Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Ceasefire to Begin on Sunday; Trial for Accused Killer of Chris Kyle; Should You Ever Hit a Child

Aired February 12, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Lawmakers are now debating the President's request to use military force against ISIS. On Capitol Hill right now, the house foreign affairs committee taking up Mr. Obama's plan to defeat and destroy the terror group. This is a live look at the hearing, actually outside of the hearing. This plan has critics on both sides of the aisle and some are predicting it will ultimately fail to come to a vote. We'll keep you posted.

It took a marathon session 17 hours for a cease-fire to be reached over the crisis in Ukraine, but peace could still be a long, long way away. That cease-fire brokered by the leaders of Russia, Ukraine and separatist groups along with France and Germany goes into effect on Sunday. It includes the withdrawal of heavy weapons. But the same heavy weapons, a military spokesman from Kiev, tells Reuters, were crossing into Ukraine even as talks were ongoing. On the front lines, those rebels well, they may not support the deal.

Our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh joins us now to tell us more. Hi -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, forget about whether or not the next 50 hours will lead to an escalation in violence that makes the idea of the cease-fire the end of Saturday impossible. And forget about whether or not the heavy weapons do get drawn back the large distances. This agreement stipulates.

You have to ask yourselves, the fighters on the ground, many different factions here, unsure command structure, are they going to listen to the diplomats? We went to one front line to the south of Donetsk and actually broke the news a cease-fire had been called to some of the separatist fighters there. Their reaction, pretty negative, a lack of trust of the enemy, of course. It's a war here. Also a feeling that they had to keep on fighting because they didn't want to be part of Ukraine again.

Here is what one of the fighters that we spoke to had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Ukrainians won't have a cease-fire. Ukraine armed forces I mean. We can resolve this conflict in only one way -- Ukraine withdraws its armed forces from the territory of the Donetsk Republic. That's the only possible way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Now, obviously that's one soldier, but a number of those fighters said similar things. They may get orders from their commanders to obey this deal, but there's so much that could go wrong, particularly in the next 50 hours. The deal says that basically whatever territory they've won with the heavy weapons they have at their disposal they can keep until that stage.

We've been here before, back in September. Then the separatists had an awful lot less territory. Now they're increasingly emboldened. You heard there, a lot of them think they need to take the whole Donetsk region before the job here is finished.

So potentially from Minsk we have a cessation of violence maybe over the weekend. But it's so far removed from a final resolution of the conflict here -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Nick Paton Walsh reporting live from Ukraine this morning. Let's talk some more about this. Joining me now is Michael Weiss. He's a fellow at the Institute of Modern Russia and a columnist for "foreign policy" magazine. Good morning.

MICHAEL WEISS, INSTITUTE OF MODERN RUSSIA: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So you hear what Nick Paton Walsh says. He's wondering if the rebels will really obey the diplomats. Will they?

WEISS: No, I don't think so. In fact today, Putin came out and told I think (inaudible), some media outlet that he expects Ukraine to essentially surrender to (inaudible) which is the city that rests along the main highway system that would connect the so-called People's Republic of Donetsk with the People's Republic of Lugansk. You know, you have the rebels saying we see only a military solution to this conflict.

And also most importantly, we've been here before. This is a cease- fire, it's kind of a warmed over 2.0 version of a cease-fire that was inaugurated in September, which was -- I mean never implemented from the moment pen hit paper. I have very dim hopes that this is going to actually amount to anything.

Also as a final point, while they were negotiating in Minsk all night, according to the Ukrainian government, something like 50 tanks -- 50 Russian tanks crossed the border into Ukraine. We can't substantiate that claim yet but it's sort of interesting that one side in this conflict is saying actually the Russians are escalating when they claim to be suing for peace.

COSTELLO: So has Mr. Putin already won, and should we all just concede that he, in essence, now controls parts of eastern Ukraine?

WEISS: Well I think this is I think this is essentially what these negotiations were about, negotiating the terms of Ukraine's surrender. The question is what kind of influence, what kind of hegemony will he have over the Donbass. According to this 11-point cease-fire agreement, one of the things that now has to be done is Ukraine has to coordinate with the separatists on everything from taxation to holding elections for greater autonomy. I mean I think this is just a fantasy, you know. What we have is a frozen conflict already in place. The question is what kind of dirty business is going to continue, not just in the foreseeable future for the term of this cease-fire, but in the long term, for years.

COSTELLO: So "The Economist" is kind of right, take a look at its cover. It shows Putin as puppet master, Putin's war on the west. I guess he is, right?

WEISS: Yes, I mean look, I would argue what the West still has in its arsenal is information that it just refuses to disclose including about Mr. Putin's personal fortune, which is estimated to be greater than any billionaire in Europe. Also the people in his inner circle in the Kremlin where they invest their money. "The New York Times" in its blockbuster exclusive today about Russians buying up apartment buildings all over New York City where I'm sitting using Shell companies. So this is the kind of thing that I think that he actually takes much more seriously. When you go after the cash, he tends to get a bit nervous.

COSTELLO: Michael Weiss, thanks for your insight. I sure appreciate it. Thanks so much.

WEISS: Sure -- thanks a lot.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the trial of the man accused in the shooting death of American sniper, Chris Kyle now under way. Up next, disturbing new details about the day Kyle was gunned down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Today we're learning disturbing new details about the day American sniper Chris Kyle was gunned down by a veteran he was trying to help. Yesterday during opening statements in court, a defense attorney read a chilling text message that Kyle sent to his friend Chad Littlefield as the pair drove to a gun range with Eddie Ray Routh.

Kyle wrote this about Routh, quote, "This dude is straight up nuts." Chad Littlefield who was also killed that day responded back, quote, "He's right behind me, watch my six." That's military slang for watch my back.

The defense claims Routh shot and killed both men because he suffered from psychosis. It was so bad the defense says Routh didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

So how will this all play out in court? Let's examine that. CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos is here. Danny -- welcome.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thanks for having me. COSTELLO: You wrote an op-ed about this CNN.com. Do you think this is

the right defense?

CEVALLOS: In a case like this where it's pretty clear that this defendant was the one who killed the two victims, it's really his only option. But lest anybody think that the insanity defense is some get out of jail free card. It's anything but. It's used in a tiny fraction of cases and of those cases, much less than half of them result in successful acquittals. So the idea that the insanity defense is letting truckloads of defendants go free and walk the streets is just not accurate.

COSTELLO: But we do know that PTSD and suicide are serious problems among former military and even current military members. According to -- I want to read you the statistics, according to the Department of veterans affairs, 22 veterans commit suicide every day, that's a suicide every 65 minutes.

To put that in perspective, that's about 8,000 veterans a year. So this is an awful problem. And of course, Chris Kyle was going to help this man, right, get over his PTSD so he wouldn't commit suicide, right? How will that play into court?

CEVALLOS: Since I think the 80s when PTSD was added to the DSM, defendants have used PTSD as an insanity defense and for other defenses like self-defense or otherwise, with very varying results. And for the most part it's anything but a consistent insanity defense.

Juries can and will find a defendant guilty, even in the face of PTSD evidence. In Texas, remember, Texas has a very stripped down insanity defense -- a very limited insanity defense where the defense must show by a preponderance of evidence that the defendant factually believed that -- did not believe what he was doing was wrong. And that's not a question of whether the defendant personally believed it was wrong, but rather that he was aware that society deems his conduct wrong.

COSTELLO: We'll see what happens. Danny Cevallos, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

Still to come, the Pope says it's ok. But we want to know is it ever ok to spank, slap or hit a child. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A provocative new miniseries debuts tonight. It's called "The Slap". The drama imagines the repercussions when a man hits a child who is not his own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe he shouldn't be swinging a bat like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go. You're out buddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put down the bat right now.

Listen to me when adults talk to you, you listen to what they're saying. Why are you swinging the bat at Rocco like that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Not his child. The miniseries is sparking discussion about spanking a child, hitting a child; and so has Pope Francis who also weighed in to this spanking issue.

Let's talk about this with Ylonda Gault Caviness, she's the contributing parenting editor at "Essence Magazine" and David Sparrow, he's the senior editor at "Parents Magazine". Welcome to you both.

YLONDA GAULT CAVINESS, "ESSENCE MAGAZINE": Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here.

DAVID SPARROW, "PARENTS MAGAZINE": Good to be here.

COSTELLO: David, I want to start with you. Isn't it an unspoken cardinal rule that you are never, never to hit someone else's child?

SPARROW: It's not even unspoken. I think it's a spoken rule. Absolutely, it is not within your boundaries to discipline another child that way. In general, you should try as much as possible to stay away from disciplining another person's child.

COSTELLO: So Ylonda, the same question to you, is that cardinal rule true under all circumstances? I mean what if your sister's kid is an annihilating your kid?

GAULT CAVINESS: In all circumstances. I agree with David wholeheartedly. I would say not even hitting. If you have a problem with a child, you go to the parent and you don't deal with it yourself.

COSTELLO: What if the parent is not around?

GAULT CAVINESS: Well, I know I was brought up in a situation where people were always sort of the eyes and ears of my parents. Back then people did discipline you. But I mean just from a practical matter, I live in the burbs, all of my kids play sports. You should see what happens when a referee called something that parents disagree with. It can cause mayhem. Talk about parents behaving badly.

It's not just the child we're talking about, although that's very important, you don't want to hurt or injure a child. Think about the culture we live in. I mean think about this miniseries.

COSTELLO: But that's exactly what I'm talking about, David.

SPARROW: Right.

COSTELLO: Sometimes the parent is as bad as the child. So how do you stop someone else's child from misbehaving if the child is misbehaving in an extreme way?

SPARROW: Right if it's an extreme way and the parent isn't doing anything, I mean if you have the opportunity to try to talk to the parent first just to make them aware of the behavior and how it's impacting your child, then you certainly are within your rights to do that.

COSTELLO: You make it sound so easy. That's not easy.

SPARROW: It's not easy. It's true. There's extreme moments. You're the adult and you have to rise above your emotions. There may be an impulse to hit, but that's not within your rights. What you can do is you can remove your child from the situation before your child gets hurt.

COSTELLO: That's true.

SPARROW: And you can gently tell the child, no, we don't hit. That's not appropriate behavior. Can you find a better way to express your emotions? But there's no way that physical contact is ever in order in this case.

COSTELLO: Well, I will say this -- Ylonda an online poll for "Parenting Magazine" found 81 percent of people have spanked their child at least once. I talked to some parents around CNN this morning, and they told me you kind of have to spank your child at least once to make them afraid of you and then you don't have to do it again.

GAULT CAVINESS: Well, that's a debate that we could have for ages. And you hear a lot of people say, well, I was spanked as a child. Look at me. I'm fine. I get really frustrated with that argument because we don't go around saying I didn't drive around in the car seat and my mother had a cocktail when she was pregnant with me and I'm ok. We know better now. That's the point.

We know better now. We know the damage that spanking causes. I have three kids and don't get me wrong. There are many times -- I mean I have a teenager -- there are many times when you do want to haul off, but you're the adult. And what you have to realize is that that's just letting out aggression. It's not disciplining your child. So let's call it what it is. It's you letting out your own emotions and you having an outburst.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So David, the pope is absolutely wrong when he says it's ok to spank your child if you don't take away their dignity?

SPARROW: The pope is absolutely wrong. I'm sorry. But I'm sure I'm going to have people that disagree with that. But the fact is, not only -- again, spanking, you're hurting your child, you're letting out your aggression, but you are not changing the child's behavior. In fact, your child is far more likely to grow up depressed, aggressive and have trouble with relationships if you spank your child on a regular basis.

COSTELLO: So that's my problem. Just kidding.

SPARROW: You need to overcome your impulse. It's just so important to be an adult.

GAULT CAVINESS: All you're teaching the child is if you're upset, hit someone. I'm sorry, David.

SPARROW: That's ok. I was just going to say, I just think you need to rise above it. I mean understand that this is a child misbehaving and it's not good behavior and it's not appropriate, but you're not going to make the situation any better by your suddenly coming in and slapping him.

COSTELLO: All right, thanks to both of you for an interesting discussion. I appreciate it. Ylonda Gault Caviness, David Sparrow -- many thanks.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a fake newsman who earned the very real trust of millions of viewers -- Jon Stewart stepping down and Jeanne Moos is looking back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Jon Stewart bids farewell and many of his targets bid good riddance, but not one CNN staffer who famously enjoys a good laugh. Here is our Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Watch 16 years fly by in six seconds.

JON STEWART, THE DAILY NEWS: Ixnay. Making you laugh.

A variety of ministries.

Change out of my work slacks.

MOOS: Jon Stewart started out slightly stiff.

STEWART: Welcome.

MOOS: And ended up loosey-goosey.

STEWART: I'm so excited.

MOOS: Who needs a joke when you've got that signature stare? He welcomed foreign presidents.

STEWART: This is an American delicacy. It's called a Twinkie.

MOOS: And bashed American presidents. For instance, after the disputed 2000 election.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: I was not elected to serve one party.

STEWART: You were not elected.

MOOS: And now, he's elected to quit while he's ahead, praising his staff.

STEWART: I love them and respect them so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love you, Jon.

MOOS: Tweeted one fan, "I regret to inform you that we are unable to accept your resignation at this time. Sincerely -- literally everyone."

Yes, well, maybe not those he chose to imitate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With all due respect, not a credible statement.

(CROSSTALK)

STEWART: Oh, with all due respect.

MOOS: Did you say respect?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: It's the right thing to do.

STEWART: Well. You carry your house around on your back.

MOOS: Mostly, he gazed. Sometimes he gawked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ever listen to your program? It's pulling out of your butt.

MOOS: After being the butt of Stewart's jokes, Arby's reacted this way to his planned departure. "Jon, feel free to reach out to us at careers@arbys.com."

Donald Trump (inaudible) Stewart's rap for eating pizza with utensils.

STEWART: Are you eating it with a fork? A (EXPLETIVE DELETED) fork?

MOOS: After that tirade, we need --

STEWART: Your moment of Zen.

MOOS (on camera): But you know what's really scary? When you're sitting at home watching "The Daily Show" and you realize, you're the one about to be skewered, give it to me, Jon.

STEWART: Covering their coverage of the Malaysian plane story.

MOOS (voice-over): A public fascination with the plaid shirts, Mitchell Casada (ph) always seemed to be wearing. Mitch's plaid shirt even started its own Twitter account.

Who's going to keep an eye on us when you're gone, Jon? Or teach us the proper way to eat pizza.

STEWART: Watch and learn, for God's sakes.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: I'll miss him, but maybe I won't -- not all the time.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. Another hour of NEWSROOM ahead.