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France and German Leaders Come to Moscow to Discuss Escalation of Violence in Eastern Ukraine; Jordan Wants to Destroy ISIS; Railroads Crossing Safety Questioned

Aired February 05, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

COSTELLO: Kerry announcing more than $16 million in U.S. aid for Ukraine to help the war torn country to respond to the "crisis cost by Russia's aggressive actions." In just minutes, the Secretary of State live addressing the conflict. Plus, Jordan escalating its attack on ISIS, launching its first wave or airstrikes, the bombing in retaliation for the killing of a fighter pilot. Why Jordan's actions could spark the U.S.-led offensive on the terror group. Let's talk live in the CNN "Newsroom."

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Strong words from Secretary of State John Kerry as he calls out Russia amid the escalating violence in Ukraine. We're now awaiting a news conference to begin shortly with Kerry and the Ukrainian prime minister. He's wrapping up a series of meetings today in Kiev. Just a few hours ago, Kerry said Russia needs to pull back heavy weapons that can reach heavily populated areas, remove foreign troops and close the Russian Ukrainian border.

Let's head right to Ukraine and CNN's chief national correspondent Jim Sciutto who is traveling with the secretary. Tell us more, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, I'll tell you, here in Kiev we're seeing a fairly remarkable diplomatic full-court press under way. You have the secretary of state from the U.S. here, you have the presidents of France and Germany arriving later tonight and then heading to Moscow. To the West, the NATO powers along with the U.S. showing a unified front against Russia, against military actions that I'll tell you, Carol, having covered this story for a month, I have not heard them use terms to describe. They're talking about a grave escalation on the ground, a dire security situation on the ground, which they blame on Russia, not just pro-Russian separatists, but Russian forces, Russian heavy weapons, Russian troopers, Russian commanders leading what Secretary of State John Kerry called, so- called pro-Russian separatists. And you heard that today in his public comments just earlier when he was standing alongside Ukrainian president, listen to how he described Russian military action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The largest threat that Ukraine faces today, and that is Russia's continued aggression in the east. There's no other way to call it. We're not seeking a conflict with Russia. No one is, not President Poroshenko, not the United States, not the European community. That's not what this is about. We want a diplomatic resolution, but we cannot close our eyes to tanks that are crossing the border from Russia and coming in to Ukraine. We can't close our eyes to Russian fighters in unmarked uniforms crossing the border and leading individual companies of so-called separatists in battle. We can't close our eyes to modern rockets and modern radar capacity and other capacity that has crossed the border in order to prosecute this conflict across sovereign lines, across international borders against all the promises that were made in the Minsk cease- fire agreement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, who are you holding for? --

SCIUTTO: The descriptions from the Ukrainian officials even more alarming. They describe what they call barbaric attacks on civilians and they say -- they claim 9,000 Russian forces inside Ukrainian territory. U.S. officials not using those same numbers, but they are saying that Russian forces are certainly on the ground here in numbers. Russian troops, though they may not be wearing the uniform, Russian heavy weapons and describing how just in the last few days it's escalated even more significantly. Carol, a real sense of crisis here and a real sense that the West has to act and very quickly. But I'll tell you, the one action that there is clearly not a decision on yet, and that is sending arms to the Ukrainian forces there, although that is something that some in the U.S. administration and certainly some here in Ukraine are asking for very desperately.

COSTELLO: So, if the situation is so dire on the ground and we know that Russia has heavy military weaponry within the borders of Ukraine, why not arm the rebels. What are they waiting for?

SCIUTTO: Well, the calculation from the beginning on this has been, if you send weapon, how does Russia react? Because no one believed you could send enough weapons to Ukrainian forces to defeat Russian forces. They're just simply too powerful and they can always send more tanks and missiles and soldiers across the border. The reason to send weapons will be to raise the costs for the Russians on the ground to make it more likely that they go to the negotiating table.

The trouble is the West -- the U.S. has been raising the economic costs for Russia for months. It's been working, it's hurting the Russian economy along with the fall of the price on oil to the tunes of tens of billions of dollars. And yet, on the ground, the situation is not deescalating, it's going the opposite direction. So, you know, one of the most difficult parts in this from the beginning has been how do you gauge Vladimir Putin's responses. And I'll tell you, the track record since the start of this crisis for the U.S., for the West, has not been great. They've been surprised by him. There are some that call him an irrational actor, and that is why you have worry about injecting more arms into the conflict. But meanwhile, Russian forces are gaining more ground. Ukrainian forces, frankly, Carol, are getting beaten.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Sciutto reporting live for us from Kiev. Thanks so much. I want to bring in now CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel James Reese. Welcome, lieutenant, or welcome, colonel, I apologize.

So, you heard what Jim said, Senator John McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham are going to hold a press conference at 11:30 Eastern time. And I would assume both are going to talk about Ukraine and arming these rebels as in right now. Is that a good idea in light of what Jim Sciutto just reported?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Jim hits the tail on the donkey here. I mean he's straight up. You know, one of the problems right now is that again, I kind of go back to the diplomatic and political side, where is NATO involved? Is NATO going to look at this from a NATO organization perspective? The U.S., you know, we're there again, we are getting to be the world's policeman because we have to.

But Jim is right. If we just start pushing arms in, we will never beat the Russian military conglomerate that can push more aspects in. The other piece, too, is Ukraine has their own problems, their own issues with, you know, where the money is going, corruption, it's not that black and white of a fine line in Ukraine. It's something that Secretary Kerry has got to look for right now.

COSTELLO: Germany and France are going to meet with Russian officials I think a little bit later today. They're also involved in all of this. Why aren't they talking about arming the Ukrainian rebels?

REESE: Economics. Bottom line is, you know, these other countries have a lot of reliance on Russian oil, putting it in there - and that's one of their major concerns. And right now we're at an economic military stalemate which could be a major factor, because if the Russians decided to turn the oil off or even piecemeal it in, that affects the populations, which does not become popular within Germany -- especially in Germany. And again, you start to get these fracture lines now in NATO. And so the economics behind this are very critical.

COSTELLO: All right. Lieutenant Colonel Reese, thank you so much. Let's head to Moscow now because as you heard, Colonel Reese say, Vladimir Putin has a few more cards to play. Matthew Chance, how is Mr. Putin reacting to the strong words from Secretary Kerry this morning?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know what, Carol? There hasn't been a reaction from the Kremlin as such. I mean it's been too soon since John Kerry's words for the Kremlin to come out with a statement, although I expect there will be one at some point in the future. The allegations, again, that John Kerry repeated, that it's Russian troops, Russian tanks, Russian hardware that's essentially prosecuting the war, as well as Russian troops, essentially prosecuting the war in the east of Ukraine, that's been routinely rejected by the Russian side, it's been rejected by the kremlin, and the expectation is it will be rejected again. And so, you know, this is John Kerry's call for this to end is not something that's even going to be accepted by the Russians, in fact. COSTELLO: It's just so difficult to understand because the sanctions

are working. Russia's economy is tanking.

CHANCE: Well, despite that international pressure - and you're right, the sanctions are having an impact, so arguably the bigger impact is because of the plunge in the crude oil price. Russia's economy is heavily depended on oil. But the sanctions are having an impact. But the pain just isn't sufficient to deflect Vladimir Putin from what his strategic goal is. And his strategic goal appears to be to create some kind of, you know, a space in Eastern Ukraine that would prevent Ukraine from joining NATO, prevent Ukraine from joining the European Union and keep it, at least as much as it is possible, in Russia's sphere of influence. And so, even though there's been economic pain, it's not been sufficient to deflect Vladimir Putin from his track. I want to go back to what Lieutenant Colonel was saying about why the Europeans aren't pushing for weapons to be put in the hands of the Ukrainian government. It is economy, he was absolutely right about that, but there's also this sense that the conflict could escalate. You know, already there have been more than 5,000 people killed in this limited geographical area, what many in Europe want to avoid is an escalation of the conflict, a widening of it. Vladimir Putin broadening his support for the rebels. Hundreds of thousands of people could be in jeopardy if that happens.

COSTELLO: All right, Matthew Chance reporting live for us from Moscow. Many thanks to you. Still to come in the "Newsroom," Jordan takes another step in retaliation against ISIS. Airstrikes have started. But could this spark cooperation in the war on terror? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Jordanian fighter jets have returned to their home bases after carrying out the first wave of air strikes against ISIS in Syria. Their mission? Retaliation for the brutal murder of a fellow service member. Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr has been calling up her sources. She has more for us this morning. Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Expect to see more airstrikes, perhaps as second round coming. The Jordanians may well not be done with all of this, as you say, retaliation for the killing of their pilot. And earlier today a Jordanian government spokesman was very blunt about what ISIS should expect.

DR. MOHAMMAD AL-MOMANI, JORDANIAN STATE MINISTER AND GOVT. SPOKESMAN: We made it very clear right from the beginning that our response will be strong and will be decisive. We will not let this crime of killing our pilots with the horrific way it was done pass without punishment. These people will be punished.

STARR: And so what has happened is, it is our understanding is Jordanian F-16s have taken to the skies, they have struck a number of ISIS targets. The spokesman saying that most of the targets expected to be hit were actually going to be in eastern Syria and accompanied by U.S. support, warplanes, U.S. warplanes also in the air helping provide that typical package of military support, reconnaissance, intelligence, surveillance, targeting support. Also the U.S. having a number of aircraft on standby, if the worst were to happen, if a pilot were to go down, having rescue forces ready to go. By all accounts, however, at this hour, everyone has made it back from the target set in Syria. Carol.

COSTELLO: OK, so we know the targets are within Syria. Do we know specifically where?

STARR: We do not. That official announcement has not come out. Some people are speculating Raqqa, that is in the northern eastern sector of Syria. That's the ISIS stronghold. That is the area where most of the hostages over the months are believed to have been held and killed at the hands of ISIS. But the targets -- perhaps where the targets are is a key question because ISIS is not blind. They know the Jordanians are coming after them. And so they have been moving around a lot. This is very well understood. They've been trying to sort of meld into the woodwork, not present a high profile for a warplane to attack. So there's been a lot of work going on to figure out exactly where ISIS may be hiding out and where the Jordanians can get to them. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon. Many thanks.

Let's talk about this some more with CNN global affairs analyst and former U.S. Delta force commander Lieutenant Colonel James Reese. I'm also joined by CNN political commentator and national security editor for "The Blaze" Buck Sexton. Welcome to both of you.

Colonel, I want to start with you. Because when Jordan says that ISIS will be punished, what does that exactly mean? Does that mean Jordan will work to wipe out ISIS? Will they just punish them for a time? What do you think?

REESE: Carol, Jordan will work to punish and continue to work to destroy and degregate ISIS. King Abdullah, I call him the warrior king, he's the right guy to do this, he's talked about this, he has written about it. And what I like about him, he is the kind of leader that can take the lead for the Arab nations and he's the type of leader that understands that this is an Arab Islamic problem they have inside. Yes, they want our help, especially monetarily because Jordan does not have the oil revenues like UAE and Saudi do. So, we need to help them with that. That allows us to be on the back side and allow the Arab nations to take the lead.

COSTELLO: OK, I want to put those two pictures of King Abdullah up again. Because the first picture was of the king visiting the town where that fighter pilot was from and then the second picture was from the royal palace's Facebook page, and you can see the king dressed in military gear, you know, kind of saying to the world like I mean it, I'm going to take command of this and we're going to win. But Buck, I pose this question to you. Because I hear it all the time. You can't win against ISIS with airstrikes alone. There has to be boots on the ground. Would Jordan be willing to do that? BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think so. I think at this point, airstrikes is the most likely thing we'll see. And it's not clear how long those airstrikes will last. There is an effort on the ground to try to retake Mosul this spring using Kurdish allies and Iraqi allies on the Syrian side of the border, it's tricky. We don't really have anyone in place, the Free Syrian Army, but that's really more of the fledgling state. So, there is a recognition that air power is not enough, everyone realizes that. I think the Jordanians want to do as much as they can to try to degrade ISIS, but they really recognize that unless someone is going to go in there and actually hold territory and kick people out of cities like Raqqa, it's just not going to happen.

COSTELLO: And then, the specific targets of these airstrikes -- for example, colonel, and I'll pose this question to you. Since January 1ST, there have been 240 air strikes against Kobani and only 16 on Raqqa. And Raqqa is, you know, where the stronghold is. That's the city where ISIS controls everything. They're running that city, they are governing that city. So, why not more airstrikes over Raqqa?

REESE: Well, Raqqa is, as you said before, Carol, is their kind of staging base, their capital, per se. But Kobani became an emotional aspect for the Kurds, for the coalition up there. And what ISIS was doing, was they were pushing their combat power towards Kobani. So they're taking them out in the open. So, if the enemy or ISIS DAESH is going to do that and push their fighters towards Kobani, then that just naturally becomes a place that we want to kill them, their Kobani and just not sit around Raqqa. Because it all comes back to targeting. There's nothing to target in Raqqa other than maybe a building or commander control center. And you want to go where these fighters are. And during that time it was Kobani.

COSTELLO: OK, and the last question to you, Buck, because I hear this all the time, too. This has to be an Arab-led fight for a win against ISIS. So, are we seeing the beginnings of that with Jordan really getting into the fray now?

SEXTON: We would like to hope so. But it hasn't been an Arab-led fight so far. At least with regard to the air campaign, the airstrikes are 80 percent U.S. And then there are some other allies that have been pitching in. And the UAE, at least temporarily has said they're going to scale back until they feel more security for any pilots that may be downed in that process. But on the ground, ultimately, it will have to be a fight of regional allies and partners. The question, I think, that remains right now, is whether the U.S. is going to forward deploy some forces alongside those other forces. And I think that's looking increasingly likely. Because if the administration is serious about actually pushing ISIS, at least out of Iraq and into Syria, and trying to contain it there, which is an open question as to whether that's possible, it may require U.S. military skills and expertise.

COSTELLO: All right, Buck Sexton, Lieutenant Colonel Reese, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it, as always.

Still to come in the newsroom, the commuter train crash in New York left six people dead. Now, many are questioning just how safe are railroad crossings across the country. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A question this morning. How safe are railroad crossings? A 49-year-old mother of three was killed when her car got stuck on the tracks in Valhalla, New York. It was hit by a Metro-North commuter train carrying hundreds of people. That ignited and inferno that involved the train's first car. Five people died on that train. We want to show you a street view of the crossing, where this crash happened. You can see it there. It's typical. Looks like every other railroad crossing pretty much across rural America. Steve Ditmeyer joins me now. He is an adjunct professor of railway management at Michigan State University. Welcome, sir.

STEVE DITMEYER, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: Good morning, Carol. Pleased to be with you.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for being with me. The NTSB is investigating this accident because they can't figure out why the railroad crossing arm came down on top of this SUV and this woman couldn't get past it. Have you been looking into this as well?

DITMEYER: Yes, I have. First of all, I've observed that this particular grade crossing of Commerce Street and the railroad tracks is a very poorly configured grade crossing. The road comes down at a grade and crosses the tracks diagonally. The driver of the SUV was on -- her view was looking the other direction from the train. There was a very short distance from the grade crossing to a traffic signal at Taconic parkway where apparently there was a backup caused by an accident on the Taconic parkway. So, there were a set of circumstances here that set up this particular collision.

COSTELLO: Well, and it appears she panicked in some way. Because according to "The New York Times" she got out of her car, right, because she's trying to figure out what to do. She got back into her car, and instead of backing up, she went forward and the arm did not -- she could not pressure the arm and then the train hit her car.

DITMEYER: Actually the crossing gate arms are breakaways and she could have gone through it and broken it away. But many people don't realize that and feel that they are trapped by the gates.

COSTELLO: So, is this a problem you see across the country? Because I know there are many traffic deaths reported in this exact way.

DITMEYER: Yes, there is a real issue here. Around 270 people are killed annually in grade crossing accidents, being struck by a train. And also, too, these gates went down 20 seconds before the train arrived, and she got stuck, but that's not enough time to allow the train to stop. And so the warning -- the trains are going fast enough that they take maybe half a mile or so to stop.

COSTELLO: We'll see what the NTSB investigation turns up. Steve Ditmeyer, thank you so much for joining me, I appreciate it.

DITMEYER: Thank you. COSTELLO: Still to come in the "NEWSROOM," Jordan retaliates against ISIS for killing one of its pilots. A look at some of the damage caused by airstrikes against the terrorists in Syria.

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