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Mythical Creature Driving 12-Year-Old Girls to Kill; Time Capsule Opened in Baltimore

Aired February 18, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: But what about the fact that mom could be perceived as an aggressor if she went out with her son with a gun to go find this guy? Would that not change potentially charges if and when they find this driver?

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Can I ask you, do you think that it's a crime to get in your car, even though you have a gun, and I'm not crazy about the gun laws, but you have got a gun in the car, and you go look for somebody and you find him?

So far, that's not a crime. But it may -- you're right -- it may change the perception of a jury. But the fact that this guy follows them back home and starts shooting? That's the game-changer, right there, in my mind. But you're right. Some jurors may have a problem with that.

BALDWIN: They will be thinking, why didn't she just stay home? Stay home. Closed the door. Lock the door.

GRACE: You know what? Why didn't she go in and hide under the bed and pull the curtains and lock the doors? Because she didn't have to. She wanted to find this guy, probably wanted to get his tag number.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GRACE: And sadly she got what she wished for. She found him and she ended up dead.

GRACE: She has every right to have been furious and horrible what happened with the family. Nancy Grace, thank you. Thank you very much.

GRACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We watch Nancy on HLN at 8:00 on eastern , on HLN. Thank you, ma'am, very much.

GRACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: A new controversy surrounding the movie, "American sniper." Now, by some it's being called anti-Muslim. And there is concern it could provoke violence. We'll have the discussion.

And a mythical creature driving 12-year-old girls to try to kill. The evidence in the Slenderman case is being presented and let me tell you, it is chilling. What investigators found in one of the little girls' bedrooms ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. I've got a woman and a kid 20 yards out, moving toward the convoy. Her arms aren't swinging. She 's carrying something. She's got a grenade. She got RKG grenade. Just handed it to the kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Bradley Cooper there in American sniper. And if you have not seen the movie yet, the scene we showed you is a popular scene in the trailer, featured in award shows. But is it anti-Islamic? We have shared two points of view with you. First, coming from Iran's highest Shiite Muslim, the ayatollah, saying screens like that quote "encourage Christian or non-Muslim youngsters to harass Muslims as much as possible.

Here is a little context. Just in the course of the past seven days. We have seen three instances of possible hate crimes against Muslim. First, this past Saturday a Muslim school in Rhode Island was vandalized with this graffiti. Second, Friday, a mass confusion it was lit on fire. The 55-year-old neighbor was charged with arson and then of course, a week ago today, those three young Muslim, U.N. cease students were killed each in their head at their apartment. All of the cases are still under investigation.

Suzanne Barakat, the sister of one of those students in Carolina told CNN for Muslims in America, her words, this is open season.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUZANNE BARAKAT, VICTIM'S SISTER: And it's currently an open season, a time where it's open season against Islam. Muslims in Washington, in the media dehumanizing Muslims in movies like "American sniper."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now is Arsalan Iftikhar, a senior editor at the Islamic Monthly. Great to the view have you back.

Arsalan, great to have you back.

ARSALAN IFTIKHAR, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ISLAMIC MONTHLY: Thanks for having me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So the point of view from the Barakat sister and the point of view from the Ayatollah. I mean, are those viewpoints, Arsalan, have merit ?

IFTIKHAR: Yes. I mean, I think if you look at it, holistically, Brooke, you know, not just "American Sniper" with Bradley Cooper, but if you look at Hollywood's overall depiction of Muslims and Arab after 9/11 whether it's the show "Homeland" on Show Time with Claire Daine (ph) or to the FOX show "24" with Kiefer Sutherland. You know, we have scenes this ongoing narrative at of the, you know, there is a bad brown people next door. And you know, we are starting to see that resonate now in terms of hate crimes around America. And public opinion poll showing that American-Muslims are one of the most hated demographic groups in the United States today. Islamaphobia is real and growing in America today.

BALDWIN: You know, I'm haunted by Suzanne Barakat's words saying it's open season. Why -- I know I would have to go to the source to get her answer. But in a broader sense why is it open season? Is it open season because of what's happening in Iraq and Syria ? And how that is being filtered back here or has it been , quote/unquote, open season for a long, long time?

IFTIKHAR: You know, that is a very good question Brooke. I mean, as you pointed out in the last seven days, we had, you know, the brutal execution of three Muslim college students at UNC Chapel Hill. We had mass cars in Houston. We had the Islamic school of Rhode Island in Providence which had graffiti that says things like, you know, Mohamed is a pedophile, F Allah, and now this is a hate crime.

So you know when people are taking pride in the fact that they are committing a hate crime. That there is really something wrong and a new discussion we have to have in America because that means that this is feeding the propaganda recruitment tools of groups like ISIS.

BALDWIN: There has been, just speaking of President Obama, I mean, there's been criticism toward the administration that they have been, you know, excluding the term Islamic when talking about radicalization. He published a column this morning in the "L.A. Times" and specifically mentioned attacks on the U.S. that were committed by Muslims. Your reaction to his phraseology and how do you think the White House should approach it?

IFTIKHAR: I think the White House is approaching it in a good way. You know, when you call something Islamic extremism you are actually giving it the religious legitimacy that they desire. And you know, 1.7 billion Muslims around the world, you know, absolutely condemned ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram and all of these terrorist organizations and were not going to honor them with any sort of religious monochare. These are the religious criminals committing acts of murder.

And you know, just like the Lord's resistance army in Africa which is the Christianist organization or the Ku Klux Klan is, you know, is not representative of Christians worldwide. So, too, must we make these distinctions in order to move the conversation forward in a positive direction.

BALDWIN: Arsalan Iftikhar, thank you so much again for coming on. I really appreciate your perspective.

And just to remind our viewers, tonight CNN is going inside the controversy behind this movie. It's called "blockbuster: the story of American sniper," do not miss it, 9:00 p.m. eastern and Pacific here on CNN. Ahead, two girls, they say they were driven to stab a classmate over

and over because of this mythical creature known as Slenderman. They believed it would kill their families if they didn't do it. Now, investigators are revealing disturbing drawings and a chilling to-do list the girls had. We we'll take you through the evidence coming up.

Also ahead, Baltimore looks at what life was like way back in 1815. Time capsule has just been opened. We will show you what's inside next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, history buffs will love this one, 200 years of very history here in Baltimore. Contractors dug up a time capsule believed to be from way back in 1815, kind of debate to the first monument dedicated to President George Washington.

Let me bring historian and chairman of the restoration committee at Mount Vernon Place Conservancy, Lance Humphries.

This must be like a total jackpot for you. How stoked are you, Lance?

LANCE HUMPHRIES, HISTORIAN/CHAIRMAN, RESTORATION COMMITTEE AT MOUNT VERNON PLACE CONSERVANCY: Well, it was very long night last night as the contractors revealed this time capsule. It is really the corner stone from the building from 1815. And it was exciting because while we all know what happened 200 years ago, no one knew where this was. And so, about six days ago we actually thought we spotted it as we were digging a sewage tank pit for the Mundane chorus (ph) on the sight and there we found this corner stone from (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Thank goodness for digging for sewage tank ditches because you found this. And I don't want to get you in trouble, but can you handle those contents of precious contents and tell me what you found?

HUMPHRIES: Well, I can't actually handle the contents. But I can show you what we found. So there is a two-foot square stone corner stone in which the original masons carved out a well. In the well we knew there were coins and memorabilia from the origin that will accounts. We had no idea how they were packed. And what we found when we took off the lid which I should show you because it's neat itself, that these two very large bottles. And then a smaller bottle over here. And what is absolutely awesome is that like this is the fourth of July 1815. And that these newspapers are actually dated July 1, 1813.

BALDWIN: What?

HUMPHRIES: July 3rd, 1815. I'm sorry. It's all 1815. So these are newspapers that they literally bought two days before this corner stone ceremony and then wrapped up in the bottles.

BALDWIN: Hold on a second. Can you bend down -- what was the headline back in 1815?

HUMPHRIES: Well, it's rather hard to read them. BALDWIN: I realize they're kind of old.

HUMPHRIES: This one says -- this is actually quoting July 3rd. So they are getting ready for the Fourth of July. There's just declaration of independence. So they are actually kind of recounting the declaration of independence. They are talking about things.

Over here we can just really just see the mast heads of the paper. There is now strictly register the American Commercial Daily Advertiser and then the dates of the paper but not the stories so much. So that will be another day when we slowly extract these newspapers, if we can with.

BALDWIN: That's phenomenal. I'm ant the fall off my chair trying to squint and read some of the headlines with you. Final question, I mean, once you -- have you figured out what you will do with the contents, where they will go for history buffs to come check out in person?

HUMPHRIES: Well, the nest step in the process is that actually conservators from the Walters art museum, the Walters is right next door to is here next to the Washington monument. They were here today to help us kind of give an initial, you know, kind of just understanding of what we've got. They are going to be working with us the next coup of days to really understand what is the safest way to hopefully extract these bottles from this time capsule and then see what the best process is for long-term preservation.

So it is going to be a slow process. They have been (INAUDIBLE) for 200 years, never seen. And so, we'll just have to do it carefully and slowly.

BALDWIN: Carefully and slowly.

HUMPHRIES: I have to tell that --

BALDWIN: Yes.

HUMPHRIES: Yes. I have to say in this bottle, we are hoping the account says there was a likeness of George Washington the in a bottle when they did this. And we are hoping that that is likely this sort of bottle here that was sealed up very carefully.

BALDWIN: OK.

HUMPHRIES: That would be super neat.

BALDWIN: That would be super, super cool.

Lance Humphries, thank you so much for geeking out on a little history for us at the Washington monument in Baltimore. Lance Humphries, the historian and chairman of the restoration committee at Mt. Vernon place conservancy. Congratulations! Thank you very much.

HUMPHRIES: Thank you. BALDWIN: Coming up next, the evidence is just absolutely chilling.

You have these two girls who say a mythical creature known as Slenderman drove them to stab their class mate. We will show you what investigators are now revealing about the case, what they found.

Plus, we are just a short time away from the president's highly anticipated speech on counter terror summit that will be happening at the White House next hour. Our special coverage is straight ahead.

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BALDWIN: They are being accused of an adult crime and the evidence just presented in their case shows how young they are and how seriously the crime they allegedly committed really is.

Let me show you something. You will see a Barbie here, the Barbie doll from one of the two 12 year old girls now accused of luring their friend into the woods last May and stabbing her 19 times. The attack, according to investigators, was to impress a fictional boogeyman called Slenderman. Our Wisconsin affiliate reports defense attorneys are showing images of these mutilated dolls and all kinds of disturbing sketches here just to show how the girls were really and truly just lost as far as reality is concerned. One told police Slenderman was real and that she was afraid of him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, because he could be anywhere from six feet to 14 feet tall. He's, like I said, a tall guy who constantly wears a suit with a red tie. He doesn't have a face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The judge will decide next month if the case should proceed to trial or go to the juvenile system. We will talk more with psychiatrist Dr. Charles Sophy and trial attorney Eric Guster. Welcome to both of you.

DR. CHARLES SOPHY, PSYCHIATRIST: Thank you.

ERIC GUSTER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Eric, just on the notion of adult versus juvenile, did you think there are grounds here to have this thing proceed through the adult system or no?

GUSTER: There might be grounds. But this is a case, Brooke, where these girls have serious issues. When you have mutilated Barbies and all these notes and the psychologist who testified that these girls actually believed that Slenderman was real and told them to do this. That goes straight to a mental disease or defect defense. And when they are listening to voices and the psychologist feels they are listening to voices, you know for sure there are issues right here.

BALDWIN: Doctor Sophy, here's really my question because listen, you know, a lot of young people I'm sure have distorted views of reality and have writings and drawings and maybe some kids pull Barbie dolls apart, right? But what is it in a child that takes them from the thoughts to actually carrying something like this out?

SOPHY: Well, as you say, these are really premeditated behaviors. These are really disturbing things. And if children are really hearing voices and they are doing the things that these behaviors that we're learning about may signify, then they are mentally ill. But I'm not so sure all of these behaviors are rooted in mental illness, or some of them are just fantasy or un-parented kids without good supervision. There's a lot of premeditation here.

BALDWIN: I was just wondering about the roles of the parents here, right? One would wonder were the parents looking at the journals, did the parents pick up the phone and call someone when they saw these Barbie dolls being mutilated.

SOPHY: Absolutely.

GUSTER: Sometimes parents -- sometimes parents don't know what their children are doing. So these parents may not have been aware of the journals or not read their journals and may not have seen these Barbies because that would alarm any parent in any situation to get help for their child.

BALDWIN: No, true. Absolutely true. Go ahead, doctor.

SOPHY: Why doesn't a parent know what their child is doing? This isn't one note. This is a journal. This is an ongoing behavior pattern that a child is engaging in. Why would they not know? So, you know, it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of mental illness here. It looks like there's a lot of issues with children and parenting and kids who are on their own too much.

BALDWIN: In terms of the legal system, Eric, let me go back to that. You know, if this goes through the juvenile system would the charge remain the same, the charge being first degree attempted homicide?

GUSTER: The charge could remain the same. However, in the juvenile system, a child could only be in custody in that system up to the age of 25. So the juvenile system is designed specifically to rehabilitate anyone who goes into the system, whether it's theft, whether it is assault, attempted murder or anything like that. So the juvenile system will have to really clamp down and make sure the children get the help they need.

BALDWIN: What kind of help, doctor Sophy, and this is just based upon obviously you are not working with them so you don't know the intricacies of all this, but what kind of help would girls like this need to get?

GUSTER: Well first, if they are truly mentally ill, then this is not something that happened overnight. People do not, children, adolescents, adults, do not just begin to hallucinate one day to the next. So this would have been an ongoing mental illness that would have shown itself in many different ways. So they start with a psychiatric evaluation to be able to determine is

there really mental illness or is there other stuff going on like parenting or other kinds of issues that are not psychotic. Because if you are hearing a voice, you have lost touch with reality. And if you have lost touch with reality, that doesn't happen overnight. And parents should have noticed that.

BALDWIN: Based upon everything you have seen, Eric, final question, which do you have any idea which way you think this will go?

GUSTER: I believe they will keep it in the juvenile system because the psychologist that testified at the preliminary hearing that she believed this child actually heard voices and believed that Slenderman existed and told her to do these things. So I think the judge may keep it in juvenile court to get the child the help she needs.

BALDWIN: All right, Eric, thank you. Doctor Charles Sophy, thank you both very, very much.

And again, just a quick reminder as we covered earlier in my show, coming up next hour, we will be watching and waiting for the president to speak from the White House. This is a big White House summit, this counterterrorism summit and at issue, you know, federally funded programs to help pin point and focus on young Muslim youth, specifically, in certain communities. Could it help? Others say it is fine. Jake Tapper will have much more on that.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. "The LEAD" starts now.