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Dr. Drew

Whitney Houston`s Daughter Fights For Her Life; The Kardashians Speak About Bruce Jenner`s Transitioning; The Man Accused Of Killing The Real American Sniper On Trial

Aired February 04, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Whitney Houston`s daughter fights for her life, while the family fights over her. The Kardashians speak about

Bruce Jenner. Is he transitioning? And, the man accused of killing the real American sniper on trial.

Let us get started now with the most tweeted story of the night, Bobby Kristina Brown remains in a coma. He father, Bobby Brown, apparently does

not want her so-called husband anywhere near his daughter. He told the world that Nick Gordon, the so-called husband and his daughter were never

married.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA HOLLAND, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ROSWELL POLICE DEPARTMENT: Bobbi Kristina`s husband found her face down in a bathtub in the bathroom of

their home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Bobby Brown does have a problem with Nick Gordon. He is not interested in Nick Gordon seeing Bobbi Kristina at the

hospital .

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Whitney Houston took him when he was 12 years old and raised him as if he was her son.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Pictures of her with Nick Gordon whom she tweeted about marrying last year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY (voice-overe): That is a picture of a wedding ring. And, yet, just hours ago, CNN received this statement from Bobby Brown. Bobbi Kristina is

not and has never been married to Nick Gordon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): The family has not been supportive of this relationship. They do not believe that Nick Gordon is a good

influence on Bobbi Kristina. They see him sort of as a hanger-on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us Vanessa Barnett, Hiphollywood.com; Sam Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu!; Nicci Gilbert-Daniels, R&B Artist/Producer. She,

actually, knows Bobbi Kristina and was Whitney shortly before her death. Nicci, why did Bobby Brown released that statement?

NICCI GILBERT-DANIELS, R&B ARTIST/PRODUCER: I think that Bobby Brown is just being a father who loves his daughter very, very much. I think that

Bobby Brown is concerned most with her healing and not all the pomp and circumstance surrounding whether or not she is married and what happens if

something happens. Bobby just wants the world to know, "I am her father. I am here for her. I am the only man she needs in her life at this

moment." And, I agree with him on that.

PINSKY: And, then she -- has he had issues with this guy all along?

GILBERT-DANIELS: I cannot answer that question for you, Dr. Drew. I do not know. I would assume like any father -- I mean, you know -- And this

kind of reminds me of Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston.

PINSKY: Yes.

GILBERT-DANIELS: It is the same sort of, you know, story. So, if anybody could empathize with this scenario, I think it would be Bobby. And, if

Bobby is saying that, that is not the case, then I am going to ride with Bobby Brown and I am assuming that there is a reason for that.

PINSKY: And, Vanessa, you actually have a personal Bobbi Kristina story. Tell me about that.

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. actually, days before she passed away --

PINSKY: Before Whitney or --

BARNETT: Before Whitney passed away, I was at the Beverly Hilton. And, we were there, you know, Clive Davis gala, the day before the Grammys, since

the big event in this year -- The year of that Whitney Passed, she was there. She was talking to Monica and Brandy as they were rehearsing for

the gala.

And, you know, seeing her -- it is Whitney Houston. You are in shock. You are elated. She is an icon. And, seeing her, you know, she did look a

little hurried. You know, her and Bobbi were -- Bobbi Kristina were arm in arm and they were kind of scurrying through the hotel.

And, she did look a little just rushed and disheveled. But, there was a lot going on. There was so much happening that weekend, and it was just --

you know, just to see her, it was a shock.

PINSKY: Let me ask you this. Given what you saw that day and given how this all has played out, could you have an imagined that on that day?

BARNETT: No. And, I will tell you, when I got the news, I was still in shock. I do not know her personally, so I never want to act as if this

affected me on that level. I do not want to take that away from her family.

But, when I was told the news, as someone who works in the entertainment, I denied it. I said, "No. I just saw her. No. The party is tonight. She

will be there. This cannot be true." And, so, even though seeing her -- and she was in a really not frantic state, but a very hurried rush state.

I still did not think that she would not be there the next day.

PINSKY: And, Sam, there is something about Bobbi Kristina`s inheritance in the news now. What is that all about?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU!: OK. So, as far as her inheritance go, she received a tenth of that inheritance when she turned

21. She will receive a sixth of that when she turns 25 and then the remainder of her inheritance at age 30. But, Dr. Drew, I am seeing some

speculation on Twitter right now in regard to why Bobby Brown made that statement --

PINSKY: Tell me.

SCHACHER: In regard to Bobbi Kristina not being married to Nick her boyfriend. They believe it is because, God forbid, if Bobbi Kristina were

to pass away, and she was married or the public thought she was married to nick, then he would be entitled to that fortune.

PINSKY: That is interesting. I got a clip of Bobbi Kristina`s "Lifetime" reality show in which she and Nick explain their -- I guess this pretty

complicated relationship. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBI KRISTINA BROWN: We were best friends long, long, long ago. Long time ago. And, now I am in love with him.

NICK GORDON, BOYFRIEND OF BOBBI KRISTINA: I was never adopted, nor am I her blood brother. We just really care about each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Nicci, I wonder if you -- you have known the family. I wonder if you had any thoughts about the relationship between this two.

GILBERT-DANIELS: You know what? Honestly, when I look at Bobbi Kristina and Nick Gordon, I see -- I know this sounds melodramatic and over the top,

and people probably are going to let me have it, but I think about Romeo and Juliet.

I mean I think about the fact that you know, he was around while her mother was there. He maybe what the only thing she has left over. We know that

Whitney was fond of him, obviously, because Whitney had him around since he was 12 years old. So, this maybe Bobbi Kristina`s way of holding on to one

of the things that she knew her mother loved and she grew to love. And, I just -- you know?

PINSKY: I get what you are saying. But, Nicci, I got to tell you, Romeo and Juliet --

GILBERT-DANIELS: That was a tragic story.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: -- did not work out so good for them. And, things do not seem to be working out so great here. Then there is Max Lomas.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Right, Sam. Tell me about this guy.

SCHACHER: Yes. So, we talked a little bit about him last night. He is 24. This is the guy that found Bobbi Kristina face down in the bathtub.

And, he is not the greatest influence to have around her, Dr. Drew.

So, back in 2011 and 2012, he was arrested for domestic violence charges. Just a few weeks ago, offers -- officers were called to his house because

his girlfriend`s family had said that he was holding her against her will by drugging her, so she would not run away.

Now, when officers arrived at the home, they did arrest him because they found possession of a firearm, possession of marijuana with intent to

distribute, possession of a controlled substance, which was Xanax. Now, these are all charges, though, we have to say. He was not convicted and

has not been convicted.

PINSKY: And, in fact, that guy`s lawyer just spoke to CNN. He provided interesting information. Take a look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIP A. HOLLOWAY, MAX LOMAS` ATTORNEY: Mr. Lomas was the person who initially found Ms. Brown contrary to what has been reported. He was the

one that found her in the bathtub. He was the one who called 911. He is the one who cares about her well-being.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: What made your client go to the house in the first place?

ATTY. HOLLOWAY: My client and Ms. Brown have been lifelong friends for many, many years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Vanessa, are these pieces fitting together for you?

BARNETT: Nothing is fitting together for me.

PINSKY: Right.

BARNETT: It is very odd. I feel like these are people, especially this young man -- you know of course he is innocent until proven guilty. But,

there are just a laundry list of things that no one at that young age, that Bobbi Kristina is what? 21 I believe. Those two people just should not be

around each other. The things that he is up to do, just not seem like that young lady should be anywhere near that.

PINSKY: You know what? I have thoughts here, too. I was thinking that Romeo and Juliet maybe an apt to analogy Nicci, and what is happening now

to poor Bobbi Kristina. I have to read between the lines. Again, we cannot confirm nothing, but I was just fishing around the web today on

various sites before I came on the air here.

And, boy, what I am reading looks disastrous for poor Bobbi Kristina. They are saying things like, "It is up to the family how long she stays on life

support." And, this is all signs -- there is again, reading between the lines that there is not much if any neurological function left.

And, the more this goes on -- again, I will remind people we just went through this with Joan Rivers. As the longer it goes, the less likely

there is of any sort of recovery. Certainly, any meaningful recovery.

Next up, what Whitney Houston told Oprah that may have a lasting affect for Bobbi Kristina.

And, later, the Kardashians and others in Bruce Jenner`s circle are apparently rallying around him and we will get back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

BOBBI KRISTINA BROWN: I heard that your dreams came true --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: All across Bobbi Kristina Brown`s social media footprint, signs of a 21-year-old looking to the future.

(BEGIN AUDIO REENACTMENT)

BOBBI KRISTINA BROWN: Hi world! Yes, I am a night owl and this is when my creative side comes out.

(END AUDIO REENACTMENT)

SCHACHER: She seems very upbeat and positive and a strong independent woman on her Twitter page.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Bobbi Kristina Brown found face down in a tub of water, bathtub. She is in a medically-induced coma tonight. I am back with the behavior

bureau. Nicci Gilber-Daniels, Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University and Leeann Tweeden, host of LA Today on AM570 Radio.

Here now is what Whitney Houston told Oprah in 2009 when asked if Bobby Brown was abusive. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITNEY HOUSTON: So, when we got back to the house -- he spit on me. He spit on me. He actually spit on me. And, my daughter was coming down the

stairs, and she saw it.

And, I took the phone and I hit him over the head with it. And, he just fell out on the floor like -- it was just drama. You know, drama -- my

daughter came down the stairs. She said, "Daddy!" You know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Oh, Leeann, the parents were physically abusing one another in front of her, spitting on her. Then the inappropriate smiling in that

interview. I mean this has profound effects on children.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, HOST OF "L.A. TODAY" ON AM570 RADIO: Of course. I think we talk about this a lot on your show, Dr. Drew. Just the effects of what

parents do and what they do not do on their children. And, here, of course, is an example of the child being exposed to this at such a young

age that sometimes that becomes norm for children.

They do not know how -- you know, somebody of the other sex should treat them in a relationship. And, a lot of times we talk about it is cyclical

where they either find relationships that mimic what they have seen in their household or that they, you know, they get involved in drugs or

alcohol or other things to try to take them into another world.

And, I just -- you know reading more today about this story, Dr. Drew, than we were talking about the other day, and knowing that there possibly -- the

police is looking for another person that might have been in the house that ran and maybe jumped over a wall. I just thought, "My God! If you have

friends like that in your life, who needs enemies." Right?

PINSKY: Right.

TWEEDEN: Because, if you are face down in a pool of water and somebody runs out because they are afraid they might get caught, every second that

you are -- you do not have oxygen to your brain does detrimental things to your life.

PINSKY: Yes. That is absolutely right. Now, Nicci, did you have any awareness that she might have been exposed to this kind of domestic

violence?

GILBERT-DANIELS: No, none whatsoever. And, I feel -- you know, I have said this from the beginning. I feel a sense of guilt because I think in

our community of singers and entertainers, you know, we all know -- we watched this three years ago happen almost to the day.

And, I just feel like I wish that I had known. I wish that I was more aware. I do not want to speculate and say that there was an abusive

situation going on. I know with a lot of young girls that happens, sometimes that happens, you know?

And, I know we get into the Whitney Houston of it all, but she is a young girl going through very normal things -- very, very normal things. And, I

know it sounds abnormal, but, you know, it is very real that, you know, sometimes young girls get into situations where they, you know, may be in a

relationship that is not great for them.

Sometimes, young girls get into situations where they may experiment, you know, with substances that they should not. I do not, necessarily, think

that this was her curse. I think Bobby Brown was able to get over it. I think Bobby Brown, was able to heal. And, she is still Bobby Brown`s

daughter too.

PINSKY: Judy, let us not mince words about this. And, when kids are exposed to domestic violence it has profound long-lasting effects. What we

always say is that the girls become worriers, the boys become warriors.

The women act in. The men act out. And, it has profound effects. It is traumatizing. The trauma becomes re-enacted in their personal lives. And,

here now we have evidence of this going on with this poor girl.

JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That is right, Dr. Drew. So, what you are talking about, about women becoming worriers, what happens to them

is that they become hyper-vigilant, anxious, always looking for signs of danger. That triggers a bunch of different neurochemical effects that then

take them into clinical anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder syndrome.

PINSKY: And, substances if they have the gene.

HO: That is right. If they have the gene, then substances are a perfect way to finally escape from that cycle of worry and anxiety. Because that

is the only time they can break enough with reality and to have just a little reprieve from all of the things that concern them every day.

PINSKY: I want to show you what Rosie Perez said on "The View." Have a look at this tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSIE PEREZ, HOST OF "THE VIEW" SHOW: I just thought that movie that came out and this is no disrespect to Angela Bassett, because I love Angela

Bassett. But, unauthorized biography of her mom, it must have killed her.

That was a terrible phrasing. Let me take that back. It must have really hurt her deeply to watch that. And, you know, we forget that these people

are human beings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And, Nicci, they were human beings to you. Is it hard for you to watch stuff like that.

GILBERT-DANIELS: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean I will say this. Angela Bassett did an incredible job in my opinion, because it was going to

happen. I mean we know this industry. Someone was going to do the movie. I feel like Angela Bassett did a very good job of sharing the love story

between the two of them.

There are a lot of things out there. I am sure she felt like the whole world was siphoning off of her mother`s legacy and it is disgusting. I

think that, you know, it is awful. It hurts me. It makes me wonder what I have to look forward to and other women in this industry what you have to

look forward to when someone can control your image and your likeness.

And, you know, it must have been tough. I saw a letter from her grandmother apologizing about the book. She is a young girl. Even though

there was not anything, quote, unquote, "Wrong," we still have to consider how she processes that.

PINSKY: Leeann, you wanted to comment on this?

TWEEDEN: Yes. You know, it is funny, a couple weeks ago -- just before that movie came out, we had Angela Bassett on "L.A. Today," my morning

radio show to talk about it. I asked her specifically, how she figured out what to show of Whitney`s life, right?

And, Angela Bassett said, "Look, we tried to show her career. We tried to show her love life with Bobby Brown." But, she goes, "We could not do it

justice or the world justice to portray Whitney Houston and not show that part of her life."

So, I know she felt 100 percent behind it. Because, look, we all know that there were problems in that life. It played out in the real world. We saw

it on the news. We saw her do the interviews with Oprah and talk about their problems.

So, you know, for that to try to blame it on a movie to me is a cop-out. Because everybody knows that there was turbulence in that relationship.

So, I do not feel like they can go there and just say, "Oh, with that movie, it pushed her over the edge."

PINSKY: I think, Leeann, I think that point is very well taken. I mean my thought, specifically, on that are that it is never just the fame, never

the movies, never the scrutiny, not exclusively at least. We for some reason who want to watch the celebrities want also that celebrities to be

the issue that is the causation of so much of what goes on in a celebrity life.

It does not help. And, the fact that people might have sicka fans or insulated peers around them that prevent them from suffering the usual

consequences that the rest of us would have, that does not help things. It makes them sort of roll along and get worse than the rest of us perhaps do.

Because the rest of us would have somebody pulling us back and then pulling over their family member. If you are a celebrity, you can dismiss people

from your circle if they confront you with something you do not want to hear about, and everyone is afraid to be dismissed from the circle, that is

when bad things happen.

Next up, Bruce Jenner may be transitioning. You will hear from his family about this.

Later, taking sides over "American Sniper." Whose side are you on? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE JENNER, KRIS KARDASHIAN`S EX-HUSBAND: You know, a lot of things are happening, but I do my best to try to keep everything calm.

(END VDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: There has been so much buzz about Bruce Jenner`s appearance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR (voice-over): His Adam`s apple changed. He is growing his hair out very long. His birthday, he showed up with a

bright manicure on his fingers. So, little bit here and there --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Radar Online reports that Bruce Jenner`s mother confirms her son is transitioning to becoming a woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DYLAN HOWARD, RADAR ONLINE`S EDITORIAL DIRECTOR: That she supports him wholeheartedly. She went on to say, quote, "I just love him like I always

have."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCI BOWERS, GENDER REASSIGNMENT SURGEON: This is challenging for the family. No question about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRIS JENNER, BRUCE JENNER`S EX-WIFE: So, we are having a good time and there is a lot going on, as you can probably imagine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Watching him as this masculine man and then kind of transition to where he is now, but I would be pissed if I was his

ex-wife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Vanessa and Sam. And, joining us Ashlan Gorse Cousteau, journalist and advocate. And, we cannot independently confirm reports

about Bruce Jenner. But, "People" reports that he has, quote, "Come out to those closest to him." Sam, what do we know about this?

SCHACHER: OK. So, according to "People" Magazine, they have this close family source who told them that Bruce Jenner recently sat down with each

of his children, face to face, to share the news.

Now, just to give a background on all of his children, Dr. Drew, because it is a little bit confusing. Jenner was married three different times, OK?

Bruce Jenner has six biological children and has taken over the role for the four children, Kris Jenner had with the late Robert Kardashian.

Now, some of the photos that we have here -- we have them, they are from the Instagram and Facebook. Can we see those? OK. So, some of his

children were described, though, initially they were stunned, but all of them are now rallying around him.

The only initial holdout according to "People" Magazine and the source seemed to be Kim Kardashian, who reportedly made sure that her mother Kris

was "mentally OK" before she was able to give support.

And, also "People" Magazine did not report on Kris Jenner and whether or not Bruce has specifically talked to her. And, we also have breaking news,

Dr. Drew. According to TMZ, they are now reporting that the Kardashian family has canceled all press in regard to the upcoming season, season 10

of "Keeping Up With The Kardashians."

PINSKY: Oh, that is interesting. So, they apparently --

SCHACHER: All press.

PINSKY: I think the way they are handling this is, quite good. Did any of you guys see "transparent" -- any of the three of you?

SCHACHER: I want to. It is not on my list.

PINSKY: But, there is a scene in there in where he sits down with his family and tries to talk about this. And, they immediately think he is

going to say he has cancer or something terrible.

And, I thought that was very clever, because when you really care about someone, when they tell you something very deeply poignant and personal

about them, it is a challenge to kind of get your head around.

But, it is much better than some of the things people can sit down and tell you, such as I am dying of cancer or something terrible. So, I am certain

that they all are supportive of him. But they, too, have a lot to deal with. Do not you think, Vanessa?

BARNETT: Yes, they do have a lot to deal with. But, let us not think that this is some grand move by the Kardashian-Jenner clan. I mean --

PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. Whoah! Whoah! Wait, wait wait. You are saying that this was some sort of ploy? This is all --

BARNETT: I think everything they do is a ploy. I will be very honest. I do not know if I am a hundred percent believe that Bruce is transitioning.

I feel some of the wording is very gray. I feel like the interview with the mother.

She -- Let us be honest, she is an older woman. I believe she is 88, 90. I feel like that maybe there are words that you can say to a woman of that

age that manipulate her into believing that her son is transitioning --

PINSKY: Well, like she does not understand what that means?

BARNETT: I do not know. I just do not know if I 100 percent believe.

SCHACHER: Are you high?

BARNETT: I believe that he is rebelling against Kris. I believe a lot of their marriage she tried to control him, "Hey, where you here?" Sure. Get

this face-lift." "Do this, that." The minute they get divorced, he grows his hair out. He starts doing things that people deemed to be different or

weird. I just do not know if I am 100 percent on board.

PINSKY: All right. All right. Vanessa, hold on a second. Sam, you mentioned Kim Kardashian`s interview with Entertainment Tonight --

BARNETT: Exactly.

PINSKY: I am going to play a little of that for you. Well, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM KARDASHIAN, KRIS JENNER`S DAUGHTER: On this one, I will say that I think Bruce should tell his story his way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: But, is he going -- is he going through something? I think that, that is what everybody is so curious about.

KARDASHIAN: I think everyone goes through things in life. What I do think that that story and what Bruce is going through, I think he will share

whenever the time is right. Bruce is very happy, the happiest I have ever seen him. And, I think when the time is right, he will talk about whatever

he wants to talk about. I just feel like that is really his journey to talk about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Ashlan, I take that as a yes and I am comfortable with it.

ASHLAN GORSE COUSEAU, JOURNALIST AND ADVOCATE: I understand that everything the Kardashian-Jenner clan does usually has something behind it.

And, even if they have a big story, they spin it as much as they possibly can to be in their favor. That I get.

But, I think that this really is the real deal. And, it is very sad to think that people do not believe Bruce and what he is going through. But,

the time that you take your family and you sell yourself to be on a vapid, fake reality show about your family, to me you lose all credibility of

being taken seriously.

So, sadly, for me, I think if this is true, Bruce would have been an amazing role model for the transgender community. But, I think being a

part of the Kardashian clan has made him a joke. Sadly, he missed that. He missed that opportunity.

PINSKY: Vanessa.

BARNETT: And, as someone who works in entertainment news, I check my own sources. And, so, I am not saying that I do not -- I would not be

supportive, but I am not on board. But, at the end of the day --

PINSKY: Vanessa, are you saying that we do not check our sources?

BARNETT: -- No, I am not saying that. But, at the end of the day until I hear from Bruce Jenner, himself, I am not going to go around, telling this

man`s story and believing everything I hear from someone.

SCHACHER: Oh my gosh!

COUSTEAU: Agree, but --

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew --

BARNETT: Everyone is a source.

COUSTEAU: -- the sit down when he gets paid for it as so as Kris.

BARNETT: When he gives me the sit down, I will applaud him --

PINSKY: Well, supposedly --

BARNETT: -- and I will say, "Go, Bruce."

PINSKY: Supposedly, Sam, he has had a sit-down with Diane Sawyer. Is that not right?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: And, you know what? Good for him. And, you know what? I do not think he is a joke. I do understand that surrounding the Kardashian

clan, but he is his own entity. He also comes from this incredible Olympic background. OK? And, I think with him, I think that the media has been

really harsh.

I think it is OK for people to ask questions. Yes, of course, with his change of appearance. I do not think it is a publicity stunt. Are you

kidding me? I do not think it is a publicity stunt. Are you kidding me, Vanessa? But, I will say, I do not like reading headlines like, quote,

"Dude looks like a lady." OK? That is horrendous.

Because now is the time to treat somebody like this, just because you are in a public eye, does not mean that we cannot treat them with compassion.

It does not mean that we cannot treat them with respect, because this is a delicate situation and it will set a precedent for others who are also

going through this type of experience.

PINSKY: Ashlan.

COUSTEAU: Sam, I 100 -- 100 percent agree with you on that. But, I am saying that as a part of this empire, like Vanessa is saying, we have to

wonder. We wonder what is behind this, what is going on? Is this just --

SCHACHER: You can wonder, of course.

COUSTEAU: But I am jus thinking, he would -- it is so sad. He would have been such a good role model for this with his background of being such a

good speaker and having this wonderful history.

But as being tainted by being a part of that family, who we all know are publicity mongers -- probably, the nicest word I can think of. They are

out for one thing, and that is publicity. So, I actually feel bad for Bruce --

PINSKY: I will tell you what --

COUSTEAU: -- that he has to go through this with that family in the shadow.

BARNETT: He is going show about it too --

PINSKY: Well --

SCHACHER: Good for him.

PINSKY: Maybe he is.

SCHACHER: Good for him. He is creating a conversation, good.

PINSKY: I think history will be kind to this. I believe that when we look back, once he does sit down, as Vanessa asks and he tells us his story, we

will look back on this and you know the way he did this, the way he allowed us to see him slowly get more comfortable with his transition, which is how

you handle this kind of thing, he allowed us to get more comfortable with it, until that point at which he decided to reveal the whole story.

We all are much more comfortable with this story at that point as opposed to going into hiding and then all of a sudden showing up as a new person.

That would have been a shock. And, that you would have been claiming that the Kardashians were completely behind that as well, Vanessa. But, I am

not looking for a fight right now.

Next up, a young woman who herself transitioned from being a male to female will join me. YouTube star, Nicole Ramos, is here. And, later, why is

"American Sniper" so polarizing? We will talk about that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Several sources are reporting that Jenner will star in upcoming documentary style series for E!.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARNETT: I think this is another ruse by the Kardashian clan and we are going to see this on the next season of "Keeping up with the Kardashians"

and it is just another story line. I am over it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWEEDEN: I mean if you lived with all those women, it does not surprise me that he wants to have painted nails and long hair and wear makeup.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: He goes through some kind of transition.

TWEEDEN: It did not surprise me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: But, we should not be jumping on this man, whether he is making a transition or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHACHER: Regardless, Bruce Jenner is a human being. And, when you read some of those tabloids, where people are saying, "Oh, he is wearing nail

polish" or "Oh, when is he going to come out as a transgender." That is up for him to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with our behavior bureau. Judy and Leeann and by Skype, Nicole Ramos, she is a transgender female and a popular YouTube

personality. Radar Online reports that Bruce Jenner`s mother has confirmed that he is transitioning from male to female.

And, now "People" Magazine is citing a source that says Jenner has revealed this to all of his children. We, of course, cannot independently confirm

reports about Bruce Jenner. Many of our Facebook followers are asking about Jenner`s marriages like the one from Mike, who asked, quote, "Why did

he lie to all the wives he had?"

Judy, I see no evidence that he -- I have no respect for him he says, too. Judy, I have no sense that he did lie. People are getting very confused

about gender identity and sexual identity. Gender is who you are. Sexual identity is who you love. And, he still is interested in women. He loved

his wives. And, he may have been honest with some of them.

HO: That is right, Dr. Drew. So, gender identity disorder, what we know as gender dysphoria, means that you are uncomfortable or discontent with

the biological sex you were born with. So, that is a very different thing as you just mentioned as who you are sexually attracted to.

And, there are actually is very little correlation. Although, there is more of a leaning for transgender male to female to still be attracted to

female. So, in essence, by the time they have transition, they would I guess be in lesbian relationships.

PINSKY: That is right. And, in my clinical experience, that is mostly what I have seen. And, Leeann, you know, we heard from a transgender

surgeon, yesterday, that her parents were mostly men in their 50s, who had been ruminating about this their whole life, but came out later who often

times still were interested in women, had family, had very much the way Bruce Jenner`s life played out.

TWEEDEN: Well, you know, it is funny. I talked about it on the show before then. I think the older generation -- Look, they did not the luxury

of the internet. They did not have Google. They did not have places where they could go and find like-minded people, right?

A lot of times, people do not even know what it is that they feel. And, especially back then, you know, men were supposed to grow up, you were

going to lead the household, you will get married, you will have kids, you will keep on the family name, right?

That is what you did. And, I think finally that maybe even being around all the women in the Kardashian family that maybe he realized and he felt

secure enough. Look, he has probably been thinking this for years. I did a piece with him when I was doing the best damn sports show. And, he was

nothing but kind and generous and funny.

PINSKY: Of course.

TWEEDEN: And, I really loved him. We had a great time together. You know, I feel for him because this is playing out in public. So, it makes

it probably ten times as hard.

PINSKY: Well, and again, I think he is managing this sort of beautifully.

TWEEDEN: I do, too.

PINSKY: You know? And, Nicole, you actually -- Leeann brought up Google. You actually credit Google with helping your generation understand more

about what it is to be transgender.

NICOLE RAMOS, TRANSGERNDER YOUTUBER (via Skype): Absolutely. I think that for a lot of people, you know that you are different, but you do not know

exactly know how you are different. And, thankfully, I grew up in a time where I have Google. And, I think for older people, it can be different.

And, now they are able to kind of realize what it is about them that is different. And, they can put a name to it.

PINSKY: And, Nicole, when did you realize you were transgender?

RAMOS: Well, I mean, when I was growing up, I thought that I was a little girl. And, I was kind of something that I thought until somebody told me,

otherwise, on the playground one day. But, like I said, I grew up in a time where I had Google, so I could kind of type in what was different

about me and there was a name for it. But, it is kind of always been with me personally my whole life.

PINSKY: And, how do you feel Bruce Jenner has been doing in this very public sphere he lives in dealing with this phenomenon? -- if it is -- If

indeed that is what we are watching?

RAMOS: I think he is dealing with it the best he can. It is a lot for someone to take on. It is a lot for the family to take on. And, I think

that he needs time to really be able to share this with the world. You know, a lot of transgender people, we do not have to share our stories with

the world. So, I can understand it could be more of a challenging situation for him. But, I think he is handling it great so far.

PINSKY: And, let me ask you a personal question. When you had to transition, was it done little by little the way Bruce is allowing himself

and the rest of us to become accustom?

RAMOS: Absolutely. For most people`s transition, it is done little by little unless you know you have the money and resources to do everything

all at once. But, yes, mine was done little by little over the years.

PINSKY: And, one last question. What do you think it would have been like if you had to, for whatever reason, continue living as a man?

RAMOS: For me, personally, it was so depressing. I do not think that there would have been much of a life left for me as a man.

PINSKY: How is it now?

RAMOS: It is wonderful. I love my life now.

TWEEDEN: Can I ask a question, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Leeann, go ahead, please.

TWEEDEN: Yes. Hi, Nicole. It is Leeann here. Have you -- excuse me if the terminology is not right here. Have you transition all the way into

being a female? Have you gone that route like to do the complete, you know? --

PINSKY: The surgery.

TWEEDEN: -- change of genital area?

PINSKY: The surgery.

TWEEDEN: Yes.

RAMOS: Yes. It is called sex reassignment surgery. And, I have not had it yet.

TWEEDEN: OK. OK.

RAMOS: But, it is something that I am definitely thinking about for the future.

TWEEDEN: So, it is something that you completely -- you know you are a woman and you are OK with just doing that completely?

RAMOS: I am OK with that. But, it is also important to understand that having a vagina is not something that would make me a woman to me, because

this made me a woman. So, it is not something I feel necessary, but it could be something I would want further down the line.

PINSKY: Judy?

HO: Well, I just wanted to say that you know, you also shared that you did this step by step. And, I would imagine that, that also is helpful when

you are trying to process sort of your transition, that you have a little time to pause and reflect on it and to really know that you want to go

forward.

I know that sometimes, it is a difficult decision for people and they have to manage everybody around them. Did you find that because you did it step

by step that way that you also had time to be more psychologically comfortable and really give yourself a little bit of time and breathing

room too?

RAMOS: Well, for me personally, the reason I did it slowly and step by step is because of family. You know, you cannot just push, "Hey, I am a

woman," and bam! And, change everything overnight and expect it to stick and be taken seriously.

Me, personally, I would have done it overnight if I could. But, I had other people to think about in the situation. So, I think that is why it

is important to do it slowly. So, people can become accustom to it.

PINSKY: And, Nicole, thank you for joining us and clarifying some of these issues. It is a novel area for some people to get their head around. I

think it is very important that we all increase our understanding and sensitivity about this. I also think that just like Nicole, as I said in

the last segment, Bruce Jenner is doing this properly, step by step, giving him and us a chance to adjust to this.

So, it is not some sort of complete surprise that comes out of nowhere. I think the reason people cannot take their eyes off this case, aside from

the fact that it is part of the Kardashian situation that makes everybody doubt it and argue about it, such as Vanessa, but the fact is that the

juxtaposition of someone who seemed to be something we thought of as one thing, it turns out in his -- as Nicole said in here he is experiencing

something very, very different. And, that is sort of something we cannot really look away from. And, it is something for us to really think

carefully about, be sensitive to and get our head around.

Next up, speaking of that, the debate -- getting our head around something. "American Sniper." Someone who knows about war firsthand is here with me.

And, also we are on Instagram. Check us out there. Please. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKE GRIMES, AS MARC LEE IN THE FILM "AMERICAN SNIPER": You got some sort of savior complex?

BRADLEY COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE IN THE FILM "AMERICAN SNIPER": I just want to get the bad guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

HOWARD STERN, RADIO AND TELEVISION PERSONALITY: The story of this guy`s life as a warrior, and a war is hell. And, it shows war as hell. It does

not glorify it. You do not sit there, and go afterwards, "Man, I want to go be a sniper."

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRIMES, AS MARC LEE: They feel invincible with you up there.

COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE: They are not.

GRIMES, AS MARC LEE: They are if they think they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

STERN: He said I do not feel bad about killing the enemy. I was there to protect our soldiers. That is he got to be when you are a warrior. You

cannot sit there and feel bad every time you kill somebody.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FERGUSON REID, AS NAVY DOCTOR IN THE FILM "AMERICAN SNIPER": Do you ever think that you might have seen things or done some things over there that

you wish you had not?

COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE: Oh, that`s not me, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

STERN: It is dumfounding to me that anyone who enjoys our country and the freedoms does not worship what these guys do.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE): I am willing to meet my creator and answer for every shot that I took. The thing that haunts me are all the guys that I

couldn`t save.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Leeann Tweeden. I also have Jessie Jane Duff, Gunnery Sergeant U.S. Marine Corps Retired and Karamo Brown, social worker. We are

talking about the controversy surrounding Navy Seal, Chris Kyle, and the movie about his life, "American Sniper." Jessie, does this movie turn

Chris into a hero that he never in fact really intended to be?

JESSIE JANE DUFF, GUNNERY SERGEANT U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. He never wanted to be a hero. I think what

it does, it personalizes him and it shows people the sacrifices that we make on active duty every single day. And, to some people, that becomes

heroic.

Often we make heroes out of people that have meant something to us. We do not expect Chris Kyle to be a hero to everyone, but for those of us who

have served and been on active duty, this movie shows the hardships we endure, what our family goes through, the sacrifices we make every single

day to ensure that the freedoms that we have right here in this studio to talk about this very topic still exist today. And, that to many people is

very heroic.

PINSKY: I think Jessie, I read in a pre-interview, you said that everyone in the military out there in the field has given us a blank check to --

including their life, they are willing to lay their life on the line.

DUFF: Well, actually, Chris Kyle said that. He said if you do not like the war, that is fine. But do not dislike the service member, because

every last one of us when we joined -- and when I joined and I swore to uphold the constitution and protect this country against all enemies

foreign and domestic, I gave a blank check saying, I am here.

And, I am a United States Marine, and every marine is a rifleman. I know how to shoot. I may not have been as good as Chris Kyle, but I can shoot.

And, if I had to, we would. We have to defend and protect the freedoms we all so gratefully appreciate every single day whether you like the wars or

not.

PINSKY: And, Karamo, does not like the war. You came out yesterday very strongly against all this. What do you say to my gunnery sergeant?

KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: I am still there today. I do not dislike Chris Kyle and I appreciate him as a man. But, what the issue is that I am

not going to glorify the killings and the deaths. First of all, what is disheartening is that we should not have been in Iraq in the first place.

So, all these people that he killed, we should not have been there.

We went into Iraq under false pretensions and that is why these people die. Also, 100,000 Iraqis died in comparison to 5,000 American soldiers. And, I

am not saying that there is a tit for tat for life. But, what I am saying here is that I am not going to sit here and watch a movie that glorifies

all these people dying by this man`s hand, that this is an amazing thing.

PINSKY: And, Leeann, I feel you brewing there. Go ahead, have at it.

TWEEDEN: You know, I just talked to a friend earlier tonight before that had served with Chris Kyle and was attached with the Navy Seals there.

And, what he said was, look, you know, people are talking about Chris Kyle saying, he did not like Iraqis. It was not just Iraqis in general. OK?

That fight in Ramadi was bad. And, we are talking the worst of the worst. If you think about the people in ISIS right now, who are burning alive

military pilots that they down, OK that is the kind of people they were talking about.

He did this -- he did not look at it is like, "Oh, I am killing people. He is talking about -- Chris Kyle was a man who was doing this to save the

lives of the people he served with, OK?

My husband has been served on active duty. He is almost 20 years in. And, a lot of my friends or people that have served in both Iraq and

Afghanistan, and they look at it as protecting each other. It was not about like trying to make them the bad people.

PINSKY: Next up, Leeann was on tour with Bradley Cooper. She will tell us about her relationship -- his relationship with the men and women serving

our country. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with Leeann, Jessie and Karama. We are talking about the controversy surrounding "American Sniper." Leeann, you spent some time

with the man who portrayed Chris Kyle in "American Sniper." Tell us about Bradley Cooper and his interaction with the troops on active duty.

TWEEDEN: You know, I actually got to spend a couple weeks with him. We traveled to Iraq and Afghanistan on a USO tour with the Chairman of the

Joint Chiefs of Staff. And, he was a lovely guy who really loved the troops. And, it is funny Bradley and I got into some political

conversations and stuff.

But, what was important to him was to show the troops how he felt about them, how he respected what they did, how less than 1 percent of the United

States population even wear a uniform in this day and age to serve and do everything that we ask of them to do as a country.

We visited wounded warriors together. And, he was just, you know, a guy who I know when he wanted to do the story of this book of Chris Kyle, he

wanted to get it right. And, I think he did a really great job. I talked to a couple people who knew Chris and Taya, and they said he really got it

down right.

PINSKY: And, Chris was killed two years ago at a shooting range. He and a friend took Eddie Ray Routh to help -- to arrange -- to try to help this

guy recover from PTSD. Routh is accused of shooting and killing both Kyle and his friend. His trial begins next week. Jessie, you know, is not that

one of those unforeseen tragedies and another example of people not supporting veterans properly, so they get the care they need?

DUFF: You know, that is a very good point that you make is that such as people like Mr. Brown who have said we glorify killing. The fact of the

matter is nobody wants to go to war, especially those who could lose their lives doing it.

TWEEDEN: Amen.

DUFF: And, I think that he needs to be more sensitive in saying that, because to suggest that we glorify this is a misstatement. I have friends

in Arlington Cemetery who were buried. I have friends without arms and legs. So, please do not ever suggest that. And, this poor man have --

BROWN: I said the movie, actually. The movie glorifies.

DUFF: It does not. It does not glorify. You are wrong. You are absolutely wrong.

BROWN: My personal opinion.

DUFF: You said you would not go see it. You are wrong, Mr. Brown. You are wrong.

BROWN: And, there is actually Iraq veterans -- there is actually Iraq veterans who are actually online who also do not support and see the same

way that I have seen it --

DUFF: It does not glorify deaths. It does not glorify deaths --

BROWN: There is Iraq veteran against the war who are online, who support what I am saying.

DUFF: -- But, as you were saying -- 22 veterans. Mr. Brown, let me finish.

PINSKY: One at a time.

DUFF: 22 veterans a day commit suicide every single day based upon the traumas that they go through and the lack of veteran care. 22 a day. And,

this is an ideal opportunity for people to be aware of some of the things that the tragedies that some of these veterans are going through.

And, the man that shot Chris Kyle, I believe will get a fair trial. Because if he served his country honorably and they can show that he had a

type of disability, I am sure that is going to be taken into consideration. But, we do not glorify death, and nor does that movie.

PINSKY: Leeann, I got less than 10 seconds. Can we get it in 5?

TWEEDEN: Yes. Quickly, I just want to say, Chris Kyle, he wanted to find something that was purposeful after a life in the military. And, that is

what he did to help troops.

PINSKY: Thank you, guys. "Forensic Files" is next and it begins now.

END