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Obama Requests Permission to Use Force; Advocacy Group No More Scrutinized; The Money Behind the Anti-Vax Movement

Aired February 06, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

As Jordan ramps up airstrikes against ISIS, President Obama is expected to send Congress a proposal that would authorize the use of force against the terrorist group. That's according to the White House and House Speaker John Boehner.

All right, cue the political bickering. To be clear, the U.S. has been leading the coalition effort for months now, but law requires the president to get congressional approval for prolonged military operations. And some lawmakers are balking because they say the president doesn't have a specific plan or a deadline.

So let's talk about all of that and more. Joining me now is CNN military analyst Colonel Peter Mansoor. We're also joining by CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank.

Welcome to both of you.

COL. PETER MANSOOR, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So, colonel, do you have an idea of what the White House plan is to fight ISIS or any idea of what the deadline is?

MANSOOR: Well, the deadline is going to be years in the making. They say this is a long campaign. It won't be over in a matter of months. And they have varied strategy that's going to take a long time to come to fruition. What that strategy is, is to use airstrikes to degrade ISIS, meanwhile building up the military capabilities of the Iraqi army and the Kurdish Peshmerga and the Free Syrian forces to eventually retake the ground lost.

COSTELLO: So, Paul, can you set a deadline to fight a terrorist group?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: No. I mean this is going to take many years in Iraq and many more years still in Syria because there are no credible partners on the ground in Syria, boots on the ground that can take the fight to ISIS. So this is going to be a really long struggle in Syria, in Iraq, in the wider region. Remember, ISIS has now spread its tentacles to Libya, to Egypt. It's really expanding in those countries.

I mean these airstrikes have halted ISIS' momentum to some degree. They've been pushed out of Kobani. They've lost out around Baghdad. But they still control vast areas of Syria and Iraq. And they're increasingly mixing with the local population, using them as human shields. So there are only a limited amount of ISIS targets you can go after. So this air campaign is not going to be able to defeat ISIS. Absolutely no chance of that. It can degrade ISIS. It can't defeat ISIS. And, meanwhile, ISIS is pivoting towards plotting terrorist attacks against the west. We saw that with a plot in Brussels last month.

COSTELLO: So if we continue with our coalition partners, colonel, to fight ISIS terrorists from the air, I mean, at some point doesn't somebody have to step up and say, look, we have to put boots on the ground? I mean it's not going to be boots from the Arab world, it's got to be boots from the United States?

MANSOOR: It has to be both and that's why it's so important for this authorization for the use of military force to not tie the president's hands in any way with specific types of military force that it can use or not use. Boots on the ground have -- the president has to have that option, otherwise the enemy will know that we have a very one-sided campaign and they can -- they can defend against it. If we have the authorization to put boots on the ground, it probably doesn't mean the sort of industrial strength war we saw in the Iraq War, but it can mean advisers helping out the forces on the ground, the Iraqis, the Kurds, the Syrians and the tribes, should they rise up against ISIS, and help them call in air strikes, train them, but be with them on the front lines in combat. So I think that it's incumbent upon Congress to debate this fully, but in the end they cannot tie the president's hands, otherwise they may be baking failure into the cake.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Paul, is Raqqa, Syria, an example of why you need boots on the ground to root out ISIS? Because we know that Jordan is really hitting Raqqa hard, this de facto capital of ISIS. But they can hide in the town among the civilian population. Is that a good example of why you really need boots on the ground to effectively get rid of terrorists?

CRUICKSHANK: Yes, and that's exactly right. I mean if you -- you look at Raqqa, they're absolutely mixing with the civilian population. They're in apartment buildings. You can't really get at them without killing a lot of civilians. And, obviously, that would create a big backlash and be very, very counterproductive. It's the same in Mosul. ISIS is embedded in urban areas. This is not like Afghanistan and Pakistan where the group's in remote mountain areas. They're in cities and towns and it's only going to be forces on the ground that are going to be able to root them out, Carol, in the end.

COSTELLO: OK. And we just got this video in, and I'd just like to show our viewers because it's so -- well, it's pretty amazing, frankly. Queen Rania, the Jordan's queen, she's at this big rally in support of this slain Jordanian fighter pilot who's become -- I know he's become such a big hero. And I'm sure, colonel, that this is part of Jordan's PR campaign at home as it sends more and more Jordanian fighters into Syria and maybe next into Iraq to root out ISIS.

MANSOOR: Well, the king and the queen are clearly rallying the people behind the flag. They're showing their support for the slain pilot. And they're exacting revenge for this heinous action on ISIS. Now, if Jordan really wants to be effective, they've got to sustain this military action over a long period of time and be with the United States and our coalition partners in it to the end. And that, again, goes to the authorization for the use of military force. It can't tie the president's hands in terms of a timeline either because that would also mean failure in the end, I think.

COSTELLO: Well, he's got -- I mean, it's just that most Americans don't want boots on the ground. They don't want to get into another full out war. So the president's going to have maybe a harder time with the American people than even Congress, but we'll see.

Paul Cruickshank, Colonel Peter Mansoor, thanks to both of you. I appreciate your insight.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, they made history by teeming up with the NFL for the first ever commercial against domestic violence to air during the Super Bowl. Now critics say nomore.org is really all about branding the issue, not solving it. We'll talk about that next.

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COSTELLO: The NFL's fight against domestic violence under fire, this time from the sports blog Deadspin. Take a look at the headline. "No More, the NFL's domestic violence partner, is a sham." In case you don't remember, No More crafted a powerful ad that aired during the Super Bowl. It was so powerful it actually brought me to tears.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know you've called 911. This is an emergency line.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how long it will be?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, ma'am, is everything OK over there? Do you have an emergency or not?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're unable to talk because --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there someone in the room with you? Just say yes or no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. It looks like I have an officer about a mile from your location. Are there any weapons in your house?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you stay on the phone with me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. See you soon. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. But here's the thing, as Deadspin's Diana Moskovitz charges, No More is more about branding the problem than educating the nation about domestic violence and sexual assault. Moskovitz writes, quote, "the brands have a theory as to why they persist. The issues of domestic violence and sexual assault don't have a strong enough brand. So No More came up with a color, teal, a slogan, No More, and merchandise like t-shirts, cups and makeup." Another quote from Diana's article, quote, "surprise, the NFL's big partnership involves ending domestic violence through the power of nail polish, headphones and ugly shoes. And it makes sense, who doesn't want to fight domestic violence and sexual assault by painting their nails? Imagine your girlfriend saying, I love that color, and then being able to respond with, yes, it's my anti-domestic violence polish. It's what we've been missioning all this time," end quote.

Pretty harsh, right? With me now to talk about this, Ariel Zwang. She is the CEO of Safe Horizons and a steering committee member of No More.

Welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

ARIEL ZWANG, CEO, SAFE HORIZONS: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: First off, explain to us what a steering committee member of No More is.

ZWANG: No More is a public awareness campaign, and their steering committee is a group of nonprofits like mine. Safe Horizons is the largest nonprofit provider in the country of services to victims of domestic violence. And we know that people suffer in silence and in shame because there's not enough awareness of the issue. That's why we work together with No More and are delighted with everything they're doing to raise awareness of domestic violence.

COSTELLO: So I take it you think Deadspin's criticisms are unfair?

ZWANG: You know, the main criticism that Deadspin seems to be making is that No More is a public awareness campaign, but No More is a public awareness campaign. We do need more awareness so that the crime -- people don't under report, suffer in silence and live unaware that help is available.

COSTELLO: See, here's the thing that I think that's in some people's heads. You know, it's great when we see like football players wear pink during the games, but if you're really a victim of that particular disease, right, do you sit back and do you -- and say, wow, that's really helping me through this? For example, if a domestic violence victim takes a look at football players wearing teal on their uniforms somewhere, does it really help them? ZWANG: You know, I look at this a little bit differently. I'm old

enough to remember 30 years ago the way people thought and didn't talk about cancer, about AIDS, and that's not so different from the way people are not talking about domestic violence as well. So, to me, it's more an aspect of overall societal awareness and keeping society aware that these are terrible problems and need help and need action.

COSTELLO: I think there is a sense there's a lot of money flowing into groups like yours. Safe Horizons with $48 million in 2013 and Joyful Heart with more than $4 million in the same year. And everybody wonders, you know, because campaigns like No More help you guys raise money, and that's a good thing, right? But people do wonder how much of that money is going into the programs that really educate the public about domestic violence.

ZWANG: No More doesn't raise very much money, but the money that it does raise all does go to service providers like Safe Horizon, like the other steering committee members, who every single day of the year are working to assist people who have been victimized of the worst crimes, the worst things that people do to each other.

COSTELLO: And I'll just ask you one more question about the merchandising, because we just saw it. It's just -- because, really, this campaign should be directed at men, right? Because they're the ones, the abusers who need to be educated through the NFL, right? So when you -- when you put out products like these, I don't think men are going to buy and wear these things. They're not going to buy their sons these T-shirts or cups, are they?

ZWANG: Domestic violence awareness is not only for men. Everybody needs to be aware of domestic violence, and whether or not you buy a T-shirt or a cup, if society is more aware that this is a very prevalent issue. The Centers for Disease Control says one in four women in their lifetime, and one in seven men, will be a victim of intimate partner violence. Everyone needs to know and be aware.

COSTELLO: All right, thank you so much for having the conversation with me. I know it was hard, but I sure appreciate it. Ariel Zwang of Safe Horizons, thanks so much..

ZWANG: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, we're talking to a former surgeon general to find out if concern over the current measles outbreak is overblown.

And we'll follow the money behind the anti-vaccine movement. You won't believe it. Cristina Alesci has that story.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol. We'll break down exactly who is funding all of those scary messages about vaccine safety.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Curious parents searching for information about vaccines will often find slickly-produced websites and videos online distributed by groups warning against routine shots for measles and chicken pox. But getting that message out doesn't come cheap. Cristina Alesci follows the money behind the anti-vax movement.

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ALESCI (voice-over): Have you ever thought twice about vaccinating your child? Here's the money behind the message.

Let's start with the loudest voice -- the National Vaccine Information Center. They're the group that promotes the alleged risks of vaccination through flashy campaigns, billboards, a Jumbotron in Times Square, even a short film airing on Delta's in-flight network.

But how does the NVIC fund these campaigns? With the help of wealthy families like the Dwoskins. Albert and Claire Dwoskin's foundation donated at least $260,000 to the NVIC, but that's not their only contribution. The Dwoskin Family Foundation funneled about $950,000 from 2011 to 2013 to the University of British Columbia to fund research, including a study that linked aluminum in vaccines to neurological disorders.

They also helped finance a documentary, "The Greater Good", which featured one of the study's doctors. The film profiles children who developed illnesses, including autism, and suggests vaccines are the cause.

Another wealthy businessman, Barry Segal, also taught the ties between autism and vaccines. He founded Focus for Health and it gave more than $170,000 to a similar advocacy group, Generation Rescue. Former financier J.D. Hanley and his wife Lisa founded Generation Rescue in 2005, but you may know the organization better by its celebrity face, Jenny McCarthy. She has claimed vaccines caused her son's autism in various television appearances, including CNN.

JENNA MCCARTHY, CELEBRITY: Without a doubt in my mind, I believe vaccinations triggered Evan's autism.

ALESCI: Generation Rescue used McCarthy's face to raise awareness and money -- and some of that money supported one of the most controversial critics of vaccines, Andrew Wakefield, the former doctor from Britain whose 1998 study linking vaccines to autism sparked the current anti-vaccination movement. In 2010, the study was discredited and retracted by the journal that originally published it. England stripped him of his medical license.

Soon after, he received $100,000 check to continue his research at his company, Strategic Autism Initiative. Who signed that check? Generation Rescue. Two of the organizations CNN contacted insisted they were not anti-vaccine but rather advocates for safe vaccines and the right to choose. The third did not respond to requests for comment. However, most of their research finds fault with vaccines.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ALESCI (on camera): Now Carol, one of the things that struck me while I was reporting is why are these people so committed to raising concerns about vaccines? The doctors we spoke to said they generally fall into three groups -- anti-government, the people that don't want the government meddling in what they see as a personal decision; people who are very focused on living a natural life and think vaccines run counter to that; and the third group, which I like to call conspiracy theorists, who say that doctors make money for administering vaccinations.

And all of those arguments fall apart when you consider the risks that you are putting others -- that you are exposing others to by not vaccinating your children. And the fact is the science supports the safety and efficacy of these vaccines, Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes, we're going to talk about that next. Cristina Alesci, many thanks to you.

Two California lawmakers trying to put an end to California's reputation as being the epicenter of the anti-vax movement. They're introducing a law that will put an end to the personal belief exemption that allows children to skip their vaccines before entering school. In a statement, State Senator Ben Allen said, quote, "The high number of unvaccinated students is jeopardizing public health not only in schools but in the broader community. We need to take steps to keep our schools safe and our students healthy."

Well, let's talk about this. I'm joined by former Surgeon General Richard Carmona. Welcome, sir.

DR. RICHARD CARMONA, FORMER SURGEON GENERAL: Hi, Carol. How are you? Nice to be with you.

COSTELLO: Oh, it's great to have you with us. So you heard Cristina's story about the money behind the anti-vax movement. One way to totally eradicate their efforts is to pass laws requiring that all children be vaccinated, right?

CARMONA: Well, certainly that's a way. And the government does have a compelling interest here, because the individual rights, of course we want to listen to the parents and what their concerns are, but those individual rights when they don't vaccinate children against the best science actually have a ramification in society where we see a spread of disease like is happening now. So the government may need to get involved to make sure society is safe and healthy.

COSTELLO: In your opinion, does the government need to get involved, especially now?

CARMONA: Absolutely, they do. They should be watching and I believe they are. We would hope -- as Surgeon General, I would say that we want to educate the public, give them the best information, raise their health literacy so they can make informed decisions. In this case, use the best science to make a decision to have your children immunized, to protect them, your family, as well as the nation.

When they don't do that --

COSTELLO: But, as you can see, some people aren't doing that, Doctor. So doesn't the government have to make hard and fast laws to get your kid vaccinated?

CARMONA: It may be that. As I said, as a Surgeon General, I would prefer to try and educate the public to make these decisions, but when they don't, the government has a compelling interest to get involved because the health and safety of society is at risk, as well as the rising cost of healthcare if we have these diseases that continue to spread.

COSTELLO: OK, we've done a lot of stories on this measles controversy on CNN and some people have criticized us because there are just not that many cases in the country when you look at it in the bigger picture, like 102 cases nationwide. Are we right to be concerned, Doctor?

CARMONA: Yes, we should be concerned. Go back just a few months ago, remember Ebola started as one case, and then it became a pretty significant epidemic with death and we still have problems. Measles is very, very contagious. And it has significant complications as it spreads. Children can die. Children can have irreparable harm over the long term. They can get pneumonias and so on. So it is very important that we stop the spread of this disease.

COSTELLO: And is there a message you'd like to send to people who say they don't want to vaccinate their child?

CARMONA: I would say take another look. The best example I can tell you is all my four children have been vaccinated. Everybody in my family that can be vaccinated gets vaccinated. The science is very clear. The public health ramifications of vaccination are legendary. It's one of the best advances in science in the history of mankind, being able to prevent diseases such as polio and measles, which used to plague society. Get your vaccinations. It's good for your children, your family, and for the nation.

COSTELLO: All right, Dr. Richard Carmona, former Surgeon General, many thanks to you. I appreciate it.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

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