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Obama Says U.S. Not at War with Islam; Interview with Senator Chris Coons; Egypt Wants U.S. and U.N. Help in Libya; Walmart to Raise Minimum Wage to $9/Hour; UMass Lifts Science Ban for Iranian Students

Aired February 19, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: President Obama says terrorists do not represent Islam. In just 90 minutes the president speaks again at an anti-extremism summit. Will he double down?

Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Next hour President Obama delivers a second major address on terrorism in just two days. Yesterday's theme igniting controversy after he refused to say the words Islamic extremism. And that has some conservatives howling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Al Qaeda and ISIL and groups like it are desperate for legitimacy. They try to portray themselves as religious leaders, holy warriors in defense of Islam. We must never accept the premise that they put forward because it is a lie. Nor should we grant these terrorists the religious legitimacy that they seek. They are not religious leaders, they're terrorists.

No religion is responsible for terrorism. People are responsible for violence and terrorism.

(APPLAUSE)

And we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's head to the White House where leaders from 60 nations are gathering from that summit on combating terrorism and its spread.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski at the White House this morning.

Good morning.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Yes, right. He's going to address these foreign ministers, other leaders, expected to talk about a more global approach.

Looking at things from a conceptual perspective, getting at the root of what extremism takes on the form of today and also looking at some practical examples from around the world, programs and other things that other nations could follow.

That's what we've been seeing on a more domestic level over the last couple of days, but now we're expecting it to take on a more international perspective.

COSTELLO: All right. Michelle Kosinski reporting live from the White House this morning. Thanks so much.

Just a reminder, our special coverage begins next hour, 10:25 Eastern. Then stay for the president's speech. That happens live at 10:30 Eastern.

As I said, some Republicans are incensed that President Obama refuses to use the term Islamic extremist when talking about ISIS. They say it's flat-out dangerous.

Here's Senator Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: This bizarre politically correct double speak, it is simply not befitting a commander-in-chief whose first obligation should be to protect the United States of America.

What undermines the global effort is for the president of the United States to be an apologist for radical Islamic terrorists, to analogize it, to the crusades from 700 years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And Senator Cruz isn't the only Republican taking aim at the president. According to "Politico," last night while speaking at a private political event in New York, former mayor Rudy Giuliani criticized the president and his love of country.

Giuliani reportedly said this, quote, "I do not believe and I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the president loves America. He doesn't love you and he doesn't love me. He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up, through love of this country," end quote.

So back to that basic question. Is it a mistake for the president not to call ISIS -- ISIS terrorists Islamic extremists?

Let's talk about that with Democratic Senator Chris Coons. He's also a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Welcome, sir.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Carol, thanks for a chance to be on.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. On Monday you tweeted out this, quote, "horrified by the video of 21 Egyptian Coptic Christians being beheaded by ISIS terrorists, unspeakable hatred and unthinkable extremism.

I couldn't help but noticed see you called ISIS extremist. Does that mean you agree with the president?

COONS: The president is making a simple but powerful point. And I'm upset that Senator Cruz is scoring cheap partisan political points off of this. I don't think this is very hard to understand or very complicated. ISIS is trying to characterize the United States and our allies as being at war with Islam, and ISIS is trying to characterize themselves as being the legitimate heirs of the prophet of Mohammed.

The religious leaders of Iran from the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, to the Council of Islamic Scholars of the Al-Azhar Mosque have rejected ISIS and said they are enemy number one to the relationship between Islam and their fundamental principles. So what our president is saying is we're not at war with Islam, we're at war with people who have perverted Islam and who are claiming to be Islamic extremist, Islamic jihadists, in order to advance their own legitimacy.

I understand the criticisms that are being leveled at the president, but they missed the broader point. 20,000 foreign fighters, folks from the United States, from Great Britain, Germany, France are flooding into Syria and Iraq to join ISIS' fight. We should not help ISIS by strengthening the perception that this is a war of Christianity against Islam. It's not. It's a war of the modern world against a group of medieval radical extremists who happen to be Muslims and are misclaiming a Muslim heritage and religious authority.

COSTELLO: So, Senator, just to be clear, you will no longer be calling ISIS religious extremists, Islamic extremists?

COONS: No. I mean, I frankly think we are dedicating far too much time to splitting hairs on this point. They are Islamic, they are extremists. Our president is trying to be careful about not claiming that this is a war between Christianity and Islam.

Does that make sense? It's a simple, powerful point.

COSTELLO: I will say this and I think it's --

COONS: And I don't think --

COSTELLO: I will say this and I want to bring this up because it's important for our audience to consider.

The CIA director, John Brennan, pointed out that al Qaeda recruitment went down after the United States stopped using the term the war on terror. According to the "Washington Post" in letters exchanged between Osama bin Laden and his deputies, bin Laden worried that, quote, "The al Qaeda brand had become a problem because the U.S. had, quote, 'largely stopped using the phrase the war on terror' in the context of not wanting to provoke Muslims."

So that instead, of course, according to these letters, prompted a war against al Qaeda. So is it a fair comparison? Because al Qaeda and ISIS -- well, ISIS is so much more extreme than al Qaeda ever was, right?

COONS: I was -- I was about to say that. ISIS literally thinks that al Qaeda is not extreme enough. ISIS is manipulating social media, modern media attention, is playing to our fears, anger, and sympathy in order to motivate us to draw us into a conflict with them.

This is a difficult dance for us to follow as a country. We need to engage our Muslim and Arab allies in the region. We need to motivate our allies to join with us in the fight against ISIS. I commend the president for convening a global summit on fighting extremism in all forms, but I do think it's important to emphasize at times when ISIS' victims are Christians, I called that out.

And I point to the fact that it was Coptic Christians who were murdered in Libya. When they murdered the Yazidis in Iraq, which is another religious minority and Christians, I pointed out the fact that they were massacring religious minorities including Christians. It is important to emphasize that they claim to be legitimate Muslim jihadists, but their legitimacy has been rejected by every respected leader of the Muslim world.

What the president's summit today is about is trying to align the United States and our domestic Muslim community with our national security interests, which are fighting extremism and reducing the number of Americans of all backgrounds that choose to go to the Middle East and join ISIS or Americans here who might become radicalized and decide to carry out acts of terror within our own country as we've tragically recently seen happen in both Denmark and France.

COSTELLO: All right. Senator Chris Coons, thanks so much for your insight. I appreciate it.

COONS: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

New reports of ISIS' barbarism again today. Iraq is asking the United Nations to investigate a shocking new claim that ISIS is harvesting organs from slain civilians and then selling them on the black market. CNN is unable to verify those claims nor can we confirm reports that

ISIS fighters have slaughtered at least 40 police officers and tribesmen in Iraq's Anbar Province. An Iraqi official says most of the victims were burned alive.

This as Egypt is asking for more international help in its strikes against ISIS in Libya. Egypt dispatched waves of war planes after ISIS fighters killed 21 of their Christians.

Let's head now to Egypt. Ian lee is in Cairo.

Hi, Ian.

IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Well, Egypt has been watering down its statements since the past couple of days. Initially they wanted an international coalition that we saw in Iraq and Syria go after ISIS in Libya as well.

Well, at the U.N. Security Council they're asking now for arms embargo to be lifted so that weapons can go to the internationally recognized government in eastern Libya in the -- in Libya, in the city of Toprov. They're also asking for a naval blockade to stop weapons going to other areas of the country where that Libyan government isn't in control.

The United States, though, not on board with this plan entirely which has -- which shows the cooling of relations that we've seen described by Rear Admiral John Kirby. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: It's a complex relationship that we have with Egypt. But we recognize that they face a significant terrorism threat. And we're constantly, you know, working through that with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: Well, Carol, you really have two philosophies on how to deal with ISIS in Libya. The Egyptian side is that there needs to be direct intervention. They want to back that Libyan national government in the east to fight ISIS, but that does pose a problem.

There are a bunch of different factions inside Libya, different militias that wouldn't be too keen on seeing that government getting weapons and fighting them as well. These other militias, not necessarily joining ISIS.

If it sounds complicated, it's because it is. There's so many different groups in that country vying for power, vying for control, and that's really where ISIS has been able to exploit.

On the other side, you have the diplomatic pressure. The U.N. believes that they can get these militias, these groups together, form some sort of unity government to fight ISIS. They believe that's the best path, although that is really a long shot as well. There really is no clear-cut answer to dealing with ISIS in the immediate and near term -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Ian Lee reporting live from Egypt this morning.

Coming up in the NEWSROOM, Wal-Mart makes a surprising announcement. Guess what? It's going to be paying its employees more. Much more. We'll talk about that next.

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COSTELLO: A surprising development this morning. Half a million Walmart workers are about to get a raise. The company says it's boosting its starting pay to $9 an hour, which would mean their employees get paid $1.75 over the minimum wage, the federal minimum wage, I should say.

Our chief business correspondent Christine Romans is here, also correspondent Poppy Harlow. They're both following the story.

Both of you sent me an e-mail saying, hey, we've got to get this on the air. I appreciate that.

You talked to the Walmart officials. Why do they do this?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're doing this because they want their shoppers to be happy and they want their employees, their associates to be happy, and they're going to be spending about a billion dollars to do this. They're raising the starting wage to $9. That's by April. So, that's about half a million of their associates will get a raise, a $9 raise. That's what they'll be getting.

By next year, it will be by February of next year, it will be $10 an hour will be the starting wage. The company is also very quick to point out they already pay above the minimum wage for almost everyone. Only 6,000 employees don't make it. A lot of states raised the minimum wage so Walmart has to abide by that.

So, when you look at it, by next year -- by six weeks, in April, the average full-time employee will have a wage of $13 an hour. The average part-time employee is $10 an hour. So, it's above the minimum wage, but not quite as high as the president would like. He'd like $10.10. And some restaurant workers would like $15 an hour.

COSTELLO: Why do you suppose Walmart decided to do this, Poppy?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, they thought -- the CEO talked about this in their last earnings call, that they were considering it.

I think it is twofold. I think, one, you see increasing pressure from online marketplaces like Amazon, et cetera. So, if you're going to get people to go into stores, you have to present them with workers that are very happy to be there, that make the experience better. You're getting paid more, you're going to be better at your job. That's part of it, I think.

I also believe that there is an -- a wave. I would call it a wave happening in this country right now. I believe it began more with occupy Wall Street. It continues with the growing income gap, and I believe that it is fundamentally changing the way that people look at what big businesses have to do and their responsibility to the -- to their workers. I think Walmart sees that. Where Walmart goes, others follow.

ROMANS: Yes, and I also think that Walmart knows this is good for the economy. An executive of the company told me, we know when you raise the minimum wage it is more money in people's pocket. It's paycheck to paycheck.

COSTELLO: What took them so long?

ROMANS: They would argue they've already had higher wages than the minimum wage but they're doing it -- also another part of this program, a program that will allow people to have more control over their schedule. That has been another complaint of people who work part time for retailers and Walmart in particular. They feel as though they're forced to work times they don't want -- they have enough flexibility. So, Walmart is putting more money into that, more flexibility for their associates.

HARLOW: This is also Sam's Club workers. One of the important things to look at, a lot of people who have these hourly jobs, this isn't their own job. They have two or three of these jobs. So, what workers -- what employers need to be doing as well as looking at, OK, do we have to bump the pay up as we're seeing here, is what do we have to do with giving people consistent schedules so that they can actually manage a family and actually manage having two of these hourly jobs? Because in this environment, you can't make it often with just one job.

ROMANS: And that is -- let's be honest, for a lot of families, two part-time jobs is a really big part of the bread winning. We didn't talk about customer satisfaction, too. Another part of this, another part of this whole thing is Walmart says they want their customers to be happy. If their associates are happy, well paid, and have flexibility in their work schedules, then their customers are happy, too. And customer satisfaction allows them to compete with the likes of the online retailers.

HARLOW: Do you think we're going to see some of the other big name box stores come out and follow suit?

ROMANS: I think we will. I also think we're going to see restaurant companies starting to -- because they're also having a hard time with turnover and also when you look at the -- you hear from the business lobby, they say, don't raise the minimum wage, it's bad for business, but you look at the customer polls, people want -- you know, people want higher wages for Americans.

COSTELLO: People want to be able to live affordably and be able to raise their children.

HARLOW: Wage stagnation has been the big issue. It has not been growing more than inflation. COSTELLO: We could talk about this forever. I must end it there.

ROMANS: If you want people, pay them more. That's all I got to say.

COSTELLO: Christine Romans, Poppy Harlow, thanks so much.

HARLOW: Sure.

COSTELLO: All right. In other news this morning, the University of Massachusetts Amherst is reversing course on a controversial policy that would have restricted Iranian students from enrolling in its science and engineering programs.

Now, the school had said it was trying to follow a 2012 law that prevents Iranian students in America from learning about nuclear technology while in this country, but after facing criticism the university now says it will look at students on a case-by-case basis before approving their course work.

So, let's talk about this. I'm joined by Nariman Mostafavi. He's an Iranian student here in the United States and he's studying at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. He's also a member of the Iranian Graduate Student Association at UMass.

Welcome. Thank you for being here.

NARIMAN MOSTAFAVI, PHD STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS, AMHERST: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: I appreciate your being here.

So, UMass says it's going to look at the students' curriculum on a case-by-case basis. What do you suppose it means by that?

MOSTAFAVI: Well, it's not stated clearly in the new policy that is released by UMass, and UMass Amherst has said that they will be taking a less restrictive policy. Our question basically is, why any restrictions at all because there has been no change in the law in 2012 and why all of a sudden, we need a new policy at UMass?

COSTELLO: Well, I think it's probably in part because of Iran and the alleged development of nuclear weapons there, the controversy that's going on there. Some Americans might wonder why the United States is allowing Iranian students to study things that might help them build a nuclear weapon here in the United States anyway. Can you address that?

MOSTAFAVI: I think that's a political issue and when it comes to politics, we might disagree on the matter. And some people might be pro sanction, some against it. Even the Iranian community is divided on the issue of sanctions, but here we're talking about the right to education. I think we shouldn't be disagreeing on rights and basic rights.

COSTELLO: Well, how would you respond to some Americans who might say it's dangerous to allow Iranian students in the United States to learn such things to bring back to Iran?

MOSTAFAVI: First of all, Iranian students have been coming to the United States for years, and they have been doing a great job in establishing a ground for communication between the two nations of Iran and America.

And Iranian students are -- have always been like advocating for change in Iran and they're not supporting everything that's happening by the government, like I want to say even in the long established democracies, you cannot hold citizens responsible for the actions of the governments. And we all know that Iran is not a democracy and the students actually have been always in the front line of advocating change and being the messengers of change.

It's not a great move to deprive people who are trying to improve their lives and improve the situation in Iran from the right to education and from the right to learn and change their futures.

COSTELLO: That said, are there courses today that you cannot take at UMass?

MOSTAFAVI: I don't think currently there are any courses that I cannot take. It has never occurred to me.

COSTELLO: And there was a huge outcry against this policy that the university put into place, and you the students, do you think you were successful? I'm sure you're pretty happy about the reversal, right?

MOSTAFAVI: We really appreciate that the university actually revised the policy. I wish that it had been entirely reversed, but the point is -- and we really like -- we want to thank our faculty and the UMass community that supported us and taking our voice out there. We should also give UMass credit for hearing the voice of the community and revising the policy.

But we want to make sure that the process of admitting Iranian students to UMass will be transparent and students will always be able to get into UMass based upon their merits for us or for me personally, it's not an Iranian issue, it's a UMass issue. I care about my school. I care about UMass. And it's not even easy for me to criticize UMass because it's my community. UMass's reputation is my reputation.

So, I -- I'm glad that this policy has been revised for now and I hope it will be reversed because this school I applied to was and is an equal opportunity institution that people can get into based upon their merits.

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you so much for being with me. Nariman Mostafavi, I appreciate it.

And I do want to read a statement from UMass right now, just in fairness. Quote, "We have always felt excluding students from admission conflicts with our institutional values and principles. It is now clear after further consultation and deliberation that we can adopt a less restrictive policy", end quote. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, six months after Michael Brown was shot to death by police, the Justice Department may be ready now to sue Ferguson's police department. We'll talk about that next.

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