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Jordanian Pilot Burned Alive in a Cage in ISIS Video

Aired February 03, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We're back with our breaking news. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN's special coverage here right now.

The United States is working to confirm the authenticity of this ISIS video that appears to take the terrorist brutality to an entirely different level. In this video, which we will not be showing any frame of it, shows a Jordanian fighter pilot held captive since December being burned alive inside of a cage. President Obama said the coalition fighting ISIS will now work harder than ever to defeat this terror group.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Should, in fact, this video be authentic, it's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization. And it, I think, will redouble the vigilance and determination on the part of a global coalition to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to our chief Washington correspondent, anchor of "The LEAD" Jake Tapper. And Jake, you have been in touch with your senior administration officials, your sources. What are they telling you?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, obviously Jordan has been part of the mission, the coalition fighting ISIS, helping out with some flying missions, with intelligence, and the way it was phrased to me, not objecting to the arming of the free Syrian army by the coalition.

But the administration official with whom I spoke says he believes this is actually going to be a moment for Jordan where they get even more committed, more involved in the fight against ISIS. That Jordan historically has been ambivalent about taking a public military role, but this is going to enable King Abdullah to do more and do more publicly.

One of the reasons for which is not just that a Jordanian was killed but this -- that the victim was a Muslim and was killed in not just a very horrifying way but a very un-Islamic way. It's contrary to Islam to burn a body alive or dead. So to do this, senior administration official with whom that I spoke says, they believe this is going to help get Jordan even more committed to the cause of fighting ISIS.

BALDWIN: What about just bigger picture, you know, just going back to the notion we know that they wanted to dismantle, destroy ISIS. We've heard this from the Pentagon. We've heard this from the president. Where does this war against ISIS stand? I know it kind of depends on who you ask.

TAPPER: Right. Well, according to the administration official with whom I spoke, he cautioned on reading too much into one horrific event, as if this event gives ISIS momentum. It does not. The official said ISIS is still battling for control of Iraq, on its heels a little bit there. Doing OK, doing well in Syria. Not doing well when it comes to issues such as governance. They are trying to become a state, obviously. They're not doing well in that respect.

But of course, one thing that this tape does demonstrate in a very vivid and disgusting way is that ISIS has a gift for propaganda and using social media. And that has enabled the group to do really well, unfortunately, when it comes to recruiting. So while this event is not an indication that ISIS is winning, it's also a suggestion that there is a lot of work to be done, especially when it comes to combating this kind of propaganda war.

BALDWIN: Right. Incredibly, highly sophisticated, highly produced video.

Jake Tapper, I know you're going to talk a lot more about it at the top of the hour on "The Lead."

TAPPER: Yes.

BALDWIN: We will tune in as we always do. Thank you, sir, very much.

TAPPER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You know, the timing of all this here, the releasing of this video, happening the very same day, the very same week that the king of Jordan is in Washington, D.C. But we've now learned he's actually cutting it short -- his trip short to the United States in the wake of what's happened, in the wake of the murder of one of his own military.

King Abdullah was able to visit with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. No details yet as far as what the king told the senators. But in the statement we just played you a few minutes ago, King Abdullah called on his people to come together in the face of terrorism.

So I just want to bring in Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" just to talk a little bit more about this.

It's interesting sort of going back to what Jake Tapper said and his source in the administration hoping that this will force, you know, Jordan to be even more committed to this fight. I mean, a lot of Jordanians see this as this is the U.S.'s war and they don't want to be involved. FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Well, you know, to be fair,

I know the Jordanians pretty well. The Jordanians are very committed to this fight. They have been very committed from the start. It is true, and Jake's reporting is absolutely correct, they don't like to say it publicly. They have tended to do this a little bit more behind the scenes. But behind the scenes, the Jordanians are the fiercest fighters. They have been the most committed. It has been the Turks who have been more ambivalent. It's the Saudis who have been more willing to do it unilaterally by, you know, sending their own Jihadist.

The Jordanian have been very tough. And the Jordanian military is incredibly impressive. The king, have you talked to the king of Jordan, he knows the battled field of Syria and Iraq like the back of his hand.

I mean, he -- these guys are very committed to the fight. But this gives them an opportunity to talk about it publicly, to talk about, as Jake was saying that this is utterly un-Islamic. And you know, the king of Jordan has a unique road here. The king of Jordan is said to be a direct descendent of the Prophet Muhammad.

So if he would want to say, you know, if you would take that historical authority and wait and say this is a travesty of the religion, I think it would carry weight not just in Jordan but the entire Arab world.

BALDWIN: What about we were just playing some of the video of all these, you know, I don't know how many -- if it's a hundred or hundreds of people amassing in Amman now, yelling, calling for revenge. What do you think revenge will look like?

ZAKARIA: Almost certainly, you know, redoubled efforts in the air campaign, perhaps some special operations.

Look, as I said, they're battling ISIS anyway. This gives them greater public legitimacy and credibility. And I think it's important to point that out that this may not be such a smart move. Because ISIS may have won a kind of propaganda, won in the sense that they've terrified, you know, they've kind a startled us all and they may have gotten some recruits, or some demented people. But with most people's reaction is going to be "what an evil organization." And that reaction is going to be true whether it's Amman, Jordan or New York.

BALDWIN: I want to play some sound this is from the fighter pilot's father this was back when of course he was calling an ISIS to release him. This is back on Christmas day. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAAZ AL-KASASBEH, FATHER OF JORDANIAN PILOT (through translator): He is now in the hands of Islamic state fighters, and I do not want to describe him as a hostage. I call him a guest. He is a guest among brothers of ours in Syria's Islamic state. I ask them in the name of God and ask with the dignity of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, to receive him as a guest and treat him well. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A guest among brothers. And we were talking in commercial, I was asking you that at what point will some of these people say enough is enough as far as in the name of Islam? This is not -- this is not Islam.

ZAKARIA: Well, let's be fair and cut some slack to a father who is perhaps using every trick in the book to try and get his son home safely.

BALDWIN: Of course.

ZAKARIA: But if he really did believe what he was saying, then surely this execution puts a light to it and makes people realize these people are not people who care about Islam. You cannot appeal to them using religious principles. What they care about is thuggery, violence, saw in fear and intimidation. And for all those who thought that you know, maybe there's a path to appeal to them about religion and purity, that's not these guys. These guys are thugs.

BALDWIN: Quickly, do you think that Jordan expedites the execution of this failed female suicide bomber they have on death row?

ZAKARIA: Jordan tends to have a pretty tough sense of, you know, the rule of law and things like that. It is of course, not a democracy, but what I mean by that is they have procedures. I'd be surprised if they do something to emotion.

The key here for all of us, this is a very gruesome video, and the news of it, even if you haven't seen the video, is gruesome, but you can't jump to the bait. You can't take the bait.

BALDWIN: Keep our emotions in check.

ZAKARIA: Right. It's a terrible day, but you know, maybe wait for a day or two before you do anything. Because after all, what they're hoping to do is to bait the United States and Jordan and others into overreacting in some way and then they can say, you see we have the world's attention. We are the center of the world. And we want to really say to them, you're a band of thugs. You know.

BALDWIN: We will.

Fareed Zakaria, thank you so much. Fareed Zakaria, host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS" on Sundays at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on CNN.

As we keep our eye on that breaking news, we're also following another situation unfolding in south of France. A man armed with a knife goes on an attack, targeting soldiers. We'll have that for you next.

Also ahead, new pictures show French terrorist Amedy Coulibaly and his wife on vacation. What we're learning about these photos, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: French officials say a knife-wielding attacker arrested today in knees had the very same last name as the Paris kosher market attacker Amedy Coulibaly. Moussa Coulibaly allegedly stabbed two soldiers patrolling near a Jewish center. Part of an increase security effort after last month's terror attack in Paris.

Authorities have not confirmed any direct relation between these two men, but Moussa Coulibaly reportedly traveled to Turkey last week, flying from Rome to Istanbul. French intelligence reportedly alerted Turkish authorities to his movements and he was put on a plane back to Rome the very same day.

Why might this accused knife attacker's flight to Turkey matter? Well, France is still reeling of course from last month's terror attacks. And one suspect in those attacks is presumed to have escaped to Syria. She is Hayat Boumeddiene. She is likely crossed into Syria from Turkey.

Today we are seeing new photos of her and her husband, the kosher market attacker, Amedy Coulibaly, in bathing suits out on the water in a boat. The images a stark contrast to the violent mission that ended with his death as she reportedly fled the country.

Meanwhile, French police are still making arrests in the sweeping terror investigation, taking eight people into custody today in Leon and the Paris suburbs.

Joining me now from Washington, D.C., our justice correspondent Pamela Brown.

And Pamela, let's just begin with these new photos, once again highlighting as weave -- I know covered a lot on the show the role of women in ISIS. You talked to the FBI's head of counterterrorism in this interview. What did he talk about with regard to that?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I had the rare opportunity, Brooke, to speak to Michael Steinbach, the head of the FBI's counterterrorism and division. And it's interesting. He says the recruitment of women by ISIS is much more than we have ever seen by a foreign terrorist organization. He says that we've seen everything from a female fighter, dedicated groups of women fighters, women going to fight on the front lines, and those who have gone over to support foreign fighters by marrying some of these ISIS militants. And he says in many cases, Broke, ISIS is pushing out a false narrative of what it's like in Syria in order to lure these women to come over.

But of course, the reality is much different. And he says kids in America are also sucking up that narrative because ISIS is going into American homes through social media and trying to lure in vulnerable youth as young as 13 years old globally. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Are these kids, 15-year-olds, 16 which in cases with 17, 18- year-olds, are they actually indirect contact in some of these cases with ISIS militants who are overseas in Syria that are reaching out to them directly?

MICHAEL STEINBACH, FBI COUNTERTERRORISM & DIVISION HEAD: Yes. And I think that's the structure of social media. It allows for a quick horizontal communication node across communities and across the globe. And what we're seeing is individuals in Syria reaching directly into the United States starting in public chats on different social media platforms and then moving to private chats where they continue to recruit, inspire, and then course individuals either to travel overseas or even worst to conduct an attack here in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And Brooke, he said that there have been a number of cases where they stopped kids from America from going to Syria but he can't say for certain that kids have been made it over there. I asked where have the parents been in all of these. He says, in some cases they're clueless, other cases they didn't speak up, and other cases, Brooke, he says they actually encourage their kids to go down the path of Jihad.

So it's really of a fascinating conversation we had.

BALDWIN: No kidding.

BROWN: But the one thing is parents and the community needs to do more to combat this problem.

BALDWIN: I can't wait to watch much more of you interview. I know we'll be watching with you and Jake Tapper on "The Lead" on the next hour. Pamela Brown, great interview. Thank you so, so much. We'll watch for you all come to situation room with Wolf Blitzer.

BROWN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Back to our breaking news, the Jordanian pilot murder, burned alive in his cage. His video is now released by ISIS.

Next, how this fight against ISIS is working? How it's not working. We'll talk to former aids General David Petraeus for his take next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just hours ago, ISIS reporters released his video that is absolutely just disgusted. Everyone here at CNN and around world, this captured Jordanian fighter pilot, this 27-year-old trapped inside of a cage clutching his head and screaming as he is burned alive. It's a vile video, which we here at CNN will not show you a single frame of. You are looking at pictures from when his F-16 went down back in December.

Colonel Peter Mansoor, retired U.S. Army and formal aid to General David Petraeus, joins me now.

Good to see you. Welcome back to the show, Sir.

COL. PETER MANSOOR, (RET.) U.S. ARMY: Thanks for having me on. BALDWIN: Let's just begin with, you know, ISIS tactics first to go

from beheadings to now this. Of course, this is all about, you know, propaganda, getting more, you know, ISIS fighters but in the end don't you say -- you say this will increase the blow back against ISIS?

MANSOOR: Eventually the Islamic world is going to come to the conclusion that this group is just a pure evil and it's barbaric. Its methods are inhuman. And I think, eventually what these kinds of actions that ISIS is perpetrating against individuals is going to cause the luster to come off of it. The sheen that it has right now.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about the sheen that lack there perhaps of ISIS there. They are none to believe to have control of roughly 8 million people in both Iraq and in Syria but the Pentagon has just said that ISIS is a different group that it was since seven months ago. And they say they are degrading them. Do you believe that?

MANSOOR: The U.S. air campaign along with actions by Kurdish Peshmerga and Shia militias and some Iraqi army forces have blunted the momentum of ISIS. ISIS hasn't gained any large chunks of territory since the middle of last year. But that's going a long way -- that a long way from saying that we're going to roll them back given the same tactics. It's going to require a much more robust ground force and it's going to require the Sunnis in those areas under ISIS control to turn against ISIS as they did Al-Qaeda and Iraq during the surge of U.S. forces in 2007 and 2008.

BALDWIN: I mean can you just speak a little bit more to the brutality of this group. This is a group that even Al-Qaeda has rejected for being too violent.

MANSOOR: So extreme that even Al-Qaeda realizes that in the end the Islamic world will turn against ISIS. And that's why the Jeddah send them. Also ISIS didn't want fall under Al-Qaeda leadership. So it's a political squabble within the extremist Islamic camp as well.

You know the best thing that we can do and that the Islamic world can do is use ISIS' own propaganda against it. To show --

BALDWIN: How so?

MANSOOR: Well, when you continue to hammer home what this group does to ordinary people, it's going to turn the ordinary people against it. We did that back in 2007 with Al Qaeda and Iraq propaganda. Turned it against it and we got the Sunni tribes to line up and fight Al Qaeda in Iraq. That's what needs to happen here as well.

But to get the Sunni's and the Sunni tribes to fight ISIS, it's going to require a lot of heavy lifting and some political arrangements that haven't been made yet with the Iraqi government.

BALDWIN: I know that this 27-year-old fighter pilot comes from a prominent tribe in Jordan. How will this affect those tribes? How can, you know, Jordan really take this fight -- take this fight against terror, move it forward, make this really their own. Do you see that happening next? Thirty seconds.

MANSOOR: One or two things is going to -- exactly. One of two things can happen here. Jordan can back off or they can get involved in the fight against ISIS in a big way. Because they have a large contiguous land border with Syria, they can help this fight by helping full man this tribal rebellions that could do so much damage in the end, destroy ISIS on the ground.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much, Colonel Mansoor. I appreciate your time here.

And stay right here with CNN as we continue covering the horrible gruesome, gruesome video taking ISIS' brutality to an entirely different level with the murder now of this 27-year-old Jordanian fighter pilot. We've now heard from the king of Jordan. He happened to be in Washington D.C. for the week. We now know he has cut his trip short. He will be heading home to Jordan to address this. What will the coming days look like? We have to wait and see.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Thank you so much for being with me.

"The LEAD" with Jake Tapper, starts right now.