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Families of Beheaded Egyptian Christians Speaking Out; Will New Methods of Federal Law Enforcement Lead to Spying on Young Muslim Men; During Cease-Fire Ukrainian Troops Pack Up, Retreat; Interview with Mars One Finalist
Aired February 18, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just past the bottom of the hour. This is CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
The families of those Christians, those Egyptian-Christians beheaded by ISIS speaking out, including a person who escaped. The victims traveled to Libya in search of better lives.
Ian Lee tells the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AZAF AZIZ (ph), GRIEVING MOTHER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A grieving mother of a son-turned martyr. 24-year-old Mina Aziz (ph) didn't have much. A strong back, but no education. With marriage on his mind, he left for Libya. He was a worker, carried sand and rocks.
AZIZ (ph): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
LEE: "He was a worker. He used to carry sand and rocks. What else could he do," asked his mother? "He didn't have a trade. He would have taken any job offered to him."
Families like Aziz's (ph) may be poor, but they are rich in faith. The small, close-knit village mourns 14 sons who were a group of 21 who lost their lives at the hands of ISIS in gruesome beheadings.
The streets, void of joy, filled with a painful procession of crying eyes.
Om Bashir (ph) lost two of her sons. They were about to return home to celebrate Christmas.
OM BASHIR (ph), GRIEVING MOTHER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
LEE: "They said, Ma, cook us all the holiday food," she tells me. "But the bastards kidnapped them. Like they deprived me of their sons, I hope God deprives them."
The attack sparked national outrage. Islam and Christianity in Egypt forming one hand.
Men in this village understand what it means to work in Libya.
(on camera): The thing about villages like this is people are poor. Work is scarce. Libya was seen as the only opportunity. Some say, once things calm down, they will risk their lives going back.
(voice-over): Hannan (ph) isn't returning. He's lucky to be alive, narrowly avoiding being kidnapped by ISIS. He's the last to see the sons alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
LEE: He tells me, there was a crack in the wall next to the A.C., masked men seized his cousins and nephew in the adjacent room. He heard ISIS militants say they had orders from the emir to arrest all Christians there. Hannan (ph) escaped into the desert with 15 others. Back home, he avoids his family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
LEE: "I feel guilty," Hannan (ph) tells me. "First of all, the situation was difficult, more than you can imagine. How can your nephew be taken from your hand? How can you face your brother or uncle? What would you tell them? Heroics would mean one more son wouldn't have returned home."
Despite the gruesome video, Hannan (ph) takes solace in what he saw.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
LEE: "To the last moment, the name of Jesus was on their lips," he tells me. "As they were being martyred, they were calling God's name, saying God have mercy on us. The entire village is proud.
Azaf (ph) doesn't hold a grudge against Hannan (ph). She knows her son is in a better place."
Ian Lee, CNN, Egypt.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Ian, thank you.
As ISIS fighters gain ground, one viewpoint on how to combat them is gaining traction. The military option cannot be the only way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIE HARF, DEPUTY SPOKESWOMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: We cannot win this war by killing them. We cannot kill our way out of the war. We need in the longer term -- medium and longer term, to go after the root causes that leads people to join the groups.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: That's what the summit at the White House, happening now, is about, finding ways to get terrorists before they become terrorists, to stop them in their tracks. In Minneapolis, four Somali Americans were arrested for trying to join ISIS.
An FBI official spoke of new methods there at today's summit. I want to play you the sound bite for you. But take not of how the agent emphasizes the word "separately." Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD THORNTON, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, MINNEAPOLIS DIVISION: The FBI, all of my law enforcement partners, are committed to disrupting the activity with a multi-pronged approach. This includes building strong community partnerships to prevent radicalization, and separately, through aggressive investigation of federal law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Why is that point -- why is "separately important" here? Because some Muslim leaders fear the new programs between the community and federal law enforcement will lead to improper surveillance. Some call it spying on young Muslims.
Let's with this with both sides. Omar Jamal, executive director of American Friends of Somalia; and Jaylani Hussein, executive director of Minnesota's Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CARE.
Gentlemen, so important to have both of you on. Welcome to both of you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Jaylani, first, I want to hear from you.
These are programs where law enforcement engages young Muslims, offer career schooling, job opportunities. But you don't like this. Tell me why.
JAYLANI HUSSEIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MINNESOTA COUNCIL ON AMERICAN- ISLAMIC RELATIONS: So I think one thing that's important to recognize is this type of model of engaging the community actually was tried in the U.K. It was called the Prevent Program where the government provided or the FBI provided funds to local community organizations. That became divisive.
So what we are saying here and the U.S. attorney in Minnesota, these programs are social service programs. What we want for the organizations that are really responsible for doing that to do that and to not have the federal prosecutor, who is also leading the investigations, to be the one doing that.
Our community will perceive any organization who gets funds from the federal prosecutor as actually part of the law enforcement. So what we are recommending -- and yesterday all the Muslim leaders in Minnesota were part of a press conference to say here is what we are thinking and what we are really recommending is for the community to be empowered to be really more robust in how they deal with the issue.
One of the interesting things is that, as I mentioned, recently, we don't -- and the U.S. attorney doesn't believe these programs will actually do something. They are just an attempt. We believe that we don't want to create more barriers in how law enforcement and the community work by dividing the community in this sense.
BALDWIN: I understand also fears of stigmatizing young Muslim youth.
I want examples on how you think you can empower communities.
But on the flip side, Omar, you say give these programs a chance. Tell me why you don't share the same views.
OMAR JAMAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN FRIENDS OF SOMALIA: Thanks, Brooke. The reason is because I have kids who have attended a program by the police department. It was very successful. The police department program should be a model for the country. First of all, this country is at war. We are in a war with. This is about a time that everybody should be together, including the Congress, and the only thing we have now is the element of fear. The U.S. attorney's office work and outreach has been appreciated, and the FBI should be continuing their job. It is about time that the community, the law enforcement agents, the imams all came together because we're all in this together. So what I'm saying is --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: When you say "fear," I'm curious, do you mean fear of the radicalization of young Muslim youth or fear of being stigmatized?
JAMAL: Well, fear of being stigmatized, fears of feeling distrust and alienation. But we reached a time where we cannot win this war. We have to come together. All of us. And people now fearmongering. My friend, Jaylani, by the time you start to trust people -- we have lost more than 40 young guys into al Shabaab and ISIS. What I'm saying is I think we came to the point where we have to come together and work together in order to defeat the terrorism.
BALDWIN: Jaylani, I want to give you chance to respond to Omar there, who is accusing you of fear mongering.
HUSSEIN: I think it's important to recognize what actually has taken place in Minnesota, and specifically how the law enforcement previous programs turned out to be about surveillance. There are two programs in Minnesota. One called Scott in 2009, another one (INAUDIBLE). These programs we found through documents. They blurred the lines between outreach and surveillance. There is a great deal of distrust between the agencies in our community.
What we have been doing since the early wave of young men leaving is the community has really responded aggressively, you know, from the imams and community organizations. This is an issue that the community has taken upon. What's we're recommending, and it's come out of these discussions, to create a task force, and it's under development, that talks about bringing people together, at least within the community and talk about what are really concrete things we can do together.
There is a lot of great work happening in our city to combat this in our community. Unfortunately, some of that's really not highlighted. We don't talk about that. There has been great success against al Shabaab. We don't talk about that. I have to say we haven't really seen recruiting lately because the community has stepped up.
It's also important to recognize that there is a great deal of distrust between law enforcement, especially the FBI. Who have --
(CROSSTALK)
JAMAL: But, Brooke --
(CROSSTALK)
HUSSEIN: -- informant tactics and surveillance --
(CROSSTALK)
HUSSEIN: And this fear, on top of it, this stigmatization that you mentioned earlier that this program puts upon our community. It is a stigmatism that we learned something about, at least, last week, what happened in North Carolina where -- the community, we don't want to create that type of stigma on the Muslim community.
BALDWIN: No, of course not.
HUSSEIN: I think --
(CROSSTALK)
JAMAL: Brooke, let me --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Hold on. Hold on.
JAMAL: Let me say this.
BALDWIN: OK. OK. I think Jaylani has finished his point. I just want to make sure I heard him out fully before.
Omar has the last word. Go ahead.
JAMAL: Let me say this, Brooke. There is communication in place that the local FBI office did not agree to the program Jaylani just mentioned. They did not --
(CROSSTALK)
HUSSEIN: And we welcome that. But we also have to have proof. (CROSSTALK)
JAMAL: Let me finish.
HUSSEIN: We have proof they were blurring the lines.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: One voice, gentlemen, please. One voice.
Omar, go ahead.
JAMAL: Let me finish, Brooke.
The point is that the local office came out and opposed the program. The point is that we are in a state of war. It's about a time we all come together and do something. We have to work with together to defeat the terrorism. Instead of my friend fearmongering and creating destruction among the community --
(CROSSTALK)
HUSSEIN: This is not fearmongering. I think these are legitimate concerns the community has.
JAMAL: I have to admit that --
(CROSSTALK)
HUSSEIN: We want to build --
(CROSSTALK)
HUSSEIN: -- not what happened in the U.K.
JAMAL: Can I finish? Can I finish?
BALDWIN: Please. Please do.
JAMAL: Can I finish, please?
BALDWIN: Please do.
JAMAL: Please.
In short, what I'm saying is, yes, there is room for a variety of ideas, how to tackle the issue. I'm not saying there is only one way to solve the problem. There are many different ideas. But instead of all that, it's about a time we all come together and work together. Otherwise, we have with young kids to this war. We have lost 19, 18- years kids who have been going to university and college to al Shabaab and ISIS. It's not about them or us. It's about our lives. It's about the future of my children. So it's not about the time we have to distort the issue and create all these --
(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. And I'm sure Jaylani would agree in terms of coming together, in terms of one community, in terms of fighting this. But I hear the disagreement just in two prominent voices, which makes me wonder if this is a microcosm of the greater situation. This needs work.
Omar and Jaylani --
(CROSSTALK)
HUSSEIN: I think, Brooke, we don't want --
(CROSSTALK)
JAMAL: Thank you. Thank you.
HUSSEIN: We don't want to put barriers in this relationship. .
BALDWIN: No.
I really appreciate both of you.
HUSSEIN: Thank you.
BALDWIN: My goodness.
Coming up next, the cease-fire in Ukraine now seems like it never happened as Ukrainian forces pack up equipment and retreat from a highly contested city. This is a huge development as both sides brace for what's to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: There are new and troubling developments here in Ukraine.
Government troops have pulled out of this key town. This is Debaltseve. This is a vital railroad hub, the focus of fighting for weeks and weeks.
Now, the government said it's part of a planned move, looking like a retreat, as pro-Russian rebels swoop in. As they move in, you can see them helping themselves to artillery from the area near Donetsk.
Nick Paton Walsh has been there. He's watching all of this.
Nick, what is it? Was this preplanned? If it was preplanned, what's the bigger picture here? What's happening?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, has tried to make the best of the awful situation for his military by saying it held on deliberately to show how Russia had no respect for the peace accords signed over the weekend. The violence has continued, regardless of the supposed truce.
The separatists encircled it. The Ukrainians had hundreds if not thousands of troops and many civilians inside it. But it was clear they were losing ground fast yesterday in the face of a well-equipped separatist onslaught. A lot of heavy shelling by both sides around that town despite the cease-fire.
We saw ourselves today, frankly, how the retreat was far from orderly. We saw a checkpoint where they were left behind, where the army personnel, carriers were blown up with people inside. We saw huge stacks of artillery rounds abandoned as Ukrainian military fled, and even key missiles left behind to a very patchy withdrawal.
A lot of land lost fast by the Ukrainian military. We don't know a key figure, and that's how many people died in the swift withdrawal. It looks like Ukraine had little choice. The separatists were never going to allow them to retain the area. And they have the full backing, says NATO and Ukraine, of the Russian military. But this could be one of the bloodiest episodes, frankly, of this Ukrainian conflict so far. We don't know quite the death toll of the city being encircled now in almost two weeks. But an extraordinarily worry fact, this is occurring on the fourth day of a supposed cease-fire. Supposed, I say -- Brooke?
BALDWIN: Supposed.
Thank you very much, Nick Paton Walsh, with what we have been watching, which has not come to pass in the wake of this Minsk agreement.
Thank you very much, in Ukraine.
And still ahead on CNN, what kind of person signs up for a one-way ticket to Mars? Well, you're about to meet one. My next guest is among the 100 final candidate of like 200,000-plus volunteering to leave earth permanently.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: OK. Legit question here. If you could, would you be interested in going to Mars and never coming back? Leave the wife, the hubs, the home, the kids, rocky road ice cream, Netflix? That's it. You're gone. If so, you would be one of 24 selected out of some 200,000-plus people who all want to go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That's part of the promotional video for the project called Mars One. It will send a group of volunteers to live on Mars. Talk about history.
Joining me, a man who would like to take part in history. He is Peter Felgentreff, one of the finalists out of 200,000-plus.
Peter, congratulations. (CROSSTALK)
PETER FELGENTREFF, MARS ONE FINALIST, Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: I have so many questions. Let's begin with the obvious. Why do you want to do it?
FELGENTREFF: It's a thrilling experience and this is a really important science project. This is basically a thrilling moment in time. It is the first solid move to the colonization of Mars.
BALDWIN: Let's play it out. Say you are accepted. You go up to Mars.
FELGENTREFF: There is ennoble stuff. You don't know what uh you will encounter. Basically it will be science, exploration. All the things you would imagine. Anything from geology to figuring out various biochemical or chemical mechanisms there or how human behavior takes place in confined environments and hostile areas.
BALDWIN: I was reading why certain candidates would be chosen. I read it's less about that and more about the enthusiasm for living on Mars. Why do you think you should go?
FELGENTREFF: I think the reason why I should go is that's a unique opportunity to make grounds for man kind on another planet. In terms of skill set, I'm an average guy. It comes down to being compatible in different situations. I feel comfortable in things that make some people uncomfortable. Most importantly, I'm focused, just like anybody else who is part of the 100 on the success of the mission.
BALDWIN: Peter, you are an average guy who is married. Let's talk about your wife, if I may. Would your wife like to live forever on Mars with you or did she say thanks but no thanks.
FELGENTREFF: I'm probably not going to live forever. But as far as living on Mars, she would like to stay terrestrial are. There is only a matter of distance. Just a short seven-minute window for a time signal or a signal to come across and we are basically connected. There is a lack of physical presence but the answer is, though, she doesn't want to go to Mars.
BALDWIN: Distance makes the heart grow fonder, but you don't get to come back. How do you say, in 2024, "Honey, I love you, good-bye"?
FELGENTREFF: We with live in a socialized world nowadays. Affection by Twitter and Facebook. I tend to be the opposite. I'm directly connected to my wife. I love her dearly. We are living every day to the fullest. I think that's really important. Between the two of us, it's something we have embraced. You live for the day. You don't live for tomorrow.
BALDWIN: Listen, we all should be ascribing to that. I'm going on a bucket list trip myself next week. I can kind of relate, but I'm coming back.
(LAUGHTER)
My final question, in the next 10 years, if you are chosen and go far away, what items would be on the bucket list? What do you need to check off before you go to Mars?
FELGENTREFF: I think things I would like to check off is making sure I continue on the path I'm going down. I enjoy life. I'm an avid skateboarder. I love riding my mountain bike. And --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Come on. Give me the one thing you haven't done you're going to do.
FELGENTREFF: The one thing I'm going to do? I have no clue at this point. I'm a very happy person. I'm a simple guy. I -- every day is an adventure for me, every day.
BALDWIN: All right, get back to me on that. I'm going to need you to think about that. And when you're chosen, I want you to come back and we will have a chat.
Peter Felgentreff, thank you so much. And best of luck to you.
FELGENTREFF: Absolutely. Thank you, Brooke.
