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Dr. Drew
Brian Williams Caught in A Lie; Bruce Jenner and the Deadly Car Accident; A Teenager Shocks Millions of Facebook Users With Story of Alleged Abuse
Aired February 09, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Brian Williams, is he a liar? Should he be fired? And, Bruce Jenner and the fatal car crash. What his personal
private issues might have had to do with it?
But, let us get started with our behavior bureau. Is Brian Williams caught in a lie? Did he misremember his experience in Iraq? Here is how he went
from network news anchor to internet meme.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC ANCHOR OF "NIGHTLY NEWS": The helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an RPG. Two of our four
helicopters were hit by ground fire, including the one I was in.
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST OF "DAVID LETTERMAN SHOW": No kidding!
WILLIAMS: RPG and AK-47.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DON HELUS, PILOTED THE CHOPPER THA SUSTAINED AN RPG ATTACK: Mr. Williams was not in or near our aircraft at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: I want to apologize. I said I was traveling in an aircraft that was hit by RPG fire. I was instead in a following aircraft.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Brian Williams` apology for exaggerating some of his Iraq war reporting is not silencing the story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Maybe Williams thought something very dramatic was happening to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): If so, let us hear it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The conversation is only getting louder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He has not denied that he embellished the story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: This was a bungled attempt by me to thank one special Veteran. They have my greatest respect and also now my apology.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me Vanessa Barnett, Hiphollywood.com; Judy Ho, Ph,D., Clinical Psychologist, Professor at Pepperdine University and Janine
Driver, the Human Lie Detector. Should his career be over for this mistake, Vanessa?
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Look, the short answer is yes. You are a journalist. You have one job. Have you seen those memes? You had
one job. It was to tell us the truth. I love him. Many people love him. But, let us not get emotional about this. If you are a chef and you make
bad food, you are out. If you are a doctor and you keep killing folks, you are out --
PINSKY: Well, Vanessa, wait a minute --
BARNETT: -- If you are a journalist, you cannot tell the truth, you are out.
PINSKY: Wait a minute. If you are -- that is just not the way it works. If you are a chef and something infects the food, you had no way of -- you
know, whatever. You mix something together improperly one night, that ends an entire career?
BARNETT: This is not just one instance. This is several -- now we have to go back and fact check. There are several instances here where his truth
has been a little shady. And, what I always say is, the luxury of telling the truth is that you do not have to remember it. Brian, I am sorry. You
should not have to go back and remember if you were in this helicopter or not.
PINSKY: You are right, Vanessa. It is not just about this one episode. Judy, it is about -- it seems to be a pattern here, is not there?
JUDY HO, Ph.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That is right. There is a pattern. And, this is the problem, Dr. Drew. I think we put our newscasters now at
risk for behavior like this because we do expect them to entertain. And, they do have both internal and external forces to be entertainers to beat
out the ratings. And, that is just a part of what the news is about these days.
PINSKY: So, they are embellishing.
HO: Absolutely.
PINSKY: They are exaggerating.
HO: So, I believe that this was intentional on his part to keep his top status. That is where I am at.
PINSKY: All right. So, Janine, you are the lying expert. Is exaggeration lying? Does that mean he is a person that we cannot trust?
JANINE DRIVER, KNOWN AS "HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: First of all, human beings lie in one five social situations. But, here when you are a reporter for
the news, we are looking for the truth. So, a lie is a lie is a lie. He is lying. This is not if there is a Santa Claus or an Easter Bunny.
Listen, he said a couple things.
Brian Williams said, "I would not have chosen to make this mistake." It is very interesting language. We heard this Roger Clemens a long time ago
when he is being interviewed. He said, "How do I prove a negative? How do a prove a negative? "
One of the older instincts, Dr. Drew in our brain is -- our brain is programs to tell the truth. So, when we override that it comes out in
convoluted ways. "I would not have chosen to make this mistake?" What are you talking about? How do I prove a negative? It is crazy.
Also, with Roger Clemens, I do not know if you remember this, Dr. Drew. Roger Clemens was asked up "On The Hill," "Hey! Andy Petit said you took
steroids. Did you take them?" And, he said, "I think Andy misremembers." So, it is interesting when people are believing -- what I believe
stretching the truth or blatantly lying, they have been proven to say this word misremembers.
PINSKY: Well --
DRIVER: And, here is another big deal. I am glad the other panelists brought this up. It is not just this incident that Brian Williams has lied
about. With regard to -- he was in Louisiana. He said when you look out your hotel window in the French Quarter and you watch a man float face
down, when you see bodies -- listen, we say you, Dr. Drew, when it is common to mankind. Like, you trip and you stub your toe -- Have you ever
get stabbed by a --
PINSKY: But, Janine -- Janine --
DRIVER: Have you ever get stabbed by a --
PINSKY: I understand. But, maybe he was reporting something he heard somebody else say, saying, "Boy, if you were to watch that, it must be
terrible. I was there and if you would see that, I did not see it, but somebody reported to me they did --
DRIVER: Exactly -- Dr. Drew --
BARNETT: That is not what he said.
PINSKY: What?
DRIVER: That is the deal. Because he was asked with regard to -- the question was asked to Brian Williams -- it seemed like you came back like a
man. You grew up. When you came back from Louisiana, when you came back from hurricane Katrina, you seemed like a changed person. And, then he
said, "Hey! Of course I am a changed person."
When you look out the window and you see in the French Quarter -- First all, no dead bodies floating down the French Quarter. There was barely
even any water over there. We say you when we want to give the impression or the illusion that we were there. It is a typical tell that people who
are deceptive, it is a tool they use.
PINSKY: All right, listen, Janine --
DRIVER: He is an advanced liar.
PINSKY: Janine, I want you to listen to Brian Williams speaking to "Stars and Stripes," the military magazine, last Wednesday after members of the
military questions his account of his time in Iraq. Listen to what he says. The reporter, Travis Trenton asks him to explain the discrepancy.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: I would not have chosen to make this mistake. I do not know what screw up in my mind caused me to conflate one aircraft from the other.
The fact is, I remember three aircraft going down. I was on one of them.
A professional will look at this differently. They go into a kind of hyperdrive. I did what a civilian, an untrained civilian would do in that
instance. And, it was -- it was being scared. I did not set out to in any way change the chronicle of what happened to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: But, I am watching all you guys shake your head. But, listen, Janine, he said that his plane went down. Is not that enough?
DRIVER: Listen, listen.
BARNETT: No.
DRIVER: He said on WNYC Radio -- he said to Alec Baldwin that he thought he was going to die when the grenade hit his car. Are you delusional,
Brian? Listen, Paula Deen lost her empire when she did not come out and say I was wrong, I am sorry. He is not saying I lied --
PINSKY: Is sorry enough?
DRIVER: He is not saying I lied. Well, how about start by saying, I lied. I am sorry. He went on and on. That mumbo jumbo he just said is
separating the truth from his apology, like it is all unnecessary language.
PINSKY: But, Judy, why is not an apology enough? Why cannot he comes -- this guy got a long career of --
HO: Well --
PINSKY: -- you know, as Vanessa, herself, says, she loves guy, and yet she wants to crucify him for this -- what seems like a little pattern here,
maybe.
BARNETT: Yes.
HO: Well, there is definitely a pattern, Dr. Drew. And, he does not seem like he is taking any accountability in the clip that you just showed. So,
I do not think he wants to apologize.
BARNETT: Right.
PINSKY: His plane went down.
HO: He is not apologizing, though. So, if you are asking us if we are going to forgive him? Well, he has not apologized and he has not actually
told us in specific terms how he is going to rectify this behavior. So, unless I guarantee that he has a specific plan of how he is going to
rectify this behavior and that he has some insight into why he is even doing it in the first place, then I am not going to feel satisfied.
PINSKY: That is interesting. We can talk about that in the next segment. Vanessa, what does he have to do to make somebody like you happy?
BARNETT: He needs to just step down. I am sorry. It is really difficult to come back from something like this. And, it is because you have now
lost all credibility. When you are now reporting the news, but you have become the news --
PINSKY: So, it is hopeless? Hopeless!
BARNETT: -- I do not know when I can believe you now. Like I said, I love him to pieces. But, maybe this part of his career has come to a close.
And, maybe he can start in a new way.
PINSKY: I hate to be in a love relationship with Vanessa, because anything goes a little wrong with it, it is over.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: This is not a little wrong.
PINSKY: Listen, I am poking at you. But, Janine, you say, "No way." There is no coming back, huh?
DRIVER: It reminds me of that song from the 90s. It was not me. I saw you in the bathroom, it was not me. Like he is like not taking
responsibility for the love of God say, "I lied. I am sorry. I tried to boost my ego. I do not know what I was thinking. I am an idiot." Take
that accountability.
PINSKY: All right. We will talk about these lies and why people lie. And, next, a hash tag called #shareyourlie. It is a big on Twitter
tonight. We will show you why. And, we will talk more about Brian Williams.
And, later, Bruce Jenner and the car accident that took someone`s life. What happens now? We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Here at the superdome. As, we left there tonight, the first sign of restlessness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: On ground in New Orleans, tales of dead bodies, dysentery, and wild gangs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Worst fears realized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Stories that now have skeptics taking a closer look at Brian Williams` reporting. In a 2006 interview, the NBC
"Nightly News" anchor shared this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: When you look out of your hotel room window in the French Quarter and watch a man float by face down --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: How can that be? Others claim the French Quarter remained mostly dry. The former general manager of the Ritz Carlton Hotel where Williams
stayed during the storm told the "Times" Newspaper that, "There is no physical way the water was deep enough for a body to float in. Recalling
just six to eight inches of water on the first floor."
Some pictures show streets under water, but it is still unknown exactly how deep the water was. And, there is more, in his own 2005 documentary about
Katrina, Williams claimed he heard the story of a man taking his own life in the superdome. But, what he told his predecessor Tom Brokaw just last
year seems to go far beyond simply hearing about the suicide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: We watched -- all of us watched as one man committed suicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: That story among others is all under investigation by NBC News, including his account about getting sick from
sewage water while reporting on Hurricane Katrina. Author, Douglas Brinkley, quotes Williams as saying, "He was fading in and out and that the
hotel was on lockdown to keep out armed gangs."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Our hotel was overrun with gangs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: "The Washington Post" reports that three different people told reporters that no gangs had infiltrated the Ritz
Carlton.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with the behavior bureau, Vanessa, Judy and Janine. Of course, that footage was from tonight`s AC 360. Judy, I think he is using
we and you sort of hyperbolically, does not include himself in we and you. And, he is using it as a way of exaggerating and making his stories more
vivid. And, it is an indictment, frankly, of news and journalism becoming more entertainment than journalism.
HO: Absolutely. And, you see that across more and more on every channel that we watched now, Dr. Drew, that there is that pressure for all of the
people who have been told that their main job was to actually report the news as is. I mean do we even really have the news as is anymore? But --
PINSKY: And, they all do it.
HO: They all do it. But, there is -- this is the difference, though, Dr. Drew. With him, it is not just excitement and being more charismatic.
This is really kind of rising to the level of -- do you remember that story about Tania Head in 9/11, that there was that woman who pretended she was
at ground zero, 9/11.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
HO: This is what it strikes me as it has kind of cross the line. This is not about the entertainment. This is more about, you know, putting
yourself in the center of attention, so that you can actually be a celebrity. I mean that is part of it. Right?
PINSKY: But, Janine is not that his job is to sort of bring it to life for us, to sort of be at the center of the hurricane all the time, even if he
is not, to make us feel like he is there, Janine?
DRIVER: No. He is a liar. We do not want liars telling us what reality - listen. He literally said, Dr. Drew, "I have no desire to fictionalize my
experience." OK? This is what Brian Williams says, "I have no desire to fictionalize my experience."
That is talking in the current tense. That is moving toward. If you were to ask me, "Janine, have you ever cheated on my husband?" And, I would
respond, "I have no desire to cheat on my husband." Did I answer your question?
PINSKY: No.
(LAUGHING)
HO: No.
DRIVER: No. The answer is should be, no. He is talking current tense to the past --
PINSKY: But, is it -- I agree.
DRIVER: He has had the desire --
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: He has had the desire. He may no longer have the desire. No kidding, you know?
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: My dad used to say the name is Tucker not sucker. You know, he is not that stupid. At this point, he no longer has the desire, but the man
is a liar. I think he needs to lose his job. Sorry, Brian Williams, you are cute, you are adorable -- fun to watch on "The Tonight Show" but it is
time to go.
PINSKY: Well, Vanessa, I think you agree with that too. But, why am I so uncomfortable with this? An entire career goes down because he was trying
to rise to a level that he was probably being encouraged to rise?
BARNETT: Look, I do not understand why the truth is not enough. Hurricane Katrina was tragic. It was terrible.
HO: Oh my gosh.
BARNETT: There were so many stories that were actually factual that were even hard to believe. So, I do not need Brian Williams coming in and
giving me his perception of the truth and flubbing, as he would say are, whatever colorful language he has chosen to use.
No. Give me the news. These are serious topics. And, when you are so arrogant and so calculated in your word choice that you will want to make
me believe something that has not occurred, that is egregious.
PINSKY: All right.
BARNETT: That is egregious behavior as a journalist. And, I consider myself a journalist. Facts only. Truth first.
PINSKY: Take a look at this from what is called the "Dishonesty Project." Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): I realized that I had just told a lie, and I felt so bad. But, then I also thought, "Wow! You really cannot trust
people."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): The first big lie was Santa Claus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: That is not like a big lie. That is like a little --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): A lie is like a knife. So, if you use a knife to stab something, it is wrong. If you use a knife to put some
butter on your bread, then there is nothing wrong with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: They are using the hash tag #shareyourlie to confess lies on social media or at the website. It is called dishonestyproject.com. Judy,
they seem to be having some relief when they confess the lie. And, I am certain when they -- they want to feel like they are good people, right?
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: And, different kinds of people lie. I mean sociopaths and narcissist lie, because it is Expedia. They really did not feel about it.
But, everybody lie to some extent or another. Would that be accurate?
HO: Absolutely. Everybody has told a lie, probably, today. The problem here is, is this an issue of ethics and morality? And, I think a lot of
people are doubting his ethical code. We do not have a specifically spelled out ethical code for journalists like we do for physicians like
you, Dr. Drew. But, there is still certain integrity that you have to hold yourself up to.
PINSKY: I think they do.
HO: And, we do not believe that he has. We really do not believe that he has. And, I think the other issue is, he probably did experience lot of
cognitive dissonance at first when he was starting to exaggerate these stories. But, we all have ways of justifying our own behavior.
He has probably found a way to be comfortable with it over the years. And, over the years since he has not gotten caught, he has kept empting up the
level, a little bit more, a little bit more to keep pushing the envelope. And, he is probably rewarded every time he pushes the envelope, because he
gets more attention, hits celebrity arises.
PINSKY: Yes, I think Janine is agreeing with you.
BARNETT: It is disgusting.
DRIVER: Well, listen, Bernie Madoff did not start by stealing billions of dollars, you know? It starts a little bit at a time. Here is the deal,
Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes?
DRIVER: Powerful liars, people in positions of power, they focus on the rewards, not the consequences. Powerful liars, they have a deep breathing
cortisol in the moment of lying. They actually get off on it. They de- stress in the moment of lying.
PINSKY: Janine, that are the real liars. Those are bad liars. Those are bad people.
DRIVER: It does not matter. Anyone in power.
PINSKY: I would not -- No. I am not going to let you compare this guy to that. I think this guy is like an exaggerator.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: And, he has really made some horrible mistakes. I bet you Vanessa, I bet the truth is sort of difficult to convey. And, that is why
it is hard for him to tell exactly what it was he was doing.
BARNETT: No. The truth is always easy --
PINSKY: People do not want to hear it. We cannot -- if we cannot empty it with a shrivel laugh with some sort of empty slogan, people are like, "He
is a liar, get out of here."
HO: Dr. Drew, you are using justification right now.
BARNETT: Exactly.
PINSKY: That is true. It is true.
BARNETT: It is very easy to tell.
DRIVER: Dr. Drew, you have --
PINSKY: Janine.
DRIVER: Listen, are you like the number one fan for the Brian Williams` website? Like I support Brian Williams?
PINSKY: No. No.
DRIVER: What you are saying is crazy. It is crazy. He is in a position of power. Bottom line. It does not matter if it is a small lie or big
lie, he justified it.
PINSKY: All right.
DRIVER: And, the bottom line is he has a decrease in that stress when he tells it. And, he thinks nothing of it. He is notm saying, "I lied." He
is saying, "I have no --
PINSKY: I am going to say -- Janine, I do not disagree. I am not saying you are wrong, because I do not know and that is what troubles me at this
whole thing. Because we have not heard from him, we are filling it with all kinds of stuff, speculation. And, yes, Janine may be right. Vanessa
may be right. He may lose his job, but I really would like to hear exactly what happened here. What he was thinking?
I do not want to hear spin. I do not want to hear apologies. I want to hear him say exactly what happened. I bet it is difficult to convey. And,
that is why he is having trouble getting it to us. A lot of people do not want to hear it. He has had a great career. I am certainly -- The kind of
person Janine is talking about is a bad person that feels gratified by lying.
People that are good people feel guilty when they lie because it is a dissonance there of who they are and what they have done here. I am
certain, this is not that kind of lie. I believe in my heart he is, but the reality is I kind of agree with my panelists.
I think this is an egregious situation. I just want it to be different. And, I hope he will make it clear what he has done here and make us at
least understand it, whether or not he has to step down. That, I think will be up to him and his organization.
Next, we are going to hear from Bruce Jenner about the fatal accident over the weekend.
And, later, 17 million people see a confession on Facebook that is very emotional, and we will show it to you. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. PHILIP BROOKS, COASTAL HIGHWAY SHERIFF: It appears Bruce Jenner was involved in a rear-end of a vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The part of the Malibu Highway where the crash occurred is narrow and twisting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. BROOKS: When it struck the Lexus, the Lexus went into oncoming traffic which struck the southbound H2 Hummer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): The woman driving that car was 69-year- old Kim Howe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. BROOKS: The driver of the white Lexus was pronounced dead at the scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): It is a devastating tragedy. And, I cannot pretend to imagine what this family is going through at this time.
I am praying for them. I will continue to cooperate in every way possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (2): We also know that there were five minors and two adults who were taken to the hospital.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He was towing a dune buggy. And, there were paparazzi following him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (3): Police are saying that he originally said that he had been followed by the paparazzi, but -- that he was not
trying to get away from them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are back with our most tweeted story of the day. Bruce Jenner involved in an accident this weekend that left one woman dead. Vanessa
Barnett still with us. Joining us Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect And Other Lies Parents Tell," and Nicole Ramos. She is
transitioning from male to female, herself.
And, I want to first show you exactly what happened with this animation where Bruce Jenner was moving down the pacific coast highway by the ocean.
A Prius made a sudden stop. The white Lexus there rear ended it. And, then Bruce`s car crashes into Lexus sending that into oncoming traffic.
Bruce`s car, it does not show any animation here. But, he had a large trailer on the back of his car. So, he was coming with a great deal of
momentum. Loni, what do you make of this legally? Is there liability here?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, civil liability I am sure, yes. And, then the question is, is there criminal liability? And, there could
be a vehicular manslaughter charge here. All it takes if someone dies is if there was some type of negligence.
That could be a traffic violation like was somebody speeding Were they following too close? Was Bruce pulling that dune buggy in a lawful and
safe manner? Was he on the phone at the time? Any of those things could be considered negligence up to the point of filing a vehicular manslaughter
charge. And, remember, not just Bruce, all of the drivers will be investigated for a possible charge.
PINSKY: Right. And, Loni, you know, I know they are looking at phone records and Bruce turned over his found, but it certainly gives all of us
pause. I mean here in Los Angeles, we all talk on the phone.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: We all do things. I mean if we activate our ways, are we going to be guilty of negligence just because we have some sort of system operating?
COOMBS: Well, in and of itself, it may not be enough. But, I will tell you, Dr. Drew and I think all of your viewers will be very curious to know,
if there is an accident like this, one of the first thing to be investigated they do is they go for the cell records to see, were they on
the phone? Were they activated the phone. Were they texting at the time? And, they will definitely take that into consideration to decide if you
were driving in a safe manner or not.
PINSKY: And, speaking of safety, Vanessa, everything is documented with this family of which Bruce is still a part. Every frame of the crash is
shown. Seems like the paparazzi were there. And, I guess there were some documentation in that piece we heard that they were there, but he says they
were not following him. Could they be responsible in some way?
BARNETT: In this case, it does not seem as though they are responsible. What I will say, though, is that we have seen time and time again that this
paparazzi gets way too aggressive, way too out of control. That even if Bruce felt like he was not trying to evade them, he was not trying to get
away, we do not know if he just has this sense of always being followed.
And, maybe he always is a heightened driver now, because he is always being chased. So, I think the ramifications of having the paparazzi being
allowed to have that kind of a rutting driving, it -- nothing good can come of it even if they are not directly responsible in this case.
PINSKY: And, Nicole, I want to ask you. You know, we hear that allegedly that he is going through the transition. And, no doubt, you know, it is
just unbelievably stressful time already. And, he is in the public scrutiny and now this.
I guess the first question I would have is, is the stress of this transition. And, I know the hormones, themselves, can cause difficulty
with concentration. Do you think that in any way figured in, A. To the accident and B. Certainly to what poor Bruce is going through?
NICOLE RAMOS, TRANSGENDER YOUTUBER: Definitely. I mean this is coming from someone who has dealt with gender dysphoria myself. So, I definitely
believe that he has a lot of going on in his plate between the media and everything going on with that and what is going on inside his own mind.
So, I definitely think that all of that stress and stuff combined did not help the situation.
PINSKY: We did get a statement from E!. It said, quote, "Bruce was not shooting for "Keeping Up With The Kardashians" today and there is no other
project in production. Now, according to the LA Times, another part of the story, the victim, the woman that died in this terrible accident, she --
her car -- her driver`s license had expired back in 2007.
And, she I guess should not have been driving. We do not know why her driver`s license had expired or was taken away. We just do not know.
Loni, any speculation?
COOMBS: Well, that I do not want to speculate. I mean there is a lot of different reasons why. I mean, you know, failure to appear, too many
speeding tickets. There are a lot of different reasons why you could have it suspended.
But, the fact is she was continuing to drive all that time on a suspended license, leads me to think that she had not had any other traffic
violations in the last seven years because they would have picked up on that and said, "You have a suspended license."
PINSKY: Right.
COOMBS: So, you know, perhaps she has been a safe driver up until then. I will say PCH is notorious for being a very dangerous area.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: There are a lot of fatalities there. People follow too close. They speed. You know, there is a lot to look at as you look out, you know,
at the ocean.
PINSKY: Right.
COOMBS: And, apparently, Bruce Jenner had something in his hand that was seen in one of the pictures. It is not clear where or when that picture
was taken. And, they are not sure if it was a cell phone or a cigarette. So, you know, that will be factored in too. Now, smoking and driving is
not illegal. But, obviously, having a cell phone in your hand, you know, here in California is.
PINSKY: We are at risk of degenerating into an episode of the Californians here. We talk about them coming off the tan under the PCH. Pacific Coast
Highway, for those who is not in Los Angeles area.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: Sorry.
PINSKY: But, Nicole, I am interested in -- I feel really bad for Bruce. I mean I was already feeling bad for him having to deal with the public
scrutiny and really kind of thought he was dealing with things rather well and now this. Can you help us understand what that must be like for this
guy?
RAMOS: I mean, I cannot possibly imagine. I know what it is like to deal with gender dysphoria, but I do not know what it is like to deal with it on
his kind of level. So, I can imagine, you know, the jokes people are making, the things people -- the magazine covers.
There is so many different things that he is going through right now, not to mention what is going on inside of his own head. I could not possibly
imagine how difficult this time must be for him right now.
PINSKY: So, we are going to keep this conversation going about all the attention on Bruce Jenner and what it must be doing to him and this
terrible tragedy.
And, later, a Facebook post about abuse that has been seen and liked by millions. I think it is going to help others. We will talk about it after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE JENNER, EX-HUSBAND OF KRIS JENNER: No matter how good you become, you always doubt yourself. Is that performance down deep inside, is it
there one more time? I feel probably safer in the airplane than I do in the car. Cars are not going the other direction, you know, at 50, 60 miles
an hour.
You know, we started looking at a lot of reality television, you know, shows that are on air. I have done different shows throughout the years.
And, we just kind of looked at our family and ours was so much more interesting.
I know a lot of things are happening, but I do my best to try to keep everything calm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, now Bruce Jenner involved in a car crash over the weekend that left a woman dead. This as reports that we have been hearing that he
is making a transition from male to female. Back with Vanessa, Loni and Nicole. Zoey Tur, a transgender reporter for "Inside Edition" was on CNN
this weekend and was very critical of how Bruce has handled this transition. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOEY TUR, TRANSGENDER REPORER FOR "INSIDE EDITION": The way she is doing it, it has been terrible for the community. It looks like it is part of
the Kardashian train wreck. And, you know, it is painted with a Kardashian brush. So, people are very suspicious. Is this real?
Also, you know, the tension is building up. Is Bruce really doing it, not doing it? And, maybe from a reality show -- selling a reality show
product, it is a good thing. But, it is terrible for our community because it makes us look stupid.
And, Bruce Jenner by losing the narrative, not controlling her narrative and coming out and speaking about it, allows us to speculate, allows the
tabloid press to speculate. And, Jenner has become a national joke?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Nicole, do you agree with what Zoey is saying here that poor Bruce has become a joke?
RAMOS: I do not, actually. I think that she was rather harsh in that statement. Really, this is reminding me a lot of like the Chaz Bono
situation. Because there was speculation for a long time that he was transitioning.
And, it took him a long time to actually come out and say that what he is. So, I really think that this is Bruce`s story to tell. And, he should do
it when he is ready and the way he wants to do it. I do not think he is handling it bad.
PINSKY: I agree with Nicole, Vanessa, that it is something he has to get used to slowly. His family has to get used to, and he is allowing us to
get used to it slowly. Now, I agree he seems to making some choices in terms of how he rolls this out that are more about the media than anything
else. He is sitting down with Diane Sawyer and he is doing all these things, but what do you think.
BARNETT: Well, he is a public figure. So, of course, he is going to wants to explain it on different terms than maybe the average person. But, at
the end of the day, who is this Zoey woman to then place the entire weight of the entire community on this man`s shoulders?
Why is she being the bully that this community so often speaks about that has prohibited them from wanting to come out and tell their story? I think
she is blatantly hypocritical. And, it is kind of hurtful that she would not be in support of him anyway he chooses to tell his story.
PINSKY: Well, but Zoey -- I get what you are saying, Vanessa. But, Loni, Zoey is making a point that almost nothing Bruce can do that that will not
be painted or tainted by the Kardashian brush. Right?
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: And, so, that is already a problem that he cannot escape. And, in fact, the only way to escape is by distancing himself and taking his time,
which is what he is doing.
COOMBS: Exactly. You know, I mean he was a part of that Kardashian thing. When he started up, who knew it was would become the phenomenon it did.
But, look I would guess and I am speculating here, but you know for most people who decide to make this change, they have been thinking about it for
a long time and waiting until they feel like not only they can handle it but the people around them can handle it.
And, maybe he finally got to that point where, "OK, I think now that my children are more grown and, you know, I am in a place where I feel like I
am safe to do this, I am going to it." And, doing it over a period of time, I think was very smart for him to do --
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: -- for him, for his family and for everyone else. And, I understand what Zoey is saying. But, you know, I think everyone should be
able to do it in the best way that makes sense for them and for their own situation.
PINSKY: That is right. So, what I think is exactly what Loni is saying here, which is this is a human being that going through a challenging time
in his -- now her life, if indeed what people are saying -- are alleging is true, we should soon begin to call him, her or maybe already be doing so.
We heard Zoey call Bruce her. It is difficult. It is one human being. It is a human being that happens to be in the public eye quite a bit. And, I
think -- I am going to use he for the time being, because we do not know what -- He has not been clear with us what he is doing.
He is using reasonable amount of judgment in terms of how he does this. Now, many people are very curious about why he would wait until now. He is
the man in the later decades of life. And, it turns out that these days, about 60 percent of the guys that are -- the women that are making this
transition are in their 50s and 60s.
And, so, it is a very common thing. They all nearly have been preoccupied with this essentially most of their life, if not their entire life. And,
it is something -- as Loni said, as they get older, their kids are mature, they have come clean with their family, they feel more comfortable about
doing this.
And, by the way, it is a time when people are more accepting of it. And, if anything, Bruce Jenner may contribute to that, Zoey. It may help things
in the long run.
Next, a teenager shocks millions of Facebook users with her story of abuse, allegedly. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A young woman uses Facebook to share her story of alleged childhood sex abuse -- And claims of rape -- And
subsequent depression that led to a suicide attempt. Her video has been viewed over 16 million times with countless comments from strangers who
applaud her courage -- And the inspirational message she shares with the world.
(ENDV IDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa and Judy and joining us Samantha Schacher from "Pop Triger" on Hulu!. And, we are not revealing the young woman`s name or
face, because she is an alleged victim of a sex crime.
And, Sam, this woman has been going through a lot, but I will tell you what. You know, in my world, most of my patients have stories like this.
It is unbelievable how crazy and common this is.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER": So unbelievable. It is such a heart wrenching confession, Dr. Drew, but also really courageous and
inspirational if you watch that video all the way through. But, yes, like you said, if all of these allegations are true -- wow! What a challenging
life this young woman has already led.
The video itself is nearly 6 minutes long. She claims that her mother`s boyfriend began sexually abusing her when she was 7. Then at age 10, she
began secretly cutting herself. And, by age 11, she was institutionalized after her mother learned she was cutting herself at school with razors.
Then, at age 12, she says she was raped by a classmate during a sleepover at her home. She says the boy began spreading rumors at school that she
was a whore. And, that is when she attempted suicide with, quote, "A deep cut and an overdose." She was in and out of hospitals for two years. And,
credits therapy and family support with saving her life.
PINSKY: I am so glad she is doing better. That is not the usual story, Judy. You and I, I am sure you deal with many of these people as I do. It
is childhood trauma is a common problem and it is intergenerational.
Poor mom who everybody would love to vilify, undoubtedly she, herself, was a victim of something like this, which is why she was attracted to and by
the guy who would perpetrate all this. We see this all the time.
HO: That is right, Dr. Drew. In my practice, just like you, most of my clients have story like this.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
HO: And, it continues to impact the way they behave today, the way they interact in their relationships and their intergenerational trauma as you
just mentioned that they sometimes without meaning to do so end up actually victimizing their own children. So, it is a really huge problem.
PINSKY: But, they are seeing you -- No. And, the point is -- the good news is they are seeing you. This young girl is getting treatment. I
think what is different about this story -- And Vanessa I will ask you, is it a good idea to bring this video and put this on social media? I say
yes, because what is different is you are now starting to see stories of recovery.
BARNETT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: People are starting to understand things -- what these things are anf what can be done.
BARNETT: Absolutely. The people out there and the critics that are worried about whether she did this for likes or for clicks or for -- to go
viral. So what? What if she did? It should go viral. She should get lots of likes.
We want this type of story to spread. And, we want the awareness out there to know for young girls in her situation to know that there is hope. There
is help. There is something that these girls can do.
HO: But, here is my cover.
PINSKY: What Judy?
HO: But, here is my fear, Vanessa and Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: This is the problem with this, because you are then allowing yourself to be critiqued and asked questions of by people who do not know you. And,
some of this can be empowering. The majority of responses have been in her favor. They may ask of her questions that may end up re-traumatizing her.
Things that she does not want to answer.
PINSKY: Right. So, Sam, what do we do with that, with people that are so skeptical about people that come out on social media. Here is something
positive that could be done on social media, yet people want to attack her as though she was doing it just for mercenary means.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Mercenary results.
SCHACHER: -- that is never going to change, unfortunately. Every single person is on social media. That includes the S-H-I-T-T-Y ones too. So,
this is always going to happen. And, all we can do is encourage people like her to step forward.
If that means walking into a police station, if that means walking into a therapist`s office or that means to do it on social media where she is
comfortable, then halleluiah. More power to her. And, like the other panel has just statement, it is giving other people courage to then also
seek treatment and help.
PINSKY: I hope so.
BARNETT: And, there are things you can do. You can lock your comments. You can block certain comments.
HO: Yes. I agree.
BARNETT: And, then this may also change the way the health professionals tackle things because it is not going anywhere.
PINSKY: Listen. And, by the way, Vanessa, to Twitter I read an article a couple of days ago, where they say they are going to do a better job of
policing the trolls and all the horrible abuse that goes on.
SCHACHER: Oh come on!
PINSKY: But, here is job one right here. This woman is fragile. She is doing something positive. Let us go at it, Twitter. Put your money where
your mouth is.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, there is too many trolls. I would love to see that happen. There are way too many trolls.
PINSKY: This woman could just put spam or spammer on each one that is unpleasant and let us see what Twitter does with it. They have to do
something. I am telling you. And, there is a happy ending to the story. We will tell you how this young woman is doing tonight. We are back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa, Judy and Sam. Now, again, we blurred the face of that young woman because she is an alleged sex crime victim. Her story
does have a happy ending. She credits treatment, therapy and the support of her family with her healing.
And, Judy, you and I see these stories all the time. We know the profound impact of childhood trauma and the fact that it is intergenerational.
Vanessa, we are beginning to convince you that trauma and mental illness has a significant effect on people`s life.
We are bringing you around. But, my question is to Sam and what we do with the internet in getting this social media space to, A. Understand these
things. B. Not take out after these people and C. Be sympathetic about the families that are dealing with these issues.
SCHACHER: Right. Well, I would love to see more regulation. I would love to see an empowerment somehow of what we talked about earlier when you do
block someone or spam someone that, somehow, has actually dealt with, because then people invent other accounts, Dr. Drew.
And, there is so many trolls that it is hard to control them. But, I am so glad that you brought up the mother, because I am pissed right not. I was
just reading all the faCebook comments, not from our viewers but from the video that I saw it posted on, whatever thread that was on, on my Facebook.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: And, people are vilifying this mother. Vilifying her. A. You do not know all the circumstances. B. You do not know what trauma that she
has had. C. This woman is proactive. OK?
First, she believed her daughter unlike Mama June for example. Then she took her daughter to the police twice. Then she got her daughter
treatment. Then she insisted her daughter continue to go to therapy. And, let us not forget, the daughter is crediting the mother and therapy for
saving her life. So, come on, people. Give credit where credit is due.
PINSKY: There you go. And, Judy, when people blame the family, they are creating another victim. They are creating more victims. And,
particularly when a family like this, it is participating in the solution, which is how people get better.
HO: That is right. They should be commended, Dr. Drew. People make mistakes. And, it sounds like this mother may have had some of her own
issues that did not allow her to see what was going on when it was happening.
But she did ultimately do the right thing. And, I bet that she has been through some form of therapy herself, whether family therapy or individual.
So, I think people should utilize these stories as -- you know what? You have a trajectory that you start with, but you can change that trajectory.
You should feel empowered by that.
PINSKY: And, Vanessa, you carry a hatchet around -- and swing it in people once in a while. What are you feeling in this case.
BARNETT: You know, I agree with, Samantha. You give credit where it is due. This mother tried her very best and did the right thing. But, we
also need to place blame where it is due. This man is an alleged criminal. He is the one to blame.
This mother that has a 12-year-old boy that may have done things that were out of line, that is where the focus needs to go if we want to blame
someone. I know a lot of times we look for the answers, who can we blame, who is responsible for those -- these incidents? The people that are
responsible are that man and that boy that did the wrong thing.
PINSKY: Yes. And, again, what do we do with these people allegedly -- what do we do with these people is a bigger, bigger story, but w do not
have time for that right now. We want to invite you all to our hlntv.com website, webpage and to our a Facebook page where we are going to continue
the conversation about Brian Williams.
While we were on the air, we got interesting information on Facebook about someone who was there with him in New Orleans. He has -- he is defending
him. DVR us and you can watch us anytime. "Forensic Files" starts now.
END
