Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

The Road to Jihad for Former Bodybuilder, Law Student; Bill 1380 Passes the House; Niagara Falls Frozen Solid

Aired February 20, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: This is absolutely incredible reporting here. This Egyptian bodybuilder and law student raised in a middle- class neighborhood in Cairo, sent to private school. He was a party boy. He hoped his six pack would lead him to wealth and to girls. Instead, it led him to Syria, on the front lines of jihad fighting with ISIS.

Here's part of his story at "the New York Times."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: When you're browsing the usual is propaganda, RPGs, black flags, mayhem, you might also stumble on this. It is a workout video for jihadis featuring a young man who introduces himself as Islam Yeken (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But it turns out this was not his first exercise video. Before the jihad in Syria, there was the gym in Egypt. Back then, Islam of religious, but his interests were far from extreme.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: We wanted to find out how someone could change so dramatically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It was the voice of Mona El-Naggar. She is with me now. Video journalist for "the New York Times." She is behind this documentary. Told the perspective of this young man's friends and family in Cairo.

So it's so wonderful to have you here to chat with me. I appreciate it. There's so much I wanted to get to. But to your question, you know, you talked to a number of his friends, and it begs the question, well, why did he choose to take this path and not the others. Did you begin to get a sense as to why?

MONA EL-NAGGAR, VIDEO JOURNALIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I got a sense of the complexity really of the issue. I mean, essentially, I mean, it's a number of different factors that sort of come in to play, and some of it is also just the character and personality at the end of the day. So it's very hard to sort of like come up with one specific answer or path or trajectory that really that shoots you on to this like, you know, course to jihad or radicalization.

But there are common themes that sort of came up and these are themes that are common to many of the just average young Egyptian men who are trying to find sort of a balance between the different forces in their lives. Their, you know, and trying to sort of reconcile the importance of religion, that being a part of their identity with the fact that they're young and ambitious --

(CROSSTALK)

EL-NAGGAR: Exactly.

BALDWIN: The revolution. It's all of this.

EL-NAGGAR: All of it.

BALDWIN: And so I want to play, this is sound from one of his friends which I found pretty profound because he's sitting there and essentially wondering why was it his friend and why wasn't it me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And it seems like he really truly does understand it. He really, truly, doesn't now, why it wasn't instead of the other young man.

EL-NAGGAR: I mean, when I approached the story, a lot of people I spoke to were trying to grapple with the issues that I was essentially trying to figure out, as well. You know, his friends, you know, wanted to remain faithful to what they had shared, to you know, the Islamic they knew. And -- but at the same time, they were, you know, perplexed by his decision. I mean, they shared common issues, they discussed their dreams together, but they also drifted. And he went off into this other world that --

BALDWIN: There was the death, right? The friend who died on the motorcycle. So that was perhaps part of the catalyst. But instead of, you know, some of the other young men -- not getting over it-- but moving past it through a couple of weeks, (INAUDIBLE) his name and so he really went inward.

EL-NAGGAR: Correct. And in that moment, you know, I mean, obviously, he reached out to religion. He wanted to feel a sense of direction, he wanted answers. And when he turned to religion, I guess, you know, in many ways he really espoused a more conservative and view of life. And he started to feel less and less comfortable with the, you know, with the society that he was a part of. He also was unable to really sort of strike that balance between everything that he sort of -- his desires and his young ambitions and -- you know, wanting to see women, date, and still sort of fulfill the need and desire to be a good person. And I think that's a huge part of the struggle. A very internal struggle. This is happening amid all this -- this great economic and political turmoil in Egypt, but also in the region. Everyone is flooded with, you know, horrific images everywhere out of Syria.

I mean, so all of these different factors are really sort of moving people in different ways and to different extents and directions. And it's hard to sort of come up with one simple easy answer as to, you know, how --

BALDWIN: There is no one simple (INAUDIBLE) and that is part of the problem in trying to figure out how to stop this, to stop this, you know, power of the propaganda and recruitment that it's ISIS.

I guess just bigger picture question, when you found yourself over there and a lot of our discussions are surround around some of these regions where, you know, these dictators are no longer, I guess, even questioning about LCC (ph) in Egypt and wondering about these vacuums and the lack of direction, therefore the sense of disenfranchisement. And again, there isn't this one common threat. But what did you find when you are over there? Because for these young people, are they lacking direction?

EL-NAGGAR: I mean, you know, this could be true of any young person anywhere in the world. And that is one of the things -- I mean, people sort of struggle with issues of identity everywhere.

BALDWIN: Right.

EL-NAGGAR: So I mean, you know, it's hard to sort of make one generalization. And in many ways what you find, as well, there's so many so many common factors, there is so much commonality the end of the day in terms of what people aspire for. But, you know, that region -- I mean, there is a great sense of alienation among young people. You know, there's a renew sense of alienation essentially. I mean, the revolution happened. There was this like brief, brief moment of like great hope and people thinking and feeling like they're sort of a part of what's happening and starting their own destiny. And when that disappeared even for those who western necessarily very involved, it still really heavily impacted how they saw themselves, and -- and their opportunities in life. And how they sort of, you know, a lot of it is about really essentially wanting some sort of justice, and all these sort of things moving in the same time.

At the same time more and more, the prevailing understanding of religion is more and more conservative, and moderation is hard to find. And, you know, as you kind of get pulled into these different directions.

BALDWIN: Your reporting was so poignant and effective because it puts the face on so much of what we've been talking about. I really appreciate it.

Mona El-Naggar of "the New York Times," come back. I really pressure it. Next here, have you heard about this? You take A.P., American

history. U.S. history class is in jeopardy because some see it as anti-American. The action Oklahoma is taking. Some of these legislatures that could affect its highest performing high schoolers next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Some students and teachers in the state of Oklahoma are fearing for the future of A.P. U.S. history. Why? Because the state education committee just passed this bill, it is bill 1380, that would replace official advanced placement course which allows thousands of high school students each and every year, myself included once a upon a time, to earn critical credit for college with another curriculum. One crafted by Republican state representative Dan Fisher. He says he supports A.P. history, but, here's the but. He says changes are needed after the college course was redesigned the course last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAN FISHER (R), OKLAHOMA: We never would want to do away with the A.P. program. There appears to be a pretty strong leaning about everything that is wrong with America. For instance, there's room to talk about it the black panthers, but not room to talk about Martin Luther King.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We leave the rules aren't that strict and it's teachers in the classroom who decide. Since the bill passed committee, Fisher has heard the outcry. Co-sponsor of the bill says Fisher is now reworking it. But it's not exactly clear yet how.

We did reach out to Representative Fisher multiple times. Would have loved to have had him on myself. Zero success thus far. So, who I do have is a teacher, Rob Powers. He is a teacher and social studies curriculum leader at Massachusetts school. And Emmett McGroarty. He is the director of education at the American principles project whose group was among the first to protest this new A.P. U.S. history course.

So to both of you, welcome.

ROB POWERS, TEACHER: Thank you, Brooke.

EMMETT MCGROARTY, DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION, AMERICAN PRINCIPLES PROJECT: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Emmett, to you first. Just for our viewers to try to understand what it is about the curriculum. Specific examples about this A.P. European curriculum, A.P. American curriculum that, you know, you want removed, tell me what.

MCGROARTY: All right. Well, this is what happened. The college board substituted a five-page chronological list of topics with a 70- plus page framework that goes into detail how the course should be approached. So what you have as a result is like entering a house of mirrors. It distorts our history. It gives short --

BALDWIN: But be specific. How does it distort our history? I'm just trying to understand.

MCGROARTY: Well, it gives short shrift to things like the rise of religious tolerance, pluralistic society. It omits the discussion of, for instance, the development of town meetings in New England which were a cradle of democracy. It has just a brief mention of the declaration of independence, George Washington. It omits Martin Luther King. You go on and on, and at the -- as a result --

BALDWIN: What you're telling me, A.P. American history omits Martin Luther King?

MCGROARTY: Yes, it's not in this framework. And the result is you have a distortion of American history that prints the -- that portrays the American people as motivated by greed and a desire for dominion and control over others as opposed to what was really the -- one of the great driving forces of American history which is the principles in the declaration of independence.

And for instance, those principles really unleashed the abolition movement and really served as a prophet to hold America accountable to its founding principles.

BALDWIN: OK. So, I think I'm hearing and also what I read, it just feels like it's cast more of a negative light on American history, not enough of the founding fathers and the constitution and what was positive.

My question to you, Rob, as a teacher, is I imagine, you know, you want to teach a full picture of American history. What do you make of all of this?

POWERS: Sure. So I think why a lot of teachers really like this redesign that A.P. has created is although it is a lot more substantial page-wise as the original one, it's no longer just a list of facts and dates because that's not really what history is.

History is making meaning, not only historically but also with our connections to today. And this new curriculum provides the space the future have always needed. They finally going to get that space to focus on skills by comparing, trusting, analyzing documents and helping students, and this is most important, develop their own interpretations and analysis of history.

BALDWIN: So, Emmett, I want you to respond to that. And also just curious, if students, if we didn't grow up learning the bad with the good, I also wonder if there would be a fear of just history repeating itself.

MCGROARTY: Well, the beauty of American history I think is our founding principles and the drive to fulfill those founding principles. And I think for instance the issues of slavery and civil rights need to be put in the context of those principles. Those were really the driving force that our great leaders like Frederick Douglas and Martin Luther King and Abraham Lincoln in his Gettysburg address, which by the way omitted from the framework. They relied on those principles to call America to its founding, to fulfill those principles.

And so, what you do when you omit those principles is you're left, the framework leaves us with a depiction of American society that is driven by greed and conflict and hatred. And it omits, for instance, our military history, it's largely ignored and that's a history that's marked not just by bravery but bravery in service of our founding principles. These are stories that need to be told if we are to tell our story accurately.

BALDWIN: You know what, here's the thing. I remember taking A.P. American history. And Rob, I just want to end with you. Because what I remember most about my A.P. American history class was my teacher (INAUDIBLE) in Atlanta, Georgia. And I have to think that so much of this really falls, the onus, ultimately yes, there's the curriculum and you're supposed to go by this, but isn't this really just about the teacher and it's up to the teacher not to teach a slanted view of America? You need the good, you need the bad, you need the ugly.

POWERS: Sure. And I think that's a very valid point. If you're going to give teachers the space to really get into the history beyond the facts, then there's a lot of responsibility on the classroom teacher. That being said, I know in my classroom, especially my government class, I really value that I work very hard in my class for students to be able to develop an informed opinion after looking at everything that goes into an issue and that's a what the A.P. curriculum is trying to do in history.

So if that is what we are trying to do, even conservative teachers I think will appreciate the opportunity to help students see a conservative viewpoint. Just because the Gettysburg address is not in the framework doesn't mean it won't be taught. It's a pretty seminal document. So it's more of a big picture.

BALDWIN: OK. And like I said, I think the State Representative Fisher has, you know, heard the criticism. They are looking at the bill again. We will see where it goes.

Emmett McGroarty, thank you. Rob Powers, thank you very much. And thank you for being a teacher.

Let's move on to an incredible sight. This is not something you see like ever, Niagara falls frozen. How cold is it in the northeast? We will take you live to this frozen tundra coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: CNN heroes is recognizing a young man who is trying to change the world at 13 years of age. Here's his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSHUA WILLIAMS, CNN HERO: Is everybody here signed in?

When I was four-and-a-half years old, I found my purpose in life.

We're going to help around 100 families. We're going to give them food.

I look for a foundation that would accept somebody my age. I didn't find any. So I came up with the idea of Joshua's Heart Foundation.

Hey, you guys ready?

Joshua's Heart Foundation has no age limit. As long as you are able to pick something up, just come out and help us make a difference.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels really good to be here. (INAUDIBLE).

WILLIAMS: Since I started, I have given out over 650,000 tons of food to over 30,000 individuals. We are going to do one tuna.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One tuna?

WILLIAMS: One tuna. We need enough for everybody. Right now we have over 1200 youth volunteers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Perfect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm grateful to know there's still young people that care for elder people.

WILLIAMS: It's very important to develop connections and relationships with these people that we're helping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless you, you know. God bless you and thank you.

WILLIAMS: If you want to make a difference, I have three bits of advice for you. One, use your passion and purpose in life to help make a change in the community. Two, get your friends to help. And three, never give up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Yes. Love these stories. To nominate someone for CNN heroes, check out CNNheroes.com.

And now this, this huge swath of America caught in a deep freeze. Thirty-five million Americans still in the grips of wind chill warnings or advisories. In fact, see the right side of the screen? Niagara falls even has now frozen solid.

Ryan Young who I hear is from Miami. Isn't this fun for you, Ryan Young, now in the thick of this. From my perch it looks beautiful. From yours, you tell me.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, it looks fantastic. What an assignment. I love this so far. It's hard to keep the face from not falling off but hey, why not.

Look. Just go over there. That's the American side and it looks like it's frozen. The water is actually pushing through on that side. We are told more than 20 million gallons kind of flows through this area. If you look over the edge here, you can also see the large pieces of ice and these actually get to ten stories high. We have to show you this. The breathtaking moment where the falls coming over the edge. It is awesome to stay here all day and watch people from all around the world come here to take a look because it some breathtaking sites. In fact we are told tourism is on the way up because so many people want to come see this. All right, the pictures going viral. It's just something that you kind of got to see, enjoy, and it does put a smile on your face despite how cold it is.

BALDWIN: Appreciate the positivity here, Ryan Young, appreciate you. Thank you so much, it is gorgeous. I'm Brooke Baldwin, have a wonderful weekend, but don't go anywhere. "The Lead" with Jake Tapper starts now.