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Ukraine Ceasefire Now In Effect: Will It Hold?; Official: Terrorists Networking More Than Ever; Ukraine Ceasefire Took Effect at Midnight; Another Snow Storm Headed for New England; Panetta Concerned Congress Could Block Obama's AUMF; Did U.S. Do Enough to Save Hostages?

Aired February 14, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta, in for Poppy Harlow.

We're following breaking developments after a day of terror in Denmark. Two heavily armed gunmen stormed a free speech event in Copenhagen, firing as many as 30 to 40 bullets into the crowd. A 40- year-old man was killed, three police officers wounded.

At this hour, a massive manhunt is under way for the suspects. One is believed to be this man. The possible target of the attack cartoonist Lars Vilks. He has faced death threats before for his portrayals of the Prophet Mohammed. We'll have the latest on that developing story in just a moment.

But first, this is the hour the people of Ukraine have been waiting for. A cease-fire is now in effect between pro-Russian separatists and Ukraine's military forces. But will it hold? That is the question right now.

President Obama called Ukraine's president today to stress the need for all sides to honor this agreement. The two men agreed to stay in close contact in the days ahead. We have reporters all around the zones of this conflict.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Donetsk, Ukraine, seeing if some of today's worst shelling. In fact, we've heard some of that shelling during his live reports this afternoon. Frederik Pleitgen in Mariupol which also saw a barrage of shelling. And Matthew Chance in Moscow. Let's start first with you Nick. When we first talked to you earlier this afternoon and throughout the afternoon we heard explosions over your shoulder. What about now? What's happening right now?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's just turned midnight. And if I pause --

ACOSTA: You can still hear it.

WALSH: You can hear the shelling impacts. Yes. The shells have been silent for about 20 minutes, but I've heard about 30 or 40 impacts in the last few minutes as that deadline approached. Now, I should point out that obviously many of the forces here do have poor communications. There could be miscommunication here about when the cease-fire is supposed to start. But we had a clear moment of silence for about 20 minutes, and now we're hearing this. Which does for all purposes sounds much like shells landing somewhere. We don't know where because from this vantage point we often hear explosions that are very far away.

So, I can't tell you where exactly those shells are landing. We did briefly heard small arms fire on two occasions as well. So, at this key moment after we just have heard from Petro Poroshenko, the Ukrainian president who spoke to Barack Obama hours ago about the need for the cease-fire to be respected, he also spoke to Angela Merkel and Francois Holland. At this stage now we're not hearing a noticeable change in the sounds behind me.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. Not Nick. Yes, we can hear that shelling very clearly at this hour. And Fred, you're in Mariupol. It also came under attack. Set the scene for us there. Are you also hearing shelling there?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now we're not hearing any shelling from our vantage point, Jim. But that doesn't mean that there isn't any going on. And certainly the messages that we've been getting from sort of the battalions that are fighting on the Ukrainian side of the equation. They say that today was actually one of fiercest days of battles that they've seen at all. It's unclear whether or not that might have been the two sides just jostling preposition where shortly before the ceasefire goes into effect or whether or not that is a bad sort of thing to tell what might come ahead.

But what we've hears is that there were several casualties on the side of pro-Ukrainian force. There's fighting specially around the Eastern villages, around town of Mariupol which a strategically very important port town. Mariupol also is one of the last towns before Crimea, which will of course be very important for the pro-Russian separatists to try and create some sort of a land bridge from Russia proper all the way to Crimea which would annexed in 2014.

So certainly the vibe that we were getting from the forces that we were out with today, we were on the frontline. Their shelling there was constant as well. None of them trust that the cease-fire will hold. They say the Ukrainians for their part say that they want to adhere to the cease-fire from their vantage point, they don't believe that the other side will do so as well.

But of course, in a conflict of that, it is almost possible to tell which side would break such a cease-fire if it were to happen. We heard for instance today one Ukrainian commander tell us that all they're doing is reacting to the other side firing at them. And as he was telling me this, there was a voice over his walkie talkie saying our artillery is now firing. So it's very difficult to tell who, at what point starts which sort of trade of firing here in this conflict zone. But I can tell you there's very little trust among these two sides. And certainly from what I've seen on the front lines around this town it appears to me as though at least the Ukrainian forces are digging in rather than getting ready to pull back -- Jim. ACOSTA: And Matthew Chance, any word from Russian authorities

tonight? Do they plan to abide by the cease-fire? They were part of this agreement. So one has to assume that's the plan.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. As you've heard, the guns in Eastern Ukraine may not have fallen silent but the kremlin has certainly gone very quiet. Within the past few minutes, there's been a very short statement issued by the Kremlin confirming that Vladimir Putin has spoken with the French President Francois Hollande and the German Chancellor Angela Merkel. It was a very short statement. All he said is that the leaders stressed the need to implement the Minsk agreements and saying that they would talk again at some point very soon in the future. And so, that's what we've had from the Kremlin officially.

And that reflects, really, the Kremlin's position which is that look, you know, we're sponsors of the peace deal but we're not actually parties to the conflict, despite of course all of the evidence and all of the accusations against them for supplying not just weapons but regular troops to the conflict zone. The Kremlin denies that, saying they're just sort of outsiders trying to lend a helping hand. And that's why they're saying it's not up to them to implement this peace deal. But they're calling on all of the rebels inside nor that the government forces taking part in the conflicts to stand by their commitments.

ACOSTA: And hopefully that shelling that we were hearing in Nick Paton Walsh's live shot will be the last of the shelling that we'll hear for some time. Matthews Chance in Moscow and Frederik Pleitgen in Mariupol, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it. We'll be checking back with both of you.

And back in Denmark, let's turn back to the situation in Copenhagen where police are on the hunt for two heavily armed gunmen who opened fire on this building where cartoonist Lars Vilks and his supporters had gathered earlier today. Vilks survived but the attacks come just weeks after the massacre at the "Charlie Hebdo" offices in Paris. A witness to today's rampage described to us how it all went down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS MAYHOFF BRINK, DENMARK SHOOTING WITNESS (on the phone): A French ambassador had just said a few words about the "Charlie Hebdo" incident. Until we suddenly heard the shots like out of nowhere. I'm not sure how many, 30 or 40 shots from the room next door which was the entrance room. And we also heard a person yelling something. I think it was in an Arabic language. And yes, everybody of course panicked in the room and tried to run through doors or hide behind tables or chairs, stuff like that. I was on my way out myself actually. But then we heard a number of shots from the street as well. And then we didn't actually run out. So we were just hiding as good as we could and hoping for the best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining me now is CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruikshank and author of "Agent Storm: My Life Inside al-Qaeda." Paul, the entire country of Denmark has been placed on high alert. This follows obviously as we were just saying what happened in Paris just weeks ago, what do you make of all this?

PAUL CRUIKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That's right, Jim. Just about a month after those terrible events in Paris, so this may well have been inspired by what happened in Paris when the "Charlie Hebdo" satirical magazine was a target. Of course that magazine had put out some of these cartoons. And Lars Vilks, the Swedish cartoonist, put out a cartoon in 2007 depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a dog. And ever since then he's been on ISIS and al-Qaeda target lists. The head of ISIS back in 2007, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, put out a $100,000 bounty if someone were to kill Lars Vilks with a $50,000 bonus if they were to slit his throat. We've also seen similar kind of messages from AQAP in Yemen and the Somali group al-Shabaab.

Ever since those cartoons first came out in 2005 in Denmark and in the Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten, there's been a real significant threat in Denmark and a string of terror plots against the cartoonist and the newspapers that have published them. But this is the first time that someone has been actually killed in Denmark. Obviously very worrying development. A lot of worry that those two gunmen are still out there at large and they could strike again. And we saw of course with the Paris attacks that that played out over a several-day period. These men are armed and dangerous. And they're likely to want to go out in a blaze of glory -- Jim.

ACOSTA: And earlier we heard Nick Robertson say Denmark has the largest number of people per capita leaving that country and becoming radicalized. What is going on there?

CRUIKSHANK: Well, there's a significant radicalization problem in Denmark. There's a sort of big refugee population for the Arab world from South Asia, also from Somalia. They've not become very well integrated into Danish society. There's a lot of alienation. And so some have been radicalized. And we've seen 150 Danish extremists travel to Syria and Iraq. The vast majority of those have joined ISIS. Fifteen of those were killed in Syria and Iraq including two women.

But 70 have returned to Denmark. And obviously the Danish intelligence offices is very, very worried about those 70 ISIS fighters who have returned to Denmark, that they are a very significant security threat because of the types of experiences and training that they would have had in Syria and Iraq. I mean, many of these people have killed a lot of people over there. And right throughout Europe, Jim, there's really this unprecedented terrorism threat because of those travel flows to Syria and Iraq and the fact that more than 750 individuals have come back.

ACOSTA: That's right, Paul. And as we know the President is about to host a violent -- countering violent extremism summit, you know, to try to deal with this problem. Because it not only is a worry in Western Europe, it's a worry in the United States. And it's exactly the scenario you just described. People who are disenfranchised in their own countries going down to Iraq and Syria, getting training then coming back and having the potential to unleash attacks like the one that we saw today. We don't know exactly what led to this attack today or who the people were who were involved in it. But potentially that is the type of scenario that you just laid out and that the Obama administration is trying to deal with as well. Paul Cruikshank, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Now, since the attack on "Charlie Hebdo," law enforcement in France, the U.K., Spain, Belgium, Greece, Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands have made hundreds of arrests trying to smoke out the sleeper cells.

And former CIA operative Bob Baer joins me now on the phone. And Bob, countries all over Europe are stepping up efforts to find these terrorists. Are they getting more intelligence? What do you initially think about when an attack like this happens? How do you start piecing together the information?

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: Well, the problem is these groups are so desperate. And they're not all connected. It's very difficult to run them all down. Even when the police coordinate. And in a country like Denmark, the police aren't -- it's an open society. They're not particularly efficient. And it's not a police state. So if you have a Somali coming home, they don't usually monitor them unless there's really good evidence to. You also have to look at these movements as I've watch them they're becoming more apocalyptic.

They want to confront European society, they want to confront the United States. It's an attitude of almost end times. And I think what ISIS would like to happen is to force the United States and other western countries to intervene in Iraq and put boots on the ground. I think ultimately that's what they'd like to do. And if they go to the west and start shooting people, we are going to be more -- Americans are going to be more receptive at the very least to sending troops to Iraq. And that's exactly what the Islamic State wants. Because as I said this is some sort of apocalyptic conflict which they think they can win because they're backed by Allah.

ACOSTA: All right. Bob Baer, we'll going to be talking to you on the other side of this break. So, stay with us.

Europe is not the only continent battling terror cells, this treat to the homeland is just as real here in the United States. Hear why the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee says, we face a greater threat now than back in 2001. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: More than 13 years after the horrific events of 9/11 and protracted wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the world seems even more dangerous and less stable than ever. Senator Richard Burr, the republican chairman of the Senate Select Intelligence Committee didn't mince words as he spelled out the threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BURR (R), CHAIRMAN, SELECT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I've spent more than ten years as a member of the House and Senate Intelligence Committee, as has the vice- vice-chairman and have watched closely the threat environment as it evolved since the attacks of 9/11. The threats we face today are much greater than those we faced since 2001. Al Qaeda in 2001 was estimated to have less than 1,000 members. The group was relatively geographically contained. Today we face groups like the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant which is often described as a terrorist army with memberships estimated to be in the tens of thousands. We face terrorist safe havens spanning North Africa, the Middle East and South Asia, and are confronted by a host of different plots almost daily.

One of the biggest lessons we've learned from September the 11th attacks was that we cannot give terrorists a sanctuary from which to plan attacks against us. Arguably, ISIL now has control of the largest territory ever held by a terrorist group. This safe haven provides ISIL and other extremists with the time and space they need to train fighters and to plan operations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: CNN national security analyst Bob Baer is still on the phone with us. And terrorism analyst Paul Cruikshank, he is also here to offer his expertise. And there is little doubt that Islamic fundamentalism has been defeated here. It has not been defeated, it has emerge hydro like since 9/11. And I was talking to the former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta for an interview that is going to be on CNN State-of-the-Union tomorrow. And he really describes the situation where ISIS is essentially al Qaeda all over again. Is that where we are right now, Bob?

BAER: I think it is. I think it's pointless to try to differentiate between al Qaeda and the Islamic State. They draw on the same doctrine. They believe in the same apocalyptic beliefs, the west against the east. The Islamic State is I think actually more violent with these executions we've seen and the burning of the Jordanian pilot. But everything is intentional. They are drawing recruits. And frankly it surprised me that there's been so much attraction in the west and in other Arab countries which were not susceptible to this. So I think while we are winning in a sense on the battlefield, they're bringing in so many recruits and so many are coming back that this problem is out of hand. And I just can't tell you when it's going to stop. Because I keep saying it's some sort of epidemic which we really can't understand.

ACOSTA: And Nicholas Rasmussen who was the director of the National Counterterrorism Center, he testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee earlier this week that terror groups are more organized than ever. He said and we can put it up on screen, ISIL otherwise known as ISIS has reached out and developed affiliated relationships, endorsement-like relationships with groups outside of Iraq and Syria, including in North Africa, including in Algeria and including I believe Yemen. All of that just adds to the picture of an interconnected terrorist network with the ability to share resources, personnel, expertise and trade crafts in a way that serves as a multiplier to their own capabilities. And that's a disturbing trend. If ISIS and al Qaeda have been degraded as the administration insists, how is it possible, Paul, for this threat to keep growing? And I guess the other question is, and it gets to this encountering violent extremism a summit that the President and the White House is going to be holding later on this week. I guess the key is to stop the flow of these fighters coming and stop the flow of these reinforcements coming in. And Paul, you've looked at this issue. How do we go about doing that? Sounds like a generational challenge.

BAER: Well, it's going to be very tough. Because right now about 1,000 foreign fighters joining ISIS and other groups in Syria and Iraq every month. Many of them are traveling through into Turkey. And obviously you can try and stop them from trying to travel. The Turks are cracking down to some degree. But if young men want to travel to Syria and Iraq and young women as well, it's quite difficult to stop them because of course Turkey is such a big holiday destination. How do you know who's going there for a beach vacation or who wants to go and fight jihad in Syria and Iraq is a pretty porous border as well. So, there's a limited amount you can do to stop this people travelling. Of course, the big worry is about the people coming back. More than 750 have returned to Europe. Fewer have returned to the United States. Perhaps a dozen or so. But we were told on Friday, on Wolf's show, Senator Rich saying some of those who return to the United States are actually ISIS fighters.

So a concern about the terrorist threat from ISIS in the United States. And concern as well that ISIS is now pivoting towards launching attacks against the west. With that plot in Brussels last month which the Belgium authorities believe was orchestrated by the ISIS leadership, they believe that was going to be a major spectacular attacks that they were planning there. The belief now is that ISIS are pivoting towards launching attacks in the west. This is a group with very conservative resources. Up to thousand westerners in their ranks. Tens of millions of dollars of cash reserves. All those training camps, bomb experts who can provide that training. So I think there's a lot of worry about the terrorist threat. It's an unprecedented terrorist threat in Europe right now. Bigger than in any time ever. Yes. Before 9/11, after 9/11 from the European perspective. From the United States point of view there are fewer Americans who have gone to travel. So the threats lower than in Europe. There is a worrisome that some of these Europeans could get on a plane and come to the United States -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Paul Cruikshank, Bob Baer, thanks very much for that. And don't miss tonight. Because Paul, you just saw there is featured in a CNN special report "Double Agent: Inside al-Qaeda for the CIA." Timely CNN's special about a Danish man who embraced radical Islam before switching side and becoming a top level secret agent. "Double Agent: Inside al-Qaeda For the CIA" airs tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

A cease-fire between Ukraine and Russia. The moment has arrived. We're a few minutes in but will it hold? We will discuss.

And plus, Boston has been buried in nearly six feet of snow. And it's hard to believe but more is on the way. You've got to feel bad for the folks up there. Maybe send a care package to your mom if she's up there in New England or a relative. They need all the help they can get. We'll have more on that coming up in just a few moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETRO POROSHENKO, UKRAINE PRESIDENT: It's my first step, I issue the order right now to the armed forces of Ukraine, the National Guard of Ukraine, to the detachment of the ministry of the interior, to the divisions of the border administration of Ukraine and separatists services of Ukraine to cease the fire at 0000, 15th of February, midnight. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And there you have the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko announcing that the cease-fire is in effect. And we are now 25 minutes past that deadline. It's important to note when we spoke to our Nick Paton Walsh in Donetsk at the top of this hour we could hear shells exploding over his shoulder.

But Nick got back to us. We're told now that it is quiet at his position in the Eastern Ukraine and that important city of Donetsk. We'll see if that holds. The fighting has been raging all day long, though, as Eastern Ukraine cities of Donetsk and Mariupol took heavy shelling. Foreign policy magazine columnist Michael Weiss joins us now to talk about the situation in Ukraine and the pro-Russian separatists have rejected previous calls for cease fires. Michael, do you think they'll comply this time?

MICHAEL WEISS, CO-AUTHOR, "ISIS: INSIDE THE ARMY OF TERROR": No, I don't think so. Because the self-declared prime minister of the People's Republic of Donetsk Alexander Zakharchenko said today that Debaltseve which is the town that has seen the most intense violence in the last few weeks, it's sort of a lynchpin town and a road system that would connect the two main separatists' enclaves. He says that this town is not featured in the cease-fire negotiations. So, in other words separatists can continue violence there. However, the catches, if the Ukrainian forces there, and there are several thousands of them, if they try to escape or if they try to resist, that will be a violation of the cease-fire. So this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

ACOSTA: Right.

WEISS: And I think that's the place to watch.

ACOSTA: And you set up that perfectly, Michael. Because I mean, here's the question. Everybody, I don't think is there a soul on this planet that thinks that the cease-fire is going to hold? I mean, please find that person and put them on the air with us right now.

WEISS: Yes.

ACOSTA: Because I don't think there's anybody who thinks that the cease-fire is going to hold. And so I'm just curious, from your point of view, what is Vladimir Putin up to? Because obviously he's supplying the weapons to these pro-Russian separatists, giving them the ability to drag this civil war out with the Ukrainians. What do you make of that? What do you think he's up to here? What's the end game?

WEISS: Well, there are two hypothesis going. One is that he just wants to mire Ukraine in devastation, keep the economy in taters, prevent the country from rebuilding itself. Then there's the hypothesis I tend to believe which he wants the so-called land bridge that would connect main land Russia to the annexed Peninsula Crimea. And to do that, he needs Debaltseve and then he needs also Mariupol which is another town that witnessed some pretty intense artillery shelling over the last several days.

Today, the U.S. ambassador to the Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt, put up images, satellite photography images that the U.S. has obtained showing expressly Russian military equipment stationed in Debaltseve. So, I mean, this is stuff that Ukrainian army does not have. I think he then followed up by saying the separatists are now in possession of the kind of advanced material that some NATO E.U. countries haven't got. So, I live it at that. I mean, there's Putin's ultimate objective right there.

ACOSTA: All right. Michael Weiss, thanks very much for that perspective. We appreciate it.

WEISS: Sure.

ACOSTA: Let's turn now to another major store that we are watching, the weather of course. And where else would it be bearing down but on the northeast? This is not welcome news in Boston which already has a staggering 80 inches of snow on the ground.

Let's bring in CNN Meteorologist Derek Van Dam. Derek, the governor of Massachusetts is asking folks to stay off the roads tonight and tomorrow. I feel like we've heard this story before. When you see the live shots of the snow piled up, you know, they almost have to carve pathways through the roadways so people can drive down these roads up in New England, it's unimaginable to think how high can they pile that snow up. What's it look like up there?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I think the big question is where to put all the snow as well. Cupid is definitely going to need a couple extra snow blowers to do his job here on Valentine's Day.

We can blame three different storms, Jim, starting at the end of January and leading right up to about now to that epic 80-inch snowfall total in Boston. We have millions of Americans currently under some sort of winter weather advisory or blizzard warning or winter storm warning, namely across the eastern half of Long Island and to the coast of Connecticut as well as the coast of Massachusetts and Maine.

Now, this storm actually hasn't even moved offshore as we zoom into the New York and Boston region. You can see it's already started to snow across this particular area. Snow bands will become pretty intense for the Boston region, especially overnight. Then we start to focus on the cold air and the wind that will build in behind this system as the storm deepens and strengthens very quickly off the New England coast.

Computer models still skeptical on exactly how much snow we can expect. Boston definitely getting into some of the higher totals. Upwards of just around 10 inches of snow expected with only two to four inches expected for the Big Apple. As I mentioned, strong winds overnight and into Sunday. Near hurricane force for Nantucket and the coast of Massachusetts. Gusts up to 50 miles per hour perhaps for the Big Apple and into Hartford, Connecticut. That is going to plunge our wind chills well below freezing. Look at New York, by Sunday morning, 15 below, and a temperature of 5 degrees. I can put that on my hands.

We have lots to talk about in the Weather Center. The storm is going to keep us very busy over the next 24 hours -- Jim?

ACOSTA: Absolutely. Maybe an excuse for people to stay indoors up in New England. It is Valentine's Day after all. Maybe cupid knows what he's doing this Valentine's Day.

Derek, thanks very much.

VAN DAM: You're welcome.

ACOSTA: Coming up after the break, former defense secretary, Leon Panetta. I talked to him about all of these major foreign policy challenges. He's our guest on CNN's "State of the Union" tomorrow morning. We're going to have a bit of, a portion in that interview in just a few moments. It's going to be surprising for you to hear what he thinks is the greatest national security challenge facing this country. That's coming up in just a few moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Six months after the U.S. started dropping bombs on ISIS, President Obama wants Congress to make it official and approve his Authorization for Use of Military Force, otherwise known as an AUMF. The president needs to win over nervous Democrats who are afraid of an endless war, and Republicans who suggest his proposal is too vague. The president has a proposal that puts a three-year time limit on the ISIS fight, the battlefield would not be restricted to Iraq and Syria, and the U.S. could expand its geographic foothold in that fight against ISIS, and no U.S. boots on the ground, sort of. You have to look at the language in the AUMF. It says "no enduring offensive ground combat operations."

I spoke with former defense secretary and CIA director, Leon Panetta, about all this and the impact of possible road blocks in Congress. It's something he's concerned about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY & CIA DIRECTOR: The president needs to get this done. It's going to take a continuing commitment.

Look, you want to know what the biggest national security threat to this country is right now? It's the total dysfunction in Washington. The fact that so little can be done by the Congress. They can't even resolve the issue of Homeland Security. They can't deal with budgets. They can't deal with immigration reform. They can't deal with infrastructure. They can't deal with other issues. If they wind up not being able to deal with this war authorization, that sends a terrible message to the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And more from my interview with Leon Panetta airs tomorrow when I host CNN's "State of the Union" at 9:00 a.m. eastern.

Let's bring in our political commentators, Ben Ferguson, in Dallas; and here with me, Marc Lamont Hill.

Ben, how are Republicans responding to this AUMF proposal? And I want to ask you about what Leon Panetta just said. I think that may even be more important.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure.

ACOSTA: The fact that Washington dysfunction could be our greatest national security threat. If we can't pass a war authorization for a war that really started five or six months ago, what exactly are members of Congress doing here in Washington?

FERGUSON: Well, I think one of the biggest concerns is this. You have a lot of people that really are looking at this and they're saying it's pretty vague. So what is he actually asking for us to do? Is he saying we're going to war? Are we going to limited war? Are we going to just keep doing what we're doing right now? And so most of the Republicans that I've spoken with, their biggest concern is almost that this is not doing enough to actually take on ISIS. And it may look like we're trying to do something instead of actually doing it. So I think there's plenty of support in Congress. But I think the president has to be a little bit more blunt about this and explain exactly what his goal is, because it seems pretty generic at this point and minimal at best.

ACOSTA: Marc, you buy that?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that it's vague, for sure. But I don't think that the vagueness means that the president can't do much. I think it might mean that the president might end up doing too much. This allows him to fight an essentially endless war across big geographic territory. We could fight a ground war as long as it's not an extended period of time. That's very dangerous. The Republicans I'm speaking to are saying we don't like this, particularly we don't like it if Obama is prosecuting this war because we don't think he's serious enough on the war against ISIS.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: Agreed.

LAMONT HILL: But they also don't want to exclude language that would allow the next president, who could be a Republican president, from being able to do the same thing. In a sense it's not so much they don't like the language. They don't like the language when it comes to Obama. Democrats on the other hand --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Everybody can't have it their way on this issue.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Ben, I guess what message -- this is what Leon Panetta's point is. What message does it send to ISIS and the rest of the world if this country can't get its act together and pass this authorization?

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: I think the biggest issue right now, the fact that Republicans are saying, Mr. President, are you really serious about taking on ISIS? Is this anything different than exactly what we're doing right now, except now it sounds bigger because you're going to Congress. I would hope that the president would say, hey, we need to all get in a room and show unity here. I don't think you're going to have a problem with Republicans activating or being in support of an actual war on ISIS. I think most Republicans believe we've not done enough and the president has not taken them serious. So if he wants to actually take on ISIS, it will be very hard to find Republicans who don't say yes to it.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Marc Lamont Hill, are Democrats going to back up this president? They were complaining almost as soon as this authorization was made public. Are they going to back him up on this?

LAMONT HILL: I think ultimately if we tweak the language a bit. Democrats have to be principled on this issue and not say wars are bad when they're Bush's wars and not good when they're Obama's wars. I don't want to give anyone that much authorization and access to the entire geopolitical sphere to prosecute wars. That's very, very dangerous. We need very precise language. That's what's missing right now.

I disagree with Ben's assertion that the president hasn't been serious on fighting ISIS. Even if I disagree with the president's strategy --

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: If this is serious, we're in serous trouble.

LAMONT HILL: Let me finish the point, Ben.

I disagree with the president's strategy, but I think it's unfair to say that Democrats or Republicans are not serious about ISIS. We can disagree about saying they don't take the threat seriously. I think what the president needs to do and all of us need to do is account for what got us here, the occupation of Iraq, number one. Number two, we need to realize troops on the ground in any form are not the answer. We need to empower the Iraqi army, we need to strengthen Peshmerga forces in the north, we need to strip away private funding coming from Saudi Arabia or anywhere else. And we need to direct our energy in those places because --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Ben, let me put this question to you.

FERGUSON: Sure.

ACOSTA: Because I think this is one of the main questions in all of this. And I think Marc touched on it. That is, how far will these boots on the ground go? We've been told that they can be involved in missions to take out ISIS leadership, rescue missions, calling in air strikes, that sort of thing. But at the same time, if you look at this AUMF, it does leave that sort of wiggle room there for potential combat missions down the road. There could be an expansion.

FERGUSON: Yeah.

ACOSTA: So I guess my question to you, Ben, how far can we expand this mission without getting dragged into another quagmire?

FERGUSON: Well, I think the number-one issue is this. You don't go into war with limitations when you have an enemy that's as vile and sadistic as ISIS and ISIL. These guys will change and adapt and do anything they can to possibly survive, win and kill others. So to walk in there and for to us have a big grand scheme of limitations would be incredibly naive. We've got to do something that gives the military the ability they need to actually get their job done.

LAMONT HILL: But that's a contradiction, Ben. Ben, you just said --

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: It's not a contradiction.

LAMONT HILL: Ben, you just said the language --

FERGUSON: You need to go after them.

LAMONT HILL: Ben, you said the language is too vague and you need something more precise five minutes ago. Now you're saying you want something broad --

FERGUSON: I'm saying the president is putting limitations on it. We shouldn't be putting limitations on it. We need to be blunt and bold.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Gentlemen, let's take a timeout here. We're going to go to break. And Ben and Marc, we'll bring you right back. We'll continue this conversation in just a few moments. Also, the parents of an American hostage executed by ISIS claims the

White House knew their location for months but did not act. The details coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Did the U.S. government do enough to rescue hostages from ISIS? According to a report in "The Daily Beast," no, that is not the case. The U.S. government obtained intelligence on the possible location of American captives held by ISIS in Syria last year. According to this report, the Obama administration officials waited nearly a month to launch a rescue mission because of concerns that the intelligence was not conclusive and some of it came from a foreign service. The report goes on to say that, by then, it was too late.

Now, I can tell you from talking to my own sources at the White House, senior administration officials are pushing back strongly against that report, repeatedly saying that they did everything possible that they could to try to save Kayla Mueller, Stephen Sotloff, James Foley and Peter Kassig, American hostages being held during that time. What more could have been done?

Here's our Pamela Brown with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Intelligence suggests 26-year-old Kayla Mueller was given to a male ISIS fighter, possibly as a bride, after she was kidnapped in Syria in 2013, according to U.S. government officials. Officials say there are also indications Mueller converted to Islam, a practice seen in the past by hostages in the Middle East.

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA ANALYST: These hostages are under severe duress for a very long time and threatened with death and so forth. For them to say that we are going to convert to the religion of our hostage takers suggests that maybe they can curry favor that way.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: CNN has learned that pictures sent privately to Mueller's family from ISIS helped confirm her death. According to a U.S. official, pictures included Mueller wearing Muslim garb and a picture of her wrapped in a burial shroud. A stark contrast from the brutal beheadings of other male hostages.

Former FBI hostage negotiator, Chris Voss, says it's clear ISIS treated Mueller differently.

CHRIS VOSS, FORMER FBI HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Because she was a remarkably decent human being, and because she was a woman, that it wouldn't be surprising for them to treat her with more respect in life and in death. If they covered her and wrapped her properly, those are respectful actions.

BROWN: How she died remains a mystery. But the U.S. military says there is no evidence backing up the ISIS claim that she was killed in a Jordanian air strike.

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar says there were several foiled rescue attempts to save Mueller. In one attempt, a man claimed to be Mueller's husband from her hometown of Prescott, Arizona, and demanded her release at a Syrian terrorist camp, but was turned away after Mueller denied being anyone's wife.

REP. PAUL GOSAR, (R), ARIZONA: She said she wasn't married, and didn't lie to her captors that she was married, so that foiled that plan.

BROWN (on camera): And we learned from a family spokesperson that the man who posed as Kayla's husband at that terrorist training camp was her boyfriend who she was kidnapped with in the city of Aleppo. Apparently, he was leased after that and then risked his life to go back and try to rescue her.

Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And let's bring back Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill.

We did a lot of politics in the last segment. We're all on the same team on this one. We want American hostages returned safely. And this is a terrible situation that occurred with Kayla Mueller and the other hostages.

You know, there have been claims from the family members of these hostages that the administration took too long to pull the trigger and launch these rescue missions.

But, Ben, as you know, these are incredibly difficult decisions. A lot of work goes into planning these rescue missions. What do you make of what these hostages' families are saying, and what more could be done?

FERGUSON: There are a couple things we learned from this. One, seeing what ISIS is doing with these hostages, it's fair to say that we need to relook at how we deal with hostage situations, and do we have a serious team that can be the center point, you know, the situation room for hostage taking.

I also think a lot of the families and what they said was they were very frustrated with the limited knowledge they were given about what was going on. Imagine having a family member being held by a terrorist group for multiple years. You would hope that somebody would be in touch with them at a high level every moment of every day and they have a number to call no matter what's going on because they deserve that.

ACOSTA: Yeah.

FERGUSON: And so I think, if anything, it may be the issue of communication is where we need to learn. Obviously, this is not going away anytime soon, so we have to get a better way of dealing with it. ACOSTA: And, Ben and Marc, one thing we should point out, and we do

know this, the White House is in the middle of -- the administration is in the middle of a hostage policy review. And part of that is, to this thing you just mentioned, Ben, communications between the administration and families of these hostages and how that can be improved in the future.

But, Marc, let me ask you this. The parents of James Foley, the first U.S. hostage who was executed by ISIS, his parents sat down with CNN. I want to play you a bit of what they said because it does go to this notion that perhaps it just took too long.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE FOLEY, MOTHER OF JAMES FOLEY: It became apparent to us that our government knew where they were by December of 2013, even perhaps earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: So why didn't they try sooner?

FOLEY: Oh, I think there are multiple reasons. I certainly don't know all the reasons. I guess that's part of -- it appears to me that the American policy is failing, though.

JOHN FOLEY, FATHER OF JAMES FOLEY: I think rescue was delayed because the European nations, or the military intervention were delayed because European nations were negotiating and felt they could get their citizens home, and they didn't want any casualties in a military intervention prior to getting them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What are your thoughts on this, Marc?

LAMONT HILL: A few things, actually. Again, our hearts, my heart, in particular, goes out to all the families and loved ones of people who have died in this awful, awful tragedy.

I think communication is one thing. It's important to have consistent communication with the families of people who have been taken as hostages. I don't know if high-level people can do it every day. That might be asking a lot. But constant communication and constantly being a resource to these families is necessary. All Americans deserve that.

I think the second piece of this is what the father said, which is that the European approach, in some ways, undermines the American approach. They negotiate with terrorists. They've paid fees to get hostages back. What they've done, in essence, is create a market for hostage taking. People are less likely to take American lives because they know we don't buy them back. I don't want to necessarily get in that market. Also, ISIS is also not a square dealer. Even if you negotiate with ISIS, you still may not get what you want.

ACOSTA: Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson, thanks for your time. We appreciate it. I know you guys square off on politics, but on this one, we're all on the same page.

FERGUSON: Absolutely.

LAMONT HILL: Absolutely.

ACOSTA: Thanks very much for your thoughts on this. I do appreciate it. Coming up next, the latest on the deadly attack in Denmark when we

come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NARRATOR: On the roof of an abandoned brewery, Lil Buck performs his ballet, undulating his body like a human wave machine, scattering steps with staccato footwork. His home city of Memphis has already produced the rock-n-roll of Elvis and the blues of B.B. King. Now it has given birth to a street dance called Jerkin, which Lil Buck has transformed and taken around the world.

LIL BUCK, DANCER: It's like Michael Jackson times 10, a lot of slides and glides, a lot of toe spins. I think jerking is one of the greatest dance styles of all time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I picked Lil Buck as one of my ones to watch because he is a star. He is an innovator. He is magical. His movement is so original. People have been waving and being fluid forever, you know, but he's made it be something else.

LIL BUCK: The first time I actually saw Memphis Jerkin, I was in a skating rink in Memphis, 12 years old. When I walked in, I saw this guy gliding across the carpet like it was water. It was like nothing I'd ever seen before. I hadn't even seen Michael move that way. And that's what changed my whole world.

(SINGING)

LIL BUCK: It is a beautiful dance to me. That's what I really wanted people to achieve.

(SINGING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And the deadly -- excuse me -- the deadline finally came. Ukraine's president declared a cease-fire, in effect, at midnight local time, just under an hour ago. The Ukrainian military and pro Russian militants in eastern Ukraine were supposed to stop fighting then. Our correspondents say the guns are quiet for now.

The entire country of Denmark is on high alert after a deadly terrorist attack. Two heavily armed gunmen stormed a free-speech event in Copenhagen today firing as many as 30 or 40 shots. A 40- year-old man was killed, three police officers wounded. The possible target of the attack was cartoonist, Lars Bilks. He's faced death threats before for his portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad. The two suspects are still on the loose at this time.

And I'll be back at 7:00, about an hour from now.