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Iraqi Spring Offensive to Reclaim Mosul; Giuliani Defends Criticism of Obama; Police Searching for 2nd "Road Rage" Suspect; Up to 25,000 Iraqi Troops to Target Mosul

Aired February 20, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

The U.S. gearing up to take ISIS down. Military sources now putting out the word of a massive spring offensive.

Here's what we know. The U.S. will play a key role in planning the assault. It will also be the biggest test yet of the American training of Iraqi soldiers.

Now the offensive will happen in April or May. Up to 25,000 Iraqi soldiers will converge on Mosul, Iraq, and try to reclaim Iraq's second largest city. The Iraqi troops will outnumber the ISIS fighters by about 12 to 1. Right now there are about 3,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.

CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon with more on this.

So I guess the most surprising thing about this is the early word. Why warn ISIS that you're coming?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, the Pentagon will tell you this is not going to be a surprise to ISIS. They know the shape of the battlefield on the ground. They know that backed by the United States the Iraqis consider it vital to take back Mosul, the second largest city in Iraq. The key prize that ISIS took last year, the Iraqis want it back, but all of this, as you say, is really going to depend on those Iraqi forces, 20,000 to 25,000 of them.

Will they be ready? Will they finally months later after going on the run from ISIS, will they be able to turn around and take that city back? They are going to go through some extended U.S. training, but this is still a very tall order for the Iraqi forces.

The Pentagon is saying April or May, you know, summer weather coming to Iraq it will get very hot, it will get tougher to move around but if the Iraqis aren't ready, they can't go. So, you know, a little bit of psychological warfare here perhaps on all sides.

What the Pentagon is saying is this is the Iraqi plan. They are putting it out there. They are supporting them. There's nothing in what they've said that they claim would give ISIS any real tactical advantage on the battlefield. They know all of this is happening but, still, a very long way to go.

COSTELLO: All right. Barbara Starr, reporting live from the Pentagon this morning. Thank you.

America's fight against ISIS expands well beyond Iraq. We're also learning the United States and Turkey have struck a deal to train and equip moderate Syrian rebels. Turkey's foreign minister telling Reuters that the program could begin in just a few weeks. The rebels are fighting the government of President Bashar al-Assad.

Two weeks after Jordan's military bombed ISIS targets and bolstered the U.S.-led coalition the country's foreign minister is visiting the State Department. Just minutes from now he'll sit down with Secretary of State John Kerry. Jordan ramped up airstrikes after ISIS burned alive a captured Jordanian pilot.

And the Obama administration's approach to the war on ISIS including a refusal to use the phrase radical Islamist prompted Rudy Giuliani to say President Obama does not love America.

Yes, that's still a controversy this morning.

Giuliani's comments made during a speech at a private Washington dinner going public and sparking a firestorm of criticism from Democrats and others in the process. For his part, Giuliani is not backing down.

Here's what he told FOX News last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: I'm right about this. I have no doubt about it. I do not withdraw my words. If the president goes and makes a speech and talks about what a great country this is, if the president could complete the following sentence, during the crusades, the Christians were barbarians and so were the Muslims. If the president could say Islamic fundamentalist terrorism is our enemy, I will applaud the president.

But until he does that, I will have doubts about his emotions, his feelings, his attitudes and the way in which he developed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: DNC chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz calling on Republicans to condemn the remarks. And now potential 2016 candidates are caught on the crosshairs. One of them Louisiana governor, Bobby Jindal, saying the gist of what Giuliani said is true. But another Republican, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker who was actually in the room during the initial speech, refused to comment when questioned by CNBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: The mayor can speak for himself. I'm not going to comment on what the president thinks or not. He can speak for himself. I tell you, I love America and I think there are plenty of people, Democrat, Republican, independent, everyone in between who love this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Now one man on the front lines of the nation's terrorism fight is Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. He also worked for Rudy Giuliani during his tenure as New York City mayor. And in an interview with Wolf Blitzer, Johnson had this to say about his former boss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Rudy hired me to be an assistant U.S. attorney 26 years ago. I was with Mayor Giuliani last 9/11 in New York City. We made the rounds together at fire stations, police stations, and I have to say to the former mayor, that is not a helpful comment, particularly in these times when we're facing so many challenges right now and so I just don't regard it as a helpful comment about the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this and the wider war on terror.

Democratic Congressman Andre Carson joins me now. Welcome, sir.

REP. ANDRE CARSON (D), INDIANA: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being here. You are Muslim, an Indiana native. You serve on the House Intelligence Committee. You also worked in the Indiana Department of Homeland Security in the antiterrorism unit.

When Homeland Secretary -- when Homeland Secretary Jeh Johnson says Mayor Giuliani's comments don't help, what does he mean?

CARSON: I absolutely agree. Mayor Giuliani is a very intelligent man. He's a smart man. He has a great career in terms of anti-crime efforts.

Look, many of us have made comments that we've had to walk back throughout our careers, but I don't think his comments help, mainly because I think it feeds into this xenophobic and Islamophobic environment that we're living in. And the president has proven himself, over and over, to not only be a proud American but arguably one of the greatest presidents that this country has produced.

Now having said that, I think that the president has a global vision and that is evidenced by his efforts to reach out to the Muslim community and other communities in terms of bringing people together to push back on extremism.

COSTELLO: Going back to Rudy Giuliani for just a second. Do you think he should apologize?

CARSON: Well, I think -- I think so. I think -- I think Mr. Giuliani is a smart man and he understands political posturing, he understands the effectiveness of rhetoric, and so who knows what his motives are, but it is clear to me that his comments add to an already hostile environment. And I think it exacerbates existing fears and hostilities that are evident right now in this environment.

COSTELLO: Because there are people who say, you know, he's not running for president, he can say whatever he wants to say and it's not harmful.

CARSON: Sure.

COSTELLO: Do you disagree, agree with that?

CARSON: Well, I think his comments are harmful and hurtful. And they don't add value to what we're talking about. I mean, Mayor Giuliani was at the helm of the mayoral seat during 9/11 and I think that he -- he of all people should know that adding fuel to the fire in an environment where our government relies heavily on Muslims who work for our intelligence agencies, Muslims who work in our law enforcement communities, to help with information and to help push back on crime.

And he knows that because he has worked with these communities outside of some of the comments and outside of some of his political strategy throughout the years. He knows better.

COSTELLO: So many of your colleagues say that President Obama should use the phrase Islamic extremism. You serve on the House Intelligence Committee. What's it like working with colleagues who think that the president is absolutely wrong about that?

CARSON: Well, I think I work with brilliant colleagues on both sides of the aisle, from Adam Schiff to Devon Nunez to even Peter King who -- he and I share a great relationship with, to the surprise of many people.

We all have different approaches and different methodologies to ultimately get to the same place, and that's making the world a better -- a better place, a more peaceful place, and making our country safer.

I think there's too much of an emphasis being placed on the president's usage of certain phraseology. The greater point is that these folks do not represent Islam nor do they represent Muslims, and for the president to very wisely walk around trying to validate a group that so desperately seeks validation and seeks attention I think is the right step.

COSTELLO: Congressman Andre Carson of Indiana, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

CARSON: Thank you. What an honor.

COSTELLO: Thank you. I want to dig a little deeper on this with CNN political commentator

Sally Kohn.

And, Sally, welcome.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Nice to see you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Nice to see you, too. Going back to the reaction from the 2016 candidates. We have Bobby Jindal saying the gist of Giuliani's comments are right. Scott Walker refusing to say whether he agrees or disagrees but that Giuliani speaks for himself.

How much of a problem could this create as the presidential campaign ramps up?

KOHN: Massive. I mean, wow. It is incumbent on -- and the Democratic chairwoman -- Democratic Party Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz has called on every potential Republican candidate and every Republican leader to denounce what Giuliani said, and they all should, right? It's incumbent on all of them to say that's ridiculous.

We can disagree with the president, we can even disagree with his direction for this country but to question his fundamental patriotism and whether he is enough like, quote-unquote, us, however we imagine that definition of us to be, is so unbelievably toxic and frankly just doesn't show the kind of leadership that you would expect of anyone in a major political party -- any leader in a political party today.

COSTELLO: Well, but here's the thing, Sally. Rudy Giuliani isn't running for president. You know, he can say anything he wants to say. And secondly, a good number of Republicans -- I mean Republican voters I should say agree with him.

KOHN: Right, but that's the problem, right? That that kind of rhetoric from -- going back to 2008, the sort of the president has this colonial mindset. Is he even American? Is he even -- you know, is he a Christian as he claims to be? All this sort of doubting. Again, not attacking the president for his ideas. Fair game.

But going several steps beyond to then try and attack his very identity, his patriotism, his belongingness in this country, his belongingness as an American, that's dirty. That's ugly. That's the kind of stuff we shouldn't be doing in this country. And, again, you know, Rudy Giuliani does enjoy a position of power in the Republican Party and that kind of rhetoric sets a tone.

COSTELLO: Sally Kohn, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

KOHN: Nice to see you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the suspected road rage killer facing murder charges. And now the plot thickens.

Ana Cabrera following that story for us from Las Vegas.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. There is a 19- year-old suspect in custody this morning. Police are still searching for another person who may have been involved, and now we've learned the victim knew her alleged killer.

I'll explain when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Las Vegas police say they're searching for a second road rage suspect that left a wife and mother dead. Yesterday, police took suspected shooter 19-year-old Erich Nowsch into custody following a dramatic standoff outside of his house. In a bizarre twist, Nowsch lived one block over from the woman he's accused of killing. That woman's husband saw the standoff happening live on television and walked over to confront police and the media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MEYERS: There's the animal, a block away! Are you happy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ana Cabrera has more for you now from Las Vegas. Good morning.

CABRERA: Good morning, Carol.

This investigation is far from over, and as you mention, police are still looking for at least one other person who they believe may have been involved in this incident, but they say they think they have their suspect who fired the fatal shot.

Now, remember this all started a little over a week ago with a mom giving her 15-year-old daughter driving lessons, and as they were returning to their home they got into a confrontation on the road with another driver. It all ended with an exchange of deadly gunfire in front of the victim's home, and now, we've learned that the suspect lived just a block away.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT MEYERS: We know this boy. I couldn't tell you this before.

CABRERA (voice-over): A surprising twist in the arrest of a 19-year- old suspect in the murder of Tammy Meyers, mother of four, killed in an apparent case of road rage. Robert Meyers now says his wife knew her suspected killer.

MEYERS: We knew how bad he was, we didn't know he was this bad.

CABRERA: Eric Nowsch Jr. shown flaunting drugs and money in social media posts now faces multiple felony charges, including murder. One week after 44-year-old Meyers was shot in the head -- a tense standoff with police Thursday afternoon, the arrest just one block from the deadly encounter. Emotions running high as the suspect's mother arrived on scene.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turn your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) phone off.

Then the victim's husband, Robert Meyers, anger and grief boiling over.

MEYERS: You treated my wife like an animal, my son. There's the animal, a block away. Are you happy?

CABRERA: Meyers insists his wife was never an aggressor, while police previously suggested that Tammy Meyers went home dropped off her daughter and picked up her 22-year-old son who was armed, seeking to confront a reckless dryer.

Meyers argues his wife was afraid and instead fled the home trying to hide her car from the known assailant. But she came upon the driver again and shots were exchanged.

CHRIS TOMAINO, LAS VEGAS POLICE: The suspect involved in the killing of Mrs. Meyers is in custody and off the streets of Las Vegas.

CABRERA: As the investigation continues, the Meyers' family mourns the loss of a loving wife, mother and grandmother, who they say once tried to help this troubled young man.

MEYERS: He's probably watching this right now and I know he's got to feel bad, because she was really good to him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Erich Nowsch faces charges of murder, attempted murder and illegal discharge of a firearm in a prohibited area. He'll have his first court appearance on Monday, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Ana Cabrera reporting live from Las Vegas this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: the Pentagon unveils plans to launch a major assault on an ISIS strong hold in Iraq. Up next, how U.S. forces will play a part.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: U.S. and Iraqi forces are making plans to wrestle away a crown jewel from ISIS fighters. The Pentagon making plans to send up to 25,000 Iraqi troops into Mosul. Is seized Iraq's second largest city in June when thousands of government soldiers laid down their arms and fled when threatened by only hundreds of militants.

This new offensive will be the biggest test yet of the American training of Iraqi forces and it comes as Kurdish fighters struggle to hold ground.

CNN's Phil Black talked with one of the commanders in desperate need for reinforcements.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MASROUR BARZANI, CHANCELLOR, KURDISTAN REGION SECURITY COUNCIL: So we have to drive them out of this entire region.

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The head of Kurdistan security council says the Peshmerga have taken back all the ground they can until the new retrained Iraqi army is ready to take the field.

BARZANI: There is some limitations of how far we can go because we don't want to create any political sensitivities with the Arabs, and for the rest of the region, we need cooperation and the Iraqi army to participate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. CNN's Ian Lee is in Cairo, Egypt, this morning.

So, Ian, the Kurds are out gunned. Iraqi forces need U.S. training. Egypt is asking for U.S. weapons.

What's the feeling in the region?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a lot of feeling that the U.S. isn't doing enough to help out all of these three different groups, you have the Peshmerga who are asking for better weaponry.

We saw reports by Phil Black that shows one of their artillery pieces is from World War II. They don't have heavy weaponry, they don't have armor. These are all things they say they're going to need to keep up this fight against ISIS who, as we heard, has U.S. equipment, who has heavy armor and really are fanatics. They are willing to die and push and keep going. They're battle hardened. It's been difficult for the Peshmerga.

You have the Iraqi army asking for more sophisticated weapons. They're going to plan their offensive against Mosul in April and may with tens of thousands of soldiers, but it is to be seen how really battle ready these soldiers are. U.S. troops have trained Iraqi forces before, and as we saw in those ISIS advances, they melted away just for a few hundred militants. Well, ISIS has a lot more in Mosul this time, and this time they're on the defensive. They have time to plan.

And then you go to Egypt. Egypt is very frustrated with the United States, the relations between Cairo and Washington has cooled dramatically ever since the 2013 overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi, the United States has been withholding weapons systems that usually are delivered. Those are F-16s, those are tanks, those are parts for Apache helicopters.

Egypt also wants U.S. support and really international support to go hard against ISIS and Libya. They have called for a lifting of an arms blockade so weapons can go to the internationally recognized Libyan government. They also want a naval blockade to stop weapons go to other militias.

The West and the U.N. seem to be content while trying to achieve a diplomatic effort against Cairo's will. They think if they all come together that's the best way to fight in Libya. You look at the northern Sinai, the other place they're fighting, they have lost hundreds of security personnel there. The weapons systems they want from the U.S., they want to apply them there as well.

So, it has been very frustrating for Cairo as well.

COSTELLO: All right. Ian Lee reporting live from Egypt this morning.

So, let's talk about the strategy and what Ian just told us. Joining me now to discuss CNN political commentator Peter Beinart, and CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

Welcome to both of you.

LT. RICK FRANCONA (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

Colonel, the U.S. military is planning a spring offensive. Iraqi troops will outnumber ISIS fighters by about 12 to 1. But I know, Colonel, you have been to Mosul. This battle involve door-to-door fighting, urban combat.

Explain why this won't be so simple.

FRANCONA: Any time you go into a built up area you have a lot of danger because of the streets and the fact that we've told the ISIS fighters that they've got about two, three months to prepare for this. They're going to set up booby traps, lay down fields of fire. It's going to be very slow-going.

Remember, this is like the marines going into Fallujah a couple years back. It's going to be block by block, street by street down to house by house. And we're not sure the Iraqis are really trained up for this yet. I think they're really pushing the time schedule up.

COSTELLO: Really? Like expound on that. Pushing the time --

FRANCONA: Yes.

COSTELLO: Why? Say more.

FRANCONA: The Iraqi army that existed in 2013 when ISIS came into Mosul doesn't exist anymore. We basically started from scratch. You have to re-officer, reequip, retrain, start at the battalion level, work up to the brigade level. We're not there yet.

And for these guys to be thrown into a real combat situation, urban warfare, is very brutal. They've got to really want to do this and my sense of what I'm hearing from my sources is that they're not ready yet. The most effective units in the Iraqi forces are the Shia militias that are really not part of the Iraqi army structure. The Iraqi army as we know it as constituted just is not ready for this.

COSTELLO: OK. So what the colonel said Peter is pretty disturbing. Do you agree? PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Rick is making a

really important point. The most effective forces who are fighting ISIS are not fighting on behalf of the Iraqi state. They're the Kurds fighting basically for their own de facto country and the Shia militias that on the one hand are more effective and more motivated. On the other hand are alienating the very Sunnis that the Iraqi government has to win over if it's going to woo them away from ISIS.

So the idea that you're going to have motivated, affected forces that are not seen by the local population as Shia dominators. Remember, this is one of the reasons that ISIS was able to move in the first place was because people in the Sunni regions in Iraq became alienated from a Shia-dominated government, I think that's not only a very significant military problem, it's a political problem.

There's obviously political desire here to step up the timetable in response to these terrible, terrible attacks. We have a new more aggressive secretary of defense. But I think -- I hope what Rick is saying is heard in Washington.

COSTELLO: I hope it is too, Rick. But -- so like I'm just -- so do you think that politics is in part driving this rush to take back Mosul, Colonel?