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ISIS Claims American Hostage Was Killed By Jordanian Airstrike; ISIS Possibly Seeking To Rebuild Its Stock Of Western Captives; U.S.- Led Coalition Forces Unleash More Than Two Dozen Airstrikes On ISIS Strongholds; More Artillery Fire Exchanged Today Between Separatists And Ukrainian Forces; NBC Anchor Brian Williams Now Being Investigated By His Own Network

Aired February 07, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. A lot to get to this hour.

First off, there are growing signs today of potential military conflicts on two separate fronts, one a showdown link to a former cold war foe accused of meddling in Ukraine, the other in the Middle East.

First, peace talks with Russia's Vladimir Putin appear to be crumbing and crumbing fast as Russian backed force unleash a fresh round of shelling in Ukraine. Our correspondent on the ground heard this gunfire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If you can potentially hear on the other microphone we have set up, the sound of shells slamming into the area. I was woken by this morning and now as dusk falls, we're hearing again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That is our Nick Paton Walsh. We'll bring you a live report from him in just a moment.

But first, I want to show you this. Just today, U.S.-led coalition forces unleashed more than two dozen airstrikes on ISIS stronghold in Iraq and in Syria. But air power alone likely not enough to push ISIS out of Iraq's second largest city.

The source tells us here at CNN, the U.S. military may recommendation sending ground troops into Mosul to help with targeting, not combat, if ISIS defense exceeds a certain level there.

Joining me now to talk about all of these, former U.S. army Delta force commander lieutenant colonel James Reese.

Thanks for being here, Colonel, Reese. You know, when we talk about ISIS in Iraq, it's a bit more of a success story for the U.S. and for coalition forces than ISIS in Syria. What is your assessment of whether we need U.S. ground troops, as they said, not for fighting on the ground but for, really, better locating the targets. Do we need to see that?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), FORMER SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDER: Look Poppy, you know the attack on to and the assault on Mosul, when that is planned and when that will kick off will based on the timeline between the Iraqis and U.S. advisors that are there. But because it is such a difficult fight, Mosul being a city and the second largest city in Iraq, it will probably behoove us to put controllers, air controllers, some other special forces advisors in there with the teams, for the Iraqi teams to insure we get precision fire and reduce our collateral damage (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: But a, isn't that just boots on the ground? Isn't it just semantics to say it's something different? And b, frankly, after months of heavy airstrikes in Kobani, we were able to drive ISIS out of Kobani.

REESE: Yes. But let me start with Kobani. First off, Kobani was in a pretty major fight. It already had most of your civilians and non- combatants have already started leaving or trying to leave. And what you really had is just a, you know, a fight for the path to ISIS and the Kurdish force is trying to fight to regain that land.

What you have now in Mosul, two million people that are still there living, working, lots of them scared what's going on with ISIS. When that assault comes, it will be like solemn ground or it will be like a battle (INAUDIBLE) we were involved in and there's people there still trying to work, trying to hide. It will be a very difficult, very long fight. This is not something that will last only a couple days. And so, we have to make sure we do this correctly, precisely and having this precision fire will help the Iraqis.

HARLOW: And we have heard reports that ISIS militants are working to get their families out of Mosul. Does that tell you something about their strategy, their defense strategy there?

REESE: Well, if the ISIS fighters are moving their loved ones out of Mosul to a safer place, they're anticipating that that assault by the Iraqis, by the coalition is coming sooner than later. That's what that tells me.

Again, you know, fighting in the city and I fought in the city most of my life. It's difficult. It's hard for both sides and it's tough to continue to find trust and confidence in the metropolis if you start dropping bombs everywhere and flattening buildings. It will happen, just part of the collateral damage. But again, having our capability on the ground helps. I can't stress enough the precision fires.

HARLOW: And when it comes to the fight against ISIS in Syria, you have been very vocal saying time and time again we cannot have long term success if there is not a solution to Bashar al-Assad. Do you still feel that way?

REESE: I do and I said that from the first night we started this. Since we started dropping bombs. The center of gravity in Syria and really, I believe across the border in Iraq in the whole ISIS situation is the removal of Assad in Syria. And again, with the uptick now with the Jordanians, with King Abdullah and getting more of the Arab key nation states involved in the coalition, they're the ones that have to determine that. And we even spoke about the Turks. The Turks want to get involved but they are looking to us on guidance on what is the standard in Syria and how will we do it because the Turks have said time and time again they want a no-fly zone in Syria.

So I'm not sure why we keep backing up, you know, not backing off but why we keep sizing up on the Syria issue. And again, I do believe it's the center of gravity in this whole issue.

HARLOW: Colonel Reese, thank you so much. Stand by. You are going to be joining us on this throughout the hour.

Also this top story, a tragic story and a lot of people want answers. Two parents in Arizona making an emotional plea directly to ISIS. Kayla Mueller's mother and father want ISIS militants to contact them immediately and privately about their beloved daughter. The U.S. has doubts about ISIS' claims that a Jordanian airstrike yesterday killed Mueller. They say there is absolutely no proof of that.

Her parents are both hopeful that she is indeed still alive. They have not received proof of life evidence from her captors. A defense official telling us here at CNN the targets struck Friday by the royal Jordanian air force with the support of U.S. military aircrews was a known ISIL weapons storage compound located near Iraq and Syria. We have seen no indication hostages were held at this location. We continue to review and evaluate all information. Kayla Mueller was kidnapped in Syria back in 2013.

Joining me now our Kyung Lah. She is live in Kayla Mueller's hometown at Prescott, Arizona. Also with me here in New York, Michael Daly, special correspondent with "the Daily Beast." He just wrote a profile of Kayla and frankly, the wonderful, wonderful work that she has been doing over in that region.

Kyung, Let me begin with you. What are we hearing from Kayla's parents, the community? How are they reacting? Because of course, the parents have known since 2013 that she's been held hostage. But that has been kept very, very quiet until yesterday. KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very quiet until yesterday when ISIS,

the strange press release we got named her. So at that point the parents felt compelled that they could start talking about their daughter. They haven't said anything before cameras because there is that intense fear and uncertainty. They were told early on that they should not speak out about their daughter. They needed to keep her name out of the headlines. And that's what they told, speaking directly to the captors in that statement you were referencing, Poppy, they kept her name out. And so, they want those captors to now reach out to them.

We have spoken to people who are close to the family. They tell us that the parents are at home, they're surrounded by spiritual counsel as well as friends and families. Certainly, this is something that is unimaginable for most parents. They are just trying to cope and wait for some string of truth in all of this, Poppy.

HARLOW: And I know, Kyung, you had an opportunity, I believe, to speak with a former teacher of Kayla's?

LAH: You know, a lot of people in this town, because of the population of Prescott is only 40,000, a lot of people knew this woman. They either saw her growing up, they saw her walking the streets as an advocate for the people who are in Darfur, other social issues here. She worked at an HIV clinic. She worked at a women's shelter. And there was a professor -- there is a doctor, a family friend who wanted to say this about Kayla Mueller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The daughter is one of those folks that looks for the good in everything. And in that vein, she goes on ahead and tries to look for her God's sinner with the way she looks in day-to-day life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: You can see, Poppy, how idealic (ph) it looks behind me. This is a charming town. It is a privileged place by world standards. And it's something that this young lady wanted to spread throughout the world. She wanted to fight for social justice in places where there is no justice -- Poppy.

HARLOW: And Kyung, stay with me as we bring Michael Daly into this conversation.

That's exactly what you wrote about. You wrote an article this morning in "the Daily Beast" that says this is ISIS' cruelest move yet. You believe leaving the family dangling, not showing either proof of life or proof that she is indeed dead is just their cruelest move yet.

MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, in a sense is -- I mean, if, you know, you thought when you saw the beheadings and the poor guy being burned alive, you think how could you do anything worse? But I mean, to tell a family your daughter's dead and then having offered proof in all those other instances, but offering them no proof of that and leaving them to doubt.

I mean, I have been in emergency rooms where people are told their kid is dead. And the first thing they want to do is they want to see, they want to touch, they want to kiss. And these poor people are thousands of miles away and they have no idea, you know. And they're hoping she's alive. That's what you want to do. You keep hoping until there is no hope.

HARLOW: As we see day after day that ISIS is simply the worst, the most evil, you write Kayla Mueller is the best of us, the best of America.

DALY: I mean, she's a true American. You know, I mean. You know, there's little kids at the border of Syria and Turkey. And they know that what an American is, is a young lady who comes with them and plays with them and tries to recover from the shock of war and ask them to draw your favorite place and they draw their home that they lost and tell her about the window that doesn't open and the door that squeaks. And that's an American to them. And that's, in my mind, that's the best of America.

HARLOW: I'd agree with you.

Kyung, I know that we are learning more details in the early hours here, one of them being that U.S. and coalition force did attempt a rescue of Kayla Mueller.

LAH: This is a rescue that we learned about because of James Foley. You may remember him. He is an American journalist who eventually was murdered by ISIS. But there was an attempt in July to try to rescue him. It did not work.

What we do know is that as U.S. force were there, there were signs that the hostages had been held there. There were some scribbling inside the jail, there were some hair strands. And a U.S. official tells CNN that those hair strands are believed to have been Mueller's.

So as recently as last July, she was believed to be alive. And so, that is one stitch of hope for this family. But you know, from the people we've spoken to, Poppy, I can tell you that this is a family that is positive, that wants to help. They are very similar in virtue and beliefs as their daughter and they're trying to do the best they can in simply hellish circumstances.

HARLOW: And Kyung, if you could just address for us what we know at this point in time, the "New York Times" reporting that ISIS was apparently willing to possibly exchange Mueller for ransom or for another prisoner being held, I know these are unconfirmed reports. But what do we know about that?

LAH: What we can say about that is what we are hearing from U.S. law enforcement officials is that, yes, there was a ransom offer. In that proof of life that you mentioned, there was a ransom demand. They wanted approximately given a currency exchange of approximately seven million U.S. dollars for Kayla Mueller. That's what the family had heard. They were given proof of life. But from what we understand, you know, there wasn't the money that was exchanged because she was still held hostage. So that's as far as we can go in our reporting.

HARLOW: And Michael, do you know at this point in time whether or not, you know, we have seen these multiple reports that possibly they were willing to exchange her for another prisoner? Have you seen that?

DALY: I heard that. I couldn't say for certain. There is the ransom, I think, is pretty definite. I think early on, I mean, the family's response, anybody's response, if it say we kidnapped your kid, you are going to say I want to know if she's still alive. And in that communication, I think, I heard the figure was $6.3 million but it might have been $7 million.

HARLOW: All right, Michael Daly, thank you. Kyung Lah, thank you for that reporting. We are going to take a quick break, but when we come back, French

president Francois Hollande calling peace talks the last ditch effort to end the fighting in Ukraine. He says quote "if we don't find not just a compromise, any lasting peace agreement we know perfectly well what that scenario will be. It has a name. It's called war."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: On the streets of eastern Ukraine, more artillery fire between separatist rebels and Ukrainian force today and after five hours of talks at the highest level, there appears to be very little progress to any diplomatic solution on this crisis.

Russian leader Vladimir Putin meeting with her chancellor Angela Merkel and also France's president Francois Hollande in Russia. They are trying to rejuvenate a peace deal that has been in tatters since it was signed last year. Merkel today is saying peace prospects remain uncertain but saying she's willing to try. Vice president Joe Biden addressing the crisis while attending a security summit in Germany.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And given Russia's recent history, we need to judge it by its deeds not its words. Don't tell us, show us President Putin. Too many times president Putin has promised peace and delivered tanks and troops and weapons. So we will continue to provide Ukraine with security assistance, not to encourage war but to allow Ukraine to defend itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Nick Paton Walsh joining me now from Donetsk, Ukraine.

Nick, the vice president also saying let me be equally clear we do not believe Russia has the right to do what they are doing. The U.N. releasing this incredibly disturbing numbers saying 224 civilians have been killed and more than 540 injured in just the last three weeks of January. Can you give us a sense of what you are seeing on the ground?

WALSH: Well, going with those U.N. numbers we have seen more care in Donetsk. And that's just a fraction of the civilian dead in this whole area, throwing up by artillery shelling that morgue overflowing, frankly, hard to distinguish between what is civilian and what is military dead here in this conflicts.

But here in Donetsk, you may be ought to hear while I'm talking the pounding of shelling landing increasingly comes towards the city center. That has been characteristic of today. We were woken by that noise. It seems to be on the outskirts but is just closer and closer, frankly, to where I'm standing. And that is basically shows impacting just territories so it makes it more likely as the Ukrainian military showing their strength in their vision here.

But it is deeply, of course, troubling because it's not the backdrop anybody would expect for anything like a peace settlement. We had that lengthy and rather remarkable vision of the heads of Europe's largest economies flying to Moscow to effectively beg Vladimir Putin to sign up to a peace he already agreement to last year and coming out empty-handed. So a very messy situation given the (INAUDIBLE) talks and the kind of rhetoric we're hearing. Back to you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Ad so, what we're hearing, Nick, is that they are going to potentially pick these talks back up on Sunday. I guess I'm wondering from your perspective on the ground there, do you think there is any hope that Vladimir Putin will bend at all or sign anything that he is actually going to stick to in regards to Ukraine?

WALSH: There seems to be a suggestion he's quite happy to sign something that may suggest a change in status of this area of Donetsk. But it's clear that Ukrainian sources don't want to lose that territorial integrity.

But realistically, I am standing in a place, frankly, that is using the Russian time zone and Moscow time consider itself very close to Russia. You see Russian flags in some areas around here. They are changing their internal administration legislation they say and their self-declared republic to be closer to Russia.

If you listen to NATO and Ukrainian -- you can hear those explosions behind me, if you listen to Ukrainian NATO officials, they also believe the force is being fought here are armed, equipped and even staffed by the Russian military themselves. So, it's an extraordinary volatile situation here one in which Moscow clearly has a very strong hand. And separatist force are moving across a lot of territory that came to retake regardless of the (INAUDIBLE) negotiations and in the middle between the Ukrainian military and the separatists both using heavy weapons on each other, of course, thousands of Ukrainian civilians, 5,000 dead so far.

Bear in mind, Poppy, this is a war happening on the doorstep of the European Union.

HARLOW: And you're saying this is a war that many world leaders have been hesitant to use. As Nick, you're reporting we're hearing the shelling behind you. Give us a sense how close that is to you.

WALSH: I have to say we've been coming here for months. And I've never heard it this close at Donetsk city center. And actually, those people living around here also agree this is as close as it's got. It's been all day long that we've been hearing this thudding. It used to be pretty much it seems contained to the airport, which is where there are scenes of mass destruction.

But clearly today, it's been moving much more consistently and we don't know what the precise target is. One official I spoke to said that actually they believe that the firing is coming from the southwest. That will be their bid to suggest the Ukrainian military behind over the separatists territory being hit who perhaps make some sense that it was the Ukrainian military behind it. But it is a very confusing and messy picture. And we got to find out today quite who's been caught in these series of explosions that have been quite remarkably intense today -- Poppy.

HARLOW: The closest that you've heard them over the months that you've been reporting there.

Nick Paton Walsh, thank you for that. Please stay safe, you and your crew. We appreciate you bringing us this story live from Donetsk in Ukraine.

Quick break, coming up on the other side, what is the latest on NBC's Brian Williams? The investigation going on right now into what he said about his experience in Iraq back in 2003. We'll learn more about some of his other reports including hurricane Katrina. Our team has been fact checking them. Our Brian Stelter joins me in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: NBC's embattled anchor Brian Williams now being investigated by his own network. NBC confirming it has indeed launched an internal investigation into stories that Williams told over the years about a 2003 helicopter mission in Iraq.

In a memo to staff at NBC, NBC News president, Debra Turner says quote "as you would expect we have a team dedicated to gathering the facts to help us make sense of all that has transpired. We are working on what the best next steps are."

I am joined now by CNN senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES" Brian Stelter.

First question that comes to mind, why an is internal investigation not an external one. Is it just about a matter of getting something started right way?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: Yes. This is internal but it is not independent because the person heading it is the head of the investigation here in NBC News Richard Esposito and he works for NBC. So people would think it is a conflict of interest.

But on the other hand, maybe this will get it done faster. I talked to a soldier last night who was on the chopper that actually did take the RPG strike. About 15 minutes after I talked to him, the head of NBC investigated called Mr. Esposito and they talked to him as well about what did actually happen.

So clearly, NBC is trying to fact check the stories that Brian Williams has told over the years about Iraq, trying to figure out if news reports by CNN and newspapers and stars and stripes and others are all correct. And if indeed Brian Williams has been exaggerating as years goes on. It seems pretty clear he has, but NBC wants to do its own checking.

HARLOW: When is the question of was it as if misremembering.

STELTER: Innocently.

HARLOW: Right. Which happens or was there more to this?

Let me ask you this. I had heard that he -- did he address staff yesterday?

STELTER: He did. In a meeting the 9:30 a.m. editorial meeting at NBC, profusely apologized. And he said, this is on me. This is -- that I am fully responsible for this. He said he was sorry for the credibility damage that was being done not just to him but the whole news division. because this is -- within matter about of 48 hours, this became a real serious crisis for NBC.

Brian Williams is NBC News, his face is NBC News. So to have him imperiled, really, does imperil the news division. Now, on the other hand, we should say, he has built up his credibility for decades.

HARLOW: And then has to stand for something.

STELTER: In theory that doesn't go away overnight. But if he has lost the trust of viewers, that is going to be very hard to recover from.

HARLOW: I do want us to talk about this issue, of course, some of this other reports are coming under scrutiny. Katrina, for example, reporting that he witnessed a body floating by from his hotel room in the French Quarter and some says that couldn't be the French Quarter. It did not fill with water. However, you guys just did a story on this and talked to someone who was staying at the same hotel who said the water was waist high.

STELTER: That's right. My colleague at CNN Money just put this online, talked to person stayed at the hotel and said, yes, there would have theoretically been possible for a body to be floating down this street.

Now, it is an awful thing to think about. But it is true. There was a lot of death in New Orleans in that area during the storm. Whether Brian Williams witnessed it or not, though, that is being contended. And you know, you do have to wonder did he not film it or didn't have a camera? Did he not talk about it immediately afterwards? Well, he hasn't.

What we have heard from him is silence on this issue ever since Wednesday night when he apologized for the RPG situation. He hasn't issued any comments about the Katrina situation.

My guess is that NBC is asking or telling him not to talk. He is asking him to keep the lid on it while they do their own investigation. And I thought the most notable thing about yesterday's statement you had from the president of NBC News was the lack of any explicit support for Brian Williams.

I don't want to be too presumptive, but it is almost like her finger is up in the air checking the wind seeing how this story is being played and meanwhile the rest of the TV industry is openly speculating about whether he will be suspended or worse. The fact it's even being talked about is a tremendous blow to him. HARLOW: We will stay on top of it. A lot of discussion tomorrow on

your show about it. That's on Sunday morning, 9:00 a.m.?

STELTER: 11:00 a.m. eastern time. But we are going to talk --

HARLOW: How could I get it wrong?

STELTER: Set your DVR. We are going to talk to one of the soldiers who was actually was on the flight that was hit by the RPG because he says he tried to tell NBC ten years ago. And NBC never responded to him.

HARLOW: Brian Stelter, thank you.

STELTER: Thanks.

HARLOW: We will be watching. We appreciate it.

Coming up, a new report that ISIS wants more western hostages. How far will they go to get them? We will discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The parents of an American woman taken prisoner by ISIS have a message for her captors, contact us privately. ISIS is claiming that Kayla Mueller was killed in a Jordanian airstrike in Syria this week. But the U.S. says there is absolutely no evidence of that.

Also, Jordan calling it just a PR stunt. Her parents say they are still hopeful that she is alive. They are now asking ISIS to talk to them.

Also, "the New York Times" is now reporting that ISIS was at one point saying that it was willing to swap Mueller for this woman. Her name is Dr. (INAUDIBLE). She is a Pakistani scientist serving time in Texas for trying to kill American soldiers and FBI agent in Afghanistan back in 2008.

Now, just to reiterate, there is no proof that Kayla Mueller is dead. But a frightening assessment suggesting ISIS is on the hunt for even more hostages.

Let me bring back in lieutenant colonel James Reese.

Thank you for joining us, Colonel. When you look at this report, the middle eastern security source telling us here at CNN that ISIS has drawn out plans to try to go into neighboring country, go into Lebanon, go into Jordan, kidnap westerners there, bring them back, use them as propaganda in these horrific videos, what's your reaction?

REESE: Very possible. ISIS has used this technique to bring terror to try to raise money and they have used it to, you know, bring their plight to life throughout the world. So it's very plausible.

I do think it's a stretch they think they are going to go in different countries and try to kidnap someone and try to cross the border and bring them in. That's a little bit of a stretch, but I think they are constantly looking for folks in Syria or even Iraq they could grab.

HARLOW: So there's also this interesting article on "the Daily Beast" this week that suggests is, some factions are facing this internal conflict, disagreement over a lot of issues such as what to do with their hostages, some really saying burning that Jordanian pilot was a huge miscalculation by ISIS in terms of turning even more people against them.

Do you think that ISIS could become its worst enemy?

REESE: I do, Poppy. And we have seen it throughout. I mean, we see it in our own organizations here in the U.S., in the military, in the government we start to turn on each other when it comes to (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: All we have lost our connection with Colonel James Reese there on Skype connection. We will work on getting him back with him. He is saying he agrees at the assessment by some that ISIS is facing some internal discourse of becoming potentially its own enemy.

Much more on that throughout the next hour here on CNN.

Coming up after a quick break, ISIS hoping the brutal killing of a Jordanian pilot would bring in recruits, help them invigorate people to joint their insane cause and divide the coalition. That plan seemingly backfired and in rage many in the region. Could it hurt them financially as well?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: ISIS may be facing a lot of troubles but funding doesn't appear to be one of them. This is a group that has a lots of money. The terrorist organization funded by crime and well-dressed and well- equipped on the battlefield.

But as CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr explains what ISIS is portraying is somewhat deceiving.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, the photos are fascinating. ISIS fighters dressed up infancy military gear. Look at it, fancy boots, weapons, camouflage uniforms, looking like a disciplined military force.

But officials I talked to in the U.S. government say, of course, don't be fooled. This is part of their propaganda. They want to look like a disciplined military force. They think it's a valuable tool to get them more recruits. But the reality is many ISIS fighters across Iraq and Syria are living in pretty miserable conditions. Many of them still those vicious killers that we have seen in other hostage videotapes, dressed in black, brandishing their weapons, terrorizing people all across the region. These propaganda videos perhaps somewhat manufactured for that audience of foreign fighters that they hope will come to Syria and Iraq and fight on their behalf.

But it's still very interesting, where do they get the gear? Have they stolen it or did they go out and buy it? And if they go out and buy it, it's an indicator that ISIS still has plenty of money to spend -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

Let's talk more about who is really bank rolling ISIS. Joining me, again, Michael Daly, special correspondent for "the Daily Beast."

When you look at this, we've talked a lot since the beginning about how ISIS has taken over oil fields, for example, and they been able to in a really incredible wealth. I just wonder who they're selling that to on the black market.

DALY: Well, until relatively recently they were selling it to Turks, and they were selling to Assad, their supposed enemy, and they were smuggling it out. That's been cut back a little bit. The treasury department last week issued an informal report. And the previous estimate was that ISIS getting about a million dollars a week from oil. I think it's down. It seems to be down about half have that.

HARLOW: Oil prices have been cut in half.

DALY: Plus, they have the oil prices going down. And according to the treasury department there, they estimate that ISIS' big income now is extortion, breaking the gangster stuff. And also, they seize a lot of banks when they seize those parts of Iraq.

HARLOW: They stole gold and cash.

DALY: Right. But the treasury's hope is that those are not self- renewing sources of income. So if you cut back the oil and you cut back what they can do with the banks, then maybe they can start getting feeling the squeeze.

HARLOW: What about what we have seen most and what we are horrified about this is these videos, right, these videos of beheadings, of burning the Jordanian pilot alive. Is there any financial gain for them in that?

DALY: I mean, I don't think You Tube gives them advertising revenue.

HARLOW: But I mean, just in terms of do you think they're successful recruiting funding from supporters that see that?

DALY: I don't think that -- they don't seem to -- I mean, all the people who come to them generally come to them with $5 they have left, you know. I mean, so I don't think that their recruits are bringing them money. And I don't think that there's parts of the world where everybody is kind of kicking in, all right, you know, like the old days of the IRA, people pass the hat in the bar. I don't think that they have that kind of sympathy.

So I think that they raise their money with oil and shakedowns in their territory. And I think that when they have those flashy uniforms and they put out those videos, I mean, what they're looking to get is recruits, you know, people.

HARLOW: Right. What we have seen is quite a backlash among some who may have

supported ISIS before, or at least not stepped in to fight ISIS, now that they've burned alive the Jordanian pilot and put the video out there for everyone to see, I mean, it goes directly against the tenets of Islam to do that. Do you believe this was a miscalculation by ISIS?

DALY: I would think so unless -- I mean, it may just be that their motivation is just to be as bad as they are. I mean, they may not really care that much about the audience. They may just be like this is who we are and this is the way we are going to be. And they may just be following their own evil instincts. And it may not be some mastermind, kind of all right, you know, this is like advertising, it may be they're just bad people.

HARLOW: Well, I think that is certainly clear. And now the fate of this American being held by them is still clearly unknown. We haven't heard anything since they claimed she had been killed in this Jordanian airstrike yesterday. We still just don't no.

Thank you, Michael. Appreciate it very much.

Coming up next, we are going to switch gear and talk about something incredibly important that has been across the headlines for the past week. Measles and vaccines. Actress Amanda Peet speaking out passionately why she believes every parent should vaccinate their children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, the children at the heart of the measles outbreak now hitting Illinois are the tiniest of the victims. Five babies, all under 12 months old, too young to be vaccinated now diagnosed with a highly contagious measles diseases.

As of today Measles has spread to 16 states and in the district of Columbia. The most cases since Health officials thought the disease was eliminated from the U.S. 15 years ago. The debate over vaccinating is children is red right now.

Actress Amanda Peet stepping forward in support of vaccination talking about her owned personal struggle with making that key decision when her first child was born. I spoke with her about why she is speaking out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANDA PEET, ACTRESS: When I first became an ambassador for every child by two it was eight years ago at the peak of the anti-vaccine movement and a lot of my friends weren't vaccinating and were bewildered as to why I was considering vaccinating. And my brother- in-law is an infectious diseases pediatric doctor in Philadelphia and he suggested that I try to get out there and help to disseminate information about the data that's out there on vaccine safety.

So I said yes. The tides have started to turn, thankfully. But at the time it was, you know, I got a lot of hate mail and I lost a couple of friends and --

HARLOW: Really?

PEET: It was -- yes. Yes.

HARLOW: You say that you were torn. When you were having your first child, you were really torn. Ultimately what cause you decide, yes, I am vaccinating my children?

PEET: Well, look, I think we live in a really cynical times and we're constantly being bombarded by notices about safety recalls and it's definitely very hard to have faith in the regulatory agencies in our government. But I think to suggest that the CDC, the World Health Organization, UNICEF, the American academy of pediatrics, (INAUDIBLE) foundation, just to name a few, are all in a massive conspiracy to under play the dangers of a vaccine is a bewildering leap and it begs the question, whom do you trust? From whom are you getting credible information about children's health, if not from any of those organizations.

HARLOW: You said back in 2008, actually, in an interview, that the media, you believe, often gives celebrities and actors more authority on this than experts. I wonder if you think that is still a problem.

PEET: Yes. I mean, science isn't sexy. And it's -- and certainly epidemiology isn't sexy. It's impersonal. Data it's impersonal. And I think people are still struggling, the scientific community and the medical community, they are still struggling with how to help people who are still confused and who are still afraid.

I mean, I just gave my son, Henry is just about nine weeks old and I just gave him his first shots. And it was awful. It's awful. You have to hold them down. It's a huge needle, he's tiny. I don't understand exactly what the contents are inside the needle because I'm not -- I'm not a doctor. I'm not a vaccinologist. I'm not a toxicologist. So, I understand that it is really scary. But that is why important to listen to the experts in the field.

It is important to recognize that vaccines have been around for over half a century are one of the most heavily bedded medicines on the market and are probably the most important medical intervention of the 20th century. And I fell comforted by that. And even though, as I said, the moment that Henry was getting stuck with the needed was very unpleasant. It makes me feel comforted to think that.

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HARLOW: Much more of our interview with Amanda Peet on that coming up later in the show.

Next, after quick break, why so many are calling Jordan's leader the warrior king.

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HARLOW: The videotape killing of a Jordanian pilot appears to have strengthen the king of Jordan's determination to fight ISIS. The Jordanian government released photos of the monarch wearing military fatigue, sleeves rolled up and ready to plot Jordan's revenge.

King Abdullah spent many years in the military and is seen as very comfortable playing the role of military commander.

Our Atika Shubert joins me now from Amman, Jordan.

I do wonder, Atika, you've been on the ground there now all week long covering this. Has the killing in the horrific manner of this Jordanian pilot being burnt alive, do you see that strengthening King Abdullah's hand inside of Jordan in terms of really, really going hard to combat ISIS?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly has for now. We've seen spontaneous gatherings and demonstrations in support of King Abdullah. Everywhere you go here, you see posters, not only of Muath Al-Kassasbeh, the Jordanian air pilot so brutally murdered, but also King Abdullah, often in military fatigue. He is the commander in-chief essentially. And he is a trained helicopter pilot. And so, all of that imagery has been used to take the fight home to ISIS.

But that's now. For later on down the line, it's going to be much more trickier politically. And this is why it's important for him to visit the prominent families, the tribes in the region to make sure that he has their backing and their support, not just now but for the long term as well.

HARLOW: Why is that, Atika, that it's going to be harder longer term?

SHUBERT: Well, obviously, the longer the war drags on and the more of the toll it takes particularly on those families who have sons serving in the air force. In fact, the Kaseasbeh family, when Muath Al- Kassasbeh was behind enemy lines, they were full of doubt, maybe this is not our war. Maybe we should pull out. Now they are saying, go in and annihilate , in the words of the Kassasbeh patriarch, annihilate ISIS. So that is the sentiment now. But if this continues, if we have more downed pilots, that could change.

HARLOW: Well, it's interesting, too, right, because we got this announcement this morning coming from the UAE which had stopped airstrikes against ISIS back in December because it was very worried about the ability for search and rescue to rescue, say, a downed pilot from their force. Now they have started them back up. They are sending f-16s to Jordan joining in this. How significant is that?

SHUBERT: It is quite significant. It's clearly a show of solidarity. They are sending in an entire squadron of f-16 fighters here. And it is to show that they will literally fly alongside Jordanian fighter jets as they hit those ISIS targets in Syria. So it's very significant that, one, they have resumed flights. But also, that they are flying together with Jordan. It sort of underscores the fact that Jordan sees itself as the spearhead in the war against ISIS.

HARLOW: Atika Shubert, thank you very much. Standby. We are going to talk a lot more about this in the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM.