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CONNECT THE WORLD
Aired February 6, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Three days after the grisly death of a young fighter pilot was made public, a nation continues to pray, mourn, and perhaps above
all seek retribution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN (through translator): We stand today with the family of the martyr, the hero, Moaz.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Not long ago, this man was struggling to unite his country in the U.S.-led fight against ISIS. Now, King Abdullah is leading from the
And Jordanians of all faiths and family backgrounds, (inaudible) tragedy of the recent past to pave the way to a safe future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all now know very, very clearly in the ugliest possible way who this enemy is. And we're going to go after them and we
will eradicate them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Live from Amman, this is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson.
Well, I'm joining you up from Amman, the capital of Jordan this evening. I've been here for two days now witnessing not just the grief, outrage and
disbelief the murder of a young Jordanian pilot has brought to this nation, but also the solidarity.
After Friday prayers, demonstrators took to the streets rallying behind their king's promise of vengeance against ISIS.
Now we've already seen some of that vengeance for a second straight day. Jordan launched airstrikes on targets in Syria. You're looking at footage
now from the start of that operation named Moaz the Martyr after the pilot who was burned alive by the militant group.
Jordan's foreign minister says his country is going after ISIS with everything they have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NASSER JUDEH, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: It's actually the beginning of our retaliation over this horrific and brutal murder of our brave young
pilot, but it's not the beginning of our fight against terrorism and extremism. We've been in this current effort for a good few weeks now,
actually at the forefront of it. And we've been fighting terrorism and extremism for a number of years.
So, yes, we're upping the ante. We're going to after them wherever they are, with everything that we have, but it's not the beginning and it's
certainly not the end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Jordan's military action against ISIS is being fueled by the outrage that has spread across this nation. For more on that, here is
CNN's Atika Shubert.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A day of reflection after a week of grief and anger. At Amman's King Hussein mosque, hundreds
gathered for Friday prayers watched over by portraits of Moaz al-Kasasbeh, or as he is now simply known Moaz the Hero Martyr.
The crowds spilled into the streets with pledges of solidarity and revege.
Jordanian fighter jets are buy carrying out that mission. On Friday, Operation Moaz the Martyr hit more ISIS targets in Syria. The Jordanian
military released this video of women loading bombs on their planes "from the people of Jordan, wrote in chaulk."
In the war against DAISH (ph), the Arabic word for ISIS, it may be a long battle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more DAISH (ph). DAISH (ph) cannot frighten us. DAISH (ph) just like that one day they will be gone with the wind.
SHUBERT: For now it is Jordan that is leading the charge.
Atika Shubert, CNN, Amman, Jordan.
ANDERSON: Well, we have heard from the Jordanian government that the airstrikes that we have seen so far are just the start of the response
against ISIS. Joining me now is Jordan's Interior Minister, Hussein Majali. If this is just the start -- sir, please join me -- what happens next?
HUSSEIN MAJALI, JORDANIAN INTERIOR MINISTER: Well, as you've stated, it is just the start. And those forces of darkness, forces of evil, they probably
use the torch and they've used some kerosene, but as far as we're concerned, we've just opened up the gates of hell on them. And they haven't
seen the best of it yet.
And there will be combined operations. There will be security operations. And we will not stop till this forces -- these forces of darkness are
ANDERSON: Are you satisfied that you have the support the regional allies and what you need from the United States at this point?
MAJALI: We are extremely satisfied. The United States have gone the extra mile for Jordan. We look at this coalition -- we look at our selves as
principals in this collation. This our war. This is not the West's war. We are the spearhead of this war and His Majesty in his latest visit just a
few days ago to the States, I think he was promised extra assistance on military hardware, which will make our forces more effective and more
ANDERSON: How significant has this week been for Jordan?
MAJALI: I believe this is -- every crisis, we discover ourselves. We're united; we're one voice; we're rallying around His Majesty the King, whom
we look at as a guardian, as a father. It's not a joke. He's our father, he's our guar -- he's our linchpin. And we've given him a carte blanche in
order to stop them.
ANDERSON: With respect, I hear from Jordanians that they are united in mourning the very brutal death of the young pilot. But not everybody's on
board with this effort by Jordan. When you talk about eradicating this group, surely you need the will of the people? And people tell me this is
America's war, not Jordan's war.
MAJALI: I'll repeat again: this is definitely not the U.S.'s war. This is definitely our war.
And I would tell you, we have joined and we've given a carte blanche to His Majesty the King and to our armed forces. Not only united in mourning,
we're united in action. This -- I don't want to equate ourselves with this evil force. But we will revenge for our pilot.
ANDERSON: There is certainly a sense of people, as I say, being united over what was this brutal death. I wonder how long you think this public
support, though, will last, given that this was a disunited country ahead of this week.
And what needs to happen next? It feels like there is a window of opportunity here to get on with the job; but things take time, don't they?
MAJALI: Oh, definitely takes time. First of all, Jordan was always united. Probably there were a couple of dissenting voices here and there, but the
majority of Jordan -- that's your point of view; this is my point of view.
ANDERSON: It's just when talking to people here and even sources at a high level.
MAJALI: That's your right, and I mean, that's very professional of you, to get things from both sides. But I believe, in my job, we do monitor, we do
get the feedback of people. No, we are fully geared.
But, remember, this operation is not only a military operation/security operation. There is the war of ideology. This is going to be a very long
war. We've got to fight this ideology, because you might eradicate them in the northern Syrian area and in some areas in Iraq, but the production line
has got to also stop.
So you've got to visit schools, you've got to visit mosques, and programs and all that.
ANDERSON: But I've heard this rhetoric for a year now, this is how we go about annihilating ISIS, not just on a military front but on an ideological
ANDERSON: And yet the group continues with its propaganda; it continues to gain ground in areas. So I ask you again, what do you do? When you talk
about annihilating or eradicating this group, how does that physically happen?
MAJALI: It will. If you notice the last 72 hours, there have been a lot of dissent in, within those groups. The brutal way they come across, people
who came (ph) thinking truly that they are an Islamic nation, so to speak, and they are way too far away from that. And I think they've discovered
that that's not the case. Muslims don't do that. People of the faith, whether Muslims, Christians, Jews, they don't do that. This is way beyond -
- this is subhuman.
And what we've seen -- what we've seen here, if anyone had middle ground knowing who is right and who is wrong, this event was a turning point. It's
a milestone in the defeat of these forces of darkness, not only by governments but by the public themselves, by the people.
ANDERSON: How concerned are you if this isn't a job done quickly? That there is a festering problem on your borders and within your borders, that
of refugees who've turn this perverted ideology because they've simply got nothing else at this point? I mean, you sit on the border with Syria and
Iraq. Clearly, this is a problem for Jordan, but how long do you have and how big a problem is this internal extremist ideology? Be honest.
MAJALI: I'm being extremely honest. Internally, we can manage. But the problem is, as you stated, externally. That's beyond our reach. We cannot
play with the rules of the game in Syria or in Iraq, or any other place where these creatures are breeding. But I believe there is a will, there is
a strategy, and we will continue. We keep going.
And this is where your first question, or second question came in, is we do need help to sustain this campaign, whether the military/security or the
war of ideology.
You should have seen today, Friday noon prayers. There was an immense rally headed actually on the forefront, Her Majesty the Queen. This is a
reflection to all people, and yesterday was also a testament. When people said His Majesty -- or not His Majesty, they've said that some tribes in
the south are not really with it or not. His Majesty, when he arrived to the condolences site, to pay condolences for the people, he was received as
a hero. He was received by the family and he was taken in by the heart of every single person.
ANDERSON: This will continue.
MAJALI: This momentum will continue. Jordanians are very proud people. You can do whatever, but don't insult our pride. And I tell you, a message for
those forces of evil: wait. The best is yet to come.
ANDERSON: Thank you, sir.
MAJALI: Thank you so much.
ANDERSON: I know it's been a very long week. Thank you...
MAJALI: Oh, it has been an extremely long week. Thank you.
ANDERSON: ...for joining us here on CNN, the interior minister of Jordan. I'll let you go there.
We will be following this story throughout the hour. It's just a few minutes before you'll hear my interview with a Jordanian MP from the Muslim
Brotherhood political party who says she objects to ISIS, but also doesn't support her country's participation in the coalition to root out the terror
Also in his death, pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh has become a national hero. We go to his hometown where King Abdullah has visited and promised his family
vengeance against ISIS.
Plus, we explore another group's fight against a militant organization. That'll be Kurdish Peshmerga forces. We're going to look at the high
stakes they have in this fight and what they say is needed to win.
Still to come on Connect the World, the leaders of France and Germany take their push for peace in Ukraine from Kiev to Moscow. A live report on
And Egypt's grand mufti gives us his thoughts on the threat posed by DAISH (ph) or ISIL -- ISIS -- and the terror group's radical views of Islam.
This is CNN. You're watching Connect the World with me Becky Anderson live for you tonight from Amman in Jordan. Do stay with us.
ANDERSON: Well, solidarity and support mixed with national pride as Jordanians honored their pilot horrifically murdered by ISIS. You can see
Jordan's Queen Rania among the huge group of marchers in Amman earlier today, the march happening as Jordan's air force carried out and more
airstrikes on targets in Syria.
The government says its aim is to destroy the territory for sentiments shared by protesters in Amman on Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): DAISH (ph) is a gang of stray dogs. We are all against anyone who says we are with DAISH (ph). This is
not an Islamic State. They are gangs. Islam neither burns nor kills.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson with what is a special edition of Connect the World from Amman in Jordan for you.
The Muslim Brotherhood is banned in Egypt as I'm sure you are well aware, but exists as a political party here in Jordan.
This afternoon, I talked to a Muslim Brotherhood MP who objects to the brutality of ISIS, but has problems with her government's support of the
anti-ISIS coalition. Have a listen.
DINA TAHBOUB, JORDANIAN MP (MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD): I hope that the death of Moaz will not be used an manipulated in -- let's say intensifying the
unwise actions towards taking us, or sleepwalking us into a ground offensive.
ANDERSON: Do you accept that ISIL is a threat?
TAHBOUB: It is a threat. But I think that the United States has also exaggerated that threat. We believe...
ANDERSON: In what way?
TAHBOUB: Well, through the media, through you know creating all this idea of that everyone is going to be endangered, everyone should share the
responsibility of, you know, let's say attacking them and containing them.
We believe that they are a threat, but this threat should be dealt with when it comes, you know, to our borders.
ANDERSON: But it has come to your borders? It's in Syria and in Iraq. They see no borders.
TAHBOUB: Well, still -- well, still thing in Jordan, you know, have been under control.
ANDERSON: If you don't support a military fight, what are you suggesting?
TAHBOUB: Let's focus on our internal local frontier, a solid Jordan, a confident Jordan, a Jordan that supports human rights, democracy,
empowerment of its people will be able to face any exterior threats.
ANDERSON: Jordan has bred its fair share of radical fighters over the years. How big a problem today is extremist ideology?
TAHBOUB: Let's say we hope that it's not very big. But you know let's say restricting movements of modern Islam will open more way for radicalism.
This is -- the this is the dichotomy. If you suppress people with moderates thinking that represent the mercy of Islam, the open-mindedness
of Islam, you're opening way for other radical movements. And this is what's happening.
ANDERSON: Well, we talk a lot on this show about interpretations of Islam. For many, ISIS is the embodiment of extremism. But in Egypt, the political
Islam of the Muslim Brotherhood is regarded as a threat to society, hence its banning under the stewardship of Abdel Fatah el-Sisi.
But ISIS is a very real threat to Egypt with pockets of militant activity appearing in Libya to the west and more pressingly on the Sinai peninsula
in Egypt far east with Muslims struggling to work out how the terror group commits its barbaric crimes in the name of Islam.
Egypt's grand mufti told CNN his views on this radical brand of extremism.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We recently witnessed a Jordanian pilot killed by immolation. Is this allowed, according to
SHAWKI IBRAHIM ABEDL-KARIM ALLAM, EGYPT'S GRAND MUFTI (through translator): What happened to that Jordanian pilot is by all means a crime. This
barbaric action is far away from humanity, much less religion. Islam is innocent of this act. We went through a jurisprudence basis that ISIS used
to support what they did and we found that these substantiations are completely false.
LEE: Is extremism becoming a more mainstream ideology? I'm not thinking of just the Middle East, but we also saw the recent attacks in Paris.
ALLAM (through translator): Violence and radicalization have become an international phenomenon that has no home or belief, but a transit through
the entire world. Actually, we have been sending a lot of messages in Egypt for more than 30 years in which we warn the world against the dangers
of terrorism and violence. But our words fell on deaf ears.
Egypt has a leading experience in this regard, because it has suffered from it and warned the world against it.
LEE: We see ISIS dealing savage punishments from lashings to beheadings, but we also see these punishments in Saudi Arabia. Do they stem from the
same strict interpretation of Islam?
ALLAM (through translator): Actually, everything ISIS does is far away from Islam. What it's doing is a crime by all means. What happens in
Saudi Arabia is based on judicial investigations and implementing the predominant law. If it is the case, then we respect the rule of law in
LEE: There have been calls to revolutionize Islam. And we've heard this from the Egyptian President Abdul Fatah el-Sisi. What does that mean?
ALLAM (through translator): First, we value and appreciate President Sisi's call to a new religious discourse, but we are concerned with
renewing the religious discourse as it has been mentioned in the president's speech. By this we mean, renewing the methods, renewing the
tools and renewing the way Islam's teachings are presented. But at the same time, we preserve and uphold the stable pillars of religion. We don't
want to address it. Rattling the pillars leads to destabilizing communities.
LEE: A lot of young Muslims come from western countries. So, for someone who is watching this who is thinking about potentially joining ISIS, what
do you say to them?
ALLAM (through translator): Addressing these youth, we tell them the youth of Europe, the youth of the world, you have to see specialized experts to
understand true Islam, don't take this religion except from those specialized in it.
This religion has been entrusted to you. We warn you, don't follow the temptations that come to you. We tell the youth Islam did not carry a
message of sabotage and destruction, it only came to serve humanity, to achieve world peace, and to bring mercy to the world.
ANDERSON: The grand mufti speaking to Ian Lee.
Well, joining me now to discuss more on this, the role of Islam in Jordan today, and how the nation deals with extremism both outside of its borders
and within, is Musa Shteiwi who is director-general for Jordan University's center for strategic studies. And, sir, please join me.
As the leaders of this country, the king, government ministers have been pointing out, this is, they say, not just a military fight, but a fight for
ideology at this point. We know that there are problems outside of Jordan's borders, right on its borders, and within this country.
How do you fight extremism?
MUSA SHTEIWI, JORDAN UNIVERSITY: First, you know, this group, you know they claim to fight for Islam and using Islam as their ideology. Of
course, we know that they have an extremist interpretation of Islam that many Muslims, many clerics and many Muslims, normal people don't agree with
them. So in that sense, you know, appealing to supporters through Islamic messages, Islamic -- that message is what really will be the battleground
for the hearts and the minds of the people.
ANDERSON: Is there a problem these days in Islam in 2015 that there is no one voice who represents what some people will call moderate Islam, other
people will call Islam.
SHTEIWI: Absolutely. This, you know, have been pointed by many scholars that, you know, there are too many sheikhs and people who (inaudible)
sometimes contradictory is problematic. And there have been many voices -- actually Jordan in particular has been -- you know, King Abdullah has been
key in trying to unify, you know, through Amman message and other efforts, to unify you know the approach and understanding of the tenets and ideas
and principles of Islam.
But normally this, as you mentioned, because of this diversity, these differences you know I think they use religion to recruit people, to send
messages and you know to say this is -- you know, we're fighting for Islam against the infidels and the Shiites and so on and so forth. So there is
ANDERSON: And certainly successfully at times.
So, I'm going to have to bring you back -- for timing I do need to take a very short break and do some other noise -- other news. I'll be back with
you shortly. Thank you.
Live from Amman, this is Connect the World with me, Becky Anderson.
Coming up, as Jordan strikes back at ISIS for the savage murder of a fighter pilot, friends and family of that young man are remembering him as
a hero. We're going to have more on King Abdullah's visit to the pilot's hometown ahead.
First, though, the push for peace in Ukraine. The leaders of Germany and France make their case in Moscow. A headline today. Stay with us for that
story and more.
This is CNN.
ANDERSON: A very warm welcome from Amman in Jordan. You're watching a special edition of Connect the World with me Becky Anderson.
And we will continue to look at the significance of what has been such a big week for Jordan and Jordanians and the consequences of what Jordan has
felt and learned this week going forward in a moment.
I just want to move away from the story here for this, though. Urgent efforts to stop the increasing violence in Ukraine, the leaders of France
and Germany meeting with the Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow after holding talks in Kiev on Thursday.
Now this comes as the conflict in eastern Ukraine takes a rising toll on civilians.
Western leaders accuse Russia of providing weapons and training to pro- Moscow separatists there. But Russia denies it.
Senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is covering this story for us. And he joins us now live from the Russian capital.
Matthew, just how much further have we got since John Kerry has been in Kiev, other leaders now hooking up. Where are we in all of this?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Becky, we're in the midst of what is the biggest diplomatic push to try and bring
an end to this Ukraine conflict that we've seen to date. We've got two key European leaders arriving in the Russian capital -- Francois Hollande, the
French president; Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, to present what's being billed as a new peace plan to bring an end to the fighting in
Now we don't know the details of what the plan involves. We know it's already been discussed in Ukraine by those two European leaders with the
Ukrainian leadership. But details of the plan have not been actually made public at this stage.
But the key figure in all of this of course is going to be Vladimir Putin the Russian president. He essentially will decide whether there's going to
be an end to the fighting in Ukraine, or whether there's not going to be. And there is a meeting, which is just about to get underway right now.
We're waiting to hear word officially that it has got underway at the Kremlin in the center of Moscow where they're going to be talking to
Vladimir Putin and presenting these proposals to him.
Now, the foreign ministry here in Russia has said that Vladimir Putin is prepared or constructive talks with the European leaders and that Russia
will do everything it can to try and quickly resolve the conflict in Eastern Ukraine.
But, you know, we've been down this road before. Other peace talks have forged a truce, but it hasn't been implemented. They've tried and failed.
And at the moment, it's not clear whether this will succeed.
ANDERSON: Matthew Chance is in Moscow for you this evening.
The latest world news headlines, including that story, of course, are ahead. Plus, CNN's correspondent Phil Black is with Peshmerga forces in
northern Iraq. He's going to show us what it's like to be within eye shot of ISIS. That's all coming up after this.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: It is 6:30 in Amman in Jordan, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. The top stories for you this hour.
The leaders of France and Germany take their push for new peace negotiations on Ukraine to Russia with talks with President Putin. German
chancellor Angela Merkel says their initiative is aimed at defending European peace.
A Taiwan aviation safety council says flight data recordings suggest that the plane that crashed in Taipei on Wednesday had problems with both
engines. The stall warning sounded seconds after takeoff, and the plane flew without thrust for more than a minute. At least 35 people were
killed, while 8 others are still missing.
A nine-year-old boy is being detained after starting a fire that killed 17 people at a China warehouse. The blaze broke out on Thursday on
the top floor of the building in Guangdong province. Officials say the boy was playing with a lighter when the fire broke out.
Jordan has completed a second day of airstrikes against ISIS targets in Syria. Two dozen Jordanian warplanes participated. The military has
vowed to destroy the militant group to avenge the gruesome murder of one of its pilots.
There has been an outpouring of support in Jordan for the family of Moaz al-Kasasbeh. This touching photo shows Queen Rania consoling the
pilot's wife during a visit to their hometown yesterday. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh has more on Jordan's tribute to a man who is now a national hero.
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Our bloods, our souls, we sacrifice for you," the crowds chant as King Abdullah
arrives to pay respect to the family of a man who, in his death, has become a national hero and icon.
KARADSHEH: Fighter jets scream overhead as news breaks of Jordan ramping airstrikes in Syria against ISIS. Throughout the day, a constant
stream of mourners from across the country to offer condolences and show solidarity with the family. People are gathered here in the same spot
where just six months ago the young pilot got married.
We asked his father about he king's visit. "He promised us a good promise, that he will bombard ISIS's stronghold until he avenges Moaz's
death and destroys them," he tells us. Al-Kasasbeh says this is only the beginning of the revenge he wants for his son.
A short distance away, in this rural village in southern Jordan, where the pilot was born and raised, women, young and old, gather to grieve. His
mother, just out of hospital, appears frail, numb, hardly able to speak. Others, like 21-year-old Layla, find comfort in sharing memories of Moaz
LAYLA AL-KASASBEH, PILOT'S COUSIN: He always wanted to be a pilot, so -- I know he was really smart. He was a smart guy. And everyone loved
him, and he was like -- well-known and that guy who was so popular and so liked, he had -- he had some character.
KARADSHEH: Layla says his family was proud of what he stood for in life and, ultimately, in his death.
L. AL-KASASBEH: He did something, and he not only lived, he existed. He did something for his country and for his religion. He had to die in
that way to show people how cruel those people are. So, it's sad, and it's heartbreaking, and we're so sad. And we're crying all the time. And when
we're not crying, we're talking about him.
KARADSHEH: His brutal killing seemingly bringing his nation together against a common enemy.
L. AL-KASASBEH: We're now united more than ever. I think we are all united. Everyone had these questions, should we fight them? Should we
not? Should we leave them alone? And now, everyone, they are united. If the king said, let's strike ISIS and kill them, we would all go and do
KARADSHEH: As Jordan begins to strike back, the nation continues to mourn a martyr, and a mother, her son.
ANDERSON: Well, Jomana Karadsheh is in Amman with me now. We've been talking about the significance of what has been a very, very big week for
Jordan. What about the consequences at this point?
KARADSHEH: Becky, there's this feeling here that Jordan has been fighting extremism for a long time, but it just feels that the country now
is at a state of war, that it is going after ISIS, going after these groups.
And people here always felt that yes, there's a threat. But I think this really reminded them of how close that threat is. I haven't seen this
country go through something like that since November of 2005, with the hotel bombings here. So, there was this reminder that yes, this country is
bordered by countries in so much turmoil that Jordan cannot be immune from what is going on.
ANDERSON: The interior minister has just told us this hour, this is not the West's war. It is an Arab war.
KARADSHEH: When Jordan took part in the coalition -- and you remember this, back in September -- there were so many people here saying this is
not our war, why is Jordan taking part? They felt that Jordan was doing this because of its alliance with the United States and the West.
But right now, there is this feeling in this country, so many people who I've been talking to have changed their minds. They say that Jordan
should be taking part in this war, that more Muslim and Arab countries should be standing up and working to fight ISIS.
ANDERSON: I wonder how long that will last. Because you and I have been doing this long enough to have see moments that feel like a defining
moment, moments of -- sort of watershed moment, as we've worked through the years. How long does this support, this galvanization of support last, do
KARADSHEH: It's very hard to tell. And this has been the question for the past few days, because there's so much emotion, there's so much
anger. And I think we need to wait and see what happens after this period of mourning, how people still feel about this.
I think people realize more now what the threat is to this country. They have seen it, they have felt it. The death of Moaz al-Kasasbeh was
really personal to so many people. This is a small country, and it feels like it touched so many people, as you have seen, who don't even know him.
ANDERSON: Jordan, of course, sitting on the border -- sitting right on the border with Iraq and with Syria. This is a country that hosts so
many refugees, which have such a big impact on its infrastructure.
There is an awful lot of poverty, there's an awful lot of corruption in Jordan as well. There is an environment in here, if it is not dealt
with, that will foster and fester extremist ideology, isn't there? Let's face it.
KARADSHEH: Absolutely. And we have seen this. Jordan has a jihadi problem that goes back years. We have seen them -- we've seen Jordanian
jihadists taking part in the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now in Syria. A large number of Jordanians are fighting there. So, it is a big concern
And then you have this feeling of -- these sentiments against the monarchy, against the government. Corruption, as you mention. Things that
do fuel this kind of jihadi movement in the country.
And we've seen it in a town south of Amman, one of the cities, Ma'an. We've seen that there are supporters of these groups.
So, it's a very tough situation for the government. But now you feel the population is really rising up against this.
ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. So, there is an overwhelming change in the sense over what has been a very significant week. Jomana, always a
pleasure. Thank you very much, indeed.
Well, Jordan has joined the US and other coalition partners in ruling out boots on the ground, for now, at least. But many involved in the fight
against ISIS have little choice.
Kurdish Peshmerga ground troops are battling the militant group across northern Iraq. They say the are making progress, but they desperately need
more weapons. CNN's Phil Black now reports for you from the edge of that battlefield.
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sunset falls in this corners of northern Iraq. This is is one of the front lines in the battle
against ISIS. Just over there, across that river, marks the start of what is still ISIS-controlled territory just on the edges of Iraqi Kurdistan.
Across the bridge, that village beyond.
From there, we are told, ISIS almost daily launches mortar fire, rocket fire, and small arms fire in this general direction. And
occasionally, once a week or so, we are told, makes a concerted effort to cross that river, the River Zab, to try and push back the Kurdish forces.
SAID MAHMOUD, PESHMERGA FIGHTER (through translator): A couple of nights ago, it was raining. They crossed the river by boat. We fought
them until morning. When our reinforcements arrived, we forced them to the other side of the river. Aircraft were attacking them.
BLACK: This sector of the battle zone, as the Peshmerga call it, is about 75 miles long, 120 kilometers, following the banks of the river.
Fortifications like this are dotted along it, and it's from these positions that they now maintain their defense.
These Peshmerga fighters are so far the most effective ground troops in the international coalition, trying to force ISIS back from these lands.
They say they are proud to play that role, proud to be fighting with what they describe as the free will.
But when you talk to people here, they also speak of great frustration. They say they have the manpower, the commitment, the desire,
but they do not have the weapons they need to fight effectively.
SIRWAN BARZANI, KURDISH COMMANDER: What we need, we need heavy machine guns, we need weapons. We need far more cars. We don't ask even
about the tanks. But we need the rest. We need all kinds of weapons, because we don't have it, really.
BLACK: One of the real threats to the fighters around here are IEDs, improvised explosive devices, roadside bombs. Kurdish officials tell us
that they are responsible for as much as 70 percent of the Kurdish fighters' casualties. One thing they really want are armored vehicles,
armored personnel carriers.
Everywhere, you see people building them now, themselves, retrofitting armor onto civilian trucks, retrofitting turrets and shooting positions
onto other armored vehicles that they have captures from ISIS.
Now, as nighttime is really beginning to fall, this is the time when the Peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters, are feeling most alert, because this
is the time when ISIS, more often than not, tries to infiltrate, cross the line into Kurdish-controlled territory.
ANDERSON: That was Phil Black's report on what are the foot soldiers in this fight against ISIS. I want to bring back the director general of
the Center for Strategic Studies in Jordan. Musha -- Musa, sorry, Shteiwi.
MUSA SHTEIWI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES, JORDAN UNIVERSITY: Yes.
ANDERSON: Sir, come and join me again. We've been talking about the significance of what has been a monumental week for Jordan. As you reflect
on this week, what are your thoughts?
SHTEIWI: I think this has been an amazing week, from the tragic end of the capture of the pilot, it was a turning point, in my opinion, for
Jordanians. Because before that, not too many people really understood the danger that ISIS poses to Jordan. And some people are ambivalent about
whether this is really our war or not. And --
ANDERSON: Well, the interior minister has told us --
ANDERSON: -- tonight here on this show that this is an Arab war, this is not the West's war. Phil Black just with Peshmerga forces who are, as I
said, the foot soldiers on the ground, frustrated by the lack of equipment, looking for more. There has been an appeal on behalf of those soldiers --
SHTEIWI: The Peshmerga.
ANDERSON: -- by the king to Washington. Will the other allies step up in support? Because that is clearly needed at this point, isn't it?
SHTEIWI: I agree it's an Arab war, but I think it's an international responsibility to support the Arab countries, the Peshmerga in Kurdistan.
Also the Sunni tribes in Western Iraq. Also the Syrians, the Syrian army and so on, and they should, of course, to Arab countries.
So, I think that the major forces that will defeat ISIS are the Arab forces. But I think we need international support. We need also some
political process going on in Iraq and in Syria and in other places.
ANDERSON: The problem is, though, sir, you say it will be Arab forces, but quite frankly, they haven't defeated ISIS.
SHTEIWI: This is --
ANDERSON: We see a lethal show of force by the Jordanians over the past couple of days, but this is by the Jordanians.
SHTEIWI: Of course.
ANDERSON: To a certain extent, it looks as if they're on their own.
SHTEIWI: Well, exactly.
ANDERSON: I mean, clearly the Americans are in the air as well. But you are talking about soldiers on the ground, the Peshmerga and those
tribes that you've suggested in Syria as well, but what else? There must be an appeal --
SHTEIWI: I think -- definitely. And I think the international coalition should revisit their strategy. I think the Arabs have to play a
more important role, like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries.
But also, and very importantly, the Sunni forces in Iraq -- and remember, in 2005, the Sunni population in Iraq defeated al Qaeda, then.
And I think the Sunni have been calling for arming them and others, probably, to create a national guard and enforcing the others. And that's
-- this is the real battle.
And another dimension for why it's an Arab war, because these forces claim to want to establish an Islamic state. And this -- they do not
recognize what they call -- which we call the international regional order.
So, in a sense, it's really between state ability -- between the ability among the states, like Jordan is trying to do, and other --
ANDERSON: But they're all --
SHTEIWI: -- and really creating this Islamic state.
ANDERSON: And there will be people who say they agree with what you say, that this shouldn't be a war against Islam. This is an Arab war, and
that ISIS don't speak on behalf of those who truly believe in Islam.
SHTEIWI: That's right.
ANDERSON: However, there are also those who say that there are many people around this region who don't buy the way that countries run their
SHTEIWI: Yes, of course. I totally agree. There are issues. There are economic problems, there are corruption issues, there are authoritarian
issues in the region. So definitely -- and I think in the long run, this is the way to defeat these types of extremist ideologies. Because they
flourish in such an environment.
But if you can just recall that ISIS grew up dramatically when the state in Syria collapsed, when the state in Iraq collapsed. So, these
issues have to be addressed, but they are in the long run. They cannot be really a short-run strategy. The short-run strategy has to be --
ANDERSON: Annihilation, it seems.
SHTEIWI: -- annihilation and ending this move, and continuously to wage the ideological war as well. And as King Abdullah, the second
admission, this is an Islamic-Islamic war. Not one Arab, but Islamic- Islamic war.
ANDERSON: Sir, it's been a pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much, indeed --
SHTEIWI: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: -- for providing some layers for us this evening.
SHTEIWI: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Live from the Jordanian capital, Amman, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, shocking details of life with an ISIS militant from an
escaped bride. That is up next.
ANDERSON: Live from Amman in Jordan, this is CNN. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson, welcome back to the show.
Now, all of the atrocities committed by ISIS, it was the burning alive of a captured pilot this week that sparked Jordan to take more military
action. But only those who have lived under the militant group's rule and escaped can tell the world about the misery the militants have brought to
the areas that they control.
Arwa Damon spoke with one woman of many who was forced into an ISIS marriage. I want you to hear her exclusive story.
(WOMAN SPEAKING ARABIC)
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hannan apologizes for her tears betraying the depth of her pain, that even
the suffocating black fabric cannot mask.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Even until now, I can't grasp what I've been through, that I went through this. I'm destroyed.
DAMON: When ISIS swept into Hannan's city in Syria, she says anyone suspected of fighting them was indiscriminately detained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Among those who were detained, the reason for marriage was my father. My brother died during
the clashes, and as a memory, my father kept his AK. When ISIS came in, someone told them he had a weapon, so they detained him.
DAMON: Hannan and her mother begged for his release.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): After a bit, my mother came and said to me, "They will release him if you marry the head of the Sharia
Police. His name is Abu Mohammed al-Iraqi." My father's life for my hand in marriage.
DAMON: Abu Mohammed al-Iraqi was his pseudonym. She never even knew his real name.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Every girl dreams of that white dress, of the wedding night. I've been deprived of that. I was
destroyed by this marriage.
DAMON: She speaks haltingly of their first night together when, she says, her husband forced himself on her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There was no emotion. I felt like he just wanted to take what was his right, he had to.
DAMON: Her husband kept her locked up in the house. She was only allowed to use his phone in his presence to call her parents. She was his
prisoner, his maid, and his sex slave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I couldn't go out, I couldn't meet up with anyone. No one could visit. And they forbid thing
at will. My husband, he would detain people for smoking, and then he would smoke at home.
DAMON: Her husband was killed a month after they married, and Hannan says she managed to flee to Turkey after ISIS decided to marry her off to
another fighter. The activist group Raqqa is Being Slaughtered Silently, has documented hundreds of cases of women being forced into becoming ISIS
brides. About a third of them under 18.
Hannan says the instant a girl turns 13, if ISIS spots her, they will claim her. And many like Hannan don't have a choice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): And they marry and they divorce at will. But it was my father's life for this marriage.
DAMON: A marriage that shredded her soul.
Arwa Damon, CNN, on the Turkey-Syria border.
ANDERSON: An example of the type of experience Jordanians want to avoid at all costs. Live from Amman, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me,
Becky Anderson. Coming up, we reflect on what has been a very taxing week for the people of this country and consider what lies ahead. That is up
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ANDERSON: Welcome back. We are closing out this hour by reflecting on what has been a pivotal week in Jordan's modern history. So, what can
we take away from it all? How do we really get a context for this as we look outside of this, the Hashemite Kingdom.
I'm joined again by Jomana Karadsheh. And we are reminded time and time again -- and I work out of Abu Dhabi these days, you work around this
region, and you and I talk on a regular basis -- that the -- it is the rise of political Islam, including but not exclusively about ISIS, that is such
a concern to so many people in this region. How is that fight going?
KARADSHEH: It is very difficult, Becky. You look at it and it seems that you have so many countries that are fighting it on their own. For
example, Libya, as we have seen that, it feels like it's -- the West or the international community leaves these countries to deal with it on their
And there's this fear, that I get this, for example, from that region in North Africa, that they need more support, more help with that battle
And you see here, too, in this region, where people for the longest time wanted to sit out. They did not want to get involved in this fight.
But now, there's this feeling that it's growing, it's becoming a worse problem that they have to deal with it, but they cannot do it on their own.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. All right, well, we're going to continue -- sadly, we will continue to have this discussion on a regular basis. Not
sadly because I don't want you with me on the show, but sadly because the story is such an evil one. Thank you very much.
This has proven a very difficult week for the people of Jordan, and we've seen that time and time again. I just want to leave you now with
some images of the week. As they say good-bye to one of their own and simultaneously prepare for what is a long battle against the militants who
took his life. Leaving you now with scenes from this country over the past week.
From everybody here on the show in Amman, it is a very good evening.