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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Suspected ISIS Terrorist Breaks Silence; North Carolina Murders; Interview with Republican Congressman Mike McCaul; Vladimir Putin Agrees to new Ceasefire

Aired February 12, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: The most wanted woman in the world seems to be breaking her silence.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The world lead, police everywhere frantically trying to find her. Now, in what ISIS claims is her first interview, the most wanted woman in the world, the suspected terrorist, says she wants others to follow in the footsteps of her late husband.

The national lead. Three murders fueled by rage at the very least, but the victims' families say hate also directed at Muslims is what stoked the gunman. Today, new information that hints at the alleged killer's history of anger.

And the politics lead today, President Obama, the leader of the free world, as you have never seen him before. But will use selfie sticks to sell his signature health care law actually get anyone to sign up?

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin with our world lead today. The widow at the center of a worldwide terror dragnet reappeared in a cover story on an ISIS magazine. There are no pictures, but an ISIS-affiliated journal called "Dar al Islam" says it interviewed Hayat Boumeddiene and she is now protected by the terrorists who are deep inside Syria.

Barely more than a month ago, as you might recall, Boumeddiene's husband rampaged through that kosher supermarket in France, killing four innocent men after having killed a female police officer. Now, it's unclear what role she played in those terrorist attacks, and the burqa-wearing extremist remains cloaked in mystery as well.

But a video unearthed since then shows her and her husband casing Jewish sites in Paris, hinting at her deadly intentions. Now, this interview, assuming it is legitimate, sends a clear and chilling message to would-be terrorists throughout the Western world.

And that message is kill.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): Hayat Boumeddiene, the widow of the terrorist who attacked the kosher supermarket in France, was last seen by authorities here, arriving at the Turkish airport just days before her partner, Amedy Coulibaly, began his deadly rampage across Paris.

Now ISIS claims they are protecting the most wanted woman in the world. Coulibaly pledged allegiance to ISIS before he killed four innocent Jewish men in Paris and a police officer. The extremist militant group claims to have an interview with Hayat Boumeddiene in the latest issue of its magazine.

ISIS says the 26-year-old is now in Syria, but the publication does not offer proof or photographs.

ROBERT MCFADDEN, THE SOUFAN GROUP: Anything the Islamic State says is suspect, but it is certainly plausible and plausible even that she's with the Islamic State.

TAPPER: In a two-page Q&A, she allegedly tells them Coulibaly had a heart -- quote -- "burning with a desire to join his brothers and fight the enemies of Allah on the lands of the caliphate. His eyes shone whenever he watched videos by the Islamic State."

The Q&A does not provide any details about last month's deadly shootings or her suspected role in the attack where four people were killed. But in the magazine, Boumeddiene, seen here frolicking on the beach in a bikini before taking up radical Islam, allegedly speaks directly to Muslim women, telling them to serve their husbands, brothers, fathers and sons.

French authorities are investigating whether Boumeddiene also recently popped up in this ISIS propaganda video, the woman in the front row wearing a tan head covering. Experts say Boumeddiene is a powerful prop for ISIS.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She becomes a symbol for what can be done in the West. ISIS and all of these other terrorists are focused on attacking the West, the people who believe -- who they believe have done them wrong.

TAPPER: Wherever Boumeddiene is, she could be a potential gold mine of information on the Paris attacks, terror groups and on how women get recruited. She could offer clues about how a young woman went from a bikini on a beach to a fully veiled crossbow-toting Islamic radical.

But extracting Boumeddiene from the grip of ISIS could be nearly impossible, especially now that she's in Syria, which is virtually a black hole for Western intelligence agencies.

MCFADDEN: If she is with the Islamic State, more than likely, she is somewhere in Raqqa, which is its effective capital of the organization in Syria. Raqqa is, you know, a high-density urban area, so being able to get hands on her within an area like Raqqa would be difficult.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: I want to bring CNN terror analyst Paul Cruickshank now to talk about this.

Paul, you think this is legitimate? Either way, it's likely going to be effective propaganda, but is it real?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, Jake, as you reported, that there's no proof in this new magazine that they did an interview with her.

But I have spoken to French terrorism experts and they believe that it's certainly a credible claim, not a verified claim at this point, but a credible claim from ISIS. And we know that she entered Syria the day before her companion, Amedy Coulibaly, carried out that attack on the Jewish supermarket in Paris.

And we know that he pledged allegiance to ISIS, to Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi, so it's certainly very plausible that she would now be with ISIS in Syria.

TAPPER: We know that Syria is basically a black hole for Western intelligence. If Hayat Boumeddiene is there, how will authorities be able to find her and how high a priority do you think that is at this point?

CRUICKSHANK: I think it's going to be extremely difficult indeed to find her if she is indeed there, being protected by ISIS. She's a very, very important figure.

And now when it comes to ISIS, it's allowed them to take ownership of these attacks in Paris. And, as you said, it's an intelligence black hole. Western intelligence does not have good human intelligence assets on the ground in Syria. They are unlikely to send in special forces to risk capturing her, because they could lose their lives in any operation.

So they are going to have to get lucky, perhaps some kind of airstrike. But the French are not flying combat missions over Syria right now, just over Iraq.

TAPPER: Paul Cruickshank in New York, thank you so much.

While Boumeddiene remains a big prize for the intelligence community all over the world, today, we are learning new details about Kayla Mueller. Of course, she is the latest American hostage to die at the hands of ISIS. A spokesperson for her family says that Kayla's parents asked President Obama to trade a convicted terrorist known as Lady al Qaeda for their daughter to save her life, as ISIS had proposed.

CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown is here with more.

Pamela, so we have new information about this potential swap for an al Qaeda terrorist. We also have new details about Kayla Mueller's boyfriend and his role in an attempt to rescue her.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right.

It's clear in speaking to this family spokesperson, Jake, that the family, the Mueller family explored every option possible to bring their daughter home. Even Kayla's boyfriend in Syria risked his life to save her. On his Facebook page, he posted a touching tribute.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): A heartbreaking message from the man kidnapped in Syria with Kayla Mueller, her boyfriend, Omar Alkhani. He posted this picture of Kayla holding a stuffed animal, saying on his Facebook page: "I'm sorry I didn't hold on to you with so much strength that even God couldn't take you away. You left our world for a bigger and better place now."

CNN learned Omar risked his life to rescue Kayla. He went to a terrorist training camp pretending to be her husband, but the ruse failed.

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar has counseled the family and hinted more could have been done to rescue Mueller.

REP. PAUL GOSAR (R), ARIZONA: There is some conflicting evidence that maybe the White House and the administration didn't do all they could.

BROWN: The White House denies it delayed launching a rescue attempt to save Mueller and other hostages last July. A spokesperson for the National Security Council says: "U.S. forces conducted this operation as soon as the president and his national security team were confident the mission could be carried out."

The president BuzzFeed he did everything he could.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I deployed an entire operation, at significant risk, to rescue not only her, but the other individuals that had been held, and probably missed them by a day or two, precisely because we had that commitment.

BROWN: After ISIS issued an execution deadline of Mueller last August, her family reached out to the White House in desperation and, according to a family spokesperson, asked the administration if it would consider a prisoner swap, trading U.S. prisoner, a Dr. Siddiqui, known as Lady al Qaeda, for Mueller. Even though the swap never happened, it's believed Mueller was still alive after the execution deadline passed.

As some lawmakers seek to change the way the U.S. handles hostage crises...

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), TEXAS: I would like to take a moment of silence to remember all those who lost their lives at the hands of ISIS, especially Americans James Foley, Steven Sotloff and, most recently, Kayla Mueller.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: They had a moment of silence there on the House floor for Mueller.

Meantime, the Mueller family spokesperson told us that contrary to media reports, that the family never turned down a rescue operation for Kayla after that failed mission last July. There were reports, Jake, that the family thought it was too risky. I'm being told that is not accurate.

TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown, just a heartbreaking story. Seemed like such an incredible person.

One of the biggest concerns for the intelligence community right now, the thousands of Westerners, including dozens of Americans who have gone to join ISIS. It is a terrifying problem that the U.S. government just admitted is not even close to under control. That is a quote.

So what is being done to find all these ISIS terrorists? We will ask the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Continuing our world lead with some breaking news. ISIS insurgents are battling for control of the Western Iraqi town of al-Baghdadi, less than five miles from a military base where more than 400 U.S. troops are training Iraqi security forces.

This comes as President Obama fends off bipartisan criticism of his plan to defeat and destroy the terrorist group.

Intelligence officials are now estimating that at least 20,000 foreign fighters, including 3,400 Westerners from 90 countries, have joined ISIS on the battlefield, and in an ominous warning, said many more are likely going undetected.

Joining me live from Capitol Hill right now is Republican Congressman Mike McCaul. He's chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee.

Mr. Chairman, thanks so much for being with us.

First, I want to get your reaction to this alleged interview released in this ISIS publication with Hayat Boumeddiene, the world's most wanted woman. She is believed to be safely in Syria right now with ISIS. Do intelligence officials think that this interview is legitimate?

REP. MIKE MCCAUL (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: You know, they haven't completely confirmed this. I have no reason to doubt it. We know that she left Paris, went to Istanbul into Syria, which is the trade route of preference, travel route of preference, for these foreign fighters. We know that the two brothers went to Yemen and back and of course, now we know that she -- I believe that she is in Syria. She has joined ISIS in Syria.

Demonstrates how easy it is really for anybody in Europe to travel through Turkey and Syria and back out which is the whole focus of my hearing for these foreign fighters going in and out and then coming back to Europe and possibly the United States as well. TAPPER: I want to get to that subject and your hearing in a second

but I do want to ask a couple questions about Kayla Mueller, the 26- year-old American aid worker who was slaughtered by ISIS, we believe.

There's a story in "The Daily Beast" citing a British source claiming that British intelligence sources provided information to the U.S. government on where Kayla and some other hostages were but the Obama administration delayed acting on the intelligence instead of immediately launching a rescue mission and by the time the mission was launched, of course, it was too late. The White House is strongly disputing the story.

Do you know anything about this story?

MCCAUL: Well, I know there were those communications. How quickly the White House reacted, you know, whether that led to the demise of Kayla, I can't confirm that, in fairness to the family.

I will tell you the American journalist, we had the same allegations rise there as well, that we are waiting too long to send in these rescue missions and for whatever reason, this is getting bottlenecked up in the White House and having a hard time making any decision. I think time is of the essence in these situations to save these hostages. It's very, very unfortunate what happened to her.

TAPPER: Are you concerned that the White House is not doing enough to save these American hostages?

MCCAUL: I'm concerned they're not doing enough not only to save these hostages but to win this war. All we're seeing is a policy of containment. You just talked about how ISIS is now hitting the town of al Baghdadi, named after the leader of ISIS, with American soldiers not that far away. We know that they are outside of Baghdad itself.

This policy of containment is not a winning strategy. We need a policy to defeat and destroy ISIS, once and for all. I think we need to make some serious decisions. We will have an authorized use of military force coming up to the Congress. We'll be debating about what that use of force needs to be to win this war.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about your hearing. Michael Steinbach, the FBI assistant director for counterterrorism, testified about the intelligence community's ability or inability to keep track of all the Westerners traveling to fight ISIS and then return home. I want to play a very chilling remark that he made during your hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL STEINBACH, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI COUNTERTERRORISM DIVISION: If I were to say that we had it under control, then I would say I knew of every single individual traveling. I don't. And I don't know every person there and I don't know everyone coming back. So, it's not even close to being under control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Not even close to being under control. What was your reaction when he said that? What do you think that means practically?

MCCAUL: Well, I think it was a very candid opinion and I applaud the agent for being honest in his answer.

To me, it's nothing new. I receive that in my threat briefings, but it's the first time it's come out publicly at a hearing by the FBI.

And I think what they're saying is that look, we have a rough idea that there are 20,000 foreign fighters, up to 5,000 with Western passports, hundreds of Americans who traveled over to the region. Some have come back.

But the bottom line is, you don't know what you don't know. And I think they were very candid, both homeland and FBI, about the fact we don't have adequate intelligence on the ground in Syria to properly determine how many of these foreign fighters we really have on our hands. We know what we do know. I think there's a lot more that we don't.

I think these numbers are, quite honestly, very depleted. I think the actual numbers are probably a lot higher in terms of both Americans and foreign fighters from Western Europe that have traveled the region. That is why I'm so concerned not only in what's happening over there, but in terms of protecting the homeland, making sure we keep these individuals outside the United States.

TAPPER: We are talking about 3,400 Westerners and maybe 350 or so Americans and those are conservative estimates, you think. And we just heard FBI officials say that they do not -- they are not able to keep tabs on all of them. Is this a crisis right now?

MCCAUL: Well, I mean, if you look at pre-9/11 in Afghanistan, this far surpasses what we had, the situation in Afghanistan. It just took the 19 hijackers to pull off what they did. When you are talking about tens of thousands of these foreign fighters, that is a very serious concern. It's the largest convergence of radical Islamists in a caliphate area, I don't think we have ever seen anything like this in our lifetime. So, when that threat environment is so high over there, so too to the homeland.

TAPPER: Congressman Mike McCaul, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

MCCAUL: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Coming up, it's a deal, but it's far from certain. The cease-fire is still yet to begin in Ukraine. Will Russian President Vladimir Putin really play nice this time? That's next.

Plus, the killing of three young Muslim students over what police say was a dispute over a parking place. Family members of the victims insist this was something else. This was a hate crime. The wife of the alleged shooter says no way. More on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Breaking in world news: there is a deal to end the carnage and suffering in Eastern Ukraine but only time and, of course, Vladimir Putin will decide whether this deal is real and whether it will last. The cease-fire is scheduled to take effect on Sunday. It includes a withdrawal of heavy weapons from the front lines and it gives Ukraine control over its border with Russia by the end of the year.

But as our Nick Paton Walsh found out, fighters on the front lines are very skeptical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: "I think the cease-fire is so they can gather their strength. Personally, I, with these people, can't talk peace because they have killed too many civilians." They hear rockets being fired as they move against the wall. "How can we talk to them," he says, "only with this."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Nick joins us now from Donetsk, Ukraine.

Nick, this deal, of course, all hinges on Vladimir Putin and his getting separatists to stand down. Do you think that there's a real chance of that happening?

WALSH: Well, the question is how long do they stand-down for? What we've seen has basically been the tactic in eastern Ukraine for the Russian-backed separatists, take a little bit at a time rather than lurch forward and provoke a response from Washington or NATO wholesale. The key issue is the questions already mounting, the obstacles already mounting to this cease-fire. We have 50 hours in which really everyone's going to make their best efforts to try and take as much ground as possible.

Even Vladimir Putin himself just after the deal seem to have been agreed, referenced a town of Debaltseve -- well, that's key area northeast of where I'm standing now. Ukrainian troops in it, surrounded the separatists, say (ph) by separatist militants.

Putin suggested those Ukrainians should give themselves up, effectively, as part of the deal. Kiev won't be happy about that. So, really, there's a fight in the next two days to establish what those new boundaries will be, then you have the withdrawal of heavy weapons to significant distances. But you have to bear in mind in the past, we have seen these concessions given at the start, and then people seem to rewrite the rules later down the line.

So, I think we have to watch for what happens in the weeks ahead rather than necessarily in the next 48 hours or so. We may see a temporary cease-fire but it may not last or bring a lasting settlement -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Well, hoping for the best, of course.

Nick Paton Walsh live in Ukraine, thank you so much.

When we come back, he's no stranger to selfies but you have never seen him like this before making funny faces in the mirror, shooting air hoops -- the new video of President Obama that has millions of views just in minutes. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)