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Ukraine Violence; Brian Williams Controversy; Sniper Trial Jury Selection; Snow in Boston
Aired February 09, 2015 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks so much for being with us here on this Monday.
Let's begin with the United States, right now, considering getting even more deeply involved in the most violent conflict Europe has seen in years.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) huge.
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BALDWIN: The sights and sounds of war in Ukraine. This massive explosion wipes out a building outside of Donetsk, an area now under control of these pro-Russian separatists. We're told this is either a chemical factory or perhaps it's an arms depot. This attack there coming as the number of people killed rises every single day. More than 5,000 dead and nearly 1 million forced out by the relentless fighting. President Barack Obama now facing a very difficult question, should the U.S. give defensive -- deadly arms to Ukrainian soldiers? Originally, German Chancellor Angela Merkel was completely against the idea, concerned that Russian President Vladimir Putin might even retaliate with even more force, more aggression. But today, as President Obama and Chancellor Merkel spoke, standing side by side at the White House, we heard a softened message. Here they were.
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ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): As to the export of arms, I have given you my opinion, but you may rest assure that no matter what we decide, the alliance between the United States and Europe will continue to stand. The French president and I have decided to make one further attempt to make progress through a diplomatic means.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have not made a decision about that yet. I've consulted with not just Angela but will be consulting with other allies about this issue. It's not based on the idea that Ukraine could defeat a Russian army that was determined. It is rather to see whether or not there are additional things we can do to help Ukraine bolster its defenses in the face of separatist aggression. But I want to emphasize that a decision has not yet been made.
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BALDWIN: Let's go to Donetsk, Ukraine. One the phone with me is our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh.
And we just heard President Obama say, you know, he has yet to make a decision as to whether or not the U.S. will arm these Ukrainian soldiers. You know, when we heard from Chancellor Angela Merkel today, she said, you know, she couldn't live with herself without at least giving this one more diplomatic try with Vladimir Putin, she and the president of France. Yet it seemed that she would be, if that didn't work, she would be open to other possibilities down the road.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I think you saw in that press conference a very clear bid by both (INAUDIBLE) how united they want the world to see them as, while being absolutely clear there's been no forceful measures lined up by either party in the event that these Minsk talks actually fail. They are so vital, though, and I think many (INAUDIBLE) in Washington today, the obvious stick if the carrot if peace doesn't actually come up with anything in the Belarusian castle on Wednesday.
But there is a stark difference to what's happening on the ground here. I'm told by a European diplomat with good knowledge of the situation that the OSE (ph) monitors, who monitor both sides of the conflict here, have seen a significant uptick in the movements of military vehicles on the separatist side in the last 24, 48 hours. We also know that Ukrainian military are moving around a lot as well. I think both sides keen to put themselves in a good position on the battlefield. And we saw for ourselves firsthand in one town called Vuhlehirsk (ph), which had been at the center of the fighting, quite what happens to civilian residential areas caught up in the fighting. Here's what we saw.
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WALSH: You can see the unbelievable damage done to that building. That must be where the Ukrainians had dug themselves in. And it just shows you the kind of devastation wrought upon this town, Vuhlehirsk. It is, for the most part, deserted, but strangely there are people emerging for the first time, some say, from the basements where they've been taking shelter.
(speaking foreign language)
He said for now they're not shooting at us.
(speaking foreign language)
You were in the basement during this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking foreign language).
WALSH: So Anitoli (ph) saying he was in the basement, but fate will better be deciding for him what happens to him. (END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: So many people we saw in that town emerging for the first time. One couple said they'd taken their kids out and were going back to collect their possessions. Another couple emptying their home for the last time. Really very little left to support life here.
As I stand here in Donetsk, people are talking peace potentially in Washington, looking forward to Minsk, but flying over our heads for the first time we've heard in the center of the city, shells coming over and landing elsewhere. It's quite clear that the artillery is not ceasing anywhere around this capsule (ph). Though never clear who's firing at who much of the time. But what is clear, civilians are caught in the middle of this and that toll continues to rise. Five thousand dead so far in this war, the deadliest conflict to hit Europe since the Balkans, and many deeply concerned that negotiation settlements seem quite far off at this stage.
Brooke.
BALDWIN: Nick Paton Walsh, it is so important that you are there for us and for this network to tell this story in Ukraine. Thank you so much.
David Rohde is with me here. He's a CNN global affairs analyst.
And let me just ask you quickly about that before we move along. You know, Nick paints this -- almost this juxtaposition of this, you know, talks of peace from Washington, yet, you know, shelling over the skies in Donetsk in eastern Ukraine. You saw the president today, you know, hasn't yet decided whether or not the U.S. will be arming these soldiers in Ukraine, yet the administration publicly has been very supportive of the idea. What do you make of that?
DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think the administration's trying to, you know, keep Europe on board while they sound tough, sort of, for an American domestic audience.
BALDWIN: Huh.
ROHDE: The key person here is Angela Merkel. Germany has many, many -- ten -- you know, ten times more trade with Russia than the U.S. And the really powerful tool here is economic sanctions. So if Angela Merkel wants one more round of peace talks in Minsk, it's good, you know, for the administration to wait and let those talks fail. And what's happened here is, Putin has clearly rearmed and reinforced these rebels. They're suddenly making all these gains. You know, he's using hard power. And Putin's winning the short-term. But if there are harsh economic sanctions, he'll lose them in the long-term.
BALDWIN: So just quickly, to button this part of it up, you think the U.S. will wait until this final, last-ditch effort, and if and when that fails, then the potential is for arming the soldiers?
ROHDE: They have to wait for Europe, otherwise the sanctions will have no real impact. BALDWIN: OK. Meantime, David Rohde, stay with me here, because in the
war against ISIS, Kayla Mueller's loved ones are waiting hour by hour for any word about her fate. A family friend calls the situation, and I'm quoting them, "a living hell." Mueller is the 26-year-old Arizona native who went to the Middle East to help refugees from Syria's civil war. She was captured by ISIS in 2013 and now ISIS has claimed, without offering any proof, that she was killed last week in a Jordanian air strike. U.S. officials continue to be skeptical of the claim, so her family continues to wait.
David, let's talk about this because you have Kayla's family back in Prescott, Arizona, and they are trying, they're imploring ISIS to contact them. I mean the -- is it unusual for family members to try to directly reach out to terrorists, to have some kind of communication?
ROHDE: To be honest, it's usually a sort of sad last-ditch effort. If you remember the family of Steven Sotloff --
BALDWIN: Sure.
ROHDE: His mother reached out to ISIS before he was killed. I think it's the right thing to do and the family deserves credit for trying. But, you know, this does look like a very dire situation.
BALDWIN: What about, you know, reading foreign policy, they are reporting on this potential rescue effort on behalf of the U.S. government to try to swoop in and save Kayla in Syria. And the government, apparently -- rather, her family, preferred they wouldn't try that. They were so, so worried, and I'm sure continue to be so worried, about her safety, thinking that it could be too risky, that could mean her life if it's unsuccessful. Do you think there needs to be any kind of policy within the government, right, in dealing with hostages and families? Because there isn't anything.
ROHDE: This is the problem and this is the latest example of this.
BALDWIN: You would know personally.
ROHDE: Yes. So the problem is, there's a lots of confusion about what American government policy is. So I was kidnapped five years ago, and in my case, the American government asked my family, if we have an opportunity for a raid, would you approve of one? So the policy five years ago was that a family could stop a raid. The Syria cases something different happened. There was an effort to rescue Jim Foley and Steve Sotloff and Kayla potentially as well, and that raid was carried out without the Foley's, I know for a fact, being asked for permission.
BALDWIN: That's the thing, you don't have to have the family's --
ROHDE: What has changed -- yes -- between 2009 and last summer in Syria. And there's a review by the White House, you know, of hostage policy. It's a good thing they're doing it, but they have to clarify, can families pay ransom or will they be prosecuted? You know, will families have a veto over raids or will they not have raids? And the family's also want access to classified information. Can families get a classified clearance? Currently they don't. So all this needs to be clarified by the White House.
BALDWIN: That needs to be clarified. Another piece of this that came out today, John Cantlie, one of the hostages who we've seen in multiple videos, this British journalist, he's now come out in this latest propagandist video, you know, reporting from I believe it's Aleppo. And we do have a short clip we'll play for you.
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JOHN CANTLIE, HOSTAGE: Hello, I'm John Cantlie. In the last film in this series, we're in a city that has been at the heart of the fighting since summer 2012.
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BALDWIN: What struck me is when he says, I'm John Cantlie and this is the last film in this series. How do you read that?
ROHDE: He's under enormous duress. There's a lot of people who have questioned why he's making these videos. If Kayla isn't alive, you know, he may be the last remaining western hostage in ISIS' hands. I just think it's not fair to judge someone in this kind of situation. He knows he could die. This could be an act of desperation on his part. And again I blame --
BALDWIN: No, certainly not judge him, but just hearing him say this is the final video, it frightens me, quite honestly.
ROHDE: Absolutely. And I just -- you know, the blame -- there's criticism of the U.S. government and many governments pay ransoms, not pay ransoms. The blame should lie with the kidnappers. It's horrific. They are forcing him to make these videos. It's just terrible.
BALDWIN: David Rohde, thank you.
ROHDE: Thanks.
BALDWIN: Just ahead, another of Brian Williams' field reports raising question. This one about the NBC anchor's time in Israel. Plus, hear from one of his colleagues who is defending him.
Also ahead here on CNN, he's accused of killing the man known as the American sniper, and today the jurors will decide his fate. They're being selected. Find out what lawyers are looking for ahead. You're watching CNN.
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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
The most watched news anchor in America is now keeping himself out of sight. Brian Williams is not be appearing on David Letterman later this week and he will not be at the helm of "NBC Nightly News" until further notice. What's more here, he was not the highest rated anchor Friday. We'll get to how big the ratings hit was in just a moment here. But all of this, of course, happening after he admitted to and apologized for a story that embellished some of the details of his 2003 Iraq War coverage. A military helicopter he was flying in actually never came under RPG attacks, as Williams had eventually said. Now coming to his defense, some of his colleagues. MSNBC anchor Joe Scarborough admitting today he is too close to Williams to be objective, but he has one hope for the embattled newsman.
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JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC ANCHOR: When the fury dies down and when we get through this storm and the decision is made to judge what Brian Williams' future should be, that that decision will be based on the entirety of his career, and not on one or two or three mistakes. If he exaggerated, if he sort of puffed his chest out a little bit, news people do that. Politicians do that. Guys do that. We've all done that at times.
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BALDWIN: Senior media correspondent Brian Stelter has been all over this for us.
Let's begin with -- so the apology on "Nightly" was last Wednesday.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right.
BALDWIN: So he was on Thursday and Friday. How were the ratings those two days?
STELTER: Well, on Thursday night, he did fine. On Friday night, there was a real dip in the ratings. And that would make sense if you think about how it wasn't until Thursday evening lots of people were hearing all about this story, about this brewing controversy. You know, it was a lead story on shows like "Entertainment Tonight," as well as news channels like CNN.
BALDWIN: Yes.
STELTER: So it became a bigger story on Thursday. And then, on Friday, maybe it's a coincidence, but the numbers from "Nightly News" were a lot lower. And "World News," that's on ABC, was number one instead. So basically, Monday through Thursday, Brian Williams wins, then on Friday, David Muir wins. It's just one early indicator that maybe some viewers are going to tune out amid all of this scandal involving Brian Williams.
BALDWIN: Part of the scandal, it's like each and every day there's this new story and was it true how he told the story? We talked Friday about some of the questions being, you know, asked about his time covering Katrina. Now questions being asked about his time in Israel.
STELTER: Right, because of a story that he described about being close to an attack there involving Hezbollah. There's a story in "The Washington Post" this morning questioning some of his statements about that, that may have shifted over the years. But all of this is very murky, Brooke, and all of this does require further digging and reporting. There's always, in cases like this, a rush to judgment, and that we've got to be really careful here about that.
Even though it's pretty clear that there were some exaggerations about his story in the Iraq War mission that was in 2003, that's been pretty thoroughly covered. But these other stories, they require more reporting and more digging and maybe that's why NBC has had no comment. You know, he's taking a leave of absence. He won't be on tonight. And, meanwhile, NBC is trying to figure out what's true and what's not true. And which of these external press reports should be taken seriously and which should not be taken seriously.
BALDWIN: So, part of this -- and, listen, none of us have really been immune to the -- to the -- I say wrath (ph) loosely of like the Jon Stewarts, right? And so one of the shows you sort of watch for is to see how they will cover a story like this.
STELTER: You would think this would be a big story on "The Daily Show."
BALDWIN: You would think this would be a big story on 'The Daily Show." And, surprise, so far, these are two, you know, guys from New Jersey. I think they're buddies.
STELTER: Well, Brian Williams has been on with Jon Stewart at least a dozen times, so there's definitely a relationship there. And I guess I was the only one that rose my eyebrows on Thursday night when Jon Stewart didn't cover the story.
BALDWIN: No.
STELTER: He'll be back on tonight, so maybe he will. John Oliver did make a joke last night on his HBO program, and I've got to imagine this story is at the point now where it is the kind of thing that's going to have fodder for late-night hosts. Maybe that's a terrible thing, but that's the reality here is that Brian Williams, and this story has become a big one. It's people -- people in the country are talking about it beyond just journalists.
But I have to say, journalists are talking about it differently, because for journalists, this gets to a really fundamental issue of trust and credibility. That's why it's become a big story among journalists. And that's why everyone's wondering whether Brian Williams is going to be back or not. You know, I have to admit, this is a competitive industry, right? There are some people that are excited about this, that are gleeful about this. But I'm not and most people I talk to are not. It's a sad story. It's a sad story.
BALDWIN: It makes me sad. That's what I said in my morning meeting with my team.
STELTER: Yes, it's a sad story. But now for NBC it's a rather retched business calculation, which is, whether Williams is too damaged to continue in the job or whether they should stand by him and let him take the time to regain people's trust. That's what they are now deciding, Brooke. BALDWIN: We wait, we watch. It's tough and it's sad. I agree with you
100 percent.
STELTER: Yes.
BALDWIN: Brain Stelter, thank you so much.
STELTER: Thanks.
BALDWIN: Coming up next here, jury selection for the trial for the accused killer of American sniper Chris Kyle. That's underway. Will the blockbuster film affect the trial or who gets to decide the defendant's fate?
Plus, three Mondays, three snowstorms. The Northeast getting hit again. We'll take you there live, next.
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BALDWIN: The tough task of finding a jury in the Chris Kyle murder trial is underway right now in a Texas courtroom. Kyle, profiled in the blockbuster film, "American Sniper," you know him from that or his best-selling book of the same name, Kyle and a friend were shot and killed two years ago at a firing range in Texas. A fellow veteran is now charged with the murders. Former Marine Eddie Ray Routh has confessed to the crime. Chris Kyle is so big in Texas, his memorial service was held in a stadium where the Dallas Cowboys play. CNN's Ed Lavandera is following this case for us.
Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, the process of picking a jury in the murder trial of Eddie Ray Routh, the man accused of killing Chris Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield, continues in the small town of Stephenville, Texas, today. This is a process that started late last week and will continue the rest of the day today and expected to go well into tomorrow. We're told to expect opening statements to begin on Wednesday morning.
And Eddie Ray Routh's attorney says that he will likely plead not guilty by reason of insanity. So you can expect a great deal of testimony focusing on the mental issues and the mental health issues that Eddie Ray Routh struggled with in the years leading up to the murders of Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. So all of that -- a lot of that testimony will play center stage.
So it's been a very intense effort to pick this jury. They need to pick 12 people plus two alternates. And the judge in this case started interviewing potential jurors late last week, and to date, attorneys and prosecutors will get their chance to begin interviewing these prospective jurors.
One of the thing that Eddie Ray Routh's attorneys tried to do was to get this trial, this murder trial delayed because of the intense publicity surrounding the "American Sniper" film, as well as the governor of Texas declaring one day last week as Chris Kyle Day, but the judge says that he will not delay the trial, that it is scheduled to move ahead, starting very likely on Wednesday.
Brooke.
BALDWIN: All right, Eddie -- Ed Lavandera in Dallas.
By the way, tonight at 9:00, "American Sniper" is now the highest grossing U.S. war movie of all time. But not all the drama is playing out on the big screen. Go inside the controversy and the story's incredible real-life twists and turns. "Blockbuster: The Story of American Sniper," airing tonight, 9:00 Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.
Now to one of my favorite cities that's covered in snow over and over, Boston, where another winter storm is punishing the city. Right now Boston is getting hit by the third heavy snowstorm in as many weeks. New snow totals just in from the National Weather Service and so far this season for Boston, are you ready for this, 73.9 inches. This is now, officially, the tenth all-time snowiest winter in the city with, keep in mind, weeks and weeks more of winter to come. And, yes, the city snow removal budget is already shot.
CNN's Rosa Flores is braving the elements for us in Boston.
And, Rosa, first, let me just ask you, with all of the snow on top of the other snow and the other snow, I'm worried about the roofs, people's homes, their roofs collapsing.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brooke, it's definitely a big issue. And all you have to do is look around me to know that it will be an issue. This snow has to go somewhere, right?
Now, I want to give you a brief demonstration because this is what some of the folks are dealing with. I'm going to measure one of these snowbanks just so you can get an idea. Now, look, take a look here.
BALDWIN: My goodness.
FLORES: It's at about 42 inches. But, you know, sometimes people say, oh, Rosa, these are just snow drifts. Blah, blah, blah. No, Brooke just mentioned that the National Weather Service saying that for this season, 73 inches of snow for Boston. That's a lot of snow. And it is causing issues on roofs. There's already been three partial roof collapses.
Now, I want to show you some video, take a look at your screen, because we actually went on a roof, with a crew, that was working to clear a roof. Now, here's what we learned. So the process is very tedious. These workers have to work very slowly because it's very dangerous. They hook a ladder to the roof. Now, the workers have a vest, with a harness, that hooks to that safety ladder.
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FLORES: So you have your crew go up in a safe manner. How do you start bringing down the snow? And how much has been accumulating from your experience so far? BOB MACKERRON, OWNER OF RECON ROOFING: We've been taking up to four
feet of snow, in some cases six foot with a snowdrift. And we start at the top, we work our way down.
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