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Confirmation Hearings for Ashton Carter Under Way; ISIS Videos: Terrorism Reality or Propaganda?; Kurdish Region Sends Condolences to Jordan; Patriots Celebrate with Snowy Parade

Aired February 04, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Let's head live right now to Capitol Hill where the Senate Armed Services Committee is hearing testimony from Ashton Carter. Of course, these are the confirmation hearings.

Ashton Carter wishes to become the next secretary of defense. He's Obama's pick. The chairman of this committee, Senator John McCain who has been very critical of the Obama administration's handling of the fighting of ISIS just a short time ago asked some tough questions of Ashton Carter. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: -- the strategy of this time.

ASHTON CARTER, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE NOMINEE: I believe I understand our strategy at this time, Mr. Chairman. I also have the intention again if confirmed to make it my first priority to go there, to talk to our leaders, military leaders there to confer with you --

MCCAIN: What do you understand the strategy to be?

CARTER: I think the strategy connects ends and means. And our ends with respect to ISIL needs to be its lasting defeat. I say lasting because it's important that when they get defeated they stay defeated. And that is why it's important that we have those on the ground there who will ensure that they stay defeated once defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We'll keep an eye on this hearing throughout the hour for you.

Showing the reality of terrorism or spreading propaganda -- that's the debate many newsrooms are having when it comes to airing those brutal images from ISIS including the most recent showing captured Jordanian pilot, Muath al-Kasaesbeh being burned alive.

Now CNN has decided not to air any of this video or still photos of the pilot's death. But that's not the decision being made by other media outlets.

Joining me now from Atlanta, Tony Maddox, he's the executive vice president and managing director for CNN International. Good morning, Tony.

TONY MADDOX, EVP AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, CNN INTERNATIONAL: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So first of all, walk through the process of deciding whether to show a video made by ISIS or not.

MADDOX: You got to ask, first of all, do we need to show this video. Is there content in this video that we cannot in any way explain to the audience short of actually showing the video itself? In this case, no. You can say a man was put in a cage and he was set on fire. And he was burned alive. That's horrific, hideous and completely explained what happened. So you don't need to show the video in order to explain that or as any part of the narrative.

So you say are there wider reasons why we need to show it? Do we need to show the inhumanity of these people? Do we need to show the ruthlessness? They're all perfectly legitimate discussion points and arguments.

The flip side of that is what about the victim at the last moment of his life being murdered in this foulest of ways for the propaganda purposes of a group for which no one speaks? There is no widespread support for this group in any shape or form.

And are we being played? I mean this was released as video, which they know most people wouldn't run. It was also released as stills so you have stills that you could run or that you could blur and no journalists likes being played particularly by a group like ISIS.

Does ISIS want us to run this? Yes, they do. In that case, should we see if there's any way we can avoid doing that and still tell the story? If you watch CNN in its entirety across all platforms since the story emerged, no one can say we haven't done the story in the most thorough, comprehensive and wide reaching and I would say responsible way.

COSTELLO: I would have to agree with you. Although, you now, you could argue that we did choose to show video of some of the beheading videos. Why did we do that initially?

MADDOX: So let's talk about how the story evolved with ISIS. Most people have never even heard of ISIS just 12 months ago. So when they first appeared with a hostage and with the orange jump suits and with the Jihadi John and the man standing with a sword, all of that was new. We had not seen this before. We needed to understand what was going on.

Then there was a second victim and then there was a third who was a Brit which was the Brits are going to get involved which never showed beheading but actually what was happening was increasingly illustrative. At one point we broadcast the voice of Jihadi John because he was a

Brit. That was an interesting part of this development. There's an Englishman involved in this.

So there was an editorial narrative but at each time we were running less and less. And I think you and I were discussing we didn't show the bizarre PR video they forced one of their hostages into making because again, we thought we were being played. We thought the person involved had no real choice.

We've made the same decision again. We don't need to show these images in order for us to tell this story. We think these images are profoundly disgusting. I, unfortunately in my job, have to see a lot of challenging images. I have never seen anything like this.

Some very seasoned colleagues of mine were visibly upset after verifying this video and working through this video. There's no need to even play that for CNN's worldwide audiences. And also there's the issue that what we at CNN what we do matters and stands for something.

Aside from all these issues about, you know, who watches CNN, where (INAUDIBLE) whatever -- people need to understand CNN is probably the biggest single news organization in the world. We're seen all around the world across all of our platforms, CNN International, CNN USA, CNN Digital Services.

What we decide to do has a huge impact. We're not the only source of images on this story and if people want to see these images, they can see them elsewhere. But it's making a stand on this we believe it's important and that's why we decided to do it.

COSTELLO: Tony, will there come a time sadly, of course, ISIS has more hostages -- right? Will there come a time when we don't even mention what ISIS does with its hostages?

MADDOX: You know, Carol, you never say never about anything in terms of the coverage of this story. It might be that there are images released in the future which we do feel pertinent to do. Because we made this decision now doesn't mean we're backed into a corner.

What we cannot deny is that this is a hugely important story. The U.S. President was commenting on it. The king of Jordan, who was visiting the U.S., commented on it. It will have and we're reporting on it today ramifications and international ramifications, which it might pain us to do some of these stories. We have to do it. That's what CNN is there for and we'll never shirk away from covering the key editorial developments in a powerful and appalling story like this.

COSTELLO: And I'm sure you also sit back and think about the language we use when we tell these stories even in the instances we decided to show the videos, and that's a difficult thing, right? I mean, you don't want to say this is a great -- that's just playing into what they want, right? Language is important too.

MADDOX: I do. I think it's important. Within the journalistic community, there's a discussion I don't have a patience with about whether or not we should be calling these people terrorists. If these are not terrorists, I simply don't know what are. But I do think that as and when we put these stories together, we do need to be careful of -- there's no point in saying we're not going to use words which they might find flattering because if they are accurate -- if we think something is well produced, clearly well designed and shot for a big audience, this video was a properly produced video. It had cutaways in it. It was properly shot. It was properly light-balanced. It was technically obviously made by people who knew what they were doing and targeting that kind of audience.

That's actually pertinent information. This isn't a spur of the moment thing that someone just whipped out their cell phone and shot there and then. This was all part of a carefully planned PR strategy, which again goes back to my point of we have to be careful about not being played as part of that.

COSTELLO: Tony Maddox, thanks so much. Tony Maddox, executive vice president and managing director for CNN International. I appreciate it.

MADDOX: Thank you -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Great guy.

That brutal video by ISIS has sparked intense feelings inside Iraq. The country knows the fight with ISIS -- the country knows the fight with ISIS well. It has been battling the terror group in its cities and along its borders for months.

Phil Black joins us now from Irbil Iraq with more.

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, the self- autonomous government of this Kurdish region of Northern Iraq has sent its condolences to the Jordanian authorities and to the family of Muath al-Kasaesbeh, the Jordanian pilot. They say this event, this murder merely confirms what they already know ISIS to be -- that is an organization of enormous brutality and little humanity.

The Officials say they know this because Kurdish fighters have been battling ISIS ever since it came charging across the border from Syria last year taking huge amounts of territory very quickly. Since then, the Kurdish fighting force known as Peshmerga and international coalition with its air support have been pretty successful at slowing that ISIS advance and containing it significantly and even rolling back some of those ISIS gains.

But at the moment, ISIS is still very much in control of the city of Mosul. It is the second largest city in Iraq just to the west of where I am standing. It's around that city that Kurdish fighters are trying very to circle the city and cut it off from ISIS-controlled territory, across the border in Syria, choke ISIS out -- that's the strategy.

Despite that and despite their success, the pressure they have placed upon ISIS, the continuing air strikes, what we have seen from ISIS recently is its ability to still go on the offensive. Around the city of Kirkuk south of where I am standing now, there's been very intense fighting. A new front line has opened in what appears to be a real effort by ISIS to take this city given its key location on the road to Baghdad and significant oil wealth and resources as well. It has launched attacks, some of which have been repelled in recent days, but the authorities there believe that ISIS will come again.

This is a real campaign to try and take another major city in Iraq. It shows that ISIS is prepared and capable of going on the front foot, going on the offensive, despite being under tremendous pressure both on the ground and from the air.

Carol -- back to you.

COSTELLO: Phil Black -- reporting.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the Senate Armed Services Committee meeting right now grilling Ash Carter, President Obama's nomination for Defense Department chief. We'll take you back to the Hill next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Happening now, confirmation hearings under way for Ashton Carter. He's President Obama's pick to run the Pentagon. So far he's answered questions about plans to eliminate ISIS as well as the situation in Ukraine. Our senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta, live at the White House with more on this. Good morning -- Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Carol. We should point out that Defense Secretary nominee Ash Carter is expected to be confirmed. I think a good sign of that was the fact that former Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman who is a friend of the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee John McCain, introduced Ash Carter. So we're not expecting Ash Carter to get tripped up today unless he does so on his own.

But in some testimony he did make some news. He talked about how he is inclined to support sending defensive weapons to Ukrainians in their battle against those pro-Russian rebels. He also said he's not going to be speeding up Guantanamo detainee transfers under pressure from the administration. He's going to be taking those case by case.

But Carol -- obviously with what happened yesterday, the release of the video of that Jordanian pilot being burned to death by ISIS has a lot of members of that committee quizzing the expected next Defense Secretary about the administration's plans for dealing with the Islamic state.

And at one point during an exchange, Carter talked about -- I think he set an expectation there that these Iraqi security forces were being trained by American advisers right now to take back territory that's controlled by ISIS, that they could be ready to start on that battle in the coming months -- in months from now. And here's what he had to say about that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARTER: It's my understanding in the coming months, the Iraqi security forces assisted by us will begin to take back territory from ISIL. And I think you're right. It's important to get that territory back soon because you don't want them to settle in and you don't want the population to settle in to having ISIL rule them in their barbaric way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So that's key. That's something we'll be watching in the coming months as to whether or not those Iraqi security forces are capable of starting that initiative of taking back land that's controlled by ISIS. But Carol -- we obtained a questionnaire that Ash Carter submitted to this committee before this hearing this morning and he says in that questionnaire to this committee that he expects this to be a long campaign against ISIS. He's certainly not predicting that any of this is going to happen overnight -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta -- reporting live from the White House, thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a story of brutality and fear -- a journalist held captive by ISIS tells his story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: For ten months, French journalist Didier Francois was held captive by ISIS in Syria. He saw their brutality up close. Among his fellow captives: the American journalist James Foley who was brutally beheaded by the man known as Jihadi John.

Didier Francois spoke to CNN's Christiane Amanpour about his time in captivity, Foley's treatment and how a group that claims to act in the name of Islam does not even carry the Koran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How did they treat James Foley? James Foley was with you in the same cell.

DIDIER FRANCOIS, JOURNALIST RELEASED BY ISIS: Yes.

AMANPOUR: How did he get treated?

FRANCOIS: Well, again, that's what I'm saying. James was an amazing friend and hostage. I mean he never gave up. He had fantastic heart. He was great.

He was always trying to get food for the others, would ask them for some bread or some oat. When I'm asking for some bread -- a little piece bread.

You know that was when (INAUDIBLE) was asking me, "Do you need something?" He didn't expect any of us to say yes, we do need something. The answer should be known. They were inside.

But it's interesting that we need vegetables because we needed them, you know. And of course he would never be punished because that's the word they were using. I think they didn't like the fact that he was not broken. That's the reason why he was getting more beating because he was not broken.

He was still fighting in his way. He was still arguing. He was never giving way and that's why he was attracting this kind of --

AMANPOUR: Harsher punishment.

FRANCOIS: Exactly.

AMANPOUR: Did they ever talk to -- like the Jihadi John, the Beatles, some of the French Jihadis about their background, about why they were there?

FRANCOIS: Of course, I was French and maybe he's not good too. And plus they were not too much into discussing this. So (INAUDIBLE) there were provocations when they were trying to teach us --

AMANPOUR: They were trying to teach you about the Koran?

FRANCOIS: But it was more hammering, they are beating it even teaching us about the Koran because it doesn't seem to do with the Koran. We don't even have the Koran. They didn't (INAUDIBLE) to give us a Koran. It has nothing to do with Koran.

AMANPOUR: So these are not religious fanatics?

FRANCOIS: No, it is what they believe and what they think and they try to hammer into you because that's what they trust. It has nothing to do with Korans. It's their way of looking at things.

AMANPOUR: You came across two of the most notorious and the most wanted Jihadi John but also (INAUDIBLE) was one of your guards. Is that correct?

FRANCOIS: Yes, he was.

AMANPOUR: He obviously went on to kill people at the Jewish museum.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: You can see the rest of that online. It's fascinating. Francois was released in April of last year. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: This is a live look at the city of Boston. And you see those buses rolling in where they are filled with Super Bowl champions. The New England Patriots -- yes, after a one-day delay, fans are out in force to celebrate the Patriots fourth Super Bowl win. Take a look at those people waiting in frigid cold just to get a glimpse of their heroes. Jason Carroll is among them. He joins us live now with more. Hi, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hey to you -- Carol. You know, the Pats fans -- they're a dedicated bunch. It doesn't matter how cold it is or how many snow piles like this are along the parade route. There are a lot of them even though the mayor is telling everyone to stay off of them. I'm wondering how that's going to work out when things get under way here.

But a lot of folks coming out. We're in a section of Boyles Street, if you look through you can see we've got about three people deep where we are, more on the other side. And as you know, they wanted things to not happen today. Actually a lot of folks wanted -- thanks very much for that.

A lot of folks wanted this parade to be actually postponed until the weekend so more kids like this could come out and enjoy things but this man decided to bring his son out here today and to enjoy everything going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's sick.

CARROLL: Oh yes, I can see. I can tell. I've had that sickness. I think we can all relate to that. I think we can all relate to that. What about the decision to postpone the parade until today? A lot of folks wanted it postponed until Saturday. Are you in agreement in terms of having it today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saturday would have been better. We're having it at all and it's a wonderful thing. No matter when.

CARROLL: It's a wonderful thing. I know a lot of folks wanted to come out here and celebrate. How about you, young man?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's great to be out here.

CARROLL: I agree with you. I agree with you.

Again, Carol, the mayor warning people to stay off the snow piles -- there are a lot of them actually along the parade route. And that's no surprise given all the snow that you guys have had. We're expecting more snow out here tomorrow.

But for now, Pats fans are excited waiting for things to get under way which should be now starting in just a few minutes, guys -- is that right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CARROLL: Are you guys ready?

CROWD: Yes.

CARROLL: See they behaved. They behaved until just that moment, Carol. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate that. Back to you. COSTELLO: I love that. I wish one day to be doing the same along the

streets of Detroit for my beloved Lions but I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

CARROLL: Good luck with that.

COSTELLO: Yes. Shush -- Jason Carroll. Thanks so much.

Check some top stories for you before I have to go. North Korea has threatened nuclear warfare against the U.S. Earlier today a state TV news anchor delivered a message warning the West that quote, "The time of the nightmare is near". The regime also says it sees no more need to negotiate with the United States and threatens to use all its military capabilities.

Cycling star Lance Armstrong has been cited with two misdemeanors after hitting a pair of parked cars. The incident took place at Aspen, Colorado after a night of partying. His girlfriend initially tried to cover for the athlete by taking the blame but police say they discovered she was lying after speaking to a valet who saw Armstrong behind the wheel. Armstrong is scheduled to appear in court next month.

Target is cashing in on the success of "50 Shades of grey" -- oh yes. The retailer is selling a line of products tied into the movie's release including massage oils, candles and others I cannot mention on morning television.

You can check them out online or in the adult health section of Target stores. I have heard it all.

Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. Another hour of NEWSROOM straight ahead.