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Air Strikes Against ISIS; Russia and Ukraine; Father's Hunch

Aired February 05, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We'll take it from here. Thanks for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Let's begin with U.S. warplanes in the skies high above Syria, helping key allied Jordan in this unprecedented new wave of air strikes on ISIS targets. These pictures here, this is actually posted by ISIS showing the aftermath of these coalition air strikes.

We are now seeing more Jordanian bombs dropping in a shorter period of time, while near Raqqa, remember, this is really the hub for ISIS in Syria, Jordan took the lead making good on their king's vow of vengeance for the burning alive of that captured Jordanian fighter pilot. Today, the king of Jordan, King Abdullah, not only paid his respects to the dead pilot's father. Incredibly, he took it a step further and ordered his warplanes to fly over the pilot's hometown after their bopping run.

Jordan saying this is the Muslim world's war now. A government spokesperson speaking to CNN just a short time ago. And I want you to listen as he uses the word Daesh. It's a derogatory Arabic acronym for ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD AL-MOMANI, JORDAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: This is our war, this is the Muslim world's war, and this is the Arab's war because Daesh is in the front of Jordan and putting threats to Saudi Arabia, and to Kuwait and other Gulf countries, as well as Iraq and Syria, of course. So it is logical for all of us to say and understand and accept that this is our war, especially that Daesh is committing this war on the name of Islam, which is absolutely incorrect and not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Back here in the United States, President Barack Obama capitalized on the new wave of religious condemnation being echoed by Muslims across the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No god condones terror. No grievance justifies the taking of innocent lives or the oppression of those who are weaker or fewer in number. And so as people of faith, we are summoned to push back against those who try to distort our religion, any religion for their own nihilistic ends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight to Jordan, to my colleague Becky Anderson, who's live in Amman. Just past 9:00 your time at night, Becky. And on those air strikes, what have you learned about the air strikes? How successful were they?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, while offering his condolences, Brooke, today to the family of the pilot who was so brutally murdered by ISIS in the past month, King Abdullah confirmed to Muath al-Kasaesbeh's father that he had deployed 30 jets, 30 Jordanian aircraft over Raqqa, which, of course, is this stronghold of the ISIS militant group. Those planes, it seems, on their route back, flew over the mourning area, which is to the south of the country here, to pay their respects, as it were, to the family and friends of Muath as well.

So 30 jets deployed. How many bombs were dropped, how many strikes were made is unclear. What we also know from a Syrian activist group is that a further 20 air strikes were led by the U.S. coalition over Hasaka (ph), which is about 600 kilometers northeast of Damascus, today. And we understand that 10 ISIS militants were killed in those attacks.

Nothing official from the army here so far as how the air strikes went or what was actually achieved, but certainly King Abdullah spending some time with the family today and confirming - the family confirming to us that indeed he had told them that is exactly what he had done. He has vowed this harsh retaliation on the militant group.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Becky Anderson, in Amman, thank you.

I want to stay on this and continue this conversation with Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, CNN military analyst.

General, good to have you back.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Hello, Brooke. It's good to see you.

BALDWIN: You know, listen, we've heard a lot about this before, that this has to be this region's war and not just the U.S.'s war, even though we know it's a coalition of some 60, you know, members. Today we did see this acknowledgment from Jordan. How do you think, you know, these 30 jets, as Becky was just reporting on, how might this change the state of play in this coalition war?

HERTLING: This is very symbolic, Brooke. I think the Jordanian air force wanted to get as many planes in the air as possible. They coordinated that with the CENTAF (ph), Central Command's air force element, the ones that put together the air tasking order to fly multinational ships over the territory where we're conducting operations. And this was a symbol. Daesh wanted to intimidate Jordan by killing their pilot. And just the opposite is the effect of all of this. And that's critically important. BALDWIN: We don't have specifics, at least according to Becky's

reporting, as far as the effectiveness of some of these strikes, though there were reports that a weapon's facility was hit, a factory used to make bombs, and 10 militants were killed. General, when you hear those targets, what's your read on that?

HERTLING: Well, it appears to be another day in the air tasking order. These are the kind of targets that you have aircraft go after. But I think the number of aircraft that went up is more of a psychological factor in this particular day of operations. To have that many aircraft, to react to the king's request to get as many pilot in the sky as possible, to show that they are not intimidating and they are willing to take the fight against Daesh and have their foreign minister say exactly that, and then have them over fly the pilot's neighborhood and his house, wow, that's pretty impressive truthfully and it shows the trust that the people of Jordan have in their king and how he's exhibiting that as well.

BALDWIN: Yes. But here's my question, and we've talked about this before, just generally in terms of this air strike campaign in Syria. You know, we, and I say the preverbal we, you know, have intelligence on the ground as far as Iraq is concerned, but Syria, it's a much, much different situation. How does Jordan and other coalition members know where to strike because of this lack of information?

HERTLING: Well, the galvanizing factor of pulling all Jordanians against Daesh now is critical because, remember, prior to the execution of Lieutenant Kasaesbeh, there were high percentages, as much as 20 percent of the Jordanians who did not feel that this was an appropriate fight for them to be involved in. Now they're almost completely supportive of what the king is attempting to do. And I think that's important.

The reason that relates is because intelligence between the tribes, what you get across the border from Jordan, right into Syria, how that goes back and forth, how you can process human intelligence within the tribes, and then confirm it with aviation or overhead platforms, confirm it with signals intelligence. I mean you may even have brother tribes members giving up other brothers, which we saw in the awakening in Iraq when it just became too brutal and they said, stop this. This is insanity. So that's important. You're getting much more human intelligence now to strike in Syria. And it's contributing significantly to what we didn't have before.

BALDWIN: Which is so huge. And there has been such a lack. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you so much, as always. Appreciate it.

Just ahead, the situation is, quote, "grave" and is escalating quickly in Ukraine as the U.S. demands Russia leave. We will take you there live.

Plus, a toddler among the survivors of that plane crash that was caught on camera. We wanted to ask why children are more likely to survive crashes.

And, America's top rated news man getting serious heat today for embellishing his experience on the battlefield. I'll speak with one media critic who says it's time for Brian Williams to go.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Today, the U.S. calling out Russia's Vladimir Putin, urging him to back down right now, pull Russian troops out of Ukraine, stop pretending that Russia is not meddling there. The White House is considering whether to send lethal defense aid to Ukraine. Secretary of State John Kerry is in Kiev. He says Russian-backed troops are shelling Ukrainian hospitals and schools and crowds of people waiting at bus stops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Let there be no doubt about who is blocking the prospect of peace here. Russia, with impunity, seemingly, has acted to cross that border at will with weapons, with personnel, with the instruments of death that they are bringing into Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We've covered Ukraine for months and months and months now. But just to remind you, you know, how did this situation get to this point? Let me take you back to 2004, to Ukraine's 2004 presidential elections. Russia's hand-picked candidate wins Ukraine's presidential race amid accusations of voter fraud. His opponent, by the way, got dioxin poisoning during that campaign. Mass protects erupt. That president gets ousted in 2005.

Flash forward to 2010. The same Russian-backed leader returns as president of Ukraine. Protests erupt. A couple years later, that president booted again. March 2014, Russia snatches up Crimea, annexes it.

So with that, let me take you to Kiev, to our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, who was there where U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is as well.

And, you know, I know a Kremlin spokesperson told you, there are no Russian tanks, no Russian troops in Ukraine. And so you -- you posed that question to Secretary Kerry. What exactly did he tell you?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you, there has been no mincing of words here about who is responsible for the increased violence, what State Department officials describing as an acute escalation of violence, a grave escalation of violence in the east. They say it is Russian heavy weapons and Russian troops, as these forces move further and further west into Ukraine. They're not just along that border with Russia anymore. They blame Russia directly. So, when I said that we'd reached out to the Kremlin for a reaction to that charge and the Kremlin denied it, listen to how both the secretary of state responded and the Ukrainian prime minister. It was a powerful moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Mr. Prime Minister, is it true that as the Kremlin has said today there are no Russians on the ground in -

ARSENLY YATSENYUK, UKRAINIAN PRIME MINISTER: It seems to me that the only country who strongly denied clear military Russian boots on the ground is Russian federation and personally President Putin. If they need, I can give them my gloves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow.

SCIUTTO: I could feel his blood boiling practically, Brooke, as he answered that question. Later, he was even biting at times., He said that he loves to get peace agreement proposals from Putin, very sarcastically, but saying that, you know, he doesn't even want to touch them.

But I will tell you this as well, Brooke, because, you know, Secretary Kerry came here. He's now on his way to Munich. You have the French president here now meeting with Poroshenko. The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, they've all come, but what they haven't brung -- brought with them are new, punishing sanctions against Russia. They have not brought military aid for Ukrainian forces. And I also asked the Ukrainian prime minister, was he disappointed. He didn't say he was disappointed but it was clear in his answer, Brooke, that he believes Ukraine needs it. And he made a case for it. He says we're only trying to defend our country, to push back those Russian forces, but they're not getting that military help yet, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You mentioned Hollande meeting with Poroshenko. But what about - and we talked about this before. I think it's key, just reminding our viewers, a relationship Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has with Vladimir Putin. And as they are to meet, how - I mean Angela Merkel definitely does have some leverage with Putin.

SCIUTTO: She does. She has a long relationship. But so far that leverage hasn't paid off. A lot of phone conversations between Berlin and Moscow in recent months, agreements made, agreements broken. And now you have Angela Merkel, tomorrow, going back to Moscow. Will it make a difference this time? You know, it's an open question because economic costs rising on Russia. That has not deterred Russia. And I think they're struggling to figure out what is going to change the calculus on the ground. They haven't come on that solution yet.

BALDWIN: Not yet. Jim Sciutto in Kiev. Thank you so much, Jim.

And let's keep this conversation going with someone who penned an entire opinion piece for cnn.com. He is Leon Aron, our resident scholar and director of the Russian Studies of the American Enterprise Institute.

And, Leon, just as, you know, my colleague was mentioning these peace agreements and peace accords, it reminded me of the line in you piece where you say, those accords signed by Russia aren't even worth the paper they are written on. Let me just begin with just Putin. Clearly not backing down until the Kremlin achieves victory. Defining - can you just -- as you outline in this piece, what does victory look like for Vladimir Putin here?

LEON ARON, RUSSIAN STUDIES DIRECTOR, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Well, that's exactly right. I mean Putin is not a mad man. He would sign an agreement that would be worth the paper it's written on, if it's an agreement along the line that he wanted to have since last March. If it will include, first of all, essentially the loss of Ukrainian sovereignty over the southeast of its country, the creation of essentially a Russian protector or a Russian proxy, if you will, and then a state consisting of the two so-called People's Republic of Luhansk and Donetsk. And essentially the block of votes in the Ukrainian parliament representing those republics, which will have a totally autonomous police structure, social structure, political structure, an economic structure totally dependent on Russia. And every time Ukraine seems to be ho moving towards the west, Putin could restart the trouble. If that is the kind of peace agreement that Angela Merkel and also French President Hollande, who is also meeting with Putin -- if they persuade Putin that they could deliver Ukraine, you could deliver Kiev on this type of agreement, then I think he will go ahead and have a peace talk.

BALDWIN: I'm sorry, Leon, I'm still back three points ago when you said Vladimir Putin is not a mad man. Were you being facetious?

ARON: Well, you know, that same -- Angela Merkel said a year or so ago that talking to Putin, she felt that he was a bit discombobulated. That he was not reflecting the reality. And as I argue in my piece, no, he -- I think he's very much rooted in the reality. And that reality is militarily and also just strategically.

BALDWIN: What can the west do? I mean additional sanctions? Is that it? What else?

ARON: Well, first of all, we should not think that any additional sanctions, economic sanctions, are going to stop Russia's pursuit of victory. Remember, Putin is not after peace. He is after victory. He needs that victory precisely because the domestic economic situation is so dire and getting worse. He is pretense (ph) his line that he's defending Russia in Ukraine, rather than let the NATO forces attack Russia directly. It has been bought by most Russians. So Putin cannot walk away from this battle. He needs either a victory or he will continue meddling in Ukraine. He will continue and expand his presence there.

BALDWIN: Leon Aron, your piece is "Facing Up to Putin's End Game," cnn.com/opinion. Thank you so much, sir, for coming on.

ARON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: next, did the pilot of that crashed plane intentionally aim for the river to save the lives of his passengers and perhaps others in Taipei? And how did a toddler survive. Hear what this child's father did based upon a hunch.

And a convicted terrorist lined to 9/11 says members of the Saudi royal family supported al Qaeda and these claims are now drawing all kinds of attention to 28 redacted pages in the 9/11 report. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Today we have even more new, harrowing details that are emerging about what exactly unfolded in those seconds before, during, and after a TransAsia plane lost control and then slammed into a shallow river in Taiwan. You've seen this video here of this plane clipping a bridge and a taxi before hitting the water there. At least 32 were killed, 15 survived and another 11 are still missing.

Now, the mayor of Taipei saying today the disaster could have been a lot worse had this plane, as you see here, not narrowly avoided a string of apartment buildings and commercial buildings right there. We learned today that the flight data recorders have been analyzed. We could be, very soon, learning a lot more about that. It is expected to provide a clearer picture on whether it was indeed the pilot's intention to ditch the aircraft into that river to avoid more casualties.

You've been watching this video, This is from a dash cam. This extraordinary piece of evidence also captured the moment the plane's wing clips this taxi cab on the highway. Surviving the close call, this incredibly fortunate cab driver calls his company moments later to explain what happened. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

DRIVER: My car is completely wrecked.

OPERATOR: A remote-controlled model plane?

DRIVER: Not a remote-controlled model plane, a small manned plane.

OPERATOR: Huh?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Yes, not a remote-controlled plane, a real plane. There are also the stories of what happened inside the aircraft shortly before takeoff. A strange noise apparently prompted a young father to switch seats at the last minute. And according to this father, that move away from the left side of this plane, which took the brunt of this crash, likely saved him and his wife and his toddler, who he then rescued from this river minutes later. Here they were. It's incredible stuff.

Here to talk a little bit more about this is Oscar Guillamondegui. He is the trauma medical director at Vanderbilt University.

So, doc, welcome.

DR. OSCAR GUILLAMONDEGUI, TRAUMA MEDICAL DIRECTOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Thank you for letting me be here. BALDWIN: So, I mean, sadly, you have these 32 souls who did not make

it out of this plane alive. But when you hear about the case of the young child, this toddler, who survives something so incredibly physically traumatic, how is this even possible?

GUILLAMONDEGUI: Well, most children are more elastic than adults. As you might expect, the older we get, the more brittle we become overall. And children are just able to take blunt force trauma a lot better than adults.

BALDWIN: When you say elastic, you mean literally, skin and everything else?

GUILLAMONDEGUI: Their bones are a little bit more capable of bending as opposed to breaking. And their solid organs, like their liver and their spleen and the things that cause us to bleed to death inside our body tend to be able to take on a little bit more force without serious injury.

BALDWIN: My goodness. We have a little bit more sound I want to get in here. The uncle of this toddler. He actually wasn't on the plane, but he did talk to CNN about what happened to his family in those moments after the crash. Here's what he told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He saw my nephew's feet in the water and pulled him out. But he had no heartbeat. His lips were blue. There was no sign of life. My brother performed CPR on his son and was able to revive him. And then they got out onto the wing waiting for the rescue team.

My brother was really grateful to the rescue teams and was also grateful to the pilot because of his heroic act. He was able to save a lot of people and allow our family to survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Dr. Guillamondegui, I mean you see -- you hear his story and the CPR involved and the waiting on the wing. And then we had the picture of everyone else in the - in this, you know, raft, in this rescue boat. When you look at these pictures here, what are you seeing?

GUILLAMONDEGUI: Well, you know, any catastrophic event, such as this, you're going to have mayhem. And the situation is that when you have someone like this small child who may have even been near death, the ability to come back from that is a testament to their physiological reserve, which, as we get older, becomes less of - we have less of an ability to take on such a big injury, such as being in a plane crash.