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ISIS Claims Hostage Killed; Jury Visits Hernandez's Home

Aired February 06, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news here on this Friday afternoon. Thank you so much for tuning in to us here at CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here's where we begin with this claim by ISIS just days after the terrorist released that video showing one of their hostages, that Jordanian pilot, being burned alive in the cage. The news now that ISIS is saying that 26-year-old Kayla Mueller, the American aid worker they were holding hostage, has just been killed.

But here's the thing. They're saying it wasn't by their own terrorist hands. They say this was by the hands of Jordan. ISIS is now claiming this happened today in Syria, in this Jordanian air strike on the ISIS stronghold of the city of Raqqa. All of this, they say, is the aftermath of the rubble where the woman was buried.

But, let me be crystal clear here. There is zero proof of this and already a huge dose of skepticism. Jordan, in response, saying this. Quote - this is from their interior minister. "They tried to cause problems internally in Jordan and haven't succeeded. They are now trying to drive a wedge between the coalition with this latest low PR stunt."

The State Department, so far, backing off this claim, refusing even to confirm ISIS was holding Mueller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIE HARF, DEPUTY SPOKESWOMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: I cannot confirm those reports in any way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know -

HARF: Obviously people are looking into them, but cannot confirm them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Do you know if the -- if the woman in question is alive still?

HARF: We're just not going to get into specifics about Americans being held overseas for privacy of them, of their families. Obviously, as you can imagine, these are very sensitive situations. So we're just not going to get into those details.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it - is it your understanding that the Islamic State was holding an American woman without identifying whom?

HARF: We've said -- we have said that there are a number of Americans being held overseas, including still by the Islamic State. I'm not going to get into further details than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's kickoff our coverage first in Jordan, in Amman, with CNN's Atika Shubert.

And we heard the interior minister, Atika, say, this is just a total PR stunt on behalf of ISIS, that there is zero proof that their air strikes have killed this young woman. But there's also no proof it didn't happen. Are they investigating, Atika?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're certainly looking into this. But as far as they're concerned, they've been dealing with an entity, ISIS, or as they call them Daesh, that's done nothing but lie and finally murder that Jordanian air pilot, Muath al-Kasaesbeh. You remember that ISIS had been saying for the last month that they might trade him for a prisoner in Jordanian jails. And in the end, it turned out they had killed him weeks ago in the most brutal fashion.

So as far as the Jordanian government is concerned, there is no reason to believe ISIS. They see this simply as a PR stunt and lies. And they point to several things, which is that, first of all, ISIS claims that the hostage was the only one that was killed. That there was nobody else in the building guarding her. And, obviously, the Jordanian government says this seems highly unlikely if she was being held there against her will as a hostage.

Secondly, ISIS says that it's specifically Jordanian planes that carried out the air strikes. Well, as you know, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to identify an F-16 fighter jet from the ground as the specific plane that carried out a strike. So these are two very good reasons to be treat - to be treating ISIS' claims with deep skepticism. And as far as Jordan says, this is simply a way for ISIS to drive a wedge into the coalition.

BALDWIN: You know, Atika, there hasn't been very much publicly on this young woman who's from Prescott, Arizona. But just some information I've been handed. And you, do me a favor if you can, and fill in the gaps.

She had traveled to the Turkish/Syrian border to help some of these Syrian refugees. That was back in December of 2012. She was then, in August of 2013, taken captive in the city of Aleppo. And that first proof of life and the communication with her family didn't come until May of 2014. So she had been in captivity for a year and a half.

SHUBERT: Yes, for an incredibly long time. I mean part of the reason we did not hear about this case so much is, obviously, the family and the U.S. government was trying to keep this quiet for many times in the hope that they would be able to negotiate possibly her release. But this is a very disturbing case. And one of the things I should point out is that ISIS are masters of

propaganda. And in each of the cases in which they have brutally murdered hostages that they've been holding, they've come up with excuses and reasons. In this particular case, we're talking about a young woman who was nothing but an aid worker. She very selflessly came out to help refugees in Syria. And so to even by ISIS standards, to kill a young woman like this who had - with nothing in her background that could possibly have implicated her in any way, would have been probably a PR disaster for them. So a lot of terror analysts I've spoken to says it's quite possible that she was killed beforehand and this is just one way for ISIS to cover up their handiwork and not deal with any of the bad PR they would get.

BALDWIN: Just as this Jordanian pilot apparently was killed many weeks before they publicly put out this video. It could absolutely be the same situation with this young woman. Atika Shubert, excellent reporting for us in Amman, Jordan. Thank you.

Let's go to the White House now, to our correspondent there, Michelle Kosinski.

And we played at the top of the show a little bit from Marie Harf, a State Department spokesperson, you know, saying she cannot confirm this ISIS report in any way whatsoever.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BALDWIN: How has the White House responded, if at all yet?

KOSINSKI: Yes, this is clearly a coordinated response, saying exactly the same thing as the State Department. It's basically a two pronged statement. First, that they are deeply concerned about these reports. And, secondly, that there is no credible evidence right now to corroborate what ISIS is saying.

The White House went on to say that the intelligence community is looking into this. That as regards this hostage, we've been used all resources available to try to secure her safety. But there's really no more information available at this point. Basically they are trying to gather information.

And we just heard from National Security Advisor Susan Rice too, speaking on the president's strategy for national security, including combatting ISIS. And she reiterated what we've heard from the administration many times now when the question was asked about this hostage, that we don't make concessions to terrorists. That's along the lines of the policy of not paying ransoms because there have been reports out there that there was a ransom asked for this female hostage.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much. If you get more from the White House, let us know.

You know, so, let me just move on and say, if this is true, this could play right into ISIS' hands.

Fareed Zakaria is with me, host of CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS."

There's a lot to sort of tackle here. There's a lot of ifs and maybes. You know, in one sense, this is again from the Jordanian interior minister saying this is a total PR stunt and this is the perfect way for ISIS to try to drive this wedge and have America being a U.S. hostage perceive that it was the Jordanian air strikes that killed this young 26-year-old. My question would be, if ISIS is capable of burning a man alive and taking credit for that, why not take credit for killing woman?

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, I think because, as the Jordanian minister is suggesting, they're hoping that it will make the United States, you know, upset with Jordan. Frankly, this is another miscalculation by ISIS because the truth of the matter is, the United States is actually very, very understanding of the messiness of war. I mean we, unfortunately, lose a lot of our brave men and women, America loses a lot of its brave men and women in friendly fire. Things happen in war. I don't think even if this were true -- and it's a very important caveat that we keep making, we don't know if this is true. But even if it were true, it's not going to make the United States feel that Jordan has in some way let them down. You know, this is war. War is hell and it's complicated and messy. And, of course, things like this could happen. The Jordanians clearly wouldn't have intended this.

But as we keep pointing out, how on earth would you know that this was a Jordanian plane?

BALDWIN: Right.

ZAKARIA: Often these are coalition sorties with multiple nationalities involved. I think they were claiming it happened during Friday prayers and the video date, you know, lines seems wrong. There's a lot of stuff going on here that makes one think this is another one of those last minute efforts that ISIS has made. Remember, the last round, they took the Japanese hostages hoping to get ransom. That didn't work out. Then they tried to trade. That didn't work out. So, you know, they're not as smart as they seem.

BALDWIN: Here's my other question, because we have known sort of out in the eather (ph), that there was this, you know, young female American hostage. And, you know, we talked a lot about -- from a religious scholarly perspective, that it's against the Hadif (ph) to burn anyone dead or alive -- alive. Killing a woman in this culture, can you underscore how that is a total no no?

ZAKARIA: Well, it's a - it's clearly a no no, just as it is in any culture. You know, women and children are regarded as, you know, particularly, you know, non-combatants and, you know, should not be harmed. It's also true that the fact that she's an aid worker means that she is in no sense involved in the conflict other than just taking care of people who are affected by it. Frankly, she could have been taking care of people who were sympathizers of ISIS and were driven out by the Assad government. This is - this is -- I have to say, this is America at its best, you know, this woman, to go from Arizona, all the way 6,000 miles --

BALDWIN: She wanted to stand with the Syrians.

ZAKARIA: Yes, and to just trying and help out. And for them to have killed that person, to have taken that person captive, forget what else has happened, is just so ghastly. And I think that anyone, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Seath (ph), Jewish, would regard this as abomination. And I don't think you need to have a particular religious perspective on it. It's just in -- it's in - it's inhuman.

BALDWIN: Agree. We have just turned around some sound from Susan Rice. Let's take a listen together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We're, obviously, very concerned about the reports that have come in, in recent hours. We do not, at the present, have any evidence to corroborate ISIL's claims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: National Security Advisor Susan Rice reacting to this news.

It was Michelle Kosinski saying, listen, this is a both coordinated response from behalf of State and White House. How does or how should - in as soon as we really do learn the facts in this whole thing, how should the White House respond? I mean I know Jordan has excellent intel and I have to imagine Jordan would be working quite closely with the administration on this.

ZAKARIA: They would. To be fair, it's going to be very difficult to figure out because this is an area that is controlled by ISIS. And so the only way we would know is if ISIS provides some proof. If it doesn't, it's probably going to be very hard. There's a limit to how close you can get with satellite imagery. Maybe there was some contact. But I would guess that they're going to have to wait until they find some kind of more definitive proof from ISIS.

BALDWIN: That's my other question. If we're talking - if they're claiming this happened in Raqqa, this is the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa, that would presumably be a location in which these air strikes, these sorties, would be hitting. If ISIS is saying this young woman was being held in this location, would that not surprise you? Wouldn't you, if you realized these hostages are so prized, keep them elsewhere, somewhere secret, somewhere safer?

ZAKARIA: You know, my view has always been that groups like ISIS are not nearly as smart as we think they are. They get - they - they're brutal.

BALDWIN: I'm giving them too much credit.

ZAKARIA: Right. They're brutal and they're evil. But, you know, these are 25-year-old kids from, you know, various places, often almost by definition somewhat troubled, demented in some cases. So, you know, they may not have the, you know, the master plan out here. And, you're right, it doesn't make sense. These people should be

dispersed. And it makes no sense that she would not be guarded. So there a lot - there's a lot of things here that don't make -quite make sense. It also seems like an attempt to create a, you know, to stay in the news, to create another public relations event and, yes, to drive a wedge. But you know what's interesting about these kind of groups, they often miscalculate about the reaction of the United States and the west and, you know, things like that. So these things sometimes have the opposite reaction. I think I can confidently predict, even if this terrible thing did happen, and we don't know whether it happen and I think it's important to keep hope alive in that sense, but even if it happened, the United States and Jordan are not going to have a rift over this. This is the fog of war. These things happen.

BALDWIN: It just doesn't add up. Fareed Zakaria, thank you very much. "Fareed Zakaria GPS" 10:00 a.m. Sunday mornings here on CNN.

Just ahead, we have much more on our breaking news here, including what the CIA may be doing right now to confirm this claim from ISIS. Again, it is just a claim at this point.

Plus, what this young woman went through a year and a half as a hostage, a prisoner, of ISIS.

Also breaking news in another war spiraling out of control here. The United States left out of this face to face meeting with Vladimir Putin as Ukraine says Russia is stepping up its offensive. Stay right here. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is a special live coverage here of this breaking story.

Kayla Mueller, this 26-year-old young woman, this American held by ISIS for a year and a half, she was doing work in Syria, she wanted to help the refugees, when she was taken hostage by this terror group as she was apparently walking out of a hospital. She was working in the hard hit citizen of Aleppo. This is 2013 when she was captured leaving this humanitarian hospital. She was then held for more than a year without any contact.

And then, fast forward to May of 2014. That was when her family was contacted and provided proof of life. Here's the news just in the last hour or so. ISIS is now claiming that Kayla Mueller was killed in this bombing in this building where they say came under fire from air strikes launched by Jordan.

Meantime, Jordan's government is responding very swiftly saying this is all just a PR stunt. This is their quote, "PR stunt from this terror group and should not be trusted. This is just about driving a wedge between members of the coalition."

Joining me now, Aki Peritz, former CIA counterterrorism analyst.

And, Aki, I mean, there are - first, when you think about how this young woman was held by ISIS for a year and a half, what kind of conditions would she have been in all that time?

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Oh - hi, Brooke. Her conditions probably would have been awful. Something that we wouldn't wish on our worst enemies. I mean, if you look at any of the hostages that have been sort of released from ISIS and in these other groups are constantly shifted from place to place. They're held in terrible conditions. They are, obviously, malnourished and kept in dank cells and treated probably very, very badly. Potentially, maybe she was treated a little bit better because she was a woman, but we really don't have any knowledge about how she might have been treated sort of in the macro (ph) level.

BALDWIN: And then, Aki, when I'm looking at this timeline, so she had traveled to the Turkish/Syrian border to provide help. This was in August - this was in December of 2013, August of 2013, that's when she was taken captive in Aleppo. When I look at August 2013 in Aleppo, I mean that is before, you know, this group really started gaining the momentum and we really started covering them month to month to month. Can you just take me back to August of 2013 and also what was happening to Aleppo at the time?

PERITZ: Well, listen, Aleppo was one of these sort of crucial areas which were being fought over, both by the Syrian government and by a variety of rebel groups. And if you actually look at pictures of Aleppo right now, it's been totally destroyed. This is one of the nicest, most pleasant places in Syria before the war and now it's a place that has been sort of decimated on all fronts, which is unfortunate. And, fortunately, this individual, who was trying to really help the Syrian refugees get through a really tough time, was taken by this organization that had nothing on their minds but using her demise, really, for propaganda purposes. And now here, in 2015, we've seen the end, unfortunately.

BALDWIN: Apparently the end, this is the end, you know, according to ISIS. But in May of 2014, this is when the first contact was made to the family confirming her captivity. They provided a proof of life. What kind of communication - I mean behind the scenes, Aki, would have been going on between that time, between the U.S. government, between this terror group, between this family even?

PERITZ: Well, we all - we all know that this - ISIS and other organizations, these rebel and Islamic organizations, all have relationships with a variety of individuals throughout the Middle East and also some governments. So, every time there's a hostage negotiation between let's say France and Germany and one of these rebel groups, it's usually done through a third party.

And so the question is, who are these third parties that they were talking to? They had to get that proof of life from somewhere in Syria to her family. And so maybe it passed through a third party. Let's say Qatar or another group or nation. Now, the United States, obviously, has been trying to locate this person for - ever since she was really taken. And, unfortunately, based on what has happened today, it's possible that she was unable to be found. And that is really an unfortunate piece, but that's -- that's basically how many of these hostage situations really end is with unfortunately the demise of - the apparent demise of the hostage itself -- herself.

BALDWIN: We're looking at her face. Kayla Mueller, 26 years of age, from Prescott, Arizona. And I'm just so mindful as I'm, you know, learning more about her, of her family, of her parents and, I mean, when -- when we talk about proof of life, how is that done? What are examples of that, Aki?

PERITZ: Well, I mean, the sort of - I guess the traditional one that we might see in movies is, you take a photo of the person holding a recent newspaper. That's an easy one. Another one is, if you get the person on the phone or you get some sort of picture that puts that person with some sort of event that you can sort of triangulate and you say that this person is alive at this point. And that's one of the reasons why it seems that, in the previous episode with the Jordanian pilot, ISIS was not able to provide proof of life because they had already killed him.

BALDWIN: That's exactly right.

PERITZ: And so the fact is, there is no proof of life. And, in fact, this is actually quite interesting. If they're willing to show destroyed buildings, but they're not actually willing to show proof of death. This is an organization that has no problem with showing dead bodies, dead children, dead women. But they haven't shown anything. So I think that's very suspicious. And we should take it with a huge grain of salt, their claim that she was killed by a Jordanian air strike.

BALDWIN: One hundred percent agree. Aki Peritz, thank you very much.

PERITZ: Thanks.

BALDWIN: We're going to keep asking the questions, getting some answers.

Just ahead, we'll take you live to Iraq on the front lines in this war on ISIS for more on reports from the terror group that this young woman, this American hostage, has been killed.

But next, moments ago, a field trip for the jurors in this former NFL star's murder trial. You know where they went today? Aaron Hernandez's home. What they say. How that could influence them. What was covered up. The new video just in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We'll take you back to our breaking news on ISIS and their claim in just a moment.

But first, just a little bit ago, in the trial of Aaron Hernandez, jurors are getting a chance to see something in person, not just the former NFL star, the former New England Patriot, but also see his home, seen in these images we've just turned around here for you, as well as the home of the man Hernandez allegedly murdered. Today this jury took a trip to these locations, as well as to the industrial park where the body of Hernandez's friend Odin Lloyd was found. Remember, he was just 27 years of age. And this is all part of the prosecutor's case to prove that this former New England Patriot, who used to be worth $40 million, orchestrated the killing in 2013.

Joining me now, Mark Geragos, our CNN legal analysts.

And, you know, I know you've done this on a number of occasions, taking jurors out to certain locations. Why - why would you want to do this if you're a prosecutor?

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You don't if you're a prosecutor. I mean usually the prosecutors fight this tooth and nail. In O.J.'s case, they fought it because they said that the house itself was a shrine to O.J. Here, the prosecutors have been kind of pushing back and saying that it's not in the same condition -- Hernandez's house is not in the same condition that it was back then.

In cases where I have had it where prosecutors have wanted to take you out there, it's usually when the prosecution wants it, they want to show you that some place is dangerous.