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Plane Crash Caught on Tape; Deadly Train Crash

Aired February 04, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI INTERROGATOR: Instead, they're being killed slowly. So that's what they are trying to do.

They are trying to get an overreaction, for us to have that shock and awe moment, because this is strategy of killing them with 1,000 cuts is bleeding that organization to death.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And then the key then for the world or the West is not to overreact, right to your point.

SOUFAN: We should not have a short-term overreaction. We have a long -- we should have a long-term, sustained attack against that organization.

BALDWIN: Ali Soufan, thank you.

SOUFAN: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And we continue on, top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Want to begin actually with this video of this plane crash that is just beyond belief here. It's a crash that we now know has claimed the lives of more than half of the people on board, while others walked away. The number killed now stands at 31 people, and a total of 58 were on board. I have seen this so many times today. It's tough to look at.

A total of 58 people were on board this TransAsia flight headed to a coastal town in China. Its doomed conclusion was caught, as you're seeing here, on this driver's dash cam. This is video obtained by our Taiwan affiliate TVBS. And perhaps, as stunning as incredulous as what you're looking at here, the aftermath and the fact that people survived, you're looking at them, this Toddler, and a number of others among at least 15 survivors, some are bloodied, some are bruised.

But they made it. They are sitting in this rescue raft all on their own. They made it out. Again, we have the crash for you in slower motion, so you can see exactly how it turns. And one of the questions is why it turned. Right?

This is how the ATR-72, this twin-engine plane, hits a taxi. That was a taxi. The people inside were just injured, amazingly enough. Clips the bridge, goes over the side of the river into the city Taipei, in the river, thank goodness.

The civil authority in the region has now grounded all ATR-72s.

Let me turn to Shawn Pruchnicki, a former flight accident investigator.

Shawn, welcome.

SHAWN PRUCHNICKI, FORMER FLIGHT ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: Hello.

BALDWIN: When we look at just the plane collision, and there are so many pieces of this and you're the expert. You explain this to me. But when you talk to some people, it looks like one the propellers isn't quite turning like the other. Can you look at the video with me and tell me what you see?

PRUCHNICKI: You're exactly right, Brooke.

It is very challenging to be able to look at this video and talk about propeller motion and what that actually indicates, because there's certain distortions with video and how propellers move. Sometimes, they even look like they're moving backwards, when in fact they're not.

So, really challenging to do to tell. I think what is intriguing is the mention of a possible engine failure, is my understanding?

BALDWIN: A possibility. But we still -- no one knows yet. Right? They have the flight data recorders but until they go actually really go through that analysis, no one even knows.

I was even asking Richard Quest, our aviation correspondent, when you see, it looks like it appears to really turn and ditch. I was wondering if the pilot did that on purpose to avoid some of the buildings, but you can't really know yet, correct?

PRUCHNICKI: No, you're exactly right.

We can't tell, but what I can tell you is by watching this video, what this does very much look like is the airplane is stalling, in other words, aerodynamically stalling. These type of airplanes, when that happens, that's exactly how it looks. The airplane is at a nose-high altitude, it appears to be very slow and it starts rolling off steadily in one direction until it impacts the bridge and the taxi.

That looks like an aerodynamic stall. But you're exactly right. We need the boxes to be able to tell for sure. My understanding is they have already been recovered.

BALDWIN: Right. That's exactly right. What is it, when we talk about 15 people who survived, how is it that those people survived? Was it based upon where they were on the plane or simply luck?

PRUCHNICKI: It certainly appears that luck does play a role, but there is some important physics behind this.

When an airplane strikes the ground, survivability is related all to the amount of energy that is dissipated, where that energy, in other words, where the aircraft strikes, the angle that it strikes and where you're seated. Fortunately, the airplane was fairly slow, impacted shallow water. That makes recovery.

So it's all about the initial dissipation of energy, where you're seated in the airplane, and if you have what we call survivable space. If you have those things going for you, then you're well on your way to possibly escaping that event.

BALDWIN: Shawn, let me ask the obvious question, which is, what is going on with these different, you know, Asian airline crashes in, what, the last year? I mean, I was looking at some of the research and I know they have some of the best airlines out there and some of the worst.

PRUCHNICKI: Well, you're exactly right.

This is quite baffling to many in the industry. And I think what we have to think about is we have to sit back, look across all of these events and you have to realize we're still really early in all of these. Right? All of these events are quite early in the investigation.

BALDWIN: Right.

PRUCHNICKI: I think once we get these finished, what needs to be done is to be able to take a step back, look at the organizational issues, the regulatory issues, and I'm really thinking those investigations might provide some leverage for change.

BALDWIN: Let's hope so. Shawn Pruchnicki, thank you.

PRUCHNICKI: Thanks.

BALDWIN: What could possibly be as callous as burning a man alive? Cheering as you're watching it.

CNN has just learned that a new video is currently circulating showing ISIS supporters gathered round watching Muath al-Kaseasbeh's revolting murder. They're cheering. In fact, a child we're told at one point in this video saying he too would have burned the pilot himself if he had had the chance.

At the same time, Jordan is vowing revenge, a "relentless war against ISIS." Already, Jordan has executed by hanging the Iraqi suicide bomber whose freedom ISIS had demanded along with another jihadi prisoner both with ties to the originators of this terror group, but this Jordanian pilot's father said that's not enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAFI AL-KASEASBEH, FATHER OF PILOT (through translator): I demand that revenge should be bigger than executing prisoners. I demand that this criminal organization Da'esh should be annihilated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: When his mother learned of what happened to her son, she ran into the streets crying, ripping off her head scarf.

Joining me now, Rukmini Callimachi, correspondent for "The New York Times."

Rukmini, thank you so much for coming back to the show.

RUKMINI CALLIMACHI, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: I want to begin with just some of the incredible details you and your colleagues at the paper had with this agonizing reaction from his mother and also information about how his wife found out and how she reacted to this.

CALLIMACHI: Yes, indeed.

"The New York Times" had a staffer who happened to be present inside the family's home at the moment when the news broke that the young lieutenant, the air force pilot had been killed. Initially, relatives rushed to try to switch off the TV set, so that the mother and the wife would not find out.

They found out anyway. They saw an alert on their smartphone, but for a very long time, they didn't know exactly how he had died. It was really a trying moment, a lot of pain for this family and a lot of pain for the nation of Jordan.

BALDWIN: We will be talking to a Jordanian American a little later on how this has really hit this country, obviously hit home.

My next question to you, because we have had you on before and your phenomenal reporting about some of the conditions these prisoners experience being held by these ISIS militants, and one of my first thoughts, as horrible as it is, is I'm wondering if these other prisoners are made aware, you know, after the fact, after this callous murder of this pilot, do you think these captors go back to these prisoners and tell them what they did?

CALLIMACHI: You know, we don't -- we haven't been able to speak to anybody who has been with any of the hostages who have recently been beheaded, so we don't know what they're telling them.

What we do know from the hostages who were released and who got out, the most recent of them were released in June of last year, is that they underwent numerous mock executions and that their captors were always telling them we're going to kill you, we're going to kill you, et cetera, as a part of the psychological game to try to break them.

So based on that, it seems logical that they perhaps would have shown them videos of James Foley's execution or the execution of the others as a way to torment them. But of course we don't yet know that for sure.

BALDWIN: That's what worries me just thinking of the knowledge that these prisoners would have. And then again as far as reports of 20 some hostage still in ISIS captivity, do we know who they are? CALLIMACHI: We reported last year that they had at one time a total

of 23, almost all Western hostages. Only one of them was not a Westerner.

Fifteen of those people got out, allegedly for ransom. What we know is they now continue to have at least three internationally prominent hostages. One of them has been named. His name is John Cantlie. He's a young British man, the journalist who was captured with James Foley and has now been forced to essentially do propaganda for the group.

He's been seen doing YouTube videos, essentially spewing their point of view. The two others are two young women. One of them is an American aid worker. The other one is from a country that we are not identifying. And at the request of their families, they are not being named out of fear for their safety.

BALDWIN: Rukmini, thank you so much for joining me. Just thinking of these people and who knows what they know at this point in time. Appreciate it.

CALLIMACHI: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, you will hear from a man who survived being a prisoner of ISIS. Find out what he said his captors did not speak about, namely, mention at all the Koran.

Plus, a train collides with an SUV, causing the deadliest crash in the history of this New York rail system. We will talk to someone who was on board that train and survived.

And in the murder trial of NFL star Aaron Hernandez, the victim's mother takes the stand today and it gets a little awkward from the very first question. We will show you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We have just gotten word here from a U.S. official that Jordan wants to play now this bigger role in the coalition airstrikes against ISIS, this as King Abdullah vows his nation's revenge on the terrorists who burned its fighter pilot alive with -- and I'm quoting him -- "earthshaking and relentless," both words from the king of Jordan here.

Joining me Natasha Tynes, a Jordanian-American freelance journalist and founder of the times Media Group.

Natasha, thank you so much for joining me.

NATASHA TYNES, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: I thought it was so important to have someone on with Jordanian ties who can help us walk through just the cultural reaction to this. And you were saying to me, you have been on the phone with people back home since this began. The news has made you sick to your stomach.

TYNES: Well, Brooke, what's happening now in Jordan that, first, everyone is afraid. You know, they're in shock over what happened to a man that they saw as their hero. They're afraid of what is coming.

And they also want revenge. They don't want the blood of this 27- year-old pilot to go in vain. Also, what is happening now is that in spite of the differences that Jordanians had in the years previous, now Jordanians are uniting, they're unifying all of them together against this enemy that now they're facing that is called ISIS, or Da'esh in Arabic.

And one example of this unity that this morning, there was an impromptu rally in front of the Jordanian airport where King Abdullah cut short his visit from D.C. and came back home. And people went to the street with no prior planning just to greet him, just to tell him, we are with you. Let's fight this one enemy together.

BALDWIN: So we have seen the people, both as you describe in D.C., but also over in Amman, chanting revenge, but my question to you then would be, I'm like, every single analyst I had on this show, I was asking, do you think part of this revenge will be the expedited execution of that failed Iraqi suicide bomber who is on death row, all of them said no way.

And we know what happened, you know, in the hours since. She was hanged. Are you surprised by that response in Jordan?

TYNES: Well, I was not surprised, honestly.

I saw a report about the repercussions of killing Muath al-Kaseasbeh, that one of the repercussions if he was killed, that ISIS prisoners would be killed. This did not come as a surprise. And also, Jordan had to do something in order to show people that they're actually serious about their fight.

And, plus, both of these people were already condemned to death. So, it was a matter of time of putting them to death. And before that, people were against the death penalty. That was being put on hold for a few years, until last month, but many people now are saying, oh, we're with it, we want to avenge the killing of our hero.

So even the voices that were against the death penalty, many of them -- there are still some people objecting to it, but the majority are with it.

BALDWIN: The majority are with it. I was wondering what some of your friends and family members have said.

What about obviously the next step? We're reporting that Jordan will be taking a more active role in the war, specifically stepping up airstrikes, but I know, Natasha, one of your fears is potentially ISIS launching attacks inside Jordan.

TYNES: I mean, that's -- I think that's the fear of many Jordanians who live in Jordan and abroad as well, who have families there.

What's happening now is that the war feel has shifted a bit because it's becoming a personal war. It's Jordan vs. ISIS. And it's how is ISIS going to retaliate? Are they going to launch attacks inside Jordan after Jordan amps up its airstrikes? So there's this fear and it happened in Jordan with -- 10 years ago with al Qaeda attacks inside the hotels in Jordan that killed scores of Jordanians.

So, the fear is there, but at the same time, I'm also hearing opinions of people say, no, we're not worried. We know our army is strong. We know our insurgents units are strong. So, we stand united and we're going to overcome this.

There is fear, but at the same time, there are voices who are trying to reassure people, telling them that we're a strong country with strong army and strong intelligence. We can handle this.

BALDWIN: Jordanian-American journalist Natasha Tynes, thank you.

TYNES: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Coming up, a survivor's story. I will talk with a passenger who was trapped during this terrible train wreck in New York, how he escaped and what happened in the moments after. This is the deadliest in this train's history.

Plus, the final moments of this plane crash caught on camera. We will talk to a former FAA safety inspector about what these few frames of video might reveal and why some, including a toddler, managed to survive. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Investigators right now on the scene of this collision between a New York commuter train and this SUV. Transit officials say last night's Metro North collision is now officially the deadliest in the rail system's history.

We're told this happened when the SUV driver stopped on this railroad crossing, the gate came down, trapped her car and that's when she apparently hopped out, tried to lift the gate herself, but soon after, she climbed back in her SUV, and that's when the train hit her car.

The impact set off this deadly fire that investigators say practically melted the first rail car, killing five passengers inside. The SUV driver was also killed.

With me now, one of the passengers who was just a couple cars back from that.

This is Justin Kaback. And he's joining me now in New York.

Good to see you.

JUSTIN KABACK, SURVIVOR: Good to see you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And what a frightening night for you on something that's normally just a usual in and out of the city.

KABACK: Absolutely. It was very terrifying, honestly.

BALDWIN: So you couldn't even remember, two, maybe three cars back from that initial car.

KABACK: Yes, I think I was the third car back from -- the third car back.

BALDWIN: What do you remember?

KABACK: Basically, I didn't really feel a bump or a jolt on the impact of the vehicle. I honestly -- I think also the people around me didn't realize what was going on until the train actually came to a complete stop.

The engine caught, the air caught, everyone went off except the lights, and it was like dead silence in there. At that point, the intercom came on for the conductor, which it cut in and then cut right out. And he didn't say anything. So everybody was kind of in limbo waiting to hear what was going on.

Maybe 30 seconds later, somebody from the second car, the car in front of us, opened up the door and he's like, they smell gas up front. We have got to make our way to the back. At that point, I still didn't even know that we struck a vehicle. I just thought maybe something was mechanically wrong with the train.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KABACK: So I grabbed my belongings and I started to make my way back with a group of people, which I didn't really look back, but I believe everybody got up and started to make their way back.

BALDWIN: When people are saying, we smell gas, that's going to get everyone up and out of the train.

KABACK: Absolutely, yes, very quickly.

BALDWIN: And so everyone is quickly trying to move towards the back of the train because are the doors not open, you have to go all the way back for them to break them open for you to get out?

KABACK: I guess you can, all the doors open, but we didn't know if we should get out or not. They didn't tell us.

So we started making our way back to which point they came on the intercom system, the conductor, and said that the train has struck a vehicle that was on the track. They gave us no other information. They didn't say if there was a fire, if there wasn't in a fire. They didn't tell us to remain seated and calm or to evacuate. So I think nobody really knew what to do.

We just kind of continued to push our way to the back of the train until there was no more room to go. And, I mean, I was in the middle of a car with people crammed in front of me and people crammed in back of me and at that point, we were kind of just waiting for instructions.

BALDWIN: When did you realize that, oh, my God, this car's on fire?

KABACK: So once we were kind of waiting for instructions standing there in the middle of this car, I noticed that people were outside, passengers were outside of the car from the front of the train walking through the snow towards the back.

And I'm thinking to myself, you know, I saw people with their cell phones taking pictures. And I remember looking to the woman behind me and saying, if they're taking pictures of something up front, probably not a good sign, to which point, somebody outside yelled in, "The train is on fire."

BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness.

KABACK: That's all they said. A small group of us heard that comment from the outside of the train, where we kind of continued to try to make our way back to the back, at which point, there were passengers sitting down asking questions, why is everybody coming to the back of the train?

(CROSSTALK)

KABACK: And I know that the people that heard that the train was on fire didn't want to announce it, because this is a packed train during rush hour. If you yell fire, everybody is getting up in a mass panic and pushing their way to the exits.

(CROSSTALK)

KABACK: So, everybody was kind of like, oh, we smell gas. We don't know. It's wait to see, to which point I was maybe on the train for 10, 15 minutes after the stop, when finally...

BALDWIN: And then you see it.

KABACK: Correct, yes, when finally somebody breaks open the glass to the emergency door and one by one, we start kind of going out and we still had no direction on what to do.

They still didn't tell us if we should evacuate or not. So I think half the people were trying to get off the train. The other half is like, well, let's wait. We don't know what's going on. I know that one gentleman was helping people off the train because it was a far drop.

It was probably a good six feet. It was eye level to me when I climbed down. It was slippery. It was wet.

BALDWIN: The snow.

KABACK: The snow. You're landing in 12 inches of snow on grass.

BALDWIN: How incredibly frightening for you.

KABACK: That's the main thing for me.

I know there was an elderly gentleman that was fairly close to me in the car. And I'm thinking to myself, how is this gentleman going to do that climb that I just did, when I had difficulty with it?

BALDWIN: I'm so glad you're OK and so many other people are as well. Sadly, six people are not, the deadliest in Metro North history.

I'm glad you're all right and thank you so much for coming.

(CROSSTALK)

KABACK: Thank you very much. You too, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Nice to meet you, despite the circumstances.

Coming up next, the stunning video of a plane crashing into a river, you see it here. This is something we rarely, rarely see, these kinds of images. What might have happened to cause this and what we know about survivors? Yes, people survived this.

Also ahead, developments in the murder trial of former New England Patriots star Aaron Hernandez. We know today that the victim's mother -- here she was -- she took the stand. But it is what the judge had to say to her ahead of time that's raising some eyebrows.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)