short time ago shows the apparent death, the murder of a Japanese hostage named Kenji Goto. The familiar English speaking ISIS member who has become known as jihadi John appears in the video standing behind Japanese journalist Kenji Goto. He then lectures the Japanese government, placing the blame squarely on them before beheading Goto.

We have our international correspondents Jomana Karadsheh joining us in Amman, also Will Ripley is joining us in Tokyo.

Will, let me begin with you. It is early morning there. What is the reaction thus far from the Japanese government and frankly, the peep of Japan to this horrific act?

RIPLEY: We're expecting just minutes from now a press conference with Japan's defense minister, Gen Nakatani. We don't know yet if Japan is ready to say that they believe this video is authentic. Although, already today we have heard from the chief cabinet secretary and Japan's prime minister Shinzo Abe reacting strongly to this, condemning the action, the apparent actions of ISIS in the murder of yet another Japanese citizen, the second Japanese citizen to apparently be beheaded by the terrorist group in about a week, the first being Haruna Yukawa and now, Kenji Goto.

And so, it seems as if it is only a matter of time before Japan acknowledges what is feared and believe to be the case that yet, another citizen has fallen to ISIS, Poppy. And the response is that Japan will continue to push forward with its support for the coalition against ISIS continue to pledge and financially, humanitarian aid for the victims of this terrorist group.

HARLOW: And it's important to note who this was, right? And important to remember this man not for the fact that he was brutally murdered by ISIS, but for the fact that he went to Syria, left his family, his two young daughters because he felt so strongly that he needed to be in Syria to tell the stories of the refugees there, of the crisis that was unfolding there. What does he mean to the people of Japan?

RIPLEY: And Poppy, he wasn't self-serving in going there. He didn't put himself on camera. He wasn't the story. The story was the people and the plight of those people, the innocent people who were suffering. And that is exactly how people in Japan will choose to remember him for his courage and for his dignity.

47-year-old married father of two, two young daughters, a mother who has been just like all of us, kind of going through a real emotional roller coaster, where there were thoughts that perhaps he might be able to be released. And then as we watched the deal fall apart, the hope turned to real fear that this was only a matter of time before something like this would happen.

HARLOW: Will, stay with us.

To you, Jomana, this brings in to stark focus the fate of the Jordanian pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh, who was -- his plane went down over Raqqa a few months ago. Those images of the ISIS fighters carrying him away celebrating the fact they had a Jordanian hostage. His fate was tied up in this as well because he was part of a negotiation for a potential release. Yes ISIS doesn't mention him at all in this video. Does that surprise you?

KARADSHEH: Not really, Poppy. There has been not much talk of Moaz al-Kasasbeh since his capture. We do not know what ISIS has actually been demanding if they made any demands really for his release.

What we do know is that his name came up in the past week when is added him to the equation to this crisis and situation with Kenji Goto saying unless that swap or the convicted would-be suicide bomber, the Iraqi woman Sajida al-Rishawi happened, they said that they would also kill Moaz al-Kasasbeh. But at no point, Poppy, have they come on and said what their demands are for his release even it that was on the table.

We do know that the Jordanian government has been in direct negotiation to try and secure his release for the last few weeks. But the critical issue for the Jordanian government, and as we heard it, they said that possible deal for a swap was off the table because they had not received any evidence that al-Kassasbeh was alive or safe and well. And this has been a major issue, a major concern for many Jordanians here his families who also say that in the past 40 days since his capture, they, too, have not received any proof of life either.

So again, this evening when we see this purported video by ISIS with no mention of al Kassasbeh, it just adds to the sense of uncertainty and anxiety that is really been running high in this country over the past ten days or so.

HARLOW: I wonder, Jomana, how the people, the general consensus there among the civilians in Jordan is about the potential for the Jordanian government to release this convicted terrorist, this woman, Sajida al- Rishawi, convicted with her husband of bombing several hotels there, killing upwards of 60 people. How do they feel about the government putting it on the table to release her as ISIS has demanded in exchange for the pilot?

KARADSHEH: Well we were actually out a few hours ago talking to people on the streets here in Amman about how they felt about this, just a reminder here to our viewers, those attacks, that bombing was the worst terror attack in recent memory for Jordanians, the November 9th hotel bombings, triple bombings that struck three hotels here in Amman, and Sajida al-Rishawi, that woman hurt, suicide vest did not detonate in the attack.

For many they describe it as the 9/11 of Jordan and she is the only convicted participant in that attack who is behind bars. So it is a big issue for Jordanians. They want to see her in jail. She's on death row and the only thing that has kept her alive so far poppy is that unofficial moratorium on the death penalty that Jordan has had since 2006, only resuming executions back in December.

But when we talked to people today, they said if her release or the release of any other ISIS related prisoner for that matter means the return of their pilot, they want to see that. There are, of course, concerns about Jordan setting a precedent there, that there will be more dangers to Jordanian citizens after that and Jordanian military, but at the same time all they want to see is the return of a man that many here describe as a national hero.

HARLOW: Jomana, thank you very much. Will Ripley in Tokyo, thank you as well.

When we come back, while Japan mourns the death of Kenji Goto, there are still fears for British hostage John Cantley. Why is ISIS keeping him alive and using him in all of these propaganda videos? Could he share Goto's fate? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Breaking news here in to CNN, we do have a statement from the president of the United States now on the death, brutal murder of Kenji Goto. Let me read it to you in full.

"The United States condemns the heinous murder of Japanese citizen and journalist Kenji Goto by the terrorist group ISIL. Through his reporting Mr. Goto courageously sought to convey the plight of the Syrian people to the outside world. Our thoughts are with Mr. Goto's family and loved ones and we stand in solidarity with Prime Minister Abe and the Japanese people in denouncing this barbaric act.

We applaud Japan's steadfast commitment to advancing peace and prosperity in the Middle East and globally, including its generous assistance for innocent people affected nu the region. Standing together with a broad coalition of allies and partners, the United States will continue taking decisive action to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL."

Also, just in to CNN a statement from U.S. secretary of state John Kerry. It reads in part, "United States condemns ISIL's vicious murder of Japanese journalist Kenji Goto. We extend our sincere and heartfelt condolences to his wife, his family, his loved ones as well as to the people of Japan."

He goes on to say "the United States knows this pain on a personal level, borne of our own experience."

Let's talk now about what has happened and what may happen ahead of Japan's leader vowing to never forgive the ISIS terrorists. Does this recent breakdown in negotiations with ISIS reveal any significant strategies, any changes amongst ISIS and also for hostages held by ISIS. Among those hostage, a Jordanian pilot, also an unnamed female American aid worker a 26-years-old and British journalist John Cantley.

Let me bring back in our panel foreign policy columnist Michael Weiss, former CIA operative Bob Baer, former FBI Chris Voss and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes.

Chris, to you if first, ISIS clearly showing no mercy, killing both of these Japanese hostages, one week apart, but there is a hostage that they have held for a long time that really ISIS chooses to put out there, to put front and center and talking about British journalist John Cantley. He has been the center of now eight propaganda videos by is. They have him acting as a reporter in the field talking about how great life is under is rule. Why do you think ISIS is keeping him alive?

VOSS: Well I think that they're getting good mileage. They like the reaction they're getting by using him. They're holding him in advance for whatever moves that they might like to make and the fact that they're putting him out here like this tells us a lot about the current situation. Often the absence of information tells you a lot.

They're not doing this with the Jordanian pilot. Also, there was proof of life on Kenji Goto to go to his family. And recently to Goto's family, and no proof of life recently on the Jordanian pilot to his family. I think that, combined with the way they're using the British hostage tells us that most likely the Jordanian pilot is not around to be used in the same way. They like what they're getting with the British hostage, and they don't have the availability to do that with the Jordanian pilot.

HARLOW: Do you believe Bob Baer, that that is the case or do you believe that there is the chance that the Jordanian pilot is unwilling to do that, or does they think John Cantley as a western voice is more powerful in that propaganda?

BAER: Well, Poppy, look at these tapes that Cantley's been putting out. And he is collecting the tourist minister inviting people to the Bahamas or something which is total insanity, but they're appealing to a very marginal set of people in the west and the rest of the Arab world who might fall for this, but at the end of the day, they're murdering these Japanese hostages, there's no political -- forget the emotional, the personal, there's no political mileage to be gotten from this. This is an irredeemable movement in the full sense of the word, and I

tried to think of our enemies in ways to get to them but these people you can't. And the locals, the Arabs will tell you they just have to be destroyed militarily and be there's no negotiation. There's no reasoning, and I believe it.

HARLOW: I wonder to you, Michael Weiss, can you truly fully destroy them, when it is not just about physically, but it's destroying the ideology. And when they put these videos out, it is just insane to watch how they're using John Cantley as like bob said, a tourist, you know, recruiting people, come, live under the ISIS regime. It is wonderful, it is not what you think it is, but he's speaking English and what they want is more recruits in the western world to carry out attacks in the west and to join them on the battlefield there. Can you take them out, even just militarily?

WEISS: Not given the current constraints of the strategy.

Look, one of the bull warts of is propaganda we interviewed several ISIS members for the book and they said we prefer to be heard from, not about. So one of the sort of main campaigns is the western media lies about what really is happening under ISIS rule, right?

So Cantley is a perfect sort of prop in this campaign. Because here's a perfectly British speaking, British citizen, perfectly English speaking journalist who is invoking the sort of the cultural grammar of the west, you know, denouncing his government, denouncing the United States government, referring to sort of the various perceived and real foreign policy crimes committed by the U.S. and great Britain.

They want to appeal directly to an audience that thinks there is a vast conspiracy that the United States is a party to. By the way, and this bears reemphasizing and mentioning at every possible point. We think of ISIS and we have this misapprehension, these are a bunch of jihadist, everybody is talking about the foreign fighters. 14-year- old boys from Tunisia, Algeria coming off to do holy war. Not true.

The upper echelons of this organization are completely filled with former Saddam Hussein regime members, where (INAUDIBLE) agents, military intelligence officials, Iraqi army guys. Guess who these guys were trained by the soviets, the KGB trained them in conventional warfare and guerrilla warfare and information warfare. They know how to do propaganda. They know how to exploit the weaknesses in the west and what they're trying to do indeed with the Jordanian hostage in particular, drive a wedge between the United States and this already tenuous coalition.

HARLOW: And Tom Fuentes, to you, we see the United States fighting its own war online against this, right? We see the state department and others using social media to say this is not the route you want to follow, trying to talk to people that would be radicalized by this. Is the U.S. fighting this effectively online, on the propaganda front?

FUENTES: No. Frankly I don't think so. You know, on the other side of this is, ISIS will win the propaganda

front as long as they appear, if they're not winning and gaining ground and they don't take over Baghdad, but on the other hand don't lose too much ground and stay in a solid position in control of a great part of Iraq and Syria, then they're winning just by that. And you know, where our officials come off saying we're on the pathway to destroy ISIL and degrade ISIL. By what? Are we hoping they commit suicide, because at the moment I don't think we're on much of a path to accomplish that.

HARLOW: So we have to go, but quickly, what do we do? What do we do, Tom?

FUENTES: Well, I think we're going to have to get really serious about who we have on the ground and if we can get the neighbors to join in the coalition or what, or else just give up, get out.

I mean, we spent 5,000 American lives in Iraq, a trillion dollars. We have 50,000 wounded warriors with commercials on every hour about the people that were wounded there. And now, suddenly we've lost a third of the country that we had already controlled. You know, I don't see how we get by even wondering how that happened to us.

HARLOW: It's astonishing.

Gentlemen, thank you all. We appreciate it. We'll have you back on later in the program. We have other breaking news to get to after a quick break.

The daughter of late singer Whitney Houston found unresponsive this morning in a bathtub at her home. What happened, how is she doing? An update next.

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HARLOW: We're covering breaking news here in the United States this hour.

The daughter of late singer Whitney Houston this morning found unresponsive in a bathtub full of water, a disturbing echo of her mother's tragic death three years ago. Brown was not breathing when her husband and a friend found her this morning in her Atlanta home. Her mother, Whitney Houston, died in a bathtub at the Beverley Hilton back in February 2012.

Let's go straight to Nick Valencia. He is covering this story outside of the hospital near Atlanta where Houston's daughter is being treated.

Do we know, Nick, the latest on her condition, how she's doing?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, the hospital is being very tight lipped about her condition because of Hipa privacy laws. They can't really say much.

But here is what we know from police that she is alive and breathing. Whether or not she's breathing on her own or with the help of a respirator, that's not clear. What we do know is that she was found about 10:30 this morning in her resident in Roswell, about 45 minutes outside of Atlanta by her husband who told police that he found Bobbi Kristina Brown, the 21-year-old, face down in a bathtub.

Now, it is very unfortunate to say, but there has been a lot of speculation and rumors surrounding Bobbi Kristina Brown and her dependants on drugs and alcohol. So it was worth asking police if there were signs of that foul play. They said in an initial sweep of that residents, Poppy, that there was no indication that there was alcohol or drug abuse in the facility in that home. But they did say that they are conducting search warrants right now. As recently as an hour ago they were still on the scene. But police say they are treating this as a medical situation at this point -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Nick, I know that she was unresponsive and was not breathing on her own when she was found. Do we have a sense from the hospital though whether or not she is on a ventilator or not, or any update other than that on her condition?

VALENCIA: We did. We attempted to go into the hospital when we got here a couple of hours ago. And initially, you know, they didn't want to say much. They asked us actually to leave the premise. We have put in a call to the press information officer from the hospital but we have yet to hear back so we are still waiting as all members of the media are on an update on her condition. We know thankfully from her supporters that she is alive at this hour -- Poppy.

HARLOW: And we're looking at pictures from her as well from the Instagram account, some of them taken as recently as last night.

Nick Valencia, thank you very much for the reporting. We appreciate it.

And as Nick said, so far no signs of drugs or alcohol in the initial police investigation into Bobbi Kristina Brown's home that they have been searching where she was found, face down in a bathtub this morning around 10:30 a.m. Earlier on the program I spoke with addiction specialist, Dr. Drew Pinsky.

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DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: A young, healthy otherwise adult female has a sufficiently severe medical condition to drown in a bathtub face down, you better hope that's substance related. Because there are very few medical conditions that will do that, seizure perhaps being one of them. But then why would she has seizure? Almost nothing else would do that other than some sort of terminal condition which she does not have.

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HARLOW: Dr. Drew Pinsky there.

Thank you to our viewers around the world for joining us. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. The news here continues right here on CNN after a quick break.

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