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Why It's Necessary And Save to Vaccinate for Measles; Moms' Group Taking School Sanitizing Into Their Hands; Aaron Hernandez Trial

Aired February 03, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Happening now, a House hearing about to begin on Capitol Hill. On the agenda, measles and the effectiveness of vaccines in stopping its spread. The issue has become partisan with politicians including Senator Rand Paul and Hillary Clinton weighing in on both sides of whether or not to vaccinate.

But let's look at the facts. We're only 34 days into 2015 and already we have surpassed the number of cases reported in all of 2012. There are now 102 reported cases of measles across 14 states, most of them tracing back to an outbreak at Disneyland in California. According to the CDC, measles is extremely contagious. If you are not immune, either because you never got the vaccine or too young to get one, you have a 90 percent chance of getting infected. I'm joined now by senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. Elizabeth, what can we expect from today's testimony?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think the Centers for Disease Control is going to reiterate what they've been saying which is, number one, Carol, this is sure to spread. It's 14 states now. It's 102 cases now. It is sure to be bigger in the future. And they are also going to reiterate the need for vaccination. I think what's so frustrating to folks at the CDC is that this is preventable. You know, this isn't a problem that is just insurmountable. It's very easy to solve. Get your children vaccinated.

COSTELLO: And if you have been - if you got your vaccination before, what, 1990, you should get another one?

COHEN: Well, if you were vaccinated before 1990, you only got one shot instead of two, and you may possibly be vulnerable to measles. And so, if you were exposed, if you know people in some of these 14 states, you are hanging out with them, go to your doctor and ask what you should do. I think many doctors will say, look, you may be immune. You may not be. Let's just be safe and give you a second shot.

COSTELLO: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, many thanks to you. I appreciate it. So, vaccinating your child is not medically controversial but it is an emotional issue. It's your kid after all, right? The anti-vaccinators tend to be wealthy, educated and liberal. The face of the movement is arguably Jenny McCarthy who said famously, my son is my science, although she later backed away from her claims that vaccines caused her child's autism. It's confusing to me that so many are questioning medical science, so I have invited CNN political analyst and mother Sally Kohn and Dr. Saad Omer. Welcome to you both.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

DR. SAAD OMER, ASSOCIATE PROF. EMORY VACCINE CENTER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. Sally, you bravely wrote an op-ed for "The Daily Beast" titled, "I didn't vaccinate my child and I regret it." You go on to say this, "Fundamentally, I'm embarrassed to say that the idea that we might be putting other people at risk by not vaccinating our daughter, never really crossed our minds. We were focused on keeping our daughter safe and little else. That was a mistake." Sally, why?

KOHN: I know. You know, it's not the first mistake. It's the confession. I'm getting a lot of WTFs from my friends this morning. Because, you know, I haven't talked about this. Look, the story people can go read the piece, but it's simple. When I was a new parent, my partner and I were new parents. It felt like there were a million decisions to make. Everything felt overwhelming and my mom who is a very smart, wonderful, caring person -- hi, mom, I love you very much -- felt very, very strongly about this for reasons that ultimately I came to look into my own and my partner and I came to disagree with, but in the beginning she felt incredibly strongly. Wrote us a 46-page report, my mom is a mathematician, laid out what she thought was the evidence against it. And, you know, it was one less decision to make. And so we delayed.

COSTELLO: Wow. So this op-ed must have been incredibly hard for you to write.

KOHN: It was hard to decide to write. It wasn't actually hard to write. Because it's been several years since we had a change of heart, change of mind, got our child fully vaccinated.

COSTELLO: That is just something. And, you know, even a lot of the people who really, really like you were saying WTF, right?

KOHN: Well, yeah. And sometimes they are spelling it out. You know, and I have to say like, the biggest regret for me is, you know, look, is it a failure of logic? Yes, on some part I just didn't look into it enough on my own. But it also feels more like a moral failing. I mean as a progressive, as a liberal, as a patriot, I believe in this notion that we all do better when we all do better. I believe in community. We're all connected. You know, it's part of the values that made me, for instance, want to send my kid to a public school because I want my kid to do well and I want to invest in education that helps all kids. All those values made sense to me and yet I just somehow I didn't connect that to this decision to not vaccinate my child, which seemed only about my child at the time, but now I came to realize -- COSTELLO: And, Doctor, Sally certainly isn't alone. And, you know, a

lot of educated liberal people are out there who decide not to vaccinate their kids because they find this information online and they discount what their own doctors may tell them. Why is that, do you think?

OMER: So, there are a lot of sources of information. And a lot of moms and fathers. They are -it's like when a baby is born, it's like a fast moving train. And there's a lot of information coming from all sorts of sources. The Internet, individuals, family and friends, et cetera. So, in our group what we are focusing on now is providing education about vaccines during pregnancy. So, the breastfeeding people do that. The safety people do that. And so why not talk about vaccines? Why not have that discussion when someone is pregnant and when a family is making all sorts of other decisions that are assimilating all sorts of other information, we believe that's the time to talk about vaccines. At least to start the conversation and then continue it after the baby is born.

As a father myself, I had a four-month jetlag after my son was born. You know, obviously, my wife, I guess, was even more involved, but still, it was the time to talk about it is in pregnancy. At least start talking about it in pregnancy.

COSTELLO: With your doctor, right. So, we have to talk about the political angle. And Sally, because measles vaccines have become political, which is, perhaps, understandable since you write "Why trust the government and pharmaceutical industry when it comes to vaccines? That skepticism doesn't seem selfish but smart until it isn't." Is that sort of what Senator Rand Paul was getting at when he said you know, you should have the freedom to decide whether to vaccinate your kids?

KOHN: Awkward when I agree with Rand Paul. Look, I do think there is sort of two camps, it seems, that break down and folks who are skeptical about vaccines. One is folks who are skeptical, generally skeptical about government and government intrusion and what they see as government intrusion and then sort of liberal progressive well to do folks like myself who have this sort of sense that we live in this kind of bubble community and we're protected from all these other things and, you know, are thinking too selfishly.

I will say that there's a conversation we should have here, which is more than just partisan about the indictment that both sides seem to suggest of government and government's coziness with the pharmaceutical industry, with the medical industry that often, you know, we were - when my partner was pregnant, we were being told to schedule a C-section. You shouldn't schedule a C-section. But a lot of doctors in New York push for scheduling C-sections. You know, there's a lot of hormones in milk are safe and hormones in chicken are safe and a lot of that where government is on the wrong side and truly can't be trusted, feeds into a lot of the skepticism when government is, in fact, taking the right position.

COSTELLO: OK, so along those lines, Doctor, would you prefer that politicians just not talk about vaccines? I mean politicians not talk about vaccines.

OMER: Well, I think we have a democracy. So, everyone has a right to talk about it. But I think how we talk about it is important and vaccines are a science based product. And we should give a little bit of deference. Not, you know, again, in a democracy everyone has a voice, but a little bit of deference to - to science based organizations, so not necessarily the government. Obviously, there are some of the smartest experts are with the National Institutes of Health or the CDC, et cetera, but also, so this is not even a controversy within the medical or the public health community.

The American Academy of Pediatrics which is an independent organization has come out strongly in favor of vaccination and infectious disease society of America has come out strongly in favor of vaccination. So I think politicians should give a little bit of deference to people who deal with vaccines, who understand the science from multiple aspects, from the basic microbiological aspects to the clinical, to even a little bit policy aspects as well.

COSTELLO: All right, Dr. Saad Omer, Sally Kohn, thanks so much. Especially to you, Sally. I appreciate it. If you want to read the rest of Sally's op-ed, "I Didn't Vaccinate My Child and I Regret It" head to the dailybeast.com.

As we are seeing more cases of preventable diseases like measles and whooping cough, one Michigan mother said enough is enough. Beth Olosky organized a group of parents to wipe down desks at a local elementary school to try to stop a growing whooping cough outbreak before it got any worse. Beth Olosky who also operates a daycare joins us now. Good morning, Beth.

BETH OLOSKY: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, just your general feelings about this controversy surrounding measles vaccines when there shouldn't be a controversy, right?

OLOSKY: Right. I'm a vaccinator. My children are vaccinated. It's a real fear for me because I have an infant right now that can't get all of those vaccinations and I'm just trying to safeguard my children from these preventable diseases.

COSTELLO: I don't know if you heard the conversation with Sally Kohn, did you?

OLOSKY: Yes.

COSTELLO: What did you think?

OLOSKY: I understand that it's everybody's decision to decide what they want to do for their family and what the right choice is. I think THAT it's up to the parents to do their research, to gain a knowledge that they need to make that decision. But their decision does affect their community.

COSTELLO: And especially yours. I mean you were so concerned about it, you organized a group of parents to go wipe down desks at school. Tell me about that.

OLOSKY: Well, it started out with a small text to some friends asking if they could donate some Clorox wipes and spend a few minutes at the school to wipe down some lockers. I decided that it got some good response so I made a Facebook page and within 24 hours we had more than 30 containers of wipes brought to the school to the teaching staff, to the office area, and within the next 24 hours we had a group of moms and children wiping down every single locker in the school. The computer labs. Art rooms. Desks, chairs. Anything that we could do to try to help eliminate and prevent the spreading.

COSTELLO: Is it kind of irritating to you that you had to take matters into your own hands?

OLOSKY: No. I think that, you know, these things happen. And we just do our best to continue forward and try to stop it in its tracks. You know, this couldn't have been done without the help of the community, the families at our school, Mill Creek, coming together and stepping up for the kids.

COSTELLO: Well, Beth Olosky, thanks for your efforts. We sure appreciate it. And thank you for joining me today. I appreciate it. Still to come in the "NEWSROOM," the snow stops, but the temperatures keep sliding. Millions of Americans find themselves shivering in a flash freeze.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Just moments ago in Boston, the city's mayor vowed that the parade will go on for the new Super Bowl champions. Sidewalks lining the parade route have been buried under several feet of snow, so Boston will honor the hometown Patriots tomorrow. The mayor promises. CNN's Alexandra Field is in Boston to give us a little tour. Good morning.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. We're waiting for an update right now from Mayor Marty Walsh who is about to speak to let people know if, in fact, this parade will go on as planned at 11:00 tomorrow. It was supposed to happen today, but if you take a look at the conditions around me, you can start to understand why the city at the last minute said let's delay this a day. People who are out here shoveling, they are trying to clear off these roads and sidewalks.

The massive amount of snow that's on the street is a big problem considering the fact that they expected thousands of people to be out here pressed up against these snow banks and with really nowhere to stand in some parts of the sidewalks, but also it's the brutal and bitterly cold temperatures, which really, I think contributed to the decision to call off the parade. That sunshine that you're seeing outside of the windows is deceptive.

We are going up the Boylston Street right now, and people are just truly bundled up even for Boston, we're in single digits here. The thought of standing out on Boylston Street for this parade probably too much and not a safe idea. In order to take some precautions, the city had planned to have EMTs and firefighters out here, that's because the conditions were so bad, but again at the last minute they decided hey, let's take another day and wait for the temperatures to climb and wait for a little more cleanup to be done. So, the plan for now for this parade to kickoff at 11:00 tomorrow. Those 25 iconic duck boats that the city is known for will make their way up this route that we're following right now. Up Boylston, they then go up Traymond Street and they'll wind up at city hall.

And Carol, yesterday the mayor had said that once the duck boats got to city hall, that would be it. Parade over. No rally in place at city hall, which is the tradition of this city because of the cold temperatures. So we will have to see whether or not that remains the plan, Carol.

COSTELLO: I just want to take a look at the roadways once again. Because kudos to the city of Boston. 41 inches of snow over the past several days and those roads are clear. That is amazing.

FIELD: You know, the mayor said that when this storm was in the forecast, of course, it came on the heels of the last blizzard that crews were working already to start to clear this route. And he's wanted to be clear, but they are working all over the city. But they were certainly working to get this parade route clear. They didn't want to jinx anyone, but they did know that Patriot Fans, those very loyal fans, would be expecting to welcome this team home as Super Bowl champions. They wanted to give them this parade. And they had said that it was important to have the parade today because so many of the Patriots leave town at the end of the season.

But ultimately it was decided it would be best for everyone to just go ahead and do it tomorrow. They'll clear the roads and they'll hope that ice won't be an issue.

COSTELLO: I hope not. Alexandra Field reporting live from the beautiful city of Boston. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the "NEWSROOM," the Aaron Hernandez trial delayed. What happened in the courtroom this morning, though, as it resumes. We'll take you back to Boston next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: After a brief weather delay, the Aaron Hernandez murder trial was expected to resume today. However, we just learned the judge has suspended the trial due to an issue with evidence. Miguel Marquez is in Fall River covering the trial for us this morning. What happened?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it sounds like a couple of things are happening this morning. This is only the second day of testimony. It was expected to be a very long trial. First, there was what appeared to be a juror who was brought up to the judge to answer some questions. It's not clear what the judge spoke to this juror about previously. The judge had said jurors could watch the Super Bowl. There was some concern that during the Super Bowl there may be talk of Aaron Hernandez, but told them, they cannot research Hernandez, they can't research the case and you have to beware that if there is discussion about Hernandez during the Super Bowl, you have to turn away from that and not watch it. It's not clear whether this individual, a woman in her 40s, was dismissed or not. But that we'll learn more on. Secondly, Aaron Hernandez went to the judge's sidebar, to the judge's desk while this juror was being questioned and then there was a discussion about evidence that possibly the prosecution wants to bring in more evidence. Something regarding an evidentiary hearing that the judge wants to hold now.

Hernandez's lawyers argue that Hernandez could be there for that hearing. The judge saying, no, citing case law. Turned into a big legal discussion. The judge said we're suspending this for now awaiting that evidentiary hearing. So, we should know more hopefully in the next hour or so. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right. Miguel Marquez, we'll let you go gather more information for us, thank you very much, but let's talk about this. I'm joined by criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Anne Bremner and CNN legal analyst and criminal defense lawyer Danny Cevallos. Welcome to both of you. So, let's start with the juror issue first ...

ANNE BREMNER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So, let's start with the juror issue first, Danny. What do you make of it?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This kind of thing happens all the time. One of two things could have happened. I'm just speculating. But sometimes a juror comes in and says, oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry. I read the paper. I wasn't aware. And accidentally I saw something. I want to know if it's OK. I want to know if I'm in trouble. But sometimes in high-profile cases I've seen where jurors dime out other jurors and it often happens that oh, we were by the coffee machine and juror number five started talking about I would never believe that witness. I heard she's a big fat liar. And I have seen that personally in my own cases. And what happens then is that that juror gets called to the side and the judge finds out what exactly they heard.

Now, these are just two possibilities. But it frequently happens during a trial that some question is raised about what a juror may have seen or said and the judge has to investigate it. The court has to look into it at side bar and question that juror to find out if they are fatally tainted.

COSTELLO: OK, so, fatally tainted. So, you heard Miguel Marquez. And mention the Super Bowl, right? And jurors were allowed to watch the Super Bowl. But if anything about Aaron Hernandez came up, they had to turn away. Is that really that serious that you would dismiss a juror over?

BREMNER: No. Everybody watched the Super Bowl. It's the most watched Super Bowl ever except for Aaron Hernandez. But all of the jurors were allowed to do it. He wasn't mentioned. So, I don't know what would have come out of the Super Bowl that would lead to this hearing on a juror. But obviously, the juror - something came up, you know. Was it about Hernandez? Was it about the case? We'll be speculating, but something came up where this juror might have information that might taint their ability to be fair. And we'll see. I mean we'll learn soon enough. It does happen all the time in high- profile cases because everybody talks about these cases except for the jurors.

COSTELLO: Except for the jurors, but that's why they made alternate jurors.

CEVALLOS: That's why we have them. We foresee exactly this situation. And if that juror is no good anymore, then the next one moves up and takes the place.

COSTELLO: OK, so now let's tackle, Anne, the evidence issue that prosecutors have new evidence to bring into trial. That's normal, too, right?