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Video of TransAsia Crash; Middle East Outraged Over Isis Killing Pilot; Jeb Bush Talks "Reform Conservatism"; New England Patriots Celebrate Super Bowl Title

Aired February 04, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New questions this morning about strategy in the battle against ISIS. Jordan has retaliated swiftly to the murder of its pilot by the terror group. It executed two Jihadis this morning and vows it will not be intimidated by ISIS brutality.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: But at least one other member of the coalition is urging caution right now. CNN has learned that the United Arab Emirates has suspended its air campaign, its airstrikes, for now at least.

Let's bring in Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, you have been looking at this. What more are you hearing about this move by the UAE? Because it sure appears to be a response, a reaction, to the Jordanian pilot being taken hostage.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well Kate, John, by all accounts the UAE is expressing its concern that if one of its pilots went down that that pilot could not be rescued. Search-and-rescue aircraft are just too far away for that to happen.

I can tell that you that what U.S. officials are telling me is when the Jordanian pilot went down, he went down in a populated area. Rescue assets were quickly launched, aircraft, helicopters. He was picked up within minutes by ISIS fighters.

It's a fact that there is tremendous risk in these air operations to pilots either from being shot down or going down due to mechanical trouble, which is what did happen to the Jordanian pilot when his plane went down. They do everything they can to get to them in time but it can be very tough.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Barbara Starr, thank you so much. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us.

It could be a troubling development, obviously something the U.S. military cares very much about.

BERMAN: If this is the game changer and if there is outrage in these countries that we're hearing there is from execution of the Jordanian pilot, maybe it will galvanize or put steel in spine of the countries.

BOLDUAN: It goes back to that question, is this a game changing moment? Unfortunately, that's exactly what we have to see.

BERMAN: Shocking video to show you of a deadly plane crash that happened just moments after takeoff in Taiwan. It was caught on a car's dashboard camera. Look at that. Just look at that. A TransAsia flight hurdles out of control. Watch the wing. It clips a taxi cab and then the bridge and then the pair goes out of frame and crashes down into a river.

BOLDUAN: The crash killed at least 26 people. Also pretty amazingly there are at least 15 survivors from this crash. Some were able to walk away from the crash. Others with injuries. Crews are still there on the scene looking for what they believe are 17 missing passengers at this point.

Let's discuss how this is possible and what we see in this. CNN aviation analyst, Mary Schiavo, is joining us now.

Mary, it's great to see you.

We have amazing video that we could almost go frame by frame. I want to get your initial take on what you see. Why would a plane make a roll like that and head toward a river like that do you think?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: The first thing I noticed is the left propeller wasn't turning the same as the right. It looked like a left engine failure that would cause the plane -- if the pilots weren't counteracting how they have to fly a plane, a twin engine when you lose one of the engines, it's what a plane would do. It would roll to one side and apply right rudder to counteract that but the pilot may have been aiming for the water trying to do a Miracle on the Hudson sort of landing. That's almost impossible.

BERMAN: If we can keep this picture up, you said the left propeller is not rotating or flying the same as the right propeller. Why might that be so soon after takeoff?

SCHIAVO: That's the most dangerous time for you to experience an engine failure. I understand from media over there that they did declare a may day and they had some sort of a problem with one or both of the engines. It can be from that problem with the engine. It could be the fuel selection was set wrong. It could be a problem feathering the props. They could have had a problem -- even a bird strike on takeoff is possible. Not likely with this kind of scenario. There are a lot of things that can cause it to fail. That's the most dangerous time to have an engine failure right after takeoff.

BOLDUAN: Does it surprise you at all that there are even any survivors from this? Fortunately either intentionally or just out of sheer luck, the plane missed that overpass by in large only clipping a taxi and part of the bridge that it was on.

SCHIAVO: People are amazed at the survival rate on plane crashes is over 50 percent and aircraft manufacturers are getting better because now one of the big things everyone focuses on is survivability. We increased the g-force loading on the seats from six to 10 so seat belts will hold you. Seat belts improvements on the way for those and flammability. Fire kills the most, other than in the recent accidents where the plane fell from 35,000 feet. Most accidents they come in most at or near the airport and fire kills most so getting out is the key. More than 50 percent survive.

BERMAN: I have never flown in or out of Taipei but it looks like a populated area with high rise buildings not far from where the plane took off. At this point cities can't move their airports. Does this point to danger of some of the locations of these airports in different cities?

SCHIAVO: Absolutely. That's been something that the United States has struggled with and when we build new airports, which doesn't happen too often because it's expensive, we put them out and away from the cities. Denver international is an example. What the U.S. tries to do is we want to have areas that are overrun areas or overshoot areas or if you fail on takeoff there's somewhere to go. The old Hong Kong airport was a heart-stopping experience and they literally built a new one out on the water. That has to happen in the future but older airports are stuck and cities that surround them.

BERMAN: There are times when I get speechless watching this. Sorry for the halting talk here in a way. Every time we see this happen, Mary, it's just stunning.

BOLDUAN: They have to figure out exactly what happened and why it happened. That's what the investigation is going to be under way. First and foremost are there anymore victims? Are there anymore survivors? They are on the scene looking for that right now.

Mary Schiavo, thanks.

BERMAN: Coming up, the killing of the Jordanian pilot outraged nations and outraged people around the world, including in the Middle East. So what happens now? What will the war against ISIS be like tomorrow? The next day? If there is this new outrage, will this change the situation? Christiane Amanpour comes and gives us her thoughts.

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BOLDUAN: Saudi Arabia is joining the growing outrage condemning the killing of the Jordanian pilot by ISIS. According to Reuters, the Saudi king called it a heinous crime which contradicts the tolerance of our noble religion.

BERMAN: Want to bring in our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.

Thank you so much for being with Thank you so much for being with us.

We heard from the Saudi king and we heard from the Jordanian king and leadership of many of these countries. If there is this outrage among the leadership, if this is the turning point that some people suggest it might be, if ISIS overreached, what do you expect will happen now?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, I think that this coalition will continue as it has for the past several months. I don't think the bombing is going to stop and I don't think Jordan is going to stop being part of it. I mean, you never know, but certainly, Jordanian officials from the seniors down to former foreign ministers, et cetera, have said in the wake of the threats against the pilot and now of his death, they remain committed to fighting this kind of terrorism.

This obviously is a major shock for Jordan. It hits right to the heart of them. The king is not just king but head of the tribes and commander-in-chief of the military forces and he has always had to play a very delicate balancing act between his allegiance and alliance with anti-terrorist coalition, his alliance with the West, and also understanding that in some parts of the Arab world and some parts of the tribal parts of Jordan, there is a discomfort with these kinds of wars. If he can persuade people now it's more dangerous to stop being part of the coalition than to continue being part of the coalition, then that's what is going to happen going forward.

BERMAN: I wasn't even talking about the possibility of withdrawing from the coalition because based on the language coming out of Jordan over the last several hours, revenge, it's been much more bellicose than we've heard before. I was curious if there was more they could do or if they could increase their role.

AMANPOUR: That's also interesting. What they have done is sworn revenge and, to be frank, the father of the pilot has said, "I don't just want these two who were executed this morning. I want ISIS to be annihilated." Right now the father who is part of a very prominent tribe in the southern part of Jordan is saying what the government wants to hear. In other words, go for it.

What can they really do? Jordan is an integral part of intelligence sharing with the United States and obviously it has much more human intelligence on the ground. It's much more linked with the Iraqi tribes, et cetera. Right on the border of these countries. When it comes to being in the air, it's a junior partner. Let's face it. The United States is doing the heavy lifting. So what can it do greater and more? Unclear at this point. But the fact that it will continue is very important. And I think that we're hearing certainly from the usual leaders in this part of the world at condemning what happened. Very importantly several imams, including imams that come out of Syria and who already put fatwas on al Baghdadi, who is the leader of ISIS.

You know, the real question is --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Sorry. Go ahead.

BOLDUAN: To that point, Christiane, if when you -- I just keep returning to this since I just recently watched the video. If a gruesome video -- that doesn't even do it justice -- doesn't convince Arab nations to come together and this is a fight worth fighting, if burning someone alive, anyone, but someone from a prominent Jordanian tribe, family, doesn't convince Jordan and other Arab allies that this is a fight worth fighting, what is going to convince them, you know?

AMANPOUR: So far, they seem convinced. They aren't the problem. The problem are the psychopaths who keep joining what's a death cult. And let's not forget it. And now you are having more and more people calling them that. They've sunk to a terrible low.

I would also say one needs to hold Saudi Arabia to account as well. Yes, the new king has come out and condemned this, but this is the kind of horrendous ideology that's come out of the extreme hard-line wing of Islam, which has its roots and home in Saudi Arabia. And for decades, the Saudis have traded stability inside for palming off and farming out that kind of extremism and they fought their own battles against extremism at home, but too often these people have been able to flourish outside their borders. This is a major problem that has to be confronted.

BERMAN: A difference between words and action and we'll see if that difference remains over the next few days.

Christiane Amanpour, thank you for being with us. Appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Taking a look back at home. A different kind of GOP presidential candidate. That's the image that Jeb Bush wants to send to party faithful as he takes the stage in less than an hour. This isn't just taking the stage. This is maybe the unveiling of potentially a campaign message. We'll see. That's coming up.

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BOLDUAN: Minutes from now, likely 2016 presidential candidate, Jeb Bush, will be making his major policy address for the first time speaking at the Detroit Economic Club, a prominent venue in presidential politics.

BERMAN: The former governor is expected to outline his ideas on what he calls "reform conservatism." I'm old enough to remember a different guy named Bush talking about compassionate conservatism. That aside, he'll also discuss his so-called Right to Rise economic plan. Designed to boost the middle class.

We're joined by CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, live for us in Detroit.

Dana, one thing I know about Detroit is it's not Iowa or New Hampshire. So why?

(LAUGHTER)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, it is not Iowa or New Hampshire. I remember back when that other Bush was running, this was a swing state. Not so much anymore. But it has nothing to do with that. The reason why Jeb Bush and his aides asked the Detroit Economic Club to come and speak here is because of the economic symbol that is here and the fact that Detroit has been in such dire straits for so long, even during economic booms nationwide. So he is going to push since we're doing some Bush history and metaphors here, the vision thing.

For the first time, he's going to really talk about what his vision is for any potential campaign. Talked about "reform conservatism." He's also going to talk about his theme, the Right to Rise, really trying to play up the middle class, those left behind.

Here's an excerpt -- one of the excerpts that his aides put out. He's going to say this, "The recovery has been everywhere, but in the family paychecks, the American dream has become a mirage for far too many. So the central question we face here in Detroit and across America is this, can we restore that dream, that moral promise that each generation can do better?"

So basically what he is trying to sort of in a nutshell do is to set the tone, not so much, I don't believe, in the specifics of how he intends to do that economic policy but in terms of the theme and, as you said, as the message, and to differentiate himself from other potential Republican candidates. Wants to give a positive tone, wants to set himself apart from everybody else. I think that is the fundamental goal that he has today.

BOLDUAN: More testing the waters for a potential campaign in terms of his theme and his message rather than, we're not going to be hearing policy prescriptions on exactly how to help the middle class improve?

BASH: That's exactly right. But, remember, with the history of the Republican party and Republican presidential candidates -- you don't have to go that far back in history -- less than four years ago, Mitt Romney did have a big problem reaching out to the middle class, reaching out to people who were not doing well with the economy because they felt that he didn't connect, the 47 percent moment, the list goes on and on. So that is a big thing that it seems as though he is going to not so subtly try to do, say that he is the anti- Romney.

One thing I will point out though, we are in Detroit and the big issue here over the past many years has been the auto bailouts. Democrats are having a field day pointing out, he opposed the auto bailout, the government bailout, which many Republicans did as well, but it turned out to be pretty successful in the long run.

BERMAN: I've had about 6,000 Democrats on Twitter informed me of that over the last several hours.

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BOLDUAN: This is really the first speech of the rest of Jeb Bush's life, the first time he addresses the public since Mitt Romney withdrew, a big, big moment for him. I know I'll be watching.

Dana, thanks so much.

Another big moment today in Boston.

BOLDUAN: What would that be, John?

BERMAN: A parade in Boston. The New England Patriots celebrating their fourth Super Bowl title. You can see it there. The streets of Boston, the duck boats, the fans. We'll take you there live next.

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BERMAN: Live pictures of glory. That, my friends --

BOLDUAN: Lay it on thick.

BERMAN: -- is Boston.

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BERMAN: All those duck boats, the New England Patriots, the Super Bowl champions. People flooding the cold streets, a day later than originally planned, to celebrate their Super Bowl title.

BOLDUAN: And they've got a whole lot of duck boats there. That's my big question. What is the history behind the duck boats? It's the fourth duck boat parade for the Patriots in the past 14 years. The team's first since 2005, though.

Jason Carroll is along the parade route, if you will.

Jason, rather than standing on snow and being cold, I'm sure no one there even feels the cold at this point.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can't even hear you.

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(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: I get that a lot.

CARROLL: I know you're asking a question. I know you're asking me something.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

CARROLL: Robert Kraft, the reason why everyone was screaming is Robert Kraft just went by with the trophy in hand. The crowd just went crazy.

I have to show you something here as the parade gets under way. Not snowing here but folks are hopping on top of the snow piles because where else do you go when you have all this snow?

I have some die-hard Pats fans with me.

(CHEERING)

CARROLL: A lot of folks wanted the parade to be held this weekend. But doing it today instead, what do you think?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So excited about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's beautiful out.

CARROLL: A lot of folks are also surprised that so many of you came out today. It's cold, but it's not that cold. But I guess not cold to a dedicated Pats fan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely not!

CARROLL: Who are you looking forward to seeing most?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tom Brady.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tom Brady.

(SHOUTING)

CARROLL: Clearly, a lot of loud music here. You get a front-row seat to the parade going by.

Hey, guys.

It's been a lot of fun out here, as you know. Everyone here has wanted something to celebrate. The snow, more snow expected tomorrow. They finally have something to celebrate here as thousands line Boyle Street to take part in the victory parade.

Back to you guys.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Jason Carroll standing on the tops of street signs with these very, I would say, measured women there to cheer and to see Tom Brady and Julian Edelman.

BOLDUAN: Where is Malcolm Butler?

BERMAN: Malcolm Butler is in the sixth duck boat.

BOLDUAN: Is that good or bad?

BERMAN: It's all very good.

Jason Carroll can't hear us at all --

BOLDUAN: Have fun, Jason.

BERMAN: But he's being a great sport. Just wave.

BOLDUAN: Give me a short and skinny. Why the duck boats? BERMAN: Duck boats were around in there in the late '90s. It just

became a tradition. It wasn't just the Patriots. The Red Sox have had three World Series duck boat, Patriots, the Celtics, the Bruins. I can describe each team in detail if you like, online.

BOLDUAN: I had not planned to ask you that. Impressive.

Look at that. Something to celebrate. There's more snow on the way though.

BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.