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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

More Details on California Train Derailment; Closing Arguments in American Sniper Murder Trial; Make or Break Testimony Expected in Hernandez Trial

Aired February 24, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: If he really believed his co-workers were cannibals and the men he killed were hybrid pig people, would that actually make him insane? That is a much tougher question than you might think as you're about to hear in the closing arguments of the American sniper trial.

Make-or-break testimony today in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial, all about guns and cash and contradictions. And if you really want to know what goes on in a star athlete's home, you might think about asking the maids. It's what they did in court.

Also breaking this hour, passenger train, the cars go tumbling off the tracks after a Metro Link smashes into a truck and there is what was left behind.

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

I want to begin this hour in that southern California city you just saw in those pictures, Oxnard, in west -- just west of Los Angeles. It's where a Metro Link commuter train flew off the tracks after it hit a produce truck that was just sitting there on the tracks at a crossing. Take a look at what happened afterwards. The aftermath, cars are just scattered and on their sides.

The people who were inside those cars, as you can imagine, they were hurt and some of them hurt very badly. Two dozen at least are being treated in hospitals at this hour. The truck driver, not hurt because that driver was not in the vehicle when it was smashed. The driver is in custody, though, not under arrest at this time, though.

CNN's Kyung Lah is making her way to the scene. She joins me now by phone. And Rene Marsh is on the investigation. She's in Washington.

Kyung, first to you, the very latest on how this happened, why it happened and what the story is with this driver who took off.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the story of the driver is really what investigators are zeroing in on, Ashleigh. It's about three hours since this first happened. So they're still trying to piece together exactly what the entire steps were.

What we do know is that this is your typical morning train. It happened about 6:00 a.m. local time. The train had made two stops picking up people heading towards the city of Los Angeles. This is a train that ends in Los Angeles County. Fifty-one people aboard those trains.

And then there was a vehicle that suddenly was stopped in the middle of the train tracks. From what we are hearing from officials on the ground, it is that the conductor did see that truck. We're a little unclear if it's a tractor-trailer truck or a service vehicle. But the conductor saw the truck, hit the emergency brake, people aboard were bracing for the impact. And then they collided.

It's a little unclear also exactly how fast that train was moving. Speeds in this area are about 79 miles per hour. It is common to have these type of service vehicles throughout this agricultural area. The people aboard, 28 transported to hospitals. And the injuries are neck and back injuries, significant head trauma, some broken bones.

But it is the driver of that vehicle that was just disintegrated, he was found a mile away from the collision. Police very interested to find out exactly why he took off, what led up to him just leaving that vehicle on the train tracks to collide with this commuter train.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK, Kyung, don't go anywhere just yet.

Rene, I know that you're tracking the federal response to this. I'm seeing that they've at least got a response team of some sort on the way. What will be the involvement of the feds?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVT. REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that both the NTSB and federal investigators from the Federal Railroad Administration, they're en route to this crash site. The NTSB investigative go team, they will be leaving in about another hour from now. They're set to arrive there on the scene at around 6:00 p.m. local time there in California. The other federal investigators, we just got word, some are already on the scene, additional ones on their way as well.

They're going to be looking at multiple things. They're going to be looking at the train. They're going to look at the tracks. They're going to want to speak to the driver of that truck. They'll also want to speak to the engineer of the train. So lots of interviews will be done and they'll be trying to get a full picture here.

But you can look at these pictures and we now know it is clear that the scene is stabilized. So the next phase is trying to investigate what caused this terrible derailment.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Kyung Lah and Rene Marsh, thank you for that.

If you could stand by for a moment, I want to bring in Mary Schiavo, who is an aviation analyst, also, and maybe more importantly for these purposes, the former inspector general at the U.S. Transportation Department. Mary, thanks so much for being with us on such short notice.

You know, when you look at those pictures and you see the cars on their sides just scattered amid the tracks, I was shocked to hear there were no fatalities, at least certainly not yet. I know there are some critically injured people. But when you look at the pictures, do you see something I'm not seeing?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, yes, and there's something that you really can't see from the pictures that's going to make this train crash extremely important to Federal Rail Administration in Washington and to train safety everywhere because about a year ago Metro Link was -- took the step forward and was fitted with something called positive train control which uses GPS and it's state-of-the-art and that's what we want everyone all over to have this positive train control by December 2015. Most railroads won't make it. But they're supposed to use GPS and technology on the tracks to alert them if something's on the rails. And also this train and this railroad invested in collision energy management, meaning that when they repaired the train cars or made additions to the train cars to make them more crash-worthy so more people could survive. So even though those train cars are lying on their sides, and it looks like a horrific crash, and we certainly hope everyone recovers, the government and rails everywhere will be interested in learning if these improvements spelled the difference between life or death.

BANFIELD: So the positive -- I get it. I mean I get that they made these positive train control moves. But at the same time, a spokesperson for Metro Link -- I'm just going to use their words. It just didn't make sense to me really. It said something along the lines of, "this crash could not be avoided from a rail standpoint." I'm not sure I understand the significance of that statement.

SCHIAVO: Well, I think probably what they were getting at is that they did have positive control, positive rail control on this train and they did have any kind of information to the train and the train is supposed to then, with this positive train control, supposed to slow automatically. But they're going to be looking at whether this train had it, whether it was effective, whether it was working, or if the vehicle went on the tracks just too abruptly or too close to the approach of the train really to slow it or to stop it. And, of course, the speed of the train will be an issue, too. Although 79 miles an hour on this stretch might possibly and probably is legal. There are some places in the United States where you can go certainly, you know, well above 80 and some places even above that.

BANFIELD: All right, Mary Schiavo, thank you. I just want to make sure our viewers are aware that this is a developing story. So things are changing. But Kyung Lah was reporting 51 people were on board those train cars, 28 were transported to the hospital. At one point we heard four might be critically injured, then another report that two were critically injured. But, look, this is just in its infancy as we try to assess how much damage, you know, was actually a part of this crash and what effect that had on the people who were riding. Again, at 6:00 in the morning, it had made two stops and it had picked up, you know, a number of people. So we're going to keep watching that and give you updates throughout the day here on CNN. Make sure you stay tuned.

Then, of course, there's this other story that's been developing and it's really coming to a head now. Did he really believe that pigs were taking over the world or was he faking that story to try to set up some kind of an insanity defense in his murder trial? It's a huge question, especially in the wake of the movie "American Sniper" because the injury and the real story in the courtroom is getting ready for two big performances, you might say huge, the performances of that man's life. His lawyer's about to close the case and the prosecutors are about to close the case. And we're on the case, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Chris Kyle, boy, what a famous name. And despite some really bad weather where this trial is underway right now in Texas, that American sniper trial did get back into the courtroom this morning. It was postponed yesterday because of all that snow and ice and the treacherous driving conditions. But, not today. The prosecution is expected to actually wrap its rebuttal case up today and the closing arguments might even begin soon after that.

After eight days of testimony, yes, only eight, in a capital murder trial, there are questions that are still lingering about why Eddie Ray Routh killed former Navy SEAL sniper Chris Kyle and his close friend Chad Littlefield. Routh has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. And, yes, you have heard about that defense before.

I want to bring in CNN's Martin Savidge, who is at the courthouse in Stephenville, Texas, and CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Marty, if I can begin with you. We've had some serious delays in this trial, but tell me what's happening now that they're back in that courtroom.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it looked like on Friday we were sort of swiftly tying things up and maybe heading to some kind of conclusion. Then the weather derailed that and now it appears that it may not come as fast as we thought.

What's been going on this morning? We have now finally the defense, the prosecution and the judge all in the courtroom. But for a long time this morning, the jury was not because they were querying a potential witness for the prosecution. So while they figure out if that witness could testify, the jury was left out. We've just been told this witness has been cleared to testify. So the jury's just been brought back in.

About this witness. A pretty interesting person. A crime scene investigator. Actually, a crime scene investigator instructor who specializes in shooting incident reconstruction. That gives you a heads-up that this is a person who is likely to break down very clearly and technically how this shooting took place. That's something we have not heard so far in all the testimony. In other words, how did two men, who we know both had 9-millimeter loaded weapons on their body, get shot so fast, knocked down so quickly, neither man able to respond to the person who was shooting, that's Eddie Routh. How did it happen? We might get that information now coming in testimony for the prosecution. It should be very interesting.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So just remind me like procedurally, we're done with any kind of rebuttal witnesses from the defense side now, is that it?

SAVIDGE: Not necessarily so. It's anticipated that what we've had since Friday is a series of prosecution rebuttals. I don't think that the defense is going to feel comfortable letting the jury end it there. So maybe there could be some defense rebuttal. Then after that, we could get the closing arguments, either today or tomorrow. And then, of course, it goes to the jury.

BANFIELD: All right, Martin Savidge, you've been doing a great job and it's been freezing cold out there, I know, even in Texas. Thank you for that.

Jeffrey Toobin, if you could just step in for a second, I want to ask you a little bit about the kinds of witnesses you should be bringing if you're a defense attorney and you're trying to tell 12 people that this man is legally insane by the law, the definition is so hard to make that convincing argument. But before I do that, what do you have to do in closing arguments -- if you've only had an eight-day case, what do you have to do on both sides to make your case and seal it and make those jurors know what their job is?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this case is actually fairly simple for the jury. It's not an easy case, but the issue before the jury is very simple, which is, was Routh legally insane at the time he shot these two people? He's not -- this is not a who done it. There is no real dispute about the facts of what happened. But it is very difficult for jurors always to determine what's inside someone's head. The prosecution has to say, look, this is a fairly straightforward matter. He knew he was killing someone. He knew the difference between right and wrong. And he knew that it was wrong to shoot these two folks. The defense has to ask the question -- and it's a very hard question to answer, why did Routh shoot them? I don't know what the answer is to that.

BANFIELD: So then -- so --

TOOBIN: And that will be, I think, his best argument.

BANFIELD: And this -- this is the key because these are 12 average people. And I always say mechanics and hairdressers and gas station attendants and maybe a journalist and a lawyer. You know, I mean, these are people that maybe just don't know the schooling of law and they sure as heck aren't inside that man's head. So it is the defense attorney's job to tell them through experts who know about people's heads why he's insane. And yet we only had one guy, we had one doctor on that stand. One other one was disqualified because apparently he wasn't licensed to practice in Texas. And to me that says, where's the rest of them?

TOOBIN: Well that -- you -- it would certainly -- probably. I mean I, you know, I'm not in the courtroom. It would probably be better for the defense to have more experts saying, based on my examination, Routh is insane.

BANFIELD: I concur. Yes.

TOOBIN: However, the judgment of not knowing the difference between right and wrong, that's not necessarily a sophisticated psychological judgment. That is a judgment that is entrusted to these ordinary folks. They have seen the evidence. They have seen at least some evidence that Routh was truly delusional around this time. He does seem to have weaved in and out between sanity and a much less sane condition. So I don't think the expert witnesses are --

BANFIELD: So would you close? If you were his defense attorney, just quickly one last question, would you close by suggesting to this jury, it sure looked like he wasn't insane after the crime, ladies and gentlemen, but he was absolutely in a fit of insanity at the moment he shot those two men?

TOOBIN: That's the argument. I mean jurors are very skeptical of insanity defenses.

BANFIELD: Yes.

TOOBIN: They usually don't work. But that's the argument he has to make.

BANFIELD: Jeffrey Toobin, we'll have to watch. And it should be coming up today. It will be really good to watch these closings.

TOOBIN: Very interesting.

BANFIELD: Thank you.

We have another case that we're following as well, and this testimony is getting a little messy because maids have taken the stand. The maids usually know a lot about your house and your behavior because they're there in the background, aren't they? So this lovely lady had some telling. And she told a lot. And you're about to find out why it could be very damaging for the football player whose home she cleaned for weeks and weeks, including after the victim was killed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Have you ever wondered what goes on inside somebody's house? Just ask the maids there working in the background. And the women who cleaned Aaron Hernandez's home have been testifying for a couple of days now about what they saw, what they found and what they put back where they found it inside his home. Including this, Hernandez's fiance carrying a black trash bag the day after Odin Lloyd was murdered and then putting that trash bag in the trunk of her sister's car. Prosecutors are alleging that Shayanna Jenkins was removing evidence from that home, potentially really important evidence, like a murder weapon.

Susan Candiotti is outside the courthouse in Fall River, Massachusetts and HLN legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson is here with me in New York. First to you, Susan, update me as to what else these maids have been

telling the court about what they saw and what they thought about what they saw.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you, one of the latest things they talked about is what you just mentioned. We've heard about the existence of this videotape but now we're seeing it for the very first time. And prosecutors used one of the maids who cleans the house to talk about it. On this videotape, you see Shayanna Jenkins, that Hernandez's fiance, walking out of the house carrying a heavy -- what appears to be a heavy black trash bag. And when she gets to the end of the sidewalk, she -- driveway, actually, before you get to the garage, she puts it down. And you see her put some what appear to be clothes on the very top of it. And then she puts the bag into the trunk of her car and you see the maid, who's driving a white van -- and she had to move her car to get out of the way so that Shayanna could put that bag into the trunk of the car she was borrowing from her sister. Then she leaves the house. And when she comes back, the maid is asked to describe how Shayanna Jenkins was acting. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw her speaking on (INAUDIBLE). I saw her looking out the window. I saw -- she was crying. She was nervous and she was walking back and forth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Now, remember, before a grand jury, we have learned from prosecutors that Shayanna Jenkins said that she took that bag and drove it to a dumpster and got rid of it, but she told them she doesn't remember where that dumpster was. Again, prosecutors suspect that the murder weapon was in there because, they say, Aaron Hernandez sent her a coded message giving her instructions about that. But the jury has not heard that part yet, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, yet and maybe never, right?

CANDIOTTI: Well, that's right. You remember, Shayanna Jenkins has received immunity by prosecutors. So when she takes the stand, we are, of course, waiting to see what she will say. Is she going to say, I didn't know what was in that bag, or is she going to say something else? That's what we're waiting to find out.

BANFIELD: All right, Susan, make sure you keep us posted as to what else they come up with. I love it, all of a sudden, when the people in the background are brought into the forefront and they're put up on the stand to talk. Susan is covering the trial for us there. Joey Jackson doing the analysis for me here.

So when we saw that clip of the maid, she wasn't speaking because a translator was actually giving us her testimony in English.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, that's right.

BANFIELD: But, you know, that really, to me, could have cut both ways. You're seeing a woman crying and nervous on the phone a day after her fiance's friend is murdered and her sister's boyfriend is murdered. Isn't it plausible she could be upset?

JACKSON: It's a great point, Ashleigh, and that's certainly the argument that the defense is going to make. But, remember, you can't view a trial in isolation. And that jury will be reminded that every piece of the puzzle matters. So let's unpack the puzzle briefly.

You're carrying out a trash bag, but yet you have a maid. So if it's garbage, does not the maid deal with the garbage? So you're going to make the argument, the defense will, that it's just garbage in the bag, right? But you have maids that deal with that. So the issue then becomes, does it make sense? So if it's not garbage, then what else might it be? And that comes on the heels of what you showed the -- we show that little text message there, the coded text message, go back and pick something up, from Hernandez to his fiance, which, right there again, you see it, go back in the back of the screen (ph) and he's communicating with her, the prosecution saying, Ashleigh, in code, in order to get her, that is his fiance, to get that bag and get it out of the house. And so the implication is, we know what's in that bag, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. And in that bag was the murder weapon. And we don't have a murder weapon. Don't hold that against us. Hold it against him because he got his fiance to get rid of it.

BANFIELD: Yes. By the way --

JACKSON: So that's going to be the implication.

BANFIELD: When you're a big football star and you live in a big fancy house with big fancy maids and all the rest, don't you also have garbage pick-up?

JACKSON: You sort of do. Yes, you do. And certainly the jury will be reminded of that. And to your very good point, Ashleigh, which the defense will spin, well, wait a minute, someone's dead here. When she comes back from removing that trash, she's upset. Yes, but you can spin it the other way, that she knows something is amiss and she knows that Aaron Hernandez is involved in that. And, remember, this is one piece of many pieces of the puzzle. Circumstantial evidence, it's becoming a mountain. It's up to the defense to poke holes.

BANFIELD: OK, Susan Candiotti, can you add to that?

CANDIOTTI: Well, the important thing also to remember about when this videotape was made, this is the day after Odin Lloyd's murder. Just one day after. That's when this is removed from the house. And the other thing, Ashleigh, is what the other maids have testified to in the last two days. And that is, they testified about seeing a gun in a basement bedroom that was hidden underneath a mattress where Ernest Wallace had been staying. He is also charged with Odin Lloyd's murder. And upstairs in a master bedroom, when they were cleaning that up, a maid also testified, two of them, that they saw a silver handgun fall out of one of his pants pockets when they were straightening up the room.

What does this have to do with anything? They're not believed to be the murder weapons. But, according to prosecutors, they are trying to show that Aaron Hernandez had access to guns, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yes, all right, Susan, thank you. I think my favorite part of yesterday's maid testimony was that the maid said, I got paid by check that day, the same day the fiance asks for her sister's car to go get cash to pay the maids. Oops! Yes, that's -- that's never good.

JACKSON: Hmm, yes.

BANFIELD: All right, Joey, thank you.

JACKSON: More to come.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it. Is there ever. Like a verdict. And Susan Candiotti keeping on the job for us as well.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: So the details surrounding the shooting deaths of a Las Vegas mother of four, they're getting very disturbing. And we've got a look that is a little less like road rage perhaps with each passing day. Now the suspect's lawyer says this was self-defense. Confused? You're not the only one. We're going to sort this out, next.

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