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FBI Look Into If Three Muslims Killed Was A Hate Crime; Clock Ticks for Homeland Security Bill; Video of Dramatic Police Chase in American Sniper Trial; ISIS Battle Rages in Iraq Near U.S. Troops.
Aired February 13, 2015 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: homicide and the possibility that the homicide was convicted as a hate crime as well. When they prove motive for the homicide, they may add that he may have hated them because they were Muslim but the hate crime elements, they'll be required to prove that what he was thinking that somewhere he's going to have to have expressed to someone that he hated them because they were Muslim and that's why he killed them, even with a parking dispute, that may have been a trigger --
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Tom, how difficult is that? What do you need to prove that thinking? What are the key pieces of evidence that as an investigator you need to find?
FUENTES: You would need to find something where he has given statements to other people, friends, colleagues, family members, that he had that degree of hatred. He's posted things that were more specific than what we've seen already. His e-mails to other people. He would have to have expressed it out loud because you can't read his mind. He may very well have hated them because they were Muslim. Killed them because they were Muslim. And that may be all true. But to prove that is going to take more than just reading his mind or what appears to be the case. As far as the FBI involvement in this, Chapel Hill police invited the FBI to provide assistance to them immediately, which they didn't automatically have to do. Under the federal statute, the federal government has to show that either the state does not have a law that applies, or if they have it, they are under investigating it or choosing not to prosecute it or in some way negligent in their process and then the government can say, OK, since you won't do what's obvious, we'll do it now. Chapel hill police really helped themselves a great deal by saying the FBI has the experience and your civil rights investigators from the FBI have experience in these kind of crimes, please help us now because there will be many, many leads way beyond the immediate case of the homicide. As I said, you'll have to interview almost everybody that's ever talked to this guy in the last couple of years.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And of course, they also knew a lot of scrutiny would be on this town and on this police force especially so hopefully this is a good example of local and federal authorities in good coordination to try to get to the bottom of what motivated this horrific crime. FUENTES: The first press release the chief gave, we recognize
what this looks like beyond just the homicide. We will be looking at it as a hate crime. Some of the media reporting that implies there was no active investigation into it as a hate crime or that the FBI should be brought in when they were already in is a little bit misleading. I think that's contributing to the worldwide outrage that makes it look like the United States process, criminal justice system, is not addressing it the way it should. It's interesting to hear criticism from people and countries that don't have anywhere near the due process that we have here in the U.S.
BOLDUAN: We'll be following the facts of how this unfolds very closely.
Tom, great to see you. Thanks.
FUENTES: Thank you.
BERMAN: New for us this morning, a controversial police takedown lands one Alabama police officer on the other side of the law. Officer Eric Parker is facing an assault charges after forcing a 57- year-old man to the ground who was visiting from India and he's now partially paralyzed and in speed of spinal surgery. This happened after police approached him during his walk through his family's neighborhood. Officers were responding to a call of a suspicious man peering into garages. Minutes later, he was face down on the ground. The family filed a civil lawsuit against that police department.
BOLDUAN: And this. L.A. police are warning about the dangers of toy guns after one of their officers shot a teen in the back. "The L.A. Times" is reporting that Nicholson was walking through an alley to school when police shot him. Police meant to hit the boy next to him pointing what they thought was a gun at another person. It turns out it was a realistic looking replica with an orange tip. Police say the person did not follow commands to drop what they thought was a weapon. No arrests have been made in the case. Clearly, the case is under investigation.
BERMAN: On a much lighter note now --
BOLDUAN: Which we need.
BERMAN: -- she wasn't snoozing. She'd been boozing.
BOLDUAN: He's not talking about me this time.
BERMAN: Thanks for that awesome line. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg explained why she appeared to nap through some of the president's State of the Union.
BOLDUAN: She's stretching her neck.
(LAUGHTER)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUTH BADER GINSBURG, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: The audience is awake because they are bobbing up and down all the time.
(LAUGHTER)
We sit there stone faced. Sober judges. I wasn't 100 percent sober because we went to the State of the Union --
(LAUGHTER)
-- we had dinner together and Justice Kennedy --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the first intelligent thing you've done.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So it was not cheap wine by the way in case you thought Ginsburg drank cheap wine from a box.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Justice Kennedy brought fancy California stuff. She couldn't resist. There's one group of people I want to party with, it's the Supreme Court justices. They throw down.
BOLDUAN: She's so slight. If you have ever been --
BERMAN: She's 42 pounds.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLDUAN: She's 42 pounds, with her robe on. So a small amount will set her over. God, I love that story.
Let's get back to the news. Republicans fighting over funding the agency that works to keep us safe. If they don't figure it out soon, we could be headed to a partial shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security.
BERMAN: There's fierce fighting in a part of Iraq very close to where 400 U.S. troops are now based. Will those U.S. troops, these ground troops, get in the fight. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLDUAN: The clock is ticking on Capitol Hill. What's at stake? Funding the Department of Homeland Security. The agency that helps keep all Americans safe in the face of global terror threats. The money is going to be running out at the end of this month.
BERMAN: So Congress is butting heads on a multibillion dollar funding bill for Homeland Security. Why are they butting heads? Because the House attached a measure that would kill some of the president's executive actions on immigration. Nancy Pelosi is urging Republicans to pass a clean bill without those measures. House Speaker John Boehner used some stronger language.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We won the fight of funding Homeland Security and stop the president's unconstitutional actions. Now it's time for the Senate to do their work. You know, in the gift shop out here, they've got these little booklets on how a bill becomes a law, right? The House has done its job. Now ask Senate Democrats when they're going to get off their ass and do something other than to vote no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: I do not think that word appeared in the Constitution.
BOLDUAN: It may have been scripted. Just kidding.
BERMAN: Now some Republicans are saying that Republicans in the Senate need to give up this fight.
Republican Congressman Charlie Dent from Pennsylvania joins us.
Thank you for being with us.
You have said we need to pass a bill, pull the bandage off the scab and get it done. What is your message to Senate Republicans who keep putting this up for a vote on the floor and keep failing to get it passed?
REP, CHARLIE DENT, (R), PENNSYLVANIA: First, let me say that I think that Senator Reid should allow for the House pass bill on Homeland Security funding to proceed. They may change the bill. They can amend it any way they want and send it back to us. It's inexcusable that Senator Reid is not allowing consideration of the bill. That said, if he persists in this behavior, at some point we, the House Republicans, must be adults in the room and come February 24th or 25th, we'll have to send over another bill to the Senate and I suspect at that time it will be a clean Department of Homeland Security appropriations bill or a continuing resolution. I would prefer the clean bill. Continuing resolution would be short sighted. It would prevent us from getting to other business.
BOLDUAN: Congressman, we've seen this movie over and over again. Why are these types of fights in your view still worth it? In the end, it threatens it seems to the American public that Republicans put a poison pill in this must pass funding bill with security of our country at risk.
DENT: Let me be very clear. I discouraged our leadership from separating the Homeland Security appropriations bill from the broader omnibus package back in December because I knew we would get into this situation. I think --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: What did they say?
DENT: Well, it seemed to me that they were going to have a tough time getting a vote for the rule that we might not have gotten the other 11 bills. My view is I'm on the appropriations committee. We passed 11 of 12 appropriations bills. That's progress. I would have preferred to do 12 out of 12. I'll take 11. Here we come into the New Year. I knew for a fact that we were going to vote on a clean or cleaner Homeland Security appropriations bill. It just is a matter of when. I would prefer we do it before February 27th rather than after.
BERMAN: Congressman, let me ask you to step back and not look at this as a member of Congress but as a political analyst here. If this does not get passed and if there's no funding measure, who will get blamed do you think?
DENT: I think the institution will be blamed. I suspect Republicans will probably take a greater hit on this than the Democrats. I have to say that Senator Reid has done his level best to make sure there's no vote on a Homeland Security bill in the Senate. I suspect --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: But that's how the Senate works. That's how the Senate works. You know that. Rules are there to protect the minority.
DENT: Sure.
BOLDUAN: That's the more deliberative body. That's the way it worked when Mitch McConnell was the minority leader and Harry Reid was the majority leader.
DENT: With respect, I must say, I often say every day is the same in the United States Senate. Doesn't matter who is in charge. They start slowly and wind down from there. Under Senator Reid they never bothered starting. So I agree with you to the extent that Senate moves slowly and this is a bigger problem for the Senate. The Senate needs to get on to do other things. It takes them longer to do everything. The bottom line is we do have to pull the bandage off the scab. A clean bill is a good thing. I helped put that together. I'm on the appropriations committee. I was on the subcommittee that drafted that. It's a good bill. Let's pass it. Let's get on and we need to stop setting up these artificial cliffs because once we do that, that sucks all of the oxygen out of the capitol and prevents from us dealing with issues like tax reform, trade, transportation, cybersecurity, all of the things American people expect us to work on.
BOLDUAN: Amen on that, Congressman.
BERMAN: As you say, welcome to your world.
(LAUGHTER)
Thank you for letting us join you in your world today. Appreciate it.
BOLDUAN: Thanks, Congressman.
BERMAN: Still ahead for us, we have compelling new video in the dramatic American sniper trial. We'll tell you why this police dash cam video could be key to the defense.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLDUAN: Some dramatic video was revealed in the trial for the alleged killer of American sniper, Chris Kyle. All of this as testimony continues right now in the case against Eddie Ray Routh. Jurors were shown dash cam video of Routh taking place on a wild chase hours after he shot and killed Kyle and Chad Littlefield.
BERMAN: Also some body cam video of a 30-minute standoff between Routh and officers where Routh says, "I don't know if I'm going insane."
I want to bring in CNN legal analyst, Mel Robbins.
Mel, this gets to the crutch of this case, the insanity defense that lawyers are trying to say he wasn't in his right mind when he killed these men. He was insane. They have this video which shows him driving like a madman, no pun intended, and after this sound of him saying I might be insane. How does this play to the jury?
MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, John. Good morning, Kate. This is fascinating video because it puts the jury right at the scene and remember, this is a case where this is all going to come down to whether or not the defense can prove by a preponderance of the evidence that he can is mentally ill. He's been diagnosed with all kinds of stuff. The question is he legally insane and what's interesting here, guys, it's not a matter of whether or not he knew right from wrong. It's a matter of whether he thought society would see what he did as wrong. This evidence is key for the jury to consider to say, hey, wait a minute. Somebody in a state of psychosis doesn't flee because they don't realize what they're doing is wrong. If somebody is fleeing, talking about more souls to kill, if somebody's talking about whether or not he's not sure that he's insane, that's somebody that's telling us he kind of knows what he did and he knows that it's a problem.
BOLDUAN: Then -- now you have two kind of conflicting pieces which happens, of course, in a trial like this. You have the piece of the text message from Chris Kyle's phone saying this guy is straight- up nuts and this element of Routh leading police on a wild chase. How do you think so far it's playing to the jury? I have heard really a kind of split take on what -- how they think it will turn out.
ROBBINS: Well, you know, one of the things I keep thinking about are the ten women that are on the jury, and all kinds of jury research shows that women tend to consider mental illness when they're -- you know, like really have empathy and sympathy towards it. So I don't know how that's going to play with it. When I look at this, I find the text messages to be extremely compelling. When you have Chris Kyle texting Chad Littlefield and Chad in the backseat saying this guy is straight-up nuts and Chad is saying, hey, watch my six slang for watch my back, they're telling you in the present moment this guy is nuts. Now, let's get back to the real legal issue. He may be nuts. That doesn't mean he's legally insane, and therefore not guilty by reason of insanity. The defense here has to prove beyond a preponderate of the evidence that he was legally sane and didn't know right from wrong and the fact he fled, had a standoff with officers, a 25-minute conversation with his neighbor through the split window who was also a detective telling her that he basically knew what was wrong and telling her that there were more souls to kill, that tells me that this is somebody that may have been mentally ill, for sure, but knew what he was doing wasn't right.
BOLDUAN: Mel, thank you so much. She lays it out so well. That's difficult. May be nuts, but might not be legally insane.
BERMAN: Does the jury understand the distinction? That isn't clear.
BOLDUAN: Mel, thanks so much.
Coming up for us, ISIS fighters are closing in on an air base housing hundreds of military personnel. Fight between the militants and coalition forces. Talking about that next.
BERMAN: Nearly two million people have been forced from their homes by the fighting in Iraq and Syria. Half of those are children. You can help them. Head to our website at CNN.com/impact. We have a list of charities, good charities that are helping the kids there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Happening now in Iraq, a battle raging with ISIS militants firing rockets and mortars a few miles from a base that houses hundreds of personnel. We are told it's secure at the moment.
BOLDUAN: The base about 10 miles from the town of al Baghdadi, which ISIS took control of earlier today. This is happening in real time.
Joining us is CNN terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank; and CNN military analyst, Colonel Peter Mansoor.
Colonel, let's get to what they're facing at the air base. This sounds very dangerous. They have had -- taking rocket, mortar fire and also had eight suicide bomb attempts going at that base. But they have also said they're not evacuating. What do you think is happening?
PETER MANSOOR, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: The base is surrounded by open desert and very difficult for ISIS fighters to close on the base and stage the kind of complex attack that would be need to penetrate the perimeter. More dangerous is the rocket and mortar fire which could land on the base and potentially kill or wound U.S. service members and Iraqis, as well. But I think the base as long as they want to defend it and stay there can be secured.
BERMAN: Yeah, the question is, though, do they want to actively defend it? Affirmatively defend it. Would that necessarily, Colonel, put them in conflict with ISIS fighters?
MANSOOR: I think we want that base. It's a key strategic position in the province. To give it up would be giving is something that they really haven't earned. And it's a great launching point for counter offensive once troops are trained and ready to go and perhaps reclaim al Baghdadi and the nearby towns.
BOLDUAN: And, Paul, how important is this? The colonel is getting to it a little bit. Not only how important to the coalition, but also then, on the flip side, how important would be taking the base to is?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: ISIS won't take this base. It's a very well protected, big, sprawling base that there's really no chance that is are going to overrun it any time soon. But it makes them look strong to be able to attempt to do this and trying to take more and more territory in Anbar Province. They control 70 percent to 80 percent of the province. They went to stretch from the Baghdad area all the way back into Syria and take control of more and more town in Anbar. The high point is probably around October and only eight miles from Baghdad International Airport at that point. There's been some back and forth since then. They're still very strong, indeed.
BERMAN: Paul Cruickshank, Colonel Mansoor, thank you very much for being with us.
Again, we do note that there are battles ranging, both at this air base, key air base and the nearby town of al Baghdadi, which ISIS essentially now we're told controls.
BOLDUAN: So far not evacuating the base and say it's secure. Something CNN is following throughout the day for us.
That's it for us. Happy Friday for you.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.
