Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

ISIS Pushed Back in Iraq; Jeb Bush on Foreign Policy; Road Rage Case

Aired February 18, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, top of the hour here. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We could be about to see this dramatic shift in the U.S.-led war on ISIS. And let me tell you why. Syrian rebels could soon begin calling the shots, the Syrian rebels there on the ground. The United States is planning to give some moderate rebels the ability to call in U.S. airstrikes. How will that happen? They will be given these GPS devices to be able to use from the ground.

This is not exactly expected to sit well with some lawmakers, some members of Congress who, as you can recall, were against arming the rebels in the first place in the Syrian civil war. Concern that not enough information, quite frankly, is known as about the background of the rebel fighters.

But now with ISIS extending its reach, as you can see here, way beyond Syria and Iraq, the stakes just got a whole lot higher. And it happens the U.S. needs help in Syria. The U.S. military is already doing it with Kurdish fighters in Iraq. That does appear to be working just the day an ISIS' advance came to a screeching halt near the northern city of Irbil after hours of deadly fighting.

Kurdish fighters fought back those militants, calling in U.S. airstrikes to finish the job.

Ben Wedeman is there? Let me know.

For months, we have been seeing the U.S.-backed Peshmerga fighters pushing back the terrorists in the battlefields of Iraq. These fighters are the U.S.' eyes and ears on the ground. But in Syria, by comparison, the United States has been practically fighting blind.

Now we are learning the U.S. is planning to introduce a new Syrian force to the battleground.

Let me bring in David Lesch to talk about this movie to give the Syrian rebels the ability to identity targets for airstrikes. He's a professor at Middle East history at Trinity University in San Antonio and he's also the author of "Syria: The Fall of the House of Assad."

So, David, welcome back.

DAVID LESCH, AUTHOR, "SYRIA: THE FALL OF THE HOUSE OF ASSAD": My pleasure, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It's always pertinent just to remind our viewers you regularly met with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad before 2009. You have just returned from the region visiting both Jordan and Lebanon. Let me begin with the fact you met with some of the commanders of the Syrian opposition.

And there is a difference in motive here. While the U.S. is clearly focused on destroying and dismantling ISIS, those Syrian rebels, they are priority one is ousting Assad. Correct?

LESCH: That's correct. Nothing from what I understand the material that we are -- this tranche of material that we're about to give, none of it is a game-changer on the ground in terms of the disposition of the war.

So the Syrian opposition is still likely to be very unhappy with the level of support they are receiving and particularly, as you said, because they want to aim guns or weapons or anything they have against Assad and not against ISIS. From the U.S. perspective, obviously we are trying to improve our real-time intelligence on the ground because we don't have that many assets on the ground in Syria, particularly if we are targeting the leadership.

The question of course is the reliability of this information. I'm sure the intelligence community has many levels of vetting in order to make sure that the information we are getting and the people who are giving the information are in fact reliable. But it will done in combination with other intelligence sources. I doubt we are going to rely totally, at least in the beginning, on any sort of targeting information from any of these new sources.

BALDWIN: But on that reliability note, the news of the day here that the U.S. could be handing some of these moderate rebels these GPS devices to call in the shot, to call in the U.S. airstrikes, do you think it's a solid idea?

LESCH: It can be a helpful idea again in combination with other intelligence sources, satellite imagery, intelligence sources via the Kurds.

BALDWIN: OK.

LESCH: I don't think even if it falls into ISIS' hands, this is not going to be counterproductive to U.S. efforts. We're not giving terribly sophisticated information. This is the type of thing we have done before in Afghanistan and Iraq, trying to increase our eyes and ears on ground, again particularly if we're targeting ISIS leadership, which has become a priority for the U.S. right now.

BALDWIN: All right. You bring up not as much concern falling into the wrong hands. But we have definitely seen U.S. weaponry end up in the hands of ISIS. We have seen the weapons caches in Libya in the post-Gadhafi area and now we have these militants on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea decapitating Christians. My question to you would be, could weapons lent to moderate Syrian rebels land in the wrong hands?

LESCH: Of course they can. It's almost likely to, which is why we have drawn back from supporting the so-called moderate rebels, which is a misnomer right now, in my estimation.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

(CROSSTALK)

LESCH: Well, in the sense that they're moderate in terms of wanting to put in place a pro-Western, democratic, secular regime like we want to put in place in Syria at the beginning.

This is very much a conservative Sunni Islamist opposition. And that -- particularly the armed militants are committed to overthrowing Assad, not so much moving against ISIS. There are different agendas and different motivations with regard to what we want to happen in Syria and what the rebels or the opposition groups want to see in Syria.

BALDWIN: Right. On the notion of overthrowing Assad, let's look at this big picture. This is something I have really thinking about in how we're covering all of this. You look back at Iraq and you look at the fall of Saddam Hussein, you see the state of Iraq today. You look at Libya, you look at the state of Libya today in a post-Moammar Gadhafi area.

You think of Bashar Assad in Syria and you have these power vacuums, David, that were created, at least in those first two countries, with those dictators gone, where ISIS has clearly infiltrated this geography. With Syria, you know Bashar al-Assad, but what is the better situation? Assad in power, thus ISIS not taking all of Syria altogether, or Assad out?

LESCH: Well, if you want a short-term solution to this in terms of a political settlement, particularly because it's clear Assad isn't going anywhere any time soon, that's a legitimate consideration.

And this is what the U.N. envoy, Staffan de Mistura, meant when he said last week that Assad has to be part of the solution. No one likes that. I don't like it. But it's the reality of the situation, I think, moving forward that he has to be considered part of a solution during some sort of transition or afterward.

And with or without him, the crux are of the matter, from my perspective, ever since the beginning of this crisis once it became clear Assad was going to stay in power, is can the central government, can Assad give up enough power, the devolution of power the center to the periphery that will satisfy at least a critical mass of the opposition?

Not everyone will go along with this. But it is a negotiable situation. They are far apart in terms of the gap of what they consider to be the future of Syria and how much power a central government will have. But if you're thinking of a political settlement, and most believe there is about a six-month window or so before the U.S. election really kicks into gear and the U.S. and the Obama administration's attentions go elsewhere -- if you really want to begin a process for a serious political settlement over this period of time, you have to think of dealing in some way, shape or form with President al-Assad, however distasteful it may be.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: David Lesch, thank you so much and always enjoy having you on. Please come back. Appreciate it.

ISIS will no doubt be a priority topic here in the race for president come 2016. Moments ago, Jeb Bush laying out his plan for ISIS and distancing himself from his brother and his father. Hear what he said.

Plus, a new twist in the road rage case involving a mother who was shot and killed. There is now word she and her kids went, left the home looking for the driver who police still cannot find.

And Iran's supreme leader blasting the movie "American Sniper" saying it offends Muslims. And he didn't stop there. We have to discuss it coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Jeb Bush, Jeb Bush wants to shake off the long shadow cast by his older brother and father as he gears up for a possible White House bid. Jeb Bush proclaimed today -- quote -- "I am my own man" in his crucial speech today on foreign policy. He accused the Obama camp of mishandling the threat from Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Iran's intent is clear. Its leaders have openly expressed a call for the annihilation of the state of Israel. We could face large-scale proliferation issues throughout the region if Iran has the ability to launch a nuclear weapon.

Congress should pass bills to reinstate sanctions in advance if negotiations fail and require approval should one be reached. I want to take a moment to talk about the controversy surrounding Bibi Netanyahu's joint session speech to Congress that is coming up in the first week of March.

I for one am really eager to hear what he has to say. Israel isn't at the negotiation table with Iran, but it has a lot at stake. I don't blame him for wanting to share his views.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk to our chief Washington correspondent, host of "THE LEAD," Mr. Jake Tapper. And, Jake, obviously, I want to get to, was he successful in

distancing himself from the rest of the Bushes, but first just foreign policy wise, how did he do?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I thought it was fine.

I showed himself to be conversant in a lot of these major issues, which is not a surprise. Jeb Bush is a smart guy. And even if he weren't considering a run for president, he would probably be almost as conversant in these issues, so that wasn't really much of a surprise. He doesn't really have much of an intellectual bar to clear. People already regard him as something a policy wonk. None of that really was a shock at all.

BALDWIN: OK. To the Bush last name here. I know it was a couple of years ago, it was 2010, Jeb Bush was aligning himself very closely with his brother's presidential track record. Here he was on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I will tell you that I'm the only Republican that was in office when he was in office as president that never disagreed with him. And I'm not going to start now. Why would I do that now after two years?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wait, not one time did you call up and say, you know what, don't do that?

BUSH: I'm not going to start now. It's just until death do us part.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: My, what a difference five years, maybe even six years will make. How does he distance himself from his other presidential family members?

TAPPER: You can't just come out and say I am my own man and then all of a sudden the story goes away.

He obviously -- his brother's shadow more than his father looms large when it comes to foreign policy decisions that the American people disagree with. He did come out today and I think he even raised the subject of mistakes that were made in Iraq in terms of there not being enough security provided on the ground for the Iraqi people in the aftermath of the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

He obviously criticized the intelligence as faulty. I do think that the bigger question of would he have made the same decision to invade is one that the American people will want to hear, not just because George W. Bush is his brother, but also because I think this is a -- that decision is a very important one and significant one and one that the American people, according to polls, in retrospect, wish had not happened.

I think pointing out those mistakes is fine and distances himself a little bit. But there is still more to come on a lot of these decisions.

BALDWIN: OK. We will see how you chew on this and of course the big White House summit. President Obama speaking during your hour. We will tuned in at 4:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. Jake Tapper, thank you very much.

TAPPER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's continue on the politics roll here and let me bring in CNN political director David Chalian.

David, first question to you just on this whole listening to Jeb Bush today. I'm just curious for you. Only a year-and-a-half out of the election and he already oh -- and Ana Navarro, poof, like magic, there you are as well.

Let me actually begin with you. Forgive me, David.

Ana, just because you are, full transparency, you are close to Jeb Bush. It's only a year-and-a-half out of the election. He already has to, you know, distance himself from other members of his family, especially the shadow of he is brother who looms large. How exactly does he do that?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, Brooke, this is something Jeb has been dealing with his entire life.

I think he's very comfortable in his own skin and being Jeb Bush. I think he will be who he is. Just let Jeb be Jeb. He will lay out his own ideas. He is going to lay out his own policy. He is going to think about things. He thinks about things differently and deliberates, has a different deliberating process.

I don't think you are ever going to see him break away. You know, if what people want is for him to go on a stage and deny his brother and his father, that's not going to happen.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: But he's going to lay out his own policy. Where there are mistakes, he will acknowledge them. Where there weren't, he will say that to.

BALDWIN: To Jake's point, Americans will want to know how he would have felt had he been in the hot seat. Would he have gone in with the Iraqi invasion? Do you have any idea how he'd answer that question?

NAVARRO: I don't. I don't. I think it's a hypothetical that would be very difficult for anybody to answer regardless of what your last name is, because really there is no comparison to actually being in the hot seat during a thing like 9/11. It's a very hypothetical question.

BALDWIN: OK.

David Chalian, been looking forward to talking to you. Let me ask you about the polls here, because at the tip top of the poll, you have Mike Huckabee. This is the latest CNN/ORC poll for 2016 for the Republican presidential nominee. Mike Huckabee with the 16 percent here. In December, Bush led with 23 percent. Huckabee had 6 percent. It wasn't long ago -- just looking at some of the other numbers here, it wasn't long ago, David, when Huckabee was in, Governor Huckabee was in the single digits. What happened?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No. Well, that's true, Brooke.

I think a couple of things happened. One, Jeb Bush jolted the race to life in December when he announced he was really going to give this serious thought and is likely to make a run. Nobody else has sort of jumped into the pool. He was sort of way out in front in December.

I think what you are seeing here now, you're seeing four guys bunched up in double digits at the top, Governor Huckabee, Governor Bush, Governor Walker and Senator Rand Paul. I think what you are seeing with Huckabee, Brooke, is since that time, he announced on FOX that he was leaving his FOX show. He launched a book tour. Very popular in conservative media outlets.

And so he sort of dominated a bunch of headlines with the right audience and we see his numbers jump up. I think we will see lots of different folks in the top slot as the year goes forward.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about potential other folks, Ana, with you.

Other than the three governors and the senator that David just mentioned, what other names are you watching for?

NAVARRO: Oh, my goodness. Brooke, the list is so long.

I think you could field a football team with the with the list of names that are being mentioned.

Obviously, I'm waiting for Marco Rubio, my state senator, number one, because I want to know if he will run for reelection or not and also because's from Florida. He has an overlapping circle of donors and supporters with Jeb Bush.

But there's also so very many, Ted Cruz, Senator Lindsey Graham, Carly Fiorina, you name it, people, Ben Carson, folks that you may have never heard of and folks you have heard about a lot.

BALDWIN: OK.

David, before I let you go, I do want to talk about the Dems because I was just reading this morning about this meeting between a potential presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton getting together with Democratic darling Elizabeth Warren. I realized that this meeting actually happened in December, though we are now all learning about this. What do you think was said? What was the reason for the get-together?

CHALIAN: I think this is Hillary Clinton taking care of her politics in a really smart fashion. There has been no indication that Elizabeth Warren is sort of open to the draft movement that is out there. But Elizabeth Warren wants to be a player. Hillary Clinton see the juice that Elizabeth Warren inside the Democratic Party and wants to make sure to bring that into her fold as she prepares for a likely run.

She brings her in, meets with her. No doubt they talked about income inequality, and Wall Street banks and the stuff that Elizabeth Warren is known for that makes her the darling of the liberal left of the Democratic Party. By bringing her into the fold and seeking out her advice, Hillary Clinton is indicating to Warren supporters, those that would really like to see her in, that she's open to incorporating Elizabeth Warren's ideas into her potential candidacy.

BALDWIN: Hillary wants the juice is what I'm hearing you say, David Chalian. Thank you very much. Ana Navarro, great to have you on as well. Appreciate both of you.

Coming up next here, did the victim seek out her attacker? Dramatic new details today in this road rage case that left this mother of four dead. We will talk to Nancy Grace. She will react to the new twist today.

Also ahead, while the "American Sniper" trial plays out in this Texas courtroom, the film version of Chris Kyle's story, it is still captivating audiences. But did you know Iran's supreme leader is weighing in, offering his own strong-worded critique of the movie? We will share that with you.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There has now been a dramatic twist today in the deadly road rage case that is raising all kinds of questions.

Police say the suspected gunman they are now pursuing was at one point pursued by the woman he allegedly killed. This all goes back to Thursday. It happened in Las Vegas. This is Tammy Meyers. She was the mother. She was giving her 15-year-old daughter a driving lesson. She had an encounter with a male driver that left her frightened.

When Meyers got home, she then picked up her son who had a gun and went back out looking for this driver. When this mother returned home for a second time, gunfire erupted in her driveway. A bullet hit her. She ultimately was taken off life support on Valentine's Day.

Joining me now, HLN's Nancy Grace, who I know has had a very strong stance on this.

Nancy Grace, but with this twist that we now know mom left the home with the son with the gun to go back and find the guy, does that change your opinion?

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": No, it doesn't.

BALDWIN: Why?

GRACE: I will tell you this, though. It is a wrinkle in the case.

It is a concern if this case ever goes to trial, because this is what I know. Police have stated -- this is their quote, not mine -- that we, the police, don't think the mom and son went looking for trouble. This is the way I interpret what the police said.

Mom's out teaching her daughter to drive and to parallel park. Some guy comes speeding past them and the little girl reaches over, toot, toot, on the horn because she thought he was speeding. Well, the guy stops, slams on the brakes, gets out of the car, comes to mommy's window and chews her out.

Mommy gets scared. They race home. All right. She gets the girl out of the car, gets the son and goes, you know what, I'm going to find this guy. He shouldn't have done that. I'm going to get his tag. How many times have you said, I'm going to get their tag number? I do it practically every other day.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Remind me not to drive around you.

GRACE: You know what, you see somebody in a handicapped spot when they shouldn't be or somebody driving erratically. You go, they are a danger.

BALDWIN: Sure. Sure.

GRACE: Mom goes looking for him. Well, guess what? She finds him. She's scared all over again. They turn around, they race back home. The guy who was in their neighborhood, my question is why is he in their neighborhood, does follow them home. He starts shooting first. The police say, all indications are the perpetrator fired first.

The son Brandon fires back. And mommy is hit in the head by the perpetrator's bullet.

BALDWIN: Right. Right.

GRACE: The fact that mommy is scared and angry and goes looking for him, finds him, gets scared all over again and races back home to me really doesn't change the fact scenario, that that guy, the perpetrator, is the aggressor.