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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Terrorists Target Malls; Search for Three British Teen Girls Suspected Of Trying To Join ISIS; Developments In The Aaron Hernandez Trial

Aired February 23, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Why do terrorists have the Mall of America in their crosshairs and how worried should Homeland Security and shoppers be?

Today's focus at the Aaron Hernandez trial, 3:00 a.m. text messages the victim sent to his sister right before he was murdered. We can show you the messages, but, guess what? Not if you're a juror. You'll hear about them but not really.

Speaking of jurors, strangely enough, the ones at the "American Sniper" murder trial got to watch the Oscars last night to see how the sniper movie actually did. They're also getting a break from court today courtesy of a Texas ice storm.

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

So if you heard this from the man in charge of the country's Homeland Security, what would you do?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I would say that if anyone is planning to go to the Mall of America today, they've got to be particularly careful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Careful. That's Jeh Johnson on "STATE OF THE UNION" here on CNN after the release of a brand new propaganda video calling on, yes, attacks on malls in the United States and Canada and also Britain. But officials are stressing there's really no actual threat, no specific pinpointed threat at this moment.

The video is from Somalia based al Shabaab. The same group that attacked a mall in Nairobi, Kenya, in 2013 and that deadly attack killed more than 60 people. Nick Valencia is at the Mall of America.

So, this is sort of a mixed message, Nick, if you could sort this out. Should we be careful or is there no credible threat? What is the message here?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly that video was chilling and frightening and has made some in this community very nervous about showing up at the Mall of America. But we should emphasize that there is no credible, ongoing threat according the Department of Homeland Security.

The mall has also put out a statement responding to that video posted online over the weekend by al Shabaab saying that they're taking extra security measures. Some that might be visible to shoppers, some that might not. In the hours that we've been out here, we've seen just one police car in the area that we're at, so we can't really physically see anything different.

The shoppers we have spoken to have some mixed reactions. I spoke to one man and his wife earlier visiting from Wisconsin and I asked them, what's your reaction about this al Shabaab video?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: What do you think about the threat?

JOHN HARTSOUGH, MILWAUKEE VISITING SHOPPER: Just another threat that probably won't lead to anything. It's not going to change the way I do things or anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Ashleigh, perhaps the broader concern in this area is within the Somalia community. I spoke this past weekend with some Somali leaders. One specifically who said that this video was shocking, that the community is still traumatized after a Minneapolis area person went over and participated in that West Gate Mall attack in Nairobi, Kenya, in 2013. He was saying that his fear and his concern is that perhaps this video, which was appealing and alluring to al Shabaab sympathizers, may inspire some of the more venerable youth, the fatherless youth in the improvised areas of the Somali community in Minneapolis and beyond. That is also the concern of federal officials. But, again, no credible ongoing threat right now that we know of.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Look, I've been scanning as many wires as I can find, Nick, for any sort of response from the leaders of that extraordinarily large Somali community where you are. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but the largest Somali community in the United States is right where you are. And I haven't seen a whole lot. That's not to suggest that there isn't some kind of response. So, two things. Number one, are the Somali community members there doing anything about this, saying anything about this or laying low? And, number two, I really can't see any visible signs behind you. That's not to suggest that they're not there.

VALENCIA: Sure. Sure. Well, I tried to reach out again to those representatives this morning and I have not heard back. But we heard from local news reports that members of the Somali community were meeting as late as last night to talk about this issue and how it's impacting them. Listen, you know, when I spoke to this one leader in Minnesota, he was adamant that these are ruthless people that do not speak for the majority of Somalis in this community and beyond. He was disgusted with the video and really thinks, as you mentioned, that this is just really propaganda in trying to inspire these lone wolf types out there.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Nick Valencia, thank you for that.

So the FBI says no credible threat. But you should know that last year the FBI did team up with various malls, testing the readiness of the SWAT teams by staging fake attacks at malls when they were closed. Joining me is Michael Weiss, who is the co-author of "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror."

So, first of all, it's odd that there is this pronouncement of the targets. Typically terrorists don't tell you exactly where they're going to strike. Does that make this less credible or more credible?

MICHAEL WEISS, CO-AUTHOR, "ISIS: INSIDE THE ARMY OF TERROR": Well, look, I think, no, it makes it less credible. Terrorists have become the new sub editors of the western news cycle. They are looking to elicit emotional responses. They are looking for coverage. They are looking for this sort of sense of menace and gloom that something is about to go off.

One of the other components of this, al Shabaab is the al Qaeda franchise in Somalia. Al Qaeda is now engaged in a very fierce campaign of -- or competition, I should say, with ISIS for exactly this, stealing each other's thunder as the going jihadist organization on the planet. ISIS came out recently with a manual instructing French jihadis to go and blow things off - blow things up in France.

So here you have this game of one-upmanship being playing out on the streets of the United States and Europe. But, yes, I mean saying we're going to hit this particular mall, all that does is increase security around the mall, so it makes it less likely that something like that is going to happen.

BANFIELD: And for people out there who are absolutely terrified by what they saw happen in Nairobi, over 60 people dead, something like 50 hours before there was really any kind of pushback from police -

WEISS: Right.

BANFIELD: Or storming of the mall and rescue of those who were bleeding and dying well before the police got in there, that's not the way it works in America.

WEISS: Right.

BANFIELD: I mean, at least can Americans be secure that that kind of thing can't really happen here?

WEISS: Well, no. I mean, unfortunately, look, the inspiration to do so-called lone wolf attacks, I mean terrorism is not about cells and networks setting up shop anymore. It can be that, but in the United States what these groups are looking to do is essentially get somebody that's sympathetic to their ideology, getting them on Skype or g-chat (ph) or cell phones even, if they're stupid enough to use cellphones, and say, look, staying where you are and you can build a fertilizer bomb in your basement, we'll show you how, or even better yet, this is a country where you have access to automatic weapons. Why don't you go shoot up a school or shoot up a mall or do something of that sort.

But, again, the telegraphing of the target, I mean, you know, it's no coincidence this is in Minnesota, which as your correspondent pointed out, has the most sizeable Somali disparate (ph) community in the United States. It's trying to inject fear. It's trying to make everybody on edge. But I think that shopper that they - that you interviewed saying, this is not changing anything that I'm doing, that's exactly the right response.

BANFIELD: It's what the Israelis have been saying for years, we don't change anything despite living with terror.

WEISS: (INAUDIBLE). a guy makes a video and all of a sudden everyone's talking about, you know, the next imminent terror attack in the United States.

BANFIELD: Exactly what they're looking for.

WEISS: Exactly.

BANFIELD: All right, Michael Weiss, thanks for being here. Appreciate it.

WEISS: Sure.

BANFIELD: The frantic search for three teen British girls who apparently ran away from home but for a very different reason than you've heard before. This time they want to join ISIS. Is there any hope of stopping them in Turkey before they cross into Syria where they may never be able to come back?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The president of Egypt is urging the Arab world to unite against ISIS, prompting one retired U.S. military command to say, quote, "it's about time." Airstrikes have killed almost 1,500 ISIS fighters over the past five months, that according to a Syrian opposition group, but it's not been enough to slow the jihadists advance throughout the region.

With ISIS now in neighboring Libya, President El-Sisis of Egypt has called for a, quote, "unified Arab force" to fight the extremists. CNN military analyst Spider Marks says it was absolutely the right first step in stopping ISIS. The fight on the ground is perilous. An ISIS video released on Saturday purportedly showed captured Kurdish fighters being paraded in cages through Iraq, their fates are currently unknown.

I want to take you to Turkey, not far away, where authorities are frantically hunting for three younger girls, they're runaway teens from Britain, left their families and there they are on the run. British police are fearing that the girls, 15 and 16 years old, are trying to get to Syria, possibly to join ISIS as wives. Somehow, the three friends slipped out of London last week on a flight to Istanbul. Where they are now though is not clear. But if they are still in Turkey, the police are hoping to find them before they can get into neighboring Syria. The father of one of the girls says he had absolutely no clue what his daughter was planning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before Tuesday, had she started showing an interest in Syria? Was she talking a lot about humanitarian problems in Syria?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all. Not at all. She was doing her schoolwork because she's taking GCSC (ph) this year. There's no sign to suspect her at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And had she shown an interest in politics and international affairs? Was she - did she talk much about the problems in the Middle East?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not with us. Maybe with her friends. We don't know really.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: CNN's Atika Shubert is live now in London.

So here are two questions that don't seem to measure up. Number one, how do three girls that young just get on these international flights and head off by themselves without some contact with parents or some suspicions? And, number two, didn't one of them leave a bit of a digital trail behind that suggests that someone should have raised a flag about who she was communicating with?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was definitely an online presence by these girls that should have raised several red flags. One of them is that - one of them apparently had - was following about 70 ISIS follower accounts. Now, that is a lot for anybody, but particularly a 16-year-old girl. Another one had about 10,000 followers of similar ISIS mindsets. And they were also in communication with a woman named Axa Mahmanmun (ph). She's a 19-year- old girl from Glasgow who traveled to Syria last year and has been an active recruiter for ISIS. So these are all red flags that they were in the sort of ISIS networks. But it's something the parents may not have been aware of because they're simply not aware of the online presence that these girls have or what they're doing on Twitter or other social media.

The police may have been able to flag this up. But again, there are thousands of people on these kinds of online accounts. The one thing that may have stopped them from going is that in December of last year, one of their classmates left for Syria, the police actually spoke to these girls, interviewing them, cautioning them about going. Right then should have been the red flag that they may be at risk for following in their friend's footsteps and going into Syria.

BANFIELD: Atika Shubert live for us in London. Keep us posed on those girls and their fate as well. Thank you for that.

We are also hearing today from the parents of that slain ISIS hostage, Kayla Mueller. It's the first time that they've spoken publicly since they learned two weeks ago that their daughter died while in ISIS custody after being kidnapped. Kayla Mueller was abducted in Syria in 2013 while helping refugees. Her father took special aim at the United States policy of not paying ransom to terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARL MUELLER, FATHER OF KAYLA MUELLER: We understand the policy about not paying ransom. But on the other hand, any parents out there would understand that you would want anything and everything done to bring your child home. And we tried. And we asked. But they put policy in front of American citizens' lives. And it didn't get changed. So that's something they're going to work on. I'm sure that's in the works.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel like our government did enough to help you?

MARSHA MUELLER, KAYLA MUELLER'S MOTHER: I think they wanted to, but I think, again, it's the policy and I don't think anyone had any idea this group would be as powerful as they were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Kayla's dad says he believes that ISIS was willing to release Kayla if the family had been able to raise $6.2 million. They said that they could not.

Moments before he was murdered, Odin Lloyd wanted his sister to know who he was with so he texted her three letters, NFL. Presumably it may stand for Aaron Hernandez. But why is the jury in his murder trial not allowed to hear that at what exactly are they going to hear because the text message issue is coming.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A win, I suppose you could say of sots, for the prosecution in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial. It's really not as much as they had hoped to get, but it's a little bit. And every little bit counts. This morning the judge ruled that the victim in the case, Odin Lloyd, his sister is allowed to testify that she was indeed texting with her brother in the wee hours of June 17th, 2013. In fact, just minutes before the prosecution say Odin Lloyd had a gun put to him over and over again, but she's not allowed to testify about what's in the text.

Think about it. If you're a juror, don't you want to know? The jury is not going to know, but we do have the information for you. They're not allowed to watch television, so here you go. Not allowed to watch news conference anyway. At 3:07 a.m., Odin Lloyd texts, "you saw who I'm with." And then at 3:11 a.m. he - he doesn't get any response and he texts again and he says, "hello." At 3:19 a.m., Odin Lloyd's sister texts back, "my phone was dead. Who was that?" Then at 3:22 a.m. this response from Lloyd, "NFL." And the last text at 3:23, quote, "just so you know."

NFL, we can only presume, meaning Aaron Hernandez, because effectively there's a lot of evidence pairing the two at exactly that time. For the legal view on what this means and why the jury isn't allowed to see those messages, Joey Jackson and Midwin Charles.

So here's the thing. You are one of those 12 or I don't even know how many we're at now, 15 or so in this trial after many of the alternates have left. But you're hearing questions about what time did you receive a text? You were texting? Thank you, ma'am, you're free to go. What's the first question you have if you're the juror when you're hearing about texts but not what the texts are?

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think the first question, if I were sitting on that jury would be, why? Why can't I hear the context of that text. But secondly my question would be, or what I would think is, these texts came in at that time for a particular reason. And we're talking about the person who is now deceased. So why would he send those texts to his sister, a family member? Was he in fear for his life? Did he know what was about to happen to him? So those are the questions that I think the jury is going to be asking themselves as they hear this.

BANFIELD: I tell you, if I were a juror, I'd just be mad.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: That presents a problem.

BANFIELD: I would just be mad. And, Joey, for that reason, this is just such tender territory.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: But this judge is going to give a bit of an admonishment to the jury. It's probably the wrong word, but you're the professional, I'll let you correct me.

JACKSON: Yes. No, it's an admonishment. Absolutely right.

BANFIELD: OK. So - so the judge is going so say to the jury, and I'm going to paraphrase, hey, I know you probably wanted that lawyer to ask what was in, but we're not allowing that.

CHARLES: Right.

JACKSON: Right.

BANFIELD: Is going to be -- does that do the trick? Does that clear things up and make the jury feel better about this?

JACKSON: It's difficult because certainly the jurors will abide by the judge's instructions. But inquiring minds always want to know. And the reality is, is that, Ashleigh, initially they weren't, the judge was not going to allow reference to the text for this very reason, what was in the text, what were they saying, what was the base of the communication? Was Odin Lloyd scared? Was he not? Was he happy to be with them? Was - did something go bad? So you never want the jury to be thinking all these things. You just want them to concentrate on the facts as they exist in that courtroom.

Now, remember this, in addition to only being asked, did you text your brother, did your brother text you, she cannot discuss the emotion involved, she cannot discuss her reaction of the text, if any that she has.

BANFIELD: Like you -- they're not even allowed to say, and after you read that text, what did you do next?

CHARLES: What did you do?

JACKSON: Exactly. Yes.

BANFIELD: Or, how did you feel? They're not allowed to ask anything like that, right?

JACKSON: Very limited.

CHARLES: Nope.

BANFIELD: It's so managed.

CHARLES: It's very limited. It's very limited.

BANFIELD: So, ultimately, who pays the price in all of this, the prosecution or the defense? Who's going to be the loser on the end of this kind of interaction? By the way, it's coming soon.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: We thought it was going to be today that Shikila (ph) Thibou is going to take the stand and do all of this. It's maybe not going to be today.

CHARLES: Right.

BANFIELD: But when it does come, it's going to be a big moment. But who's going to suffer? What do you think, Midwin? You've got that look on your face.

CHARLES: You know, it's one of those things where, whenever there are a lot of questions to be asked from the jury or when the jury's thinking about a lot of questions, the defense usually wins because you want to have a lot of questions. You want to interject. Now, from a prosecution perspective, you want to tell the jury exactly what it is. Here are the facts. I don't want you to extrapolate from that. I don't want you to guess. But whenever you have a jury guessing, asking questions, it opens the door to reasonable doubt.

JACKSON: Well, here -

BANFIELD: There's that pesky thing, you know, and -

JACKSON: Reasonable doubt.

BANFIELD: Reasonable doubt. And what's reasonable? JACKSON: But here's the - here's the other spin on that, OK. These text messages are not good for the defense for the following reasons. They are going to put additional witnesses on that triangulate, and use all these fancy terms, for pointing out exactly where Odin Lloyd was. And then they'll put on other witnesses to point out exactly where Hernandez was.

CHARLES: Where Hernandez was.

JACKSON: And what will that do? It will put them together. To the extent that Odin Lloyd was picked up by Mr. Hernandez at 2:30 and there are these texts. And the last one is at 3:23. And then we don't hear anything more, anything else from Odin Lloyd again. What does that represent to you? That he was alive, now he's not, and there's that ultima (ph) that he doesn't come out of. And that's a problem, I think, for the defense.

BANFIELD: And that all of a sudden he was dead.

CHARLES: And all you need for a jury to do is, again, start to put two and two and two together and they arrive at a conclusion.

BANFIELD: Right.

JACKSON: Equals four, Midwin, right?

CHARLES: There you go, four, six and eight.

JACKSON: Two and two.

BANFIELD: Two and two and two.

CHARLES: Two and two and two and two. Four, six and eight and ten.

JACKSON: Right.

BANFIELD: Maybe I could have passed the bar. Hold on.

Joey and Midwin, thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ash.

BANFIELD: I don't want you to go too far, though, I've got a couple of other cases that you're going to be fascinated with and probably some great perspective on as well.

So the man charged with murder in that so-called road rage shooting in Las Vegas is facing down a judge today. So there's a lot of drama when this happens. Just take a look at his face. Yes, there's a lot of people who are not too happy in that courtroom either. This is a tragic case that wasn't at all what it first appeared to be. So, a bit of a mystery here. We're going to try and solve it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Checking top stories now. All eyes on the Bloomington, Minnesota, area, home of the Mall of America, after the release of a video from the terror group al Shabaab that calls for attacks on that mall and other malls in Canada and Britain. Homeland Security officials are telling Americans to be vigilant. But they stress the FBI has found no credible threat. Al Shabaab is the same group that carried out an attack at that mall in Nairobi, Kenya, back in 2013 that killed more than 60 people.

Four days and counting until the Department of Homeland Security is due to run out of money. Congress has been holding up the funding to try to force a repeal of President Obama's