Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Discussion of NBC's Handling of Brian Williams Case; Latest on ISIS in Iraq; Fighting for the Right to Die

Aired February 13, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: He's saying three days after the invasion started. There's 18 days in between. Where was he on those 18 days? Was he using his electronic key card to go into 30 Rock or was he overseas?

And, by the way, call the photographer, the audio engineer, the producer who was traveling with him.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BANFIELD: That is a star correspondent, the anchor-in-waiting. They know exactly where he is and if he's safe.

How can this be - where is any proof needed? It's sitting right there in front of them.

STELTER: You're telling my frustration here, Ashleigh, because NBC has been silent about these matters. They say they're busy fact checking, figuring out what's happened, doing some of the research you're describing presumably and we know that the legal departments that involved which has other incident and implications as well. But they haven't answered these questions and neither is Brian Williams.

I've been text messaging all week, trying to get to the cameraman and the producer who's with Brian Williams on that Iraq war mission where they we're not struck by an RPG, and nobody's replied. We haven't heard from those staff members either. There's been -- there's this wall of silence.

BANFIELD: By the way, what about the piece of the chopper? What about the simple piece of the chopper? By the way, this is also a piece of intelligence. This is highly classified intelligence, the materials on those choppers. If it exists, is he damned if does and damned if he doesn't. If you produce the piece of chopper, maybe it's a true story. If he produces the piece that he's in possession of classified military material for this long, is that also a very, very hard fact for NBC to deal with?

STELTER: Here in the magazine I'll be -- publish the tour of Brian Williams' office about 10 days ago. They put up pictures of all the tokens, the mementos in his office. You know, the knife and the piece of the chopper do not appear in the pictures. But it gets to the point of this is either approvable or not. You know, some of these alligations have been very hard to prove in these previous crime labs (ph). This particular that have come up yesterday and its coming up today, should be pretty easy to prove or disprove because there should be photographs and other evidence that these things exist. These are the kinds of issues that should be easy to get to the bottom of.

Meanwhile, NBC is investigating everything at this point. And it started as an investigation. But one mission has become much bigger.

BANFIELD: A lot bigger. And a lot of the staff members don't work there anymore.

STELTER: That's right.

BANFIELD: But they are still around and they still have telephones, and you can easily get a hold of them to ask about, you know, corroboration.

Brian Stelter, thank you for keeping us posted.

STELTER: Thanks.

BANFIELD: Reminder, Brian's show Reliable Sources every Sunday at 11 a.m. Eastern, very, very good show obviously this coming weekend.

I want to move on to the -- a story of the ISIS fighters, who are getting so dangerous and close to a U.S. air base in Iraq with hundreds of Americans present. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: U.S. and allied air strikes may have blunted the momentum of ISIS. But today, the world's most ruthless band of militants is closer than ever to a critical air base. And in case you're wondering, yes, it is the air base that houses about 320 American troops and it is deep inside Iraq.

Security officials tell CNN that ISIS now has full control over a town that is just nine miles away from that al-Asad base. It is the largest military base in Iraq's al Anbar province. But like I said, nine miles away, ISIS is control of Al-Baghdadi.

A group of suicide bombers also today try to penetrate that base, but they -- reports came back they were killed by Iraqi soldiers before they could ply their trade.

According to CentCom, no American troops were involved, none was or is in danger. That's hard to believe, though, given what ISIS is capable of. And here's the most interesting comment, no plans, as of yet, to move those Americans out of there.

I want to bring in James Reese, he's a former Delta Force Lieutenant Colonel, CNN Global Affairs Analyst, he's also founder of a company that provides security to other companies in hot spots around the world.

Colonel, I am astounded to hear no plan evacuation at this point for the al-Asad air base when nine miles away, ISIS has taken an entire city -- oh an entire city, not an air base. And there are 320 prized victims that ISIS can't wait to get their hands on.

LIEUTENANT COLONEL JAMES REESE, U.S ARMY DELTA FORCE, RETIRED: Good morning, Ashleigh. Yeah, I disagree a little bit. We don't want to run. I mean, right now, we've got those soldiers out there, embedded. They're training the Iraqis. We've got a lot of security. And keep this in mind, if we have Americans out in the red zone, I'll call it, that, you know, they're within striking distance or at least indirect fire of the enemy mortars or rockets, we're going to have an air CAP up all the time providing close air support if need be to repel of attack.

What we don't want to see is, "Oh, my goodness, ISIS is 10 miles from us, we better bail because that doesn't make us feel good."

BANFIELD: Bail. OK. Bail is one way to say it. So I will say run like you did earlier. Is it either a case of moving, not bailing, but moving or reinforcing which is a very ugly word because it requires more boots on the ground if they're Americans and it requires Iraqis, if its (inaudible) to be Americans, the same people who usually cut and run when the going gets tough.

REESE: Yeah. Well, keep in mind, though I mean, these soldiers, these marines out there, they have very good rules of engagement. They know what they're allowed to do. There's a large element of Iraqis out there. And again, one thing ISIS doesn't have is any of the air support that we can provide.

I'll give you a worst case scenario. If we need -- did major reinforce, there are other forces that are already in Iraq, part of the current boots on the ground that are there, that can do this. They've got Special Forces teams. They have the other elements in the air that can very quickly move. So, I guarantee you CentCom has very strong plans to reinforce, if need be, and to move or evacuate to another safe heaven unless, if need be, if the Iraqis fell.

BANFIELD: OK. And I get the ordinance support that they could get and that they could get air strikes in a pinch probably from a gulf or even closer maybe Jordan, but what about that other notion of actually getting them out of there? Because if you're surrounded by presumably people with RPGs, rocket-propelled grenade, that if you take out your aircraft that are landing to pick up your guys, how do you get them out of Anbar province, and when do you make that call since ISIS seems to move with lightning strikes?

REESE: Well, keep in mind, al-Asad Air Base is a huge air base. And the standoff that it is from is incredible. So even if you had RPGs that have a very limited range, OK, you could -- the worst case is, they could land talon aircraft, AC 130 especially equipped in the middle of the night under guise land and pull 300 people out of there very quickly, if need be. And the standoff with those weapons that ISIS have would be non-existent.

So, like I said, Centcom knows how to do this. They have a plan to do it and I really don't -- there's no issues from my perspective where I sit as an analyst

BANFIELD: An analyst and a former colonel who knows a thing or two about what those things are that they're planning as we speak. And just if you could button this up, what do you think they are planning right now?

REESE: Who? The ISIS or the Americans?

BANFIELD: The Americans in terms of the 320 guys they got down there.

REESE: So right now, they're continuing to train. Remember, there's a large contingent of Iraqis out there too. They have all their heavy weapons, all their artillery out there. There's all the air CAP going on.

So that commander, that American commander on the ground is making an assessment back to the senior American commander in Baghdad. He's giving them eyes on the ground but keep this in mind, we don't want to make these decisions from Washington, the Pentagon or even Baghdad.

The guy in the ground knows what he's doing. He understands his rules in engagement and if he think he needs to get the evacuation out, he'll let them know. He knows when to do that and he has parameters set up to make -- help him make those decisions.

BANFIELD: Well, we'll be talking to you as the days progress considering all eyes are on that 9 miles stretch between a very, very deadly force and 320 Americans who like I said before are prizes in the eyes of ISIS.

Colonel Reese, thank you, always good to talk to you.

REESE: You too, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: A woman who was diagnosed for cancer but is in remission, so why on earth would she be suing the State of California for the right to take her own life?

That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: She was deeply touched by the story of Brittany Maynard, the woman with terminal brain cancer who fought for her right to decide when and how she would end her own life. Now, a woman named Christie White is launching her own battle. She's had leukemia and lymphoma since 2007, and though she's in partial remission now, she's taking preliminary measures in case her condition takes a turn for the worst.

And here's what's kind of different, she's joined in a law suit by doctors, doctors who are also plaintiffs on the suit, two of whom have terminal illnesses themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRISTIE WHITE, PLAINTIFF AND CANCER PATIENT: I am suing the state of California to help me achieve a peaceful and dignified death at the place and time of my choosing.

DAN SWANGARD, PLAINTIFF AND CANCER PATIENT: So I'm here as a physician, as a patient with cancer, but primarily as a human person, who knows in my heart that such a choice is of utmost importance for all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: California Attorney General Kamala Harris is the defendant in this law suit since she's effectively the only one who can overturn a previous law. CNN has reached out to her office but we have not yet received a response.

HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson and CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos are back with me. This is an interesting one guys, suing the Attorney General because you just want the right, not necessarily that you want to do it, you just want the right. Does this look like it's an effective way to go about this battle?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Traditionally it is. I mean, this is what citizens do all the time when they want to challenge the constitutionality of a law. And ever since the case of Marbury v. Madison, which established judicial review, that's exactly what courts can do. And specifically in this case, what they're seeking to do, these plaintiffs, they're seeking a declaration that the Assisted Suicide statute should not apply to the practice known as aid-in- dying, which is -- which fits into a very narrow description. It's anything but euthanasia. It's not murder, it's not an unlawful killing according to the plaintiffs.

And they want clarification from the court that that's what the statue means, because remember, courts are not in existence to do what's fair, what feels good. They're there to interpret the law and that's exactly what they're asking them to do.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: There is the statute. Read it word per word. "Every person who deliberately aids or advices or encourages another to commit suicide is guilty of a felony."

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: To Danny's point, judges are there to interpret the law. We have a law. What does the law say, exactly as you read it, you're guilty of a felony, felony manslaughter for which you can go to jail. Judges are in the business of interpretation, not making law. That's why we elect people.

As sympathetic and I am -- you know, to her plight, the reality is that it lies in the province of the legislature and governor who you elect.

BANFIELD: So why not go to the root of the proposition? I mean that's how a lot of things have changed state to state, and particularly in California, mount a proposition try to change a law that way. Wouldn't you have a more effective method or pipeline to the end?

CEVALLOS: Well, the answer to that is our Constitution allows us to challenge laws, and in many ways, it can be a more direct way of doing it. Certainly, it can be faster than actually passing a bill through Congress. And in this case, the -- unless you think that it's easy to interpret statutes, one of the things here is the word suicide, what exactly does suicide mean? Because in the context of aid-in-dying, suicide is viewed as something that somebody does with a psychological or emotional problem, and they perceive a non-life threatening condition as a reason to end their life.

And in fact, the polar opposite happens in aid-in-dying because a rationale person there has a very accurate perception of a terminal real illness. And it's interesting because that's what they're challenging, the definition of the word suicide.

BANFIELD: So I'm glad you said that because Kamala Harris is a democrat, and you would think that this would be something she would really be able to chew, but it's those words that keep coming up, assisted suicide, instead of death with dignity or aid-in-dying. And when that becomes the political football, it becomes tough.

JACKSON: It's a bill.

BANFIELD: Is it political though?

JACKSON: It is because of the fact that legislators make laws. And in fact, there's a bill in California because of this case that is seeking to amend the law. It's patterned after Oregon's law where they do allow this that would seek to have physicians assist people who unfortunately are in their last days and are in a lot of pain. But prior to having the law legislature enact, debate, amend, and fair it out whether this is the appropriate public policy decision to make. It's hard to challenge a law that is on the basis of, you know what, it should be different.

BANFIELD: I always find it amazing that the doctors are the plaintiffs as well, themselves, facing the issue.

Guys, thank you for that.

CEVALLOS: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: There's another legal issue that we've been telling you about the last couple of days. A federal judge in Alabama says that a probate judge in that state in Mobile County has no choice. That judge must issue marriage licenses to same sex coupes no matter what anyone else says. Because although a judge struck down the state's ban on same sex marriages in January, some probate judges said too bad, they just refused to issue the licenses because they were under an order from the Chief Justice of Alabama Supreme Court, a man named Roy Moore, you probably heard of him.

So, the federal judge is now sending a very strong signal, like a megaphone, to other state judges to issue the licenses in their counties, and that's that. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Remember when Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg seemed to be super duper sleepy at the State of the Union Address. It turns out there's a really, really good reason for this and she is admitting it. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You went to the State of the Union this year and you fell asleep.

RUTH BADER GINSBURG, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: As I often do.

ANTONIN SCALIA, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Serve you...

GINSBURG: And it's...

SCALIA: Serve you right I say, it serves you right for going.

GINSBURG: Well, I have lost a dear, dear colleague who sat next to me. This is David Souter. When he was on the court, he was on one side and he had a -- an acute sense of when I was about -- and so he would give me a pinch.

Now I have Justice Kennedy in one side, Justice Breyer, and they're sort of timid about that. They...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, they sort of go like this -- they sort of -- like that. They don't pinch you.

GINSBURG: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think you have to give them license to pinch.

GINSBURG: But it's -- the audience for the most part is awake because their bobbing up and down all the time. And we sit there, stone faced, sober judges. But we're not -- at least I wasn't a 100 percent sober because before we went to the State of the Union, we had dinner together. And Justice Kennedy brought...

SCALIA: Well that's the first intelligent thing you've done.

GINSBURG: Well, there was a time you came to those dinners, especially -- there was a Opus something or other, a very fine that Justice Kennedy brought. And I vowed this year just sparkling water, stay away from the wine, but in the end, the dinner was so delicious it needed wine to accompany it. So, I got a call when I came back home from one of my granddaughters and she says "Bubbe, you were sleeping at the State of the Union."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: (inaudible), RBG hadn't drunk the whole thing.

Hey, thanks for watching everybody. Jim Sciutto is sitting in for Wolf and he starts after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)