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Dr. Drew
Suspect in Road Rage Death in Custody; New Info on Connection Between Meyers Family an the Suspect; "American Sniper" Trial to Go to Jury; Behind the Scenes with Bobbi Kristina
Aired February 19, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a murder suspect in the killing of so- called road rage mom. He is in custody after a dramatic standoff. We have new information about the connection between these two and we will speak to
their neighbors.
Plus, the "American Sniper" trial. The case about to go to jury. Chris Kyle`s friend is here. But, first let us get started with "WTF," the most
shocking story of the night dominating social media. Was the killing of Las Vegas mom, Tammy Meyers, the result of road rage or something more
complicated?
Eric Milton Nowsch, he is the 19-year-old taken into custody. There he is. He is charged with murder. Las Vegas authorities tweeted out that picture
right there immediately following his apprehension. And, they are looking for at least one more suspect. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is a standoff going on one street away in the same neighborhood where this shooting happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A mother is death was road rage responsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: She was giving her 15-year-old daughter a driving lesson, that is when she got into a heated exchange with the suspect who sped up behind
her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Police say Meyers and that driver sketched here argued. Meyers and her daughter then drove home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. RAY STEIBER, LAS VEGAS METRPOLITAN POLICE DEPT.: Her 22-year-old son came out of the house, got into the car. He was armed with a firearm that
is registered to him and then they left the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Meyers and her son returned home and this time the suspect followed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Tammy was shot in the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But questions are being raised about her role in the incident and what she may have done to put herself in danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us Samantha Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu!, Evy Poumpouras, Security Expert, former special agent secret service and Emily
Roberts, Psychotherapist. Sara Sidner was in the middle of a live shot when Tammy`s husband Bob came roaring out of his house apparently heading
towards the suspect`s location. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Emotions are high. You can see that he is angry. Let us listen to him.
ROBERT "BOB" MEYERS, HUSBAND OF TAMMY MEYERS: (EXPLETIVE WORD).
SIDNER: Again, that is Mr. Robert Meyers who is obviously distraught. Mr. Meyers --
SIDNER: Are you happy? You made my wife look like an animal and my son. There is the animal a block away. Are you happy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sara joins us now live from Las Vegas. Sara, did he have any suspicion do you think that the guy who is now in custody had something to
do with this?
SIDNER: Absolutely yes. We found that out a couple of hours ago when Robert Meyers and the family came out to talk to the media. Clearly angry
with us, the media, angry with social media saying that on social websites because of the sequence of events that -- you know, his wife and his son
had gotten into a car to go look for the suspect.
People, you know, saying horrible things to this family who is already suffering, obviously, with the loss of this mother of four, Tammy Meyers.
But he came out and he said, "I could not tell you guys then, but we knew this person. We knew this suspect."
We also know from neighbors that he actually went over to the house and knocked on the door a day or so ago, and police also came by. So, clearly,
there was a lot more to this story than anybody could have known.
PINSKY: Yes.
SIDNER: When we saw him coming at us, Drew, we knew that something was terribly wrong and this was likely the suspect in the case.
PINSKY: And, there is another one at large. There is still big gaps in the story. It is not all fitting together yet. And, Sara, you spoke to a
woman who lives in the neighborhood and knows both the Meyers family and the suspect. We will actually speak to that neighbor in just a minute.
But, first, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They were yelling over the speaker telling him he needed to come out with his hands in the air. Saying at least come
to a window. Let us know you are OK. We do not want to hurt you. We just want to talk to you. I am not really scared of the neighbor. He does not
really come off as scary to me. He is a little guy. He is like 5 foot and maybe 95 pounds.
SIDNER: Does he have spiky blonde hair?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: No. He has brown hair and it is short. And he got -- he does have light eyes. He is tiny. They said he was six
footish. He is like this tall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sara, Nancy Grace is reporting that the Meyers and this suspect did know each other in sort of a very, very significant way.
SIDNER: They did. We talked to the father about that as well. Apparently, Tammy Meyers and the suspect, she used to go and talk to him,
try to give him some help, some counseling, cook food for him. They have known each other for years according to Robert Meyers.
This case unfolding each and every day, there is something new that come out. And, this is the latest information that we have gotten from the
family and why they say she actually left her house with her son to try and keep the suspect away from the house. She returned home as you know.
And, that is when the suspect, according to police, came back and fired on her and her son. Her son returned fire. This case certainly nowhere near
over, although they do have a suspect in custody. They booked him on murder and several other charges. And, this case has the whole
neighborhood talking and worried. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes. Sara, thank you so much for that report. Evy, I am going to go to you. Does this case -- I mean you have had lots of experience with
violent people. This seems like far more than road rage.
I almost have trouble calling it road rage. This is some sort of a really disturbed person who happen to lived in the neighborhood that she came
across at the wrong time in the wrong way.
EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT/LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, it is very early to tell. Obviously, we do not have the facts. But, I do not
think -- I think when the facts to come out, it is going to have nothing to do with road rage.
PINSKY: Yes. I think you are right.
POUMPOURAS: I really think that this is -- I think that there is a lot more here. There is a history here. I would really want to know about the
mother`s relationship with this young man.
PINSKY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: I would want to know about their long walks, her mentoring him. What was the relationship there? There is a history there. And,
what enraged both him and her, especially her to the point where she wants to go get a weapon and look for him. This to me seems more a crime related
to passion to emotion. That is the sense that I get.
PINSKY: Emily, you had that theory as well, did you not?
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I did. There is so much that they are hiding. The family was hiding too. If they knew all along that -- or
presumed all along that this was going to be the alleged killer, I think that they should have called the cops in the beginning.
I am wondering why they did not do that. And, I am also curious about -- they are -- I do not want to say lying, but why would they have a reward
out there? Why would they have this information out there if they knew what the suspect could be?
PINSKY: Well, maybe -- Emily, maybe the one we are looking at the sketch of here is the other guy they are looking for. There is another one at
large, who is an accomplice.
ROBERTS: OK.
PINSKY: We do not know who pulled the trigger. We do not really know what is going on here. And, Sam, you said it last night, there is a lot more
going on.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU!: Yes. Dr. Drew, listen, I do feel terrible that this woman is dead and this family lost a wife and
a mom, but come on, what are they hiding? This is not road rage. There is a history here. Why did they not call police?
We talked about this last night. Why does the description not match? Why did they act like the father was saying that there is bad guys out there?
Why did not he just call it what it was and say we know who this person is?
PINSKY: And, you know --
SCHACHER: So, what are they hiding?
PINSKY: And, Sam, we do not know -- I do not know what kind of nurse Tammy was. Maybe she was a psychiatric nurse and maybe this was a kid she
identified as at risk youth and she was sort of trying to help him.
SCHACHER: So, why would not they come out with that?
PINSKY: Because, maybe they did not want to tip him off and have him run out of the area. They have the meantime -- Evy, do not they have to
convene some sort of -- get some sort of search warrant or some sort of arrest warrant for him? And, that takes time, right?
POUMPOURAS: Yes. I mean you, obviously, cannot just go arrest whoever. You have to have probable cause at least enough to go and get the search
warrant, arrest warrant. But, you know what is interesting, Dr. Drew?
You said something that she was -- she seemed to be some type of care provider, nurse provider. She was trying to help him, but then you have
the complete antithesis where she is going to get her son who has a weapon to pursue this man.
The idea is that she wanted to protect her daughter, but yet she is bringing her son and putting him at risk with the weapon to pursue someone
else who possibly has a weapon. So, it just almost does not --
PINSKY: It does not -- It does not except if she was somebody that dealt with violent mental health patients and really knew how to manage that kind
of situation. We just do not know this. I do not know what her background was. Maybe she was an ICU nurse. That is different than if she is a
mental health nurse.
But, she may -- maybe she was in deep with this person and was going to try to get him to a hospital. Who knows? We just do not know anything yet.
And, there is a lot they got to tell us.
Next, we will actually hear from neighbors of this kid taken into custody today. The kid, he is over 18. And, later, a friend of "American Sniper,"
Chris Kyle, is here to talk about the man, the film and the trial. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MEYERS: Are you happy? You made my wife look like an animal and my son. There is the animal, a block away. Are you happy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" PROGRAM: This was the father has just told me. "The mom gets scared. She races home. She says to the
girl, `Go in. I love you, baby`." "The son runs out. They take off. They are getting the car away from the house."
They feel the guys is in their neighborhood. They see him and at that time, the guy starts shooting at them. They race back home. The guy
follows and that is when the mother gets shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Evy and Emily. That, apparently, guys is the sequence of event. It is being called road rage, but all this new
information and, frankly, still more information to come. There is a suspect at large. The woman was murdered.
Tammy Meyers had known this kid for a long time. Apparently, she took walks with him. She counseled him. She was a mentor. I do not really
know what that relationship was all about. Emily, you thought there was something more nefarious going on there. I know you told one of our
producers this.
ROBERTS: Well, it does not -- Yes, like I said before, it does not make sense.
PINSKY: No. Emily --
ROBERTS: And, even if she was a psychiatric nurse or --
PINSKY: Emily. Emily.
ROBERTS: Yes.
PINSKY: You told the producer you thought this could be romantic.
ROBETS: I did.
PINSKY: And, I had not thought of that.
ROBERTS: I did and --
PINSKY: I had not thought of that.
ROBERTS: I did.
PINSKY: I do not believe it.
ROBERTS: Because they were so defensive.
PINSKY: I do not believe it, but it is certainly an interesting thought. And, I think Evy was contemplating the same thing. I think that is what
she was alluding too. I hope that is not the case. That is why I was making the case that this is may be a nurse who was trying to save a
trouble patient. But, Evy, you are smiling.
POUMPOURAS: I am smiling because, you know, you do not want to think that, obviously. I feel for the family. I feel for the husband. He is in pain.
But, there is just so many things that do not add up. Again, we do not know all the facts.
Based on what we are seeing, it does lead me to believe that there is something not right with this relationship, but all that could change if we
get new facts. The thing is we only know one side of the story.
PINSKY: Right.
POUMPOURAS: The side that the father shared and that the son shared. We do not know anything about the other side. So, that is why I am very
hesitant to say anything because I do not know the facts.
PINSKY: All right. So, Samantha, you have -- those two with their sort of nefarious attitude about this. What do you say?
SCHACHER: I agree with them, Dr. Drew. Something is definitely up here --
PINSKY: Well, something up --
SCHACHER: Well, I think that it also has to do --
PINSKY: OK. Go ahead, finish it up.
SCHACHER: I think it also has to do with some sort of relationship. If it was not the mom, perhaps something happened with the daughter. I do not
even think that they were doing driving lessons. It is at 9:00 at night. It just does not make sense.
PINSKY: And, by the way, are not we in Las Vegas? I do not know -- you know, the big drug in Las Vegas? I have had to contend with this
methamphetamine. Evy, you agree with me on that. Methamphetamine is the drug of violence. Maybe this kid is tweaking.
You know, the case we are going to talk about in a minute with the Chris Kyle, that was a K-2 spice thing. I believe that could be part of the
story here as well. On the phone, I have Melissa Mours. She is one of the neighbor of the suspect, the kid who is being held. Missy, tell us --
would you tell me, is there anybody suspect there were drugs involved here?
MELISSA "MISSY" MOURS, SUSPECT`S NEIGHBOR (via phone): Well, I mean, I have saw pot coming out of the house and I know that he has involvement --
I have not seen anything else besides -- his pictures and whatnot will show you his involvement with that and whatnot.
PINSKY: Well, but Missy, the problem I have is, obviously, pot is not going to make somebody do this, but K-2 and spice could. Do you know, was
he trying to pass a drug test? Was he a chronic --
MOURS: No. No. He has not been trying to get any kind of job.
PINSKY: Unfortunately, our connection is just terrible here. I am going to move aside, Missy and see if we can get to a place we can get some
decent reception. Sam, you want say something?
SCHACHER: Yes. I was really curious to see what kind of nurse, as you brought up, Dr. Drew, she was.
PINSKY: That would be interesting. Yes.
SCHACHER: Was she psychiatric nurse? Did she work with addiction? Or was that you just being a co-dependent trying to somehow --
PINSKY: Well, I know that she was a nurse. I know that was a nurse and I know she was helping this kid. And, I have to think, you know, why would a
nurse do that? And, you know, Emily and Evy go to the sinister ideas here that I doubt --
ROBERTS: Well, I believe that --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Emily.
ROBERTS: I do think that there could be, if she is a nurse and she was trying to help him, but let me tell you why. If I had someone like this
and I was afraid for my kids` lives and my life, even if they were a patient that I really cared about, but I knew that they could go this
route, you better believe I would be on the phone. You cannot really help crazy sometimes. You really cannot.
PINSKY: No. Right. That is right.
ROBERSTS: You are putting your life and your son`s life in danger.
PINSKY: But, that maybe the flip side here. Maybe she was not a psychiatric nurse and really thought too much of her ability to help a kid
like that. It was a neighborhood kid in need. Evy, as you have said, you know, how can we get people to understand that some people are just not
available in that way to be helped?
POUMPOURAS: No. Some people are not. There are some people that you cannot help them, but this is the thing again, Dr. Drew. It just does not
sit right with me. Yes, she wants to help them but then at the same time, she is still capable of going to get a gun to pursue him and to get her
son.
SCHACHER: Right.
POUMPOURAS: This is what I do not -- I do not like that. I cannot see you are willing to help somebody to that degree and you are that put together
to do that. But, then, at the same time you are that emotionally unstable and illogical where you get your child and you get a weapon and you pursue
someone else. A logical, rational person calls 911.
PINSKY: And, unfortunately, this social media -- the mob has sort of taken its focus on this poor family on the husband`s Facebook page, he vented
after suspending the Gofundme account.
He wrote, "Please note, I was told one version of what happened to my wife. I never said anything different than I was told. If all you, people, think
that I was a fraud and lied about facts, I am truly sorry. There was nothing that I could have changed that night. I happened to be 400 miles
away."
And, I would say, everybody, stop it. This poor man has lost his wife. He is not responsible for what happened here. He is a suffering, grieving
husband. We do not yet -- there is loads of facts to come yet.
We agree with you, those of you that are taking aim at this family, but there is aspects to the story that make it feel suspicious at least. But,
it might have been well meaning. It might have been bad judgment. It might have been just the wrong thing at the wrong time. Until we get the
facts. Let us just wait this one out. I think that is it.
Next up, I have the "American Sniper" trial that maybe headed to the jury soon.
And, later, the Bobbi Kristina Brown tragedy. What is going on behind the scenes as she lies indefinitely in coma? I will get into that and more
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON REID, AS NAVY DOCTOR, IN THE FILM "AMERICAN SNIPER: Let me ask you a question, Chris. Would you be surprised if I told you that the Navy
has credited you with over 160 kills?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: I am talking about the trial of the man who shot dead Chris Kyle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: He testified that Routh once believed his coworkers were cannibals. His doctor is saying Routh was, quote, "clearly
psychotic."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The manifestation of psychosis suggests a drug-induced psychosis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDDIE RAY ROUTH, THE REAL-LIFE "AMERICAN SNIPER" KILLER (audio re- enactment): I have been so paranoid schizophrenic all day. I do not know what to even think of the world right now. I do not know if I am insane or
sane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If you remember, it was Eddie Ray Routh`s sister that was the one that first called 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LAURA BLEVINS, EDDIE RAY ROUTH`S SISTER: He said that he killed two guys, they went to a shooting range. Like he is all crazy. He is (EXPLICIT
WORD) psychotic.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: A few weeks before the murders, Routh held his girlfriend and her roommate at knife point in her apartment. And, the night before the
killings she said:
JENNIFER WEED, EDDIE RAY ROUTH`S GIRLFRIEND (audio re-enactment): I asked him if he was seeing things and he said yes. And, then I asked him if he
was hearing things and he said yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Eddie Routh on trial for the murders of Chad Littlefield and Chris Kyle. He claims he was insane at the time of the killings and that he
suffered from PTSD. And, the defense seems to be making some spurious connection between these two.
Today, the defense`s own experts say that he suffers from schizophrenia, not PTSD. Joining us Anahita Sedaghatfar, attorney at anahitalive.com;
Jessie Jane Duff, Gunnery Sergeant U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.) and Senior Fellow with the London Center for Policy Research and Danine Manette,
criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal." And, on the phone, CNN Correspondent, Ed Lavandera, who as been covering the trial. Ed, give
us the latest update, will you?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Dr. Drew, defense attorneys have wrapped up their case. And, they put on most of the day
what we heard today was their own medical expert who talked about Eddie Ray Routh being delusional and going through the time line of his four visits
in the psychiatric hospitals.
He said and told this jury that he does not believe that Eddie Ray Routh knew what he did was wrong at the time of the murders of Chris Kyle and
Chad Littlefield. But, there was one line in particular, if you can imagine prosecutors will seize on, and that he said also in the course of
this interview that was done last year over the course of six hours that Eddie Ray Routh said that, "As soon as I did it, I realized that I made a
mistake."
PINSKY: Thank you, Ed. Anahita, the defense`s own expert says, "Oh, it is really not PTSD. Certainly, not PTSD causing the psychosis, because it
typically does not."
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
PINSKY: He is schizophrenic, but he was sure to say one thing, Anahita. He said, "In my opinion, this was not substance-induced psychosis." That
was the only clear thing he said today. So, now the defense`s entire care distills down to that, does not it?
SEDAGHATFAR: Not really, because he also said that he believed based on his examination that Chris Kyle was delusional, that he was paranoid and
that at the time of the killing, he did not know the difference between right from wrong.
PINSKY: Anahita, what if he took the drugs and rendered him into that kind of thinking? He was so disorganized. He was encephalopathic, not just
psychotic, but disorganized and it was because of the drugs. Is not that where the prosecution really focused themselves?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. That is what the prosecution wants to argue, because like I said before on your show, voluntary intoxication will not be a
defense to the crime. But, the issue here is really what the expert was saying, Dr. Drew, because we know clearly he had mental issues. This is
documented. He has been in and out of mental hospitals.
The key is whether or not those jurors believed that he did not know the difference between right from wrong at the moment of the killing. It could
be that at the time that he was being interviewed here, he did believe that what he did was wrong. He could have snapped out of that moment where he
was delusional or thinking that the victims were trying to kill him to steal his soul out of his body.
PINSKY: And, then Danine, they are using PTSD to try to get sympathy for this guy. To me, that is an offense for people that really suffer from
PTSD. And, by the way, this guy lied to the defense psychiatrist. Routh, he lied to this guy about the drugs he took the morning of the shooting.
So, how can the psychiatrist be so sure of anything?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: See -- and I agree, Dr. Drew. I cannot get into all the psychobabble. But what I do know is that three men
left in that truck that day, and two of them came back in body bags.
And, the third one needs to pay for what he did. Do I believe that mental health issues had to do with the component in what happened? Sure. Yes,
it does. It has some part of the explanation, but I refuse to allow it to be an excuse.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: If you allow it to be an excuse, you are saying that A equals B, which means that people that suffer from these mental health issues are
killers and that is just not the case. So, I refuse to lump that altogether.
I think that he knew exactly what he was doing when he did it and that his mental health issues played a part into why he chose to do what he did.
Why he made the decision to do what he did, but he knew what he was doing at the time he did it and he needs to pay for that.
PINSKY: It is rare that I am not surprised by Danine`s opinion. But, today, I am not surprised that I agree, wholeheartedly. But, Jessie Jane,
as I learn more about this guy, the more disturbed I get about.
And, frankly, more disturbed -- sorry Anahita -- the more disturbed I get about the defense. Because they are using PTSD in ways that are offensive.
They are trying to make it seem as though this guy did not do a lot of drugs and whatever he was taking. I think there --
SEDAGHATFAR: I disagree with you. I could not disagree with you more.
PINSKY: How?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, because I do not think the defense is using PTSD as a defense. It is clear. That is not a legal defense.
PINSKY: They are using it as a way to try to sway the jurors` sympathies. That is all.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: And, it is offensive. It is offensive.
SEDAGHATFAR: That happens in every case.
PINSKY: And -- and, OK. Jessie Jane, and he is taking money from taxpayers needless. He does not have PTSD. He claims he had PTSD from
cleaning up in HAITI after the earthquake. He never left the ship.
JESSIE JANE DUFF, GUNNERY SERGEANT U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): OK. Regardless of whether he has PTSD or not, 7 million Americans have PTSD,
OK? We have people on active duty today that have PTSD.
PINSKY: Yes.
DUFF: It is manageable. So, let us separate that from this. This guy is manipulative. Anybody who has been in and out of psychiatric care like he
has has learned verbiage knows exactly what he needs to say. It is quite apparent to me when he was in the back of the police car and starts spewing
out, "Oh, I think I had a psychotic state."
How can he self-diagnose himself like that? If he was truly crazy, I do not think he would even recognize that he has mental illness. This guys
knows exactly what he is doing. Now, let us add on the illegal drug use that he has done. They do not want that thrown in there because they know
that is now like a DUI.
He enabled himself to get mix up his drugs. And as a United States Marine, we all know you do not go to rifle range on drugs. We know you do not go
on with alcohol in our system. That was ingrained. I will tell you that was ingrained into his head and he did this. He knew what he was doing.
And, then when he turns around and declared insane, so he can get off the murder charge is just kind of amazing to me.
PINSKY: I agree with everybody tonight. And, let me add one more sort of brick in the wall here. And, that is, Evy informed me that she had read
that this guy had a long history of torturing animals. If anybody else has any doubts about this guy and would like to pile on with us, how about
that? That is usual where we can get the whole crowd together. That is usually where we can get the whole crowd together.
The guy tortured animals, which predicts very high likelihood of violence against humans. It also suggests psychopathy too. So, we might have
multiple problems here. And, frankly, none of which seem to be being accurately addressed in the courtroom. So, Jessie, does not that concern
you, this guy is not get the proper punishment?
DUFF: What concerns me is that -- yes, he is obviously mentally ill. But what bothers me is that he is manipulating the very system that he has been
a part of to try to relieve his charges. He needs to take accountability for this.
And, the fact to the matter is that any compensation he is receiving from the veterans administration for his care needs to be relinquished and given
to the victims` families. Because he should in no way for the rest of his life receive that kind of money from taxpayers.
PINSKY: There you go. And, Danine, I will let you drop the last bomb in here. I set you up pretty good. We are all with you tonight. But, see if
you could take it one step further. Go ahead.
(LAUGHING)
MANETTE: Well, I totally agree that this guy is mentally ill, Dr. Drew. But, the standard in Texas of criminal liability is whether or not he knew
what he was doing at the time he did it. He talked about the bible. So, he read the bible beforehand. He talked about it afterwards, so he knew.
PINSKY: And, Danine, if he understood that we knew he had done something bad.
MANETTE: Right. Exactly.
PINSKY: And, he clearly knew that.
MANETTE: So, I do not think he is going to get off, because that is the standard in Texas. Whether or not he knew what he was doing was wrong at
the time he did it and he says he knew it before and he says he knew it right after. So, we are supposed to believe he just forgot for that few
seconds? I am not buying it. It is a bunch of crap.
PINSKY: There you go. Next, Chris Kyle`s -- there it is. That is what I am looking for, Danine, a bunch of crap. There we go. Next, Chris Kyle`s
friend who advised Bradley Cooper on the set of "American Sniper." He was Chris` friend and he will be here with us. Get his thoughts on this.
And, later, Bobbi Kristina Brown in a coma for three weeks. She will remain that way in my opinion indefinitely. So, what should be done? Back
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRADLEY COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE, IN THE FILM "AMERICAN SNIPER": The thing that haunts me are all the guys that I could not save. And, I am willing
and able to be there, but I am not. I am here. I quit.
REID, AS NAVY DOCTOR: You can walk down any hall in this hospital. We got plenty of soldiers that need saving.
COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE: Mm-hmm.
REID, AS NAVY DOCTOR: You want to take a walk?
COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE: Sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was a clip from "American Sniper." Back with me, Anahita, Jessie and Danine. And, on the phone, I have Kevin Lacz. He is a retired
Navy S.E.A.L., who did two tours in Iraq with Chris Kyle. He is also co- stars in the movie, "American Sniper."
Kevin, first of all, you know, our thoughts are with you around this tragedy and our condolences. I wonder if you could just share with us a
little bit about Chris and for instance his commitment to vets who were struggling and how he ended up trying to help a guy that was the wrong guy.
KEVIN LACZ, RETIRED NAVY S.E.A.L., SERVED WITH CHRIS KYLE (via phone): Yes. Thank you for having me on, Dr. Drew. You know, Chris was a team guy
in every essence of the world. He really encapsulated whatever it was like to be a S.E.A.L. team member. And that brotherhood was something that he
held really close.
And, you know, it is something that carry on after he got out of the navy. He went back to Texas and started to take on a bigger role with, you know,
his local community and eventually veterans.
And, you know, Chris always held that close to his heart. And, you know, this situation ended up happening with something that he cared deeply
about, and that was helping the people around him, part of that brotherhood.
PINSKY: How was he -- I understand you spoke to him just before he was killed. How was he doing then?
LACZ: You know, we had a great relationship outside the Navy. Our friendship continued the years that passed when we both left. And, you
know, I ended up working with Chris. I spoke with him the day before. We texted that morning.
Chris was well. He was glad to be with his kids and is spending time back home, being with his parents and his brother. And, you know, he was at
peace. He was happy to be home. He was happy to be with that family unit.
PINSKY: And, I wonder if you have any thoughts about this Routh fellow and his defense and the way they are building this case.
LACZ: You know, I am a physician assistant by trade and, you know, I am not a lawyer. But what really, you know, strikes me as the use of PTSD and
I think it is a very important topic that is being talked about nowadays.
But, my fear is that, you know, PTSD this will cast a long shadow and really classify people that do not fall into the category of the defendant.
But, the defendant is kind of misrepresenting those that suffer from PTSD.
PINSKY: Thanks so much, Kevin. I really appreciate you joining us. And, Jessie, this is my thing. It is offensive to people. Frankly, it is an
offense for people with psychotic illnesses too. Let us remind ourselves, this guy tortured animals, at least reportedly.
This guy is disorganized to the point that it does not fit a typical psychotic illness. It fits encephalopathy, which is a drug-induced
phenomenon. So, it is really -- the way this is being portrayed could potentially further stigmatize and harm others.
DUFF: Yes. You know, the problem I also have is that this stigmatizes veterans completely because the reality is that some of the most honorable
people I have met in my entire life are my United States Marines that I served with.
And, I want to shout out to Kevin, "Semper Fi, my Navy brother." Because the reality is, is that when you go on active duty, the battery of tests we
have to go through, most civilians cannot even join.
I mean either they do not meet mental standards, the physical standards, the police record checks, even the medical backgrounds requiring their drug
usage even since they were children.
It is a very strict standard. This guy Routh got through the pipeline. And, it is very unfortunate that he now is labeling all of us as crazies by
clinging on to PTSD, so that he will have the sympathy card. I mean they had to take the death penalty off the table because of that very image of
Americans thinking that this veteran would be sentenced to death.
So, you know, there are deeper issues. I think the man is manipulative. Once he was diagnosed, he had a responsibility to maintain his healthcare.
He refused to take ownership of that responsibility and is now leaning on the court system to get him off from this.
PINSKY: And, Anahita, that drives me crazy when people do not take care of their healthcare and then something terrible happens and then they want
that to be the excuse, their medical condition.
SEDAGHATFAR: I agree.
PINSKY: And, that is where people like me who try to understand things get accused of making excuses for people that behave horribly.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. I agree with you. And, I agree with the fact that the defense is throwing in PTSD for the sympathy factor. They are trying
to show those jurors, "Look, he is a veteran, have sympathy." They are trying to humanize him, because it is not a legal defense.
But, Dr. Drew, from the defense attorney perspective, you have to pull out all the shots. When your client is facing life in prison and when your
client does indeed have documented mental history, you have to sort of bring this in.
You have to do anything that you can to spare him life in jail. And, by the way, it is not that if he gets off on this, it is not like he is going
to be roaming around on the streets. He is facing life in a mental facility either way.
PINSKY: Danine, where we can spend our tax dollars on this guy?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. Sadly. Sadly.
MANETTE: Dr. Drew, one thing that just really bothers me about this entire case is that even though I understand that Chris did not know this guy`s
back story, other people around him did. And, I do not understand why it is acceptable to take someone who has been in and out of mental
institutions, has all these certifiable mental health issues and conditions, put a gun in their hand and teach them how to shoot better.
Have we not learned anything from Adam Lanza`s mom and the whole Sandy Hook issue?
PINSKY: Yes. And -- and --
MANETTE: That drives me crazy.
PINSKY: And, what I think is that mom was the one that called Chris Kyle. Again, we have another mom in denial.
MANETTE: Exactly. Another mom in the same situation that put everyone in danger.
PINSKY: We have a guy who knows not to use substances before putting a gun in his hand, as Jessie pointed out. That was drilled into his head. We
have a guy who is not taking his medication, who is not following up and would rather get high and loaded and do whatever drugs he wants to do.
And, this is not OK, guys. This is not OK. This is how catastrophes happen and people need to be held accountable when they do.
Next up, Bobbi Kristina still in an Atlanta Hospital tonight in a coma. And, I am telling you, I am sorry, I will explain to you why I believe it
is just not going to change. We are on Instagram with green room pictures and other behind the scenes photos. Check us out @drdrewhln. We are back
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Most of what comes into the ICUs, physicians really wish they had not brought in. We really do, because they end up in these sort of
interminable situations that are not in the patient`s best interest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: Drew, I am getting tired of you trying to recruit me to your death panel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICCI GILBERT-DANIELS, R&B ARTIST/PRODUCER: With all due respect, Dr. Drew, I am one who believes in the power of people being able to heal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: She is not brain dead. No one is saying she is brain dead. It is actually a worse situation if it were me or my family member, because you
are going end up with somebody who is not themselves ever again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Danine, Emily and Dr. Bill Lloyd joins us, surgeon, pathologist. This is the story you are tweeting about the most tonight,
Bobbi Kristina on life support now for 20 days. She is has undergone now, as I predicted, a surgery for a tracheostomy.
Family sources tell us, her doctors are trying to slowly lift the medically-induced coma, but they cannot because she has recurrent seizures
from the swelling in her brain that is diffusely severely damaged. A lot of you are calling this progress and are worrying about things like will
she -- will she ever sing again.
These are things that are so far out of reach. Please, people, this is not what we got here. We got somebody who is not going to be able to get out
of bed ever. Dr. Lloyd, it is time for us to have our little curve side consult here. Have you -- The tracheostomy is in.
Again, after you have an endotracheal tube for breathing in for too long, there is always a tracheostomy when there is limited or no probability that
is somebody is going to come off of ventilator. So, we now know that the ventilator in the ICU are pretty much fixed for the time being. That
suggests as not to you how unstable the situation is.
DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: No, I think we can talk about good news. You know, I was surprised this morning turning on the T.V. and
learning that they had actually removed the endotrachial breathing tube. So, I thought maybe she was brain dead overnight and we were going to move
on to the next chapter.
But, no, this signifies that the family says, "We are all in and we are going forward for the long haul." So, they are taking this girl to surgery
to give her a permanent orifice, a hole in her throat so that the artificial ventilation machines can connect to her without the dangers of
the usual tubes.
PINSKY: It reduces the risk of --
DR. LLOYD: So, in this way they want her to stay alive.
PINSKY: Well -- Obviously, they do. They are not letting them take her out of the ICU, but it reduces the risk of aspiration, the erosions that
occur from the endotracheal tube. But, do not you think we need to get a neurology consult here? Get at least a probabilistic assessment of what is
likely to happen with this girl that has been in a coma for 20 days.
DR. LLOYD: She probably already had six neurologists.
PINSKY: Well, let us -- I want to bring in a neurologist right now.
DR. LLOYD: And, they already know.
PINSKY: And, what do you think they told them?
DR. LLOYD: Bobby Brown Is not a doctor. The father --
PINSKY: What do you think the neurologist told him?
DR. LLOYD: He is the father of this girl.
PINSKY: What do you think they told him?
DR. LLOYD: Do everything you can do. Do everything you can do.
PINSKY: So, let me bring in a neurologist. I got Dr. Lydia Shajenko, Neurologist and Clinical Neurophysiologist. And, Dr. Shajenko, thank you
for joining us. We need a neurology consult. So, you are somebody that assess patients with what are called hypoxic brain injuries, people that
are after resuscitation who have not had enough brain -- enough oxygen to the brain.
DR. LYDIA SHAJENKO, NEUROLOGIST & CLINICAL NEUROPHYSIOLOGIST: Correct.
PINSKY: And, in this case, she was drowned. It takes about three minutes for the brain tissue to die, correct?
DR. SHAJENKO: Correct.
PINSKY: And, what we have is a case where 20 days on a coma where they cannot lighten up the medication because she has seizures. She is on
ventilator. She cannot leave the ICU because she is so unstable. What is the probability -- and we think -- it seems like she has limited reflex --
response of the external world.
No spontaneous movement. Maybe some eye blinking. That is the story we hear from the family. We may be wrong, but this what we are hearing.
Given those constellation of findings, what is the probability that that patient, Bobbi Kristina Brown in this case, if what we are getting is
accurate, what is the probability that that patient will have meaningful recovery?
DR. SHAJENKO: Well, based on all the evidence that we have been provided, there is a high degree of medical certainty there is a poor prognosis for
any meaningful neurological recovery.
PINSKY: So, what would the percentage be? If you had to give the family a number, if they would ask you, "But, doc, what is the percentage that this
person could return -- recover?
DR. SHAJENKO: No. Recover back to the way she was before probably zero percent.
PINSKY: Zero percent. So, it is a zero percent probability that she is going to recover that she is going to sing. How about a probability that
she is going to survive? What is the probability of that?
DR. SHAJENKO: The probability of surviving is more closer to around 70 to 80 percent given her age.
PINSKY: And, what would that survival be like? Is she just going to be on a ventilator chronically or she going to be on a nursing home
contractually?
DR. SHAJENKO: Probably ventilator and in a nursing home in a persistent vegetative state. This is based on her history and clinical presentation.
Here, we have a young lady who was found to have asphyxia. So, this is anoxic brain injury for more than 3 minutes.
And, we do know that brain cells, neurons start dying after 3 minutes and it is irreversible deaths. Of course, we do not know how long she was
anoxic, but we do know that this was a significant amount of time. We do also know factually that the MRI of the brain shows edema. And, this is a
clear indication that there is a significant amount of diffused neuronal cell death.
Again, the EEG show persistent seizure activity. Again, at the very prognosis -- core prognosis finds. So, again, as I mentioned before, there
is a high degree of medical certainty that there is a poor prognosis for any meaningful neurologic recovery.
And, what I mean by meaningful, meaning any ability to have any cognitive function, any ability to have any thought process, to appreciate life, and
have any appreciation for any sensory modalities.
PINSKY: Thank you very much.
DR. SHAJENKO: It is a very, very sad situation.
PINSKY: Thank you. It is very sad and thank you, Dr. Shajenko. I have seen hundreds, maybe now thousands of these cases in my life. Dr. Lloyd,
that is what I have been saying. So, our neurology consultation agrees with me.
Our challenge now -- I have to go to break. Our challenge now is to get the family to understand what this means. I am sorry to turn your mic off.
We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Danine, Emily and Dr. Bill Lloyd. And, Bill, now we had our neurology consultation. She confirmed what I have been saying for a
week, which is there is a zero probability of meaningful survival. Now what?
DR. LLOYD: Precisely, Drew. Now what? I am not sure what your action plan is. You have been saying all week, we are not talking about pulling
the plug.
PINSKY: No. That is right.
DR. LLOYD: This is a woman of needs. She will be available for as a long as health care --
PINSKY: Well, Dr. Lloyd, you have been arguing with me. Yesterday you told me that she could have a full recovery. That is what I was arguing
about. There is no probability of a recovery here, zero.
So, based upon that, how aggressive do we want to be? That conversation needs to be had. We need to stop talking about improvement and getting
better and she is going to get out of this and start talking about realistic goals.
What are we going to do here for this poor person who is not going to recover? What do we do? And, that needs to be convened and discussed in a
plan that meets the family`s needs and the patient`s needs. I hope they are doing that in the hospital. And, Danine, you had a theory here about
why this is not happening?
MANETTE: I am sure they are doing that in the hospital, Dr. Drew. But, I think that this is less about hope for them and more about guilt. When
somebody died, everyone you know, gathers around and "Oh, we are going to support you. We are going to be there."
But, then everybody left. And, I think that they feel bad that they have left Bobbi Kristina alone that this has happened to her. And, they are not
going to be quick to turn this plug off. They are not going to be quick to let go of this situation.
PINSKY: Right. And, Emily, you cannot pull the plug. I mean you can be less aggressive. You can talk about it differently. You can talk about
reducing suffering and limiting the sort of human suffering that is likely to come out of these limbo cases and let things go what may and start --
stop talking about somebody walking away and singing. It is not going to happen.
ROBERTS: You can have faith but you can also be realistic. And, the reality here is they need some people in there to help them cope with the
grieving process. They need some hospice care to help them. They also probably needs grieving counselors. And, they probably need a huge legal
team to battle out this potential loss of money or division of money from her.
PINSKY: And, that might be part of the problem here. But, again, this is why I have been so impassioned about this. We are not realistic about our
medical care. We are not realistic about what happens to the patient. And, often, there is nobody to represent the patient.
I hope -- I am certain that the physicians in these teams are representing the patient. And, there are ethics committees as Dr. Lloyd mentioned
yesterday, as bioethical committee probably meet every day and try to decide what is best for this young lady.
But, it seems as though very little of the quality of which Emily just mentioned, things like hospice, things like comfort is priority, things
like what kind of meaningful existence -- we all have to think about this and put together what is called a directive to physicians, so it is all
written down.
You can see that even a 20-year-old needs something like this or else somebody whom they have discussed it with so the decisions can be made on
behalf of the patient, not the family who is grieving. It is of course painful and horrible.
And, our hearts break for them. But, ultimately, the responsibility is to the patient. And, if I were that patient and they put me in this kind of a
limbo indefinitely, I would -- if I could come back and haunt them, I would. "Forensic Files" next.
END
