Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Homeland Security To Run Out Of Funds In Four Days; Superbug Might Be On East Coast Now; 70 Million Americans To Be Affected By New Round Of Winter Weather; "Road Rage" Case Hits Vegas Courtroom Today; Jurors In "American Sniper" Trial Allowed To Watch Oscars Last Night; Nasty Spat Between Bobbi Kristina Brown's Boyfriend And Family Worsens; Obama Administration In Federal Court Today Seeking To Reinstate The President's Executive Order On Immigration

Aired February 23, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Four days and counting until the Department of Homeland Security is due to run out of money. Congress that's been holding up the funding to try to force the repeal of President Obama's Executive Orders on Immigration reform, two different issues, very much not jiving (ph).

Most of the vast department's employees are considered critical and would stay on the job regardless; they just wouldn't be getting paychec, until the impact is actually over.

Suppose these are the superbug, the so called superbug that is linked in part for killing two people in California is now to be in North Carolina. A health official says that 18 people there have been diagnosed with the antibiotic-resistant bacteria known as CRE and one of then have died. It is not clear how any of them actually contracted it.

Close to 70 million Americans affected by another round of winter weather, wind chill advisories, watches and warning in effect for 17 states. More than 1,400 flight in and out of the United State has been canceled the majority out of Dallas.

The young Las Vegas man accused of gunning down a woman in what may have been a protractive case of road rage ended up appearing in a courtroom today. We have a picture to prove it, Erich Milton Nowsch is facing charges of murder, attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon. My CNN colleague Sara Sidner joining me now with details.

So, hard to look at that picture, he just looks like a kid and ultimately he's 19 which means, you're no kid in the eyes of the law. Can you break down a very confusing scenario, and tell me effectively what happened between these people?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's the deal, and we don't know Erich Nowsch's side, we have not been able to talk to his attorney for long but we plan to do that later on today. What we do know is that he had a preliminary hearing today in a case that initially everyone thought was a simple case of road rage that turned deadly between him and Tammy Meyers, a mother of four here in Las Vegas.

Initially, she was driving her daughter around her family said, to give her a lesson about driving, there were some sort of traffic incident between her and some people in a car that Nowsch was in, and then eventually he followed her home shot and killed her, but not before a second confrontation between Mrs. Meyers, her son who was armed and the defendant Nowsch, who police have said or at least the police report has said initially shot at Tammy Meyers, who then fled home, and when she got home, he ended up following her with whoever else was in that car with him, shooting and killing her, hitting her in the head.

It is a very confusing case, the district attorney today made at very clear this is not as he put it a run of the mill case, a lot of folks thought it was initially, there are definitely a lot of details that we don't yet know, when we do, want to here the defendent side of the story. We also learned something else Ashleigh, we learned that Erich Nowsch, was not the driver of that car, initially, police looking for the driver, he was a passenger according to the district attorney. Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Wow, OK, well then that will mean that there are additional witnesses, real witnesses that saw, heard and perhaps could be subpoenaed and be brought in and maybe there's a lot more information that's on paper before we even know about it.

Sara Sidner keep an eye on that for us if you would. Thank you for that.

Jurors are supposed to avoid all news and media and things that are actually maybe relating to the cases they're on, right?

Why do you suppose then that jurors who are actually at the American Sniper murder trial were allowed to watch the Oscars last night where American Sniper was featured prominently? So they're also getting a day off and closing arguments are very close. The Legal View on all of this right around the corner.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You know this should have been the day that the prosecution is wrapping up its rebuttal case in that so called American Sniper Murder Trial in Texas. We might have even heard the closing arguments today as well, amazingly, how fast it's been going, but the weather had something else in store, a winter storm in Texas of all places drawing down on that -- look at these pictures, you do not see that in Texas often trust me, lived there for four years.

Other states as well also suffering with this weather, the trial is on hold at least until tomorrow but that is not to say that there're is not something new that happened. And it happened maybe at the Oscars, I know it's strange but Taya Kyle, the widow of the real American Sniper Chris Kyle was actually at the Oscars, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think though he would think all the nominations, best picture, 300 million at the back office.

TAYA KYLE: I know. You know what, he would be absolutely blown away, and he would be his usual humble self, laugh at himself, probably make fun of it in some ways but deep down he would be really, really happy that so much healing is happening for couples who are healing with this movie and opening a dialogue. It's something he would be proud of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, American Sniper, the movie went 146 last night, its (inaudible) Oscar came for Best Sound Editing. And here's the strange part, jurors in the real trial, the ongoing trial Chris Kyle's killer or his -- well his alleged murderer they say might actually know that because they were not told by this judge that they couldn't watch the Academy Awards.

They're told they can't watch this show if we're talking about the case that they could watch the Academy Awards. So, the lawyers know why and what effect it might have, Paul Callan, Midwin Charles here. Paul I'll start with you.

A bit weird that they were allowed to watch that interview and watched that woman but nothing else, why would that a problem?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: More than a bit weird, I think utterly bizarre. Normally, judges say, "Don't watch anything that has anything to do with the case", and here he had to know that American Sniper was going to be a major item on the agenda and that Kyle would be portrayed as very, very sympathetic in the movie so to allow the jury to watch it, I just think was surprising.

BANFIELD: So, let me move on to some of the really meaty things that are going on right now because this case is coming to a close so much faster than many of us thought. One thing that was really incredible was when the first expert for the defense came out and said, "Look, this guy is off his rocker," he testified so cleanly and clearly to the issues of case that he didn't know right from wrong.

But then comes the rebuttal witness from the prosecution and say, "Oh yeah, he saw it on Seinfeld." The issue is, isn't possible that a Seinfeld episode that talked about half men and half pig and all the craziness that apparently is involved in this trial, might actually not have aired in the time that he was in the jail, Midwin? Is it possible that they could have made a mistake about suggesting he learned that from Seinfeld.

MIDWIN CHARLES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's possible, but listen the prosecutor is going to do what it is that they have to do, they have to put on someone to counter this particular statement that the believes that people were half animal, half human or what have you

That's the way it is when you're dealing with this kind of criminal trials, when someone has put forcibly that they are not guilty by reason of insanity, this is the sort of, you know, back and forth that happens when you put on the experts call a dueling of the experts and it's what that -- they are supposed to do as prosecutors --

BANFIELD: Well I love the battle of the experts. I've always wondered how a juror who might be a mechanic or a hair dresser is supposed to look at two certified psychiatrists to say opposing messages about one person that they both supposedly analyzed.

But Paul Callan we have both watched this happened before in Andrea Yates in particular where someone got up on the stand and said, "Andrea picked this up from a T.V. show, "and that T.V. show had not yet aired. And they actually declared a mistrial after that she's tried a second time.

In this case, would you not be going to station managers and cable providers in this community that provide the signal to the jail and say, tell me if you programmed that episode of Seinfeld that talked about pig people, half pig, half people? And if it didn't air, done.

CALLAN: Yeah. You want to know something, it did air. And I'll tell you why it aired, because every Seinfeld episode has aired not only once but about a thousand times. So the pig episode has been on many, many times --

BANFIED: They claim he thought while in the jail awaiting trial.

CALLAN: That's a different matter.

BANFIELD: Now you specify a period of time to search.

CALLAN: That's important. That's important and they can prove it didn't air then but of course then the prosecutor would just say, well he saw it in other time. I mean, I think the more important thing though is that the hall defense in the cases is focused on that and the prosecutor's answer is he knows -- he uses this and invokes this which shows he planned the insanity defense and he constantly talked about knowing it was wrong when he did and Texas --

BANFIELD: OK.

CALLAN: -- know its wrong, you're not insane.

BANFIELD: So here's -- and there's a big question --

CHARLES: -- biggest problems.

BANFIELD: Here's the biggest question because there have been many cases where they've said the person was in an episode when here she killed and did not know right from wrong and snapped out of it afterwards and knew right from wrong.

So, you can be insane for an instant. Can a jury swallow that?

CHARLES: I don't think a jury can. I really don't think the jury -- listen, I think that they've done a masterful job, the defense, in showing that this guy has a mental illness. It's not anything that I think anyone can doubt. He has a mental illness, but how severe is that mental illness. Is it the type of mental illness that would allow him to sort of suspend reality to that brief moment in time and then all of a sudden, you know, have a lucid moment where he knows exactly what he did was wrong or not. And I think the jury is going to have a very difficult time believing that.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Where you don't get other options other than does he know right from wrong and if not ouch you go to the side door, you know, not the back door and we all know it's really not the back door and that's a conversation for tomorrow, the back door of the court room where so many jurors think if they check not guilty, the defendant gets out free. Get out of jail which is so not true and I wish more judges were able to tell the jurors that, but --

CALLAN: It's prohibited in Texas.

BANFIELD: Prohibited?

CALLAN: You can't tell the jury anything about it.

BANFIELD: It's prohibited pretty much everywhere I thought.

CALLAN: Yeah. Well, it varies some states. In Texas its clearly --

BANFIELD: Conversation (inaudible)

CALLAN: Yeah.

CHARLES: Both professors.

BANFIELD: All right. Thank you both. I do appreciate it. A couple more things for you to check on in a moment. This is a weird one.

By the way, for tonight you got to check this out tonight. The American Sniper Chris Kyle, the special that we've got, The Story of the American Sniper, 9 p.m. Eastern tonight right here on CNN. So make sure you check that out because we are coming to a close very quickly on this case.

So it's just saying this is a very strange story. We've all been wondering about Bobbi Kristina, how she's doing and particularly her relationship with the guy she called her husband and he's not, the guy on her right. So, now the issue is the fight between Bobbi Kristina Brown's family and that boyfriend as she fights for life. He wants to see her, they say no. And they now are specifying why they won't let him near her. You'll hear it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: As Whitney Houston's daughter, Bobbi Kristina Brown, is fighting for her life in a hospital, a very nasty spat has developed between her boyfriend and her family.

In social media post, Nick Gordon, that's the boyfriend who she said was her husband at one point has been prevented from visiting her, she says. But the family says that he's been given every opportunity provided one thing, that he comply with their terms.

And here's part of the latest statement from Bobbi Brown through his lawyers, "Due to Mr. Gordon's failure to place in tangible form his understanding of the events that led to the hospitalization of Bobbi Kristina, there is no reason for any additional discussion with him. We are only concerned with individuals that can help Bobbi Kristina and bring resolution to this investigation. Obviously Mr. Gordon is not as desperate to visit Bobbi Kristina as he wants the world to believe."

I want to bring back HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson and ___

Those are words that I call ouch publicly. I don't know if it's going to effect any kind of an investigation. But Midwin it's the first time we sort of heard from anybody close to this case that maybe there's a problem and maybe not everybody who needs to be talking is talking.

Female: Yeah. And well, two things you can tell from that statement. One, this guy clearly is not her husband. If he was he would have been able to see her already. He would have a legal right to do so. Two, the family blames him. The family believes that he may have had something to do with how it is she is now and that's abundantly clear from that statement.

BANFIELD: So let's just say, you know, for the sake of argument here that Bobbi Brown does not know everything that the police are up to or everything that the police have been able to find out in their investigation thus far. Is it fair to be saying something like this or is ti defamatory to Nick Gordon if in fact this young man has been speaking to police forthright and (inaudible).

JOEY JACKSON, LEGAL ANALYST: Well, here's the reality, forgetting about what he may or may not say -- be saying to the police, they, that is the family, all right, Bobbi Brown wants him to speak to his family and their lawyers about what you know and when you knew it.

And so, nothing defamatory. Remember this defamation, false statements of fact that impugn your character. What they're saying is, you have -- you want to see Bobbi Kristina, absolutely you can. But the reality is you tell me --

BANFIELD: Obviously Mr. Gordon's not as desperate to visit Bobbi Kristina as he wants that --

JACKSON: That's an opinion. But that's an opinion, and opinion certainly are things that are protected if you make a factual false statement, Ashleigh you run into problems but their point of view that is the family is tell me exactly what you know, reduce it to writing, where were you, where was she --

BANFIELD: Well how do they know, how did they know -- listen just due to Mr. Gordon's failure to place in tangible form his understanding of the event.

JACKSON: Tell me what you know and you can see Bobbi Kristina. You don't tell me you will be excluded because we want to resolve this unlike any caring family they want to get to the hot of what occurred to their precious little one. You don't want to aid this issue then you know what you could seat out of here, you're not part of solution, you are part of the problem. So set the --

CHARLES: So let's remember the backdrop in all of this too is that they never really liked him. There is history there with respect to the relationship between the family and Gordon --

BANFIELD: I thought at one point they loved him so much. They took him in I mean, it sounds weird.

CHARLES: That was when Whitney Houston was alive

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CHARLES: Since she died it hasn't been that way and so I think that that's really what you have going on here is they never really like him. Remember, one of the family members has a protective order against him.

So, you're not talking about the Brady Bunch here. They clearly have their issues and they are trying to resolve them and he is the last person to know exactly what happen to her so that's what they're indicating.

BANFIELD: So I just want to do one quick thing if I can I want to read a statement that Nick Gordon has released, if I can. "Bobby Brown has consistently prohibited next who Bobbi Kristina would want by her side for being there. In an effort to do all he can to visit, Nick has repeatedly offered to meet with Mr. Brown privately to discuss his request in person rather than through lawyers. Those offers have also been rejected. We hope Mr. Brown has a change of heart and that comes from the attorneys representing Nick Gordon."

So this sound like a pretty ugly family -- family --

CHARLES: And it's sad.

BANFIELD: Very sad.

CHARLES: It's really sad.

BANFIELD: I think what I'm more concerned with though is what the police have and what they'd been able to find out in this investigation because that young lady is still seating in a hospital bed.

JACKSON: God bless her, Ashleigh.

BANIELD: God bless her and it's a tragic story just to know every way you look at it.

Thank you both, Joey Jackson and Midwin Charles always good to see you. Thank you.

CHARLES: Good to see you too.

BANFIELD: President Obama get a little angry well through his guy. They're at a core battle today over that executive order on immigration and the funny thing is they're going to a judge, to ask that judge to stop with the judge to seat.

I'll explain in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The Obama Administration was in federal court again today seeking to reinstate the President's executive order that would allow about 5 million undocumented immigrants to avoid being deported. The federal judge in Texas decided last week to block that program. CNN justice reporter Evan Perez joins me now from Washington.

So the cool part about all of this if you're legally geeky, like you and me, is that that effectively the administration is going back to the same judge to say, "Could you just freeze everything that you just did while we appeal what you just did." How likely is that to happen, Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's very unlikely to happen, Ashleigh, and that's one reason why they are trying to see if they could speed up the clock a little bit.

Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, was just addressing this very hour with reporters and one of the things he is saying is that, you know, according to the administration this judge put his injunction that was too broad it was a too broad of an injunction his -- the administration is saying that, you know, if you want to put an injunction, OK then we can stop preparing these types of measures in Texas but let us go ahead with the President's immigration order in the rest of the country.

And if that argument fails, Ashleigh they also have a couple others including that this is all about national security here is the -- a little script of what they are arguing in this stay request.

A stay pending appeal us necessary to ensure that the Department of Homeland Security is able to most effectively protect national security, public safety, and the integrity of that boarder. Ashleigh if this doesn't work with Judge Andrew Hanen by this -- by Wednesday the administration says that they're going to go to the fit circuit in New Orleans which as you know is one of the more conservative appeals courts in the country.

BANFIELD: Well, it's just talking party time now my goodness. Let me get down to (inaudible) tax here. What happens, do they start loading up busses right now and just deporting people on mass while there's legal challenge is actually questioned or like what happens right now while the injunctions is in effect if it doesn't actually get state.

PEREZ: Well it just got --

BANFIELD: Do the deportations continue? PEREZ: Well, the deportations continue with status quo and here's what really is the problem for the administration today. President Obama's term ends next year and so now we have a ticking clock problem, right, if this didn't appeal it don't work its way to the system and lets says a few months you're now facing s where your going to ask illegal immigrants to come out shadows Ashleigh and present themselves to the government within months of when a new president is going to take office and if it's a Republican president who opposes the President's executive order then, you know, the government might be changing it's mind about whether or not this people can stay.

So who would in the right would present themselves to the government and do this executive action as the President has ordered.

BANFIELD: OK, and now as I understand it, if you can make this quick it's really just all based on this technicality of how they try to implement the executive order not the actual order itself, right?

PEREZ: Right it's just a technicality of how much notice the government provided, correct.

BANFIELD: All right. Well Evan it's all very confusing bu ti think you made it. I always think you can explain it to my fourth grader, you are winning with me. Thank you, sir I appreciate it. I know you have work cut out for you today it's a tricky -- it's a sticky wicket, so to speak. Thanks Evan.

PEREZ: Sure.

BANFIELD: He's so smart. Hey, thanks everyone for watching. It's been nice to have you with us. My colleague Wolf Blitzer if going to taking over the reigns in just a few short moment. I invite you to stick around. See you tomorrow.