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Three New Yorkers Accused of Attempting to Aid ISIS

Aired February 25, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. We roll on to the 3:00 hour.

Breaking news: the battle of ISIS reaching U.S. soil. We're awaiting a press conference with New York City Police Commissioner Bill Bratton, because three New Yorkers taken into custody, accused of trying to join the vicious terror group ISIS. And according to the court documents released just a short time ago, one of these suspects said the plan was to travel today, to hijack a plane and then deliver it to ISIS.

One suspect even offered to kill President Obama if ISIS ordered him to do so. And yet another suspect was arrested just this morning at New York's JFK Airport trying to board a flight to Turkey. And the court documents show that he considered getting a machine gun and shooting FBI agents and police officers if his plan to join ISIS in Syria was thwarted.

This all comes just hours after the FBI chief revealed his agency is investigating possible homegrown violent extremists in all 50 states.

Lots to discuss.

Joining me now, justice correspondent Evan Perez and former CIA counterterrorism analyst Buck Sexton.

Evan, what are you hearing from the FBI now?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, any time now, any moment now, we expect that two of these suspects will be making their appearance here in court in Brooklyn.

And they will be read the charges. This investigation is far from over. The FBI started looking at these guys last year when they noticed at least one of them making threats, what appeared to be threats online in an Uzbek-language Web site where people discuss ISIS ideology and propaganda.

And that's when the FBI decided to investigate further. They introduced him to an undercover informant who was able to record some conversations with some of that -- with the suspects. That's one of the scary things here is if this guy hadn't gone online and said something, frankly, really stupid, which is his desire perhaps of carrying out an attack to assassinate President Obama, this probably would not have gotten any notice. And when these guys go online and talk like this is when they

typically get the attention of the FBI. Sometimes, without that, they have no idea.

CABRERA: And talk is cheap, you could say.

PEREZ: Right.

CABRERA: But it's when they're actually showing they have a plan in mind of how they're going to carry out their threats that the FBI or intelligence officials can move in, right, Buck?

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

That is what would trigger the material support charge here, the material support to terrorism, which is what they're about to be charged with. This is a pretty textbook operation for the FBI. It is for the NYPD Intelligence Division, my former unit. This is how these operations tend to go down.

You have a long-term surveillance. It seemed like there was some more operational activity that was being planned in the last few weeks. That's why they probably decided to move now. To Evan's point, though, it's the ones who are sloppy and the ones who are even occasionally clownish who tend to caught this way, because they're so open about their plans, they're discussing, they're talking to informants about it. Those who have good op sec, or operational security, are the ones who actually make it to ISIS.

And, as we know, that's happened with thousands and thousands of foreign fighters from around the world, including from here in the homeland.

CABRERA: Was it just an idea to kill President Obama or was there specific planning in mind? What was this person going to do.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: Right. Ana, it doesn't look like they had -- they went very far with it. This is something that he was -- that one of them was ruminating about online.

And, thank goodness, that's as far as it got. And certainly that's what the FBI was very concerned about. And they were very concerned. And that's what the FBI director was talking to this morning.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: He was speaking to a group of attorneys general from around the country, because the FBI needs all of these law enforcement people back in the states to be their eyes and ears.

And they sent out an intelligence bulletin just in the last hour or so because of this case. And I will read you just a short little bit of what they told law enforcement officials around the country, which is that these individuals highlight the continued interest of U.S.-based violent extremists to support designated terrorist organizations, ISIL in this case, urges vigilance and cooperation with local businesses and law enforcement partners, because, frankly, as we said, you know, we have discussed a lot about the flow of fighters from European countries, which is a much bigger number.

This is a reminder that this is as much a problem here in this country as well.

CABRERA: And we have 60 countries in the coalition fighting ISIS right now in their territory, Syria and Iraq. But yet it seems like ISIS tentacles continue to spread, Buck. We know there were four people arrested just overnight in Spain yesterday.

Now we have the arrests here in New York. How is ISIS still having such a stronghold?

SEXTON: Well, ISIS is approaching the expansion of its caliphate in a few different ways.

There's the fight in Iraq and Syria, which is really a ground war, ground campaign. And there have been some halts to that, although they also continue to expand in some areas. Depends on where you're putting the front line in Syria and Iraq. Then there's the idea of these affiliates popping up in places like the Sinai and Egypt and also Libya.

And this is essentially ISIS creating entities that are ISIS-like in other countries. So, that gets outside the cordon of U.S. forces and U.S. airstrikes. And then the third level beyond that would be the sort of self-radicalized jihadists from around the world, people from the U.S., people from everywhere else who are either going to try to join in one of those other fights or engage in a jihad here at home.

These are the different levels and you can't defeat them all at the same time with the current policy and structure.

CABRERA: What does ISIS have that other terrorist groups in the past haven't had for it to stretch so for, so wide, and encompass so many?

SEXTON: They have control of territory. They have the largest jihadist army that we have seen in certainly decades. And they also have a social media campaign, as has been pointed out many times, that is more slick and more sort of directly targeted at their audience and having more efficacy than previous efforts like this.

When you add all those things together, control of territory, a large fighting force, and also an ability to spread the message effectively, that's why they're so dangerous.

CABRERA: Are they outsmarting the rest of the...

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: They have really developed a brand, is really what they are. Right? They have been able to not only control territory, but they're encouraging young people that, look, this is what -- the cool things that we're doing.

They produce these very slick videos that surface online. And that's the way they're reaching people. They're going beyond around us, and they're going directly to those young people with this very slick brand that is intended to portray some kind of adventure and encouraging people to come and join them. And that's what is being very successful.

CABRERA: I talked to the parent of one of the ISIS recruits, Shannon Conley, 19-year-old woman who just in fact was sentenced in Colorado for pleading guilty for conspiracy to provide material support to ISIS. And her mom said she didn't know what she was getting herself into.

Now the world knows what ISIS is all about. And yet ISIS continues to bring more people into their world, Buck.

SEXTON: Well, because of the way they do their messaging, they tend to exploit the disaffected. They tend to exploit people who may be more subject to the kinds of calls that they're making.

Essentially, we will give you purpose in life. We will give you a righteous cause. We will give you something that will give you adventure, as was just stated, and that does have some resonance. But they also go deep into theology and to the creation of this caliphate which they take very seriously.

They're breaking it down into provinces. They're using Ottoman terminology for the different ISIS provinces. They're trying to recreate something historically that does seem to capture the imaginations of people who are already tending to this kind of ideology and also on top of that have personal reasons for why they'd be able to be essentially brainwashed.

CABRERA: It's fascinating.

Evan Perez, Buck Sexton, thank you both for being here. We will talk to you after the NYPD news conference as we continue to monitor that.

The news out of New York comes on the heels of reports that three young women from the U.K. have fled to Syria, apparently to join ISIS. In fact, they are believed to be inside Syria now.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has been tracking the global reach of this terror group.

And, Nic, these arrests in the U.S. also come just a day after those four people we mentioned were arrested in Spain trying to recruit ISIS fighters, allegedly. They were actually doing that recruitment from Spain. They weren't even in Syria or Iraq, which we have seen most of the time they're targeting recruits in Latin America, not just Europe, the U.S. or Canada. ISIS tentacles, again, they seem to be spreading.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The message has gone viral. They're making themselves attractive. They're making themselves

attractive because they make what they're doing look exciting. They have got people, if you take the example of these three young girls who went from Britain in the past week, they have got people who left Britain, who get there to Syria, who then send a message and explain how you can do it, what you need to bring, what you should be prepared for, what sort of clothing, even sort of how to fool border guards and these sorts of things.

There is a lot of education coming from ISIS as well to educate people how to do it. They need those people joining the fight. Why do they need them? Because on the ground, at least in Iraq and Syria, they're having a tough fight. They're getting hit by the coalition. They're fighting the Iraqi Kurds. They will be facing off it would seem just today in the west of Iraq against an improving Iraqi force around the town of al-Baghdadi, for example.

So, they really need to funnel the people in. And so that's a machine for them. They know they have got to keep this recruitment going. They have got to keep it attractive. They have got to make the message, as we have talked about here, slick.

But they have also got to make that message one that these kids and whoever it is can grasp on to. And social media is just the absolute best tool for them. And they're ahead of us in many ways in using it.

CABRERA: We understand that these three British teenagers apparently were in contact with a Scottish woman who is believed to be in Syria known to have her ISIS ties, and that they exchanged some messages and communication over social media.

So, U.K. has been criticized for not waving a big red flag with their communications. Is the U.K. making any adjustments in terms much how they track online communications?

ROBERTSON: That field is improving. It's expanding.

They're taking the fight, if you will, to ISIS, using their methodology and against them. But the problem for the British intelligence authorities, as it is all the way across Europe, is, they are absolutely stretched.

You know, if you have an individual you want to have a 24-hour surveillance on, it can take as many as 20 people to keep that surveillance on them. If you have got thousands of people and it's more than that who are using social media who are just sort of passive supporters, you're trying to sift through all of that and focus on the people you need to target on.

The intelligence services here in Britain have been recruiting more and more people to take on that precise threat. But it's an evolving science. And they still don't have enough people to do it. And you talk to the families of some of these kids who have gone, they're absolutely distraught. They go to any length to try to stop their kids going. We have heard about taking passports. We have heard about trying to talk their kids down. But, oftentimes, we're seeing it's beyond their control. The kids get together like these three girls, find a way to do it.

CABRERA: All right, Nic Robertson, thank you for that insight.

Any moment now, NYPD expected to give that press conference with more on the three New York men arrested here in the U.S., one allegedly on the way to join ISIS. The NYPD commissioner, Bill Bratton, should be speaking soon, we keep on hearing. It supposed to happen at 3:00, which is why we keep on talking about it. We will bring it live as soon as it happens.

We're back in a moment.

Also, though, a guilty verdict in the American sniper murder trial. That's another big story we're following. We're just now getting our first look at some of the powerful evidence that was used in court. The judge finally lifted the squash or the kibosh he had put on it during the trial itself. New questions now about how the VA treated this suspect, Eddie Ray Routh.

Plus, more trouble for Bill O'Reilly. Another story from his time as a reporter is now being questioned -- how O'Reilly is responding to this coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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WILLIAM BRATTON, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Press release which I'm sure you have all seen, and has the details of the case, that we're prepared to answer any questions you might have within the confines of what we can talk about relative to what is an ongoing investigation.

Newly appointed FBI Assistant Director in Charge here in New York, New York Division, Diego Rodriguez, is here, as well as Special Agent in Charge of the Counterterrorism Division of the New York field office Bill Sweeney.

The NYPD counterterrorism bureau chief that you're familiar with, Chief Jim Waters, John Miller, who is the deputy commissioner for counterterrorism intelligence, and also Deputy Chief Joseph Herbert, who is our senior officer at the Joint Terrorism Task Force.

As you're aware, that this morning that, in a joint operation, that arrests were made of three individuals for actions directed against the United States and you are seeing that press release and we will be prepared to respond to questions you might have.

But, as I referenced, as it's an ongoing investigation, that there are certain areas that we cannot touch upon. But myself and the head of the FBI office and others here will be prepared to answer your questions. So, with that...

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) acts of terrorism in the New York area (OFF- MIKE)

BRATTON: Well, I think what is alleged in the filing is that the efforts were -- two of the individuals were seeking to fly to Syria. One was arrested at the International Airport, JFK International Airport, as he was getting ready to board that flight. A second individual had a later flight scheduled. He was arrested at home here in Brooklyn.

A third individual who we believe helped to organize and finance the trip with the other two individuals was arrested in Jacksonville, Florida, by FBI agents and is being detained in Jacksonville.

So the initial actions were effectively to go to Syria and attempt to join ISIL in Syria.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) In the filing released today, talk about how, if they couldn't do that, they would do things here.

BRATTON: That's correct.

QUESTION: How serious a threat were they?

BRATTON: Well, we treat that very seriously, as alleged in the filing, the idea that it was made quite plain based on their own statements that if they were not able to go, that they would seek to acquire weapons here, handguns, machine gun, and seek to attack very specifically police officers, and so that the -- that those aspirations were made quite clear by their own statements.

QUESTION: Commissioner (OFF-MIKE) two of them were (OFF-MIKE)

BRATTON: I can't speak to that.

Anybody here know the specific time?

OK. I can't give that you at this particular point in time.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

BRATTON: That's correct.

JOHN MILLER, NYPD DEPUTY COMMISSIONER: Legal permanent residents in New York, and a third individual in Florida was a -- was here legally and then overstayed.

QUESTION: OK. So the person that was in Florida is being indicted in Florida. (OFF-MIKE) in the indictment that he's (OFF-MIKE)

BRATTON: What she's asking is the residences, permanent residents here, where is where he's occasionally based at.

DIEGO RODRIGUEZ, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: All three of them resided in Brooklyn, yes.

And two of them were Uzbeki citizens and the other one was a Kazakstan citizen. Two of them were legal resident aliens here, permanent residents.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

RODRIGUEZ: Just the way it worked out investigatively. We just were concentrating on the individual that was leaving New York City on his way out to Syria.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

BRATTON: Well, as we previously stated, I think yesterday, made some comments that, with all that's going on in Washington at the moment, the debate about the withholding of funding for Homeland Security, this is not the time to engage in activities that would threaten our counterterrorism capabilities, such as have been exhibited in the movement on this case, and effectively to hold our counterterrorism agencies hostage to political machinations in D.C.

I think this case reinforces that contention on our part. This is not the time to be engaging in political rhetoric or political grandstanding.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

BRATTON: Oh, certainly, that we have talked about this over an extensive period of time. I have referenced that when John Miller and I came in, in January of 2014 and took on our new positions, that the threat at that time was principally that of al Qaeda and al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula that had been charged with the mission of carrying out attacks against the United States.

But quickly, within a very short period of time after our appointment, the emergence of ISIS, or ISIL, as it's known, became very quickly apparent, as we have clearly seen with the events in Syria, that they were now a new significant addition to the terrorism threat, and that their capabilities, while this past year have been limited primarily to the Mideast, that their ability through their social media propaganda skills to inspire, inspire those, as these individuals were inspired to travel to Syria to fight, but for those who cannot travel, don't have the resources, they encouraged in their several most recent outreach efforts in December, I think, John.

MILLER: September and December.

BRATTON: September and December, encouraging attacks wherever you live, whether it's here in the United States, Europe. If you can't get a gun, if you can't make a bomb, get a knife.

And we saw a sample of that, I think, with the attack on our four police officers. That individual, when we did the backtracking on his computer activity, among the 150-some-odd different sites that he was visiting were some of those that were controlled by ISIS or ISIL. So, this is real. This is the concern about the lone wolf inspired to

act without ever going to the Mideast or the concern of once they get to the Mideast acquire fighting skills, capabilities and then attempting to return to the country.

QUESTION: Does this case mark the first time that you know of that you have seen ISIS or ISIL sympathizers from New York City trying to make their way overseas and into Syria?

BRATTON: This is an ongoing investigation that -- and is among a number of investigations that we're engaged in. So I won't -- so this is the first public example of that. That would be correct.

QUESTION: Commissioner (OFF-MIKE) the complaint specifies a confidential informant being one of the suspects in a mosque. (OFF- MIKE) where that mosque was (OFF-MIKE)

RODRIGUEZ: For the purposes of this investigation, the mosques were irrelevant. And we're not going to talk about where they worshipped specifically. If it's not in the complaint, we're not going to discuss it.

But, yes, it was not relevant to this investigation, where they worshipped.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, at this point, I'm not going to discuss sources and methods. But, as you know, sources and methods are you have important to us in our investigative techniques. We will use everything under our authorities to go ahead. And the Joint Terrorism Task Force does that on a regular basis.

QUESTION: The federal agents who I guess (OFF-MIKE) some time last year, did they come as federal agents? Were they coming to just kind of investigate in general? There was I think an example -- I can't remember the case -- where federal agents came to say sort of like don't do this, stop, you're better than this. Was that what was happening here? Or was it just...

RODRIGUEZ: I'm not following exactly what specific example you're referring to.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MILLER: To answer the question, they came as federal agents, as members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force. They identified them as such. They interviewed both gentlemen and, as is reflected in the complaints, both gentlemen made statements at the time. So it was what it was.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Why were they not arrested? Were they followed?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. This is just normal protocol for us. Remember , we're always trying to identify these folks, their hierarchy, their network. As the commissioner mentioned, these folks are very, very savvy with

social media. And that's one of the things that, through our authorities, we are one of the few domestic law enforcement agencies that have that, where we can use intel and then seamlessly walk and transfer over, and act operationally very quickly in take event that we see something imminent happening.

So, we make sure we do that. And that's why we let this play out as much as we could.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John.

MILLER: We can't get into that at this stage because it is actually not contained in the complaint and because charges have been filed. We're limited to what's contained in the complaint.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. To answer your first question, no. And second question, we're not targeting anybody specifically, looking at anybody. We look at everything across the board and where it kind of comes into that web, we start focusing based on based on all the facts and circumstances we that have. We kind of let the evidence take us wherever it goes.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

RODRIGUEZ: I think it's reflected in the complaint exactly, the steps which were taken and some of the things that were said on their postings.

And so, based on that, they were seeking to be part of ISIL, but, obviously, potentially radicalized based on, again, the manipulation of ISIL with social media.

BRATTON: One additional question and we will be done.

QUESTION: Yes. With British authorities looking for teenagers who left Britain to go fight as well overseas, can you tell -- give context as to where this case fits nationally and internationally with the continuing struggle to stop Westerners from leaving to...

(ENDED IN PROGRESS)

CABRERA: We're going to pull out of this.