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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Breaking News Coverage Of Murder Of Jordanian Air Force Pilot At Hands Of ISIS Captors; King Abdullah of Jordan Expected To Return To His Country From U.S.; Obama Gives Short Statement About the "Barbarity" Of ISIS

Aired February 03, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world, CNN's breaking news coverage of the apparent murder of the Jordanian Air Force Pilot, Lt. Moaz al- Kasasbeh, apparently at the hands of his ISIS captors. And the headline here is in the most gruesome of manners. Photographs now being shown online and circulating depicting that lieutenant caged and being set ablaze in the streets of an unknown location.

CNN has chosen not to show these images, two-fold reasons, they are terribly graphic and cruel, but also, they are of high propaganda value to ISIS members. And that is not something that the United States has any interest and/or broadcasters in helping to propagate.

You're seeing some live pictures right now at a town hall in Jordan. I believe in the capital of Amman. We had just had a live report - it is actually not in Amman, it's from the hometown of Lt. Kasasbeh, the victim, and that the location of his hometown Karak, Jordan.

We are just getting these live pictures into us so, forgive us as these pictures come in raw. But you can see to the right of the sign above the door is a photograph blown up of Moaz al-Kasasbeh. And you can see that there are people gathering earlier as we asked our live reporters, 7:32 p.m. Jordan time.

The news was just starting to get out in Jordan of this murder, but that it hadn't fully circulated among the population. But clearly, when it does, there will be reaction more than likely in the streets.

I want to go live to the United States White House right now where our White House Correspondent Michelle Kosinski is standing by. Perhaps by pure happenstance and coincidence, King Abdulah of Jordan is in the United States.

First if you could let me know what their reaction is of the White House, of the administration to this terrible news of the violent and atrociously cruel death of Lieutenant Kasasbeh.

MICHELE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the National Security Council just put out a statement condemning ISIS's actions saying that the U.S. is aware of this video, the intelligence community is working to confirm its authenticity, calling for the release of all ISIS hostages, and saying that the U.S. stands in solidarity with Jordan.

And you mentioned the visit of the Jordanian King. He and other officials met with Secretary of State, John Kerry. The U.S. has pledged additional aid to Jordan, $ 1 billion a year for the next few years in the fight against ISIS, because Jordan has been a partner. And also to deal with the humanitarian crisis, all of the refugees across the border from Syria now in Jordan estimated to be at least a million of them.

So, Jordan has been dealing with this problem not only with the U.S. to fight ISIS, but dealing with the humanitarian crisis within its own country. And this video, I mean, we're hearing analysts say that this appears to be a message to the Jordanians and other Arab partners in the fight against ISIS, that their efforts are not appreciated and this violence is the result of it. That's what ISIS seems to be conveying here.

This video is much different than the other ones we've seen. I mean, the pilot appears to be burned alive while standing in a cage. So it seems as though ISIS is ramping up its graphic violence, so that it gets this play around the world and leaving governments to try and respond to it, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK. And again a reminder, I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world, that CNN is not showing those pictures.

Michelle Kosinski, thank you. Those pictures are very graphic. They are also of high propaganda value, but I can tell you what the pictures do so.

They purportedly show Lt. Muath al-Kasasbeh standing in a cage out on a street in the public. His clothes appeared to be doused with some kind of fluid, some kind of liquid. He appears to have been beaten. He has bruises on his face, under his eyes. There is also -- and this is where it just gets harrowing.

There is a line of fire that is approaching the cage in which he is standing. The series of photos then go on to depict the fire engulfing the lieutenant from the waist down. It is a horrifying depiction of what now seems to be the most sadistic of videos or photograph that ISIS has released.

I want to go live to Barbara Starr who is standing by at the Pentagon. There is so much talk of how this will affect the coalition, and how the Jordanian government will react to this, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Ashleigh. I can tell you from a source of ours here at CNN very familiar with Jordanian thinking. It is now expected that King Abdullah who is in Washington, pre-planned visit. They'd expected the King will return to Jordan in the coming hours. We do not know if he will make a statement here in the United States but he is now expected to cut his visit to Washington short and return to Amman. There will be several things immediately needing his attention. First and foremost, communicating with the people of Jordan about all of this, talking to the family, talking to the people of Jordan about what has happened, and determining a way ahead for Jordan's role in the coalition.

We've talked a lot about the sensitivity of this. This puts King Abdullah very much right on the spot of leading Jordan now and trying to determine how much they still want to be part of the coalition. And how much the people of Jordan will be behind the King and the government in this coalition at this point, because, you know, in Jordan, the king, the government, they -- their strength, their power really exist on -- as a result of how much loyalty they have from the tribes that we have talked about and this family is a very strong tribe that the pilot belongs to.

So this will be a very delicate dance. The king expected to return to Jordan in the coming hours. I can also tell you, U.S. miliary looking at that video frame by frame trying to determine what they can from it. Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Barbara Starr, live for us at the Pentagon. Thank you for that.

I just want to remind our viewers here in the United States and around the world, the coalition that we continue to speak of has a number of members all with different roles, but just as a reminder, the Western allies and the coalition include Canada, the U.K., Australia, France, Germany, and The Netherlands, other nations that United States state department has listed include Italy, Poland, Denmark, Albania, and Croatia. Again, with different roles, New Zealand, Romania, South Korea as well.

And then the regional allies that are in particular -- of particular interest right now, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Qatar, Iraqi Kurdistan, and Bahrain.

And I want to go live now to CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour who is with us in London.

That is a significant lift. Is it possible that the inhumanity of what we're seeing today, the murder of this pilot in the most heinous, atrocious, and cruel manners might actually see an increase in the membership in this coalition or, Christiane the opposite, a decrease.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, again, you know, ISIS obviously and this is how the analysis goes, is trying to draw that very, very overreaction that you mentioned. It is trying to get people to stop this coalition, to stop the war against ISIS.

ISIS is currently under real military pressure. It's not defeated but it is being pushed back in certain areas. Let's take Kobani, let's take parts of Iraq. Militarily on the ground is not doing as well as it was doing over the last few months and that's a direct result of the air strikes plus whatever local ground forces can be mustered. For instance in the case of Kobani and parts of Iraq, the Kurdish forces.

So, that is what's happening right now. At the same time, ISIS is trying to lash out and create these -- the sub-human acts on people such as the Jordanian pilot, on the Japanese, and as we've seen before on the American journalist, the aid workers and the British as well. And they still have hostages but a very, very dwindling number.

So, its strategy is to try to get more recruit and to scare off the coalition partners. So that is the very political problem that faces King Abdullah of Jordan. Can he convince his people and the important tribes that actually, it is more important to fight these people who have so brutally killed one of theirs now and who did commit their 9/11 back in 2005, this is where that Sajida woman comes in, the woman who failed to detonate her suicide bomb in 2005.

So this is about whether the king can persuade his people that we have to keep fighting these people, otherwise, they're going to come to us. Or whether he will fail to persuade his people and they will say, "No, we can't carry on this fight."

I spoke today to a very key member of the Japanese Prime Minister's delegation, the chief foreign policy advisor. Japan has lost two people to ISIS's hands over the last week. And he said that the Prime Minister of Japan, as you know their constitution doesn't allow them those kind of offensive military actions, but the Japanese will stay firm in pursuing these terrorists he said and in continuing to give humanitarian aid to those who are paying the price of ISIS's onslaught around the world.

So, that is what's going to be very, very front and center as both these nations and others, you know, weigh up what they do next.

BANFIELD: I'm glad you've mentioned that the issue with Japan, Christiane because the wording that came from the leadership of Japan after the execution of both of its hostages was so clear and so precise and so angry which is that usually not the kind of language that you do hear but they certainly have felt -- seemed to feel so they're digging in.

I have to fit a break in. Christiane Amanpour, live for us in London. Stand by if you will.

But after the break, one of the issues with so much of the media that ISIS have been releasing of its murderous rampage has actually contained clues. People have been able to determine the murderer in some of the beheading videos. People have been able to determine the location from the backdrop of the media, the photos, the videos.

Is there something in this latest round, hideous murders videos and photograph that could actually help track the killers? That's next

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BANFIELD: He stands in a cage out in the street. The pictures are atrocious. They are not being broadcast by CNN for their violent nature, and also for the notion that they are part of the propaganda machine of ISIS.

I want to go live Amman, Jordan, where CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is standing by. What is the broadcasting in the news in Jordan of this most latest and horrifying development?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPINDENT: Ashleigh, the Jordanians' State Television, and that is usually how statements from the Jordanian government come. It is true state T.V. They are reporting and confirming the death of Muath al-Kasasbeh. And they say that he was, "martyred on the 3rd of January." They say, he was killed last month.

This does really hear -- explain why, the Jordanian government for the past few weeks and more publicly over the past few days has been insisting on the proof of life. We're not sure now how the Jordanian government knows this.

We are waiting to hear more perhaps in the coming hours. So -- But, so far, this is what Jordanian say television is reporting saying that he was killed on January the 3rd, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Jomana Karadsheh, live for us in Amman, Jordan where it is seven hours ahead of Eastern Time, 7:46 at night. The news disseminating that pilot Lt. Muath al-Kasasbeh has been executed in a very violent way. The pictures being circulated on internet, website. Obviously, the comments from the of the United States' been critical, he made his comment. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THR UNITED STATES: Thank you very much, everybody.

(CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: You know, I just got word of the video that had been released. I don't know the details, the confirmations. But, should that in fact this video be authentic, it's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization.

And, I think we'll be redouble the vigilance and the termination on the part of a Global Recollection to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated. And would also just indicates the degree to which whatever ideology they're operating out of. It's bankrupt.

We're here to talk about how to make people help here and make lives better. And there's organization appears only interested in death and destruction.

Thank you very much everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The President just moments ago in the White House making those comments, but clearly not planning to have to answer to the press on the murder of the Jordanian pilot that ending the news conference on Obamacare -- it was an Obamacare event and the press was able to yell those questions if the United States government has a any reaction to the murder of Muath al-Kasasbeh.

If you're joining us, our -- we want to welcome our viewer in the United States and around the world, the Breaking news being this men on your screen has been murdered purportedly by ISIS in the most brutal of ways, being burned alive in a cage out on the street. We're not showing the pictures, but I can't describe them for you.

He is standing in a cage and there a line fire approaching the cage, he is -- he appears to have clothing that's doused in some kind of liquid and the series of photographs then shows him engulfs in flames in several different position. It is absolutely a callous and sadistic at a level that even ISIS hadn't really depicted in its release videos thus far.

One thing that that have comes to light, Jordanians state television, is now broadcasting that the pilot was actually killed one month ago, that he was murdered on January third. The programming saying, "He was 'martyred' on January 3rd."

So, there is a huge questions, as to why ISIS would not release any proof of life, which was a demand of the Jordanian government in this so called negotiation, to release Kenji Goto and then the other Japanese hostage who'd been held as well, Haruna Yukawa. There have been a money request for 200 million, and then, a request for the release of a female suicide bomber who is being held on death row in Jordan.

The Jordanian saying shows as proof of life of Lt. Kasasbeh, and that never come. And now, today, the circulating pictures and video of that lieutenant engulfed in flames in a cage.

I want to bring in Lt. Col. James Reese, CNN's Global Affairs Analyst who joins me now by telephone.

I wanted to ask you two questions, the first I have thought would be if perhaps these pictures and these videos which we are not showing on CNN might give us clues as to the location and the perpetrators of this horrible crime.

But, I want to switch that direction now knowing that Jordanian television is broadcasting the murder happened, a month ago, Col. Reese, that does tell you the kinds of people who are trying to do these dealings, these hostage negotiations and just, you know, how deceitful and duplicitous they are?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN'S GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well Ashleigh, you're correct and we've known about this for years. I mean, we all know ISIS grew out as our (inaudible) and was the leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq which formed in the ISIS. He had his own people in Iraq during his time that the butcher of Baghdad, they just -- don't foresee it all.

But what I think though you'll also is the Jordanians have a very, very strong intelligence, apparatus in the region, (inaudible) Jordanian people and the family have fought and trained the Jordanian for years. I think what we'll find over the next couple of hours, especially this report on Jamana at the 3rd of January, that's why the Jordanians were really pushing for these things. And with this, this could be good for the coalition side which shows that ISIS did not have the ability to try to negotiate this and kind a make this flip and switch, this bait and which term for this terrorist inside Jordan.

So that would be interesting to watch with the next couple hours what comes out of this.

BANFIELD: James Reese reporting for us via telephone. Thank you for that.

And I just want to bring to light my colleague Michael Holmes who is a CNN International has made it clear that it is haram in Islam to burn anyone dead or alive. In fact, in one of the hadith, Prophet Muhammad saying, "No one entitled to punish with fire except the creator God of the fire."

I want to bring in now, Fareed Zakaria host of Fareed Zakaira, GPS. Fareed I've been speaking with our international -- chief for international correspondent Christiane Amanpour in London about the effect of what ISIS has purportedly done.

The manner in which they have killed this man releasing the videos, showing exactly how it happened online, and whether this will have an affect of growing a colation, angering a collation, awakening some sleeping giants, or in fact the opposite.

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: No, I hope it does exactly, what you're suggesting which is and I hope that when it is reported in the Arab world. It is reported with that hadith, with that commentary front and center, because it is entirely haram disallowed to use fire in any way, to burn a body as you say, even a dead body. It is considered sacrilegious, because the idea has always been in Islam as in Christian, dust to dust the, you know, the body must go back into the ground.

And what I hope happens is the people realize this is not happening to some far away western crusade. This is happening to an Arab, you know, what might change the dynamic, here is that people will focus on the reality that groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, most of their victims are locals, are Arabs are Muslims. And that is sometimes forgotten because the rhetoric is all about battling the crusaders and the Americans and the Jews but the reality is the people they kill in -- because they are largely local thugs who want to...

(AUDIO GAP)

BANFIELD: Earlier if the -- and I ask if Jim should or our national security correspondent who also was dealing with what the coalition will -- how they will process this information.

The coalition aside, will ISIS be its own worst enemy? I've asked this before but the cruelty of beheading people on a video type, but now, with this and as you reiterated, the hadith says that it is against Islam to burn anyone alive or dead, could this be the turning point in terms of ISIS defeating itself, losing it's support. A proof to all of those who think this is actually Islam, but it is not, that these are just thugs and terrorists.

ZAKARIA: Well it may well be precisely...

BANFIELD: We just have a microphone issue, I apologies. We had a faulty microphone and while we get you wired up again I think that question is so critical. The coalition while, it works could actually have ISIS working for it

ZAKARIA: You know, I think that what this reveals is, what is ISIS's method of gaining adherence? It's not following Islam, because clearly they're violating it. It's not showing that they provide justice. It's scaring people. They scare through spectacular acts of terror, through gruesome acts of violence.

And so it makes you realize, yeah there's a certain number of people who will be scared and intimidated, but as you say, larger numbers of people would be turned off.

BANFIELD: And attending.

ZAKARIA: And that's happened with -- that's happened with Al-Qaeda. And remember, Al-Qaeda in Iraq started out fairly strong as a kind of opposition to the American occupation. Very quickly they started slaughtering the shia. And people look back and say my God, this is the sectarian

(OFF-MIKE)

ZAKARIA: Taliban in Afghanistan. So they sowed the seeds of their own destruction because they revealed that they're really about brutality, not about religious power...

BANFIELD: Of our religion. Fahreed Zakaria thank you for that. I need to just cut in right now. Josh Earnest at the White House is now giving a briefing on this matter. Let's go live to the briefing room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As they have been for some time. Our thoughts and prayers continued to be with the family of Lt. Kasasbeh and with the Jordanian people.

The Jordanians have been stalwart members of this broader international coalition that's executing a strategy to do great and ultimately destroy ISIL. And we're going to continue to stand with them even in this very difficult tragic time.

One other thing I want to also mention is I want to commend to your attention of statement from the President's top counter terrorism adviser, Lisa Monaco. She made reference to the fact that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence put forward a report today. This is a report that was directed by the President in Presidential Policy Guidance -- or Presidential Policy Directive 28, where it just signals intelligence activities.

This report was issued at the President's direction to make public the progress that the intelligence community is making on reforming some of our signals intelligence activities. This is a process that's been informed by experts, both inside and outside of the government. And what the report indicates is that the progress the I.C. is and will continue to make on these reforms, will help chart a path forward that should give the American people greater confidence at their right to being protected, while preserving important tools that keep us safe and addressing significant questions that have been raised overseas.

Now there are two other things that I want to make clear about this. The first is never this report has been made public. Now the President wants people to take a look at it, particularly those who expressed a strong opinion on it. And the President intends to meet with some of the experts that he met with last year, to discuss the findings of the report, and to discuss additional steps that can be taken to make further progress on these reforms.

The second thing is this is not just the first report from PPD 28, as they call -- as my friends in National Security Bureaucracy call it. It's going to be the first annual report that the President intends for there to be some important follow up through here. And that in having an annual evaluation of the progress of these reforms, the President believes is important to holding a national security apparatus accountable for striking the appropriate balance between protecting our national security and protecting the civil liberties of the American people. And obviously recognizing all the significant questions have been raised about people overseas.

So, I would certainly commend to your attention the statement from Ms. Monaco, as well as the report of how that's been put up today, so.

With that matter, why don't we get to your questions?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you -- If the Jordanian pilot was indeed killed by ISIS, does that change your impact the haunt, to rescue the American woman and other hostages that are still being held there?

EARNEST: It is not (inaudible) and for one simple reason, which is that the President has already ordered his team to devote all of the available resources that we have to try and to locate anybody, but particularly Americans, who are being held hostage by ISIL.

And we have made clear that the President is willing to devote significant diplomatic intelligence, even military resources to try and secure the release of our citizens who are being held against their will. And that is an effort that which we've continued to be vigilant, and the President receives regular updates on the progress of those efforts. And we're going to continue to be.

You already know that White House officials are in close touch with the families of those who are being held against their will in Syria by ISIL and we'll continue to be. And certainly our thoughts and prayers are with them as well.

They're going through what is, I think, an unimaginable tragedy. And our thoughts and prayers are with them as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since the President waited on Sunday encouraging parents to vaccinate their children. Other elected officials have also spoken about this. Did the President think it's irresponsible for elected leaders to be -- not to be (inaudible) about --

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting form Washington. I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. We begin this hour with breaking news.